Boy do you watch to much CNN or what. I don't smoke pot but the paper companies in the late 1800s saw hemp as a threat, so Tindale or Hammermill outlawed it. I also have an under cover narc friend one is narc, the other DEA, drugs are made illegal because you cannot patient a plant, opium, where all the morphine to codeine started, so since you can't patient it, outlaw it. Who wins? The pharmacutical companies.
Read about prohibition. How it created the mob. Go back further and you'll see tin cans that read for a busy mom and baby, opium candy to help you relax and thatbwas less than 100 years ago.
Go to college. Learn. Read. Absorb. Let your mind be open for a change. I like to use food as an anlogy. What does it feel like to be hungry? You can't explain it right. But you eat and feel satisfied. Same with smokers. I used to be one. But again. There are way to many rules in this country. O remember visiting holland. It was beautiful and we went up this windmill and saw a skull and cross bones. That's it. Meaning you can go around the rope but you could also die. In the US, that display would be off limits, protected by 5 feet of glass and unresponsible parents allow laws to be changed due to their bad patenting and we all pay. You'll see. Someday it will affect you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is nonsense.
In the first place just because it isn't illegal now in your country, doesn't mean it won't be soon, or isn't be already in more civilised places. In the second place, your argument about why a smoker smokes is based on the idea of free will when in fact smoking is a simple drug addiction. It has nothing to do with making rational choices or free will.
Smokers are drug addicts. That's just a simple fact. They have no more control over smoking than a crackhead does over doing crack or a wino has over drinking.
Third, all your analogies are junk in that laying around in the sun, eating red meat etc., are not only a choice, they are choices that don't affect anyone else.
Smoke is poison (another fact). Second hand smoke has been proven many times over to be just as bad as firsthand smoke, and third hand smoke is implicated in the latest research as well. No one has the right to poison those around them. They never did. We just weren't sufficiently aware of how dangerous smoking was before.
Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs. Even if there were, a person's human rights end where another's begin. A person may have the right to shoot a gun, but they don't have the right to shoot it at someone else. Even if a smoker had some kind of "right" to smoke, they don't have the right to do it around anyone else.
Smoking will be illegal in public in your lifetime probably. Get used to it.
First of all, if someone wants to smoke cigarettes, that's their choice. I don't, and I really don't care for it, but I don't aim to run anyone's life for them. I have enough of a time keeping myself out of trouble. I don't mind working on a computer that has been smoked around...warranties are something else.
I don't know how much harm the compounds left behind in a computer would really cause to someone working on it. It seems feasible that any person could have a problem, even if it was no more serious than just being "grossed out". I know I've worked on more computers than I can count that were owned by smokers. The worst one came from a guy whose apartment walls should have been bright white but were actually dull yellow. I could not see any identifying marks on any component part in the system. I also couldn't make out any of the fan paddles.
No matter how much you might like to smoke, you might stop when you looked inside anything in your home that has a fan going inside it.
I really didn't want to touch it. I had no idea what to do about it. So I threw it in the dishwasher after making some preparations. (Bet that got your attention, didn't it.) Chucked it on there with a ton of detergent, the hottest possible water temperature setting and the longest wash cycle I could pick. It was not completely successful as the system smelled of cigarettes afterwards, but it was a 9000% improvement from what it had been. Stuff was the right color again.
More recently, I inherited a Dell Dimension V350 PC that had a lesser form of the same disease, and I decided to show the world one way to fix the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhSDEgkqQ8 . If that sort of thing interests you, please go and watch.
At the same time I fixed a fax machine that faxed entirely in black. Yep, you guessed it. A fine line of cigarette residue covered the optics, making it impossible to read a document.
Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."
As per Apple's standard hardware Warrantee decrees, i.e., "?This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by use with non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake or other external causes?, the presence of a sufficient substance to cause the computer to malfunction, is sufficient to negate the service.
Although having a machine come in for service with such visual evidence to conclude that the primary cause of failure is due to using it in a 'smoking' environment of any degree, proclaiming that "?nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health." may in part not be totally accurate. Certainly, the employees refusal to repair the computer under warranty is perfectly within their rights and Apple's position to protect their employees where it might be deemed a health hazard to any extent is equally valid.
Having been on both sides of the desk, I would be embarrassed to bring in a computer gunk'd up with something that I was responsible for. If they refused to honor the warranty, even after personally cleaning and returning it myself, that would be my problem.
On the other hand, having to stick your face into something somebody else basically crapped in, is not what anybody should be forced to do.
Keep in mind that some non-smokers can enter a locked 'smoking' room and be unaffected at all. Whereas, others become totally repulsed at even the thought of touching the door nob.
If the latter point exists then I don?t see how the first point couldn?t exist. In other words, if you machine is so fooled up and visually coated with nicotine tar inside and out within the 1yr or 3 yr plans then the warranty shouldn?t cover this.
If I use my notebook at the pool and it gets wet or if I spill Coke on it then I don?t expect the warranty to cover this sort of damage. This is not a problem with the machine, but how the machine has been treated.
I whole-heartedly agree. I can't pour wine or soda on my computer and expect the warranty to cover the damage.
I totally understand where Apple is coming from. I work on PC's at work and I have had to work on users notebooks that looked, and smelled like they were using it as an ash tray. Its disgusting! I smell and feel dirty after working on it.
Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.
I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
There is a saying that people living in glass houses should not throw stones.
Currently, there are virtually thousands of US products on recall, e.g., FDA*, Auto?, Consumer products** , which evidence somebody's lack of care for the health of the people they want to sell to.
Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.
I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.
Like you buy your wife a life insurance policy and decide to kill her:
Naturally, you wouldn't expect to collect on the policy if you were found guilty of the crime, but you expect the premiums be returned to you?
I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?
That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.
I can see this going to court.
Sorry. Smoking is not perfectly legal in California. You can't smoke in bars and restaurants. Second hand smoke affects the workers who have to work there. In my fair town of Santa Cruz, you can't smoke on Pacific Avenue nor can you smoke on the city owned beaches. All related to the hazards of second hand smoke. Yes, it has been banned in certain areas.
I would love to see a show of hands of which of the posters in this thread are smokers. That would be quite interesting. I personally am a militant anti-smoker, with no exceptions, even if you smoke within the law, it still bothers me. I hate cigarette smoke. Even the slightest whiff disgusts me. In my opinion smokers should have to live out in the desert somewhere like lepers calling out notice of their affliction whenever normal people come within earshot.
Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.
Smoking in any public place or place of employment is illegal in Ohio - Ohio voters voted in favor of this ban in 2006.
Never thought there would come a day a would decide never to buy a mac again but that day has come. When I paid my MacBook Pro they didn't say they couldn't accept my money because it was a biohazard so I wonder why they would consider my notebook a biohazard.
A big fuck you to Steve Jobs! What's next? People who eat meat can't send in their Macs for repair anymore?
No, it's YOUR attitude that is unbelievable. Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passed to say that they're going to protect their employees' health. They're doing the right thing.
So did you already sell your car and bought a bike to go to work?!
Comments
Read about prohibition. How it created the mob. Go back further and you'll see tin cans that read for a busy mom and baby, opium candy to help you relax and thatbwas less than 100 years ago.
Go to college. Learn. Read. Absorb. Let your mind be open for a change. I like to use food as an anlogy. What does it feel like to be hungry? You can't explain it right. But you eat and feel satisfied. Same with smokers. I used to be one. But again. There are way to many rules in this country. O remember visiting holland. It was beautiful and we went up this windmill and saw a skull and cross bones. That's it. Meaning you can go around the rope but you could also die. In the US, that display would be off limits, protected by 5 feet of glass and unresponsible parents allow laws to be changed due to their bad patenting and we all pay. You'll see. Someday it will affect you.
This is nonsense.
In the first place just because it isn't illegal now in your country, doesn't mean it won't be soon, or isn't be already in more civilised places. In the second place, your argument about why a smoker smokes is based on the idea of free will when in fact smoking is a simple drug addiction. It has nothing to do with making rational choices or free will.
Smokers are drug addicts. That's just a simple fact. They have no more control over smoking than a crackhead does over doing crack or a wino has over drinking.
Third, all your analogies are junk in that laying around in the sun, eating red meat etc., are not only a choice, they are choices that don't affect anyone else.
Smoke is poison (another fact). Second hand smoke has been proven many times over to be just as bad as firsthand smoke, and third hand smoke is implicated in the latest research as well. No one has the right to poison those around them. They never did. We just weren't sufficiently aware of how dangerous smoking was before.
Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs. Even if there were, a person's human rights end where another's begin. A person may have the right to shoot a gun, but they don't have the right to shoot it at someone else. Even if a smoker had some kind of "right" to smoke, they don't have the right to do it around anyone else.
Smoking will be illegal in public in your lifetime probably. Get used to it.
I don't know how much harm the compounds left behind in a computer would really cause to someone working on it. It seems feasible that any person could have a problem, even if it was no more serious than just being "grossed out". I know I've worked on more computers than I can count that were owned by smokers. The worst one came from a guy whose apartment walls should have been bright white but were actually dull yellow. I could not see any identifying marks on any component part in the system. I also couldn't make out any of the fan paddles.
No matter how much you might like to smoke, you might stop when you looked inside anything in your home that has a fan going inside it.
I really didn't want to touch it. I had no idea what to do about it. So I threw it in the dishwasher after making some preparations. (Bet that got your attention, didn't it.) Chucked it on there with a ton of detergent, the hottest possible water temperature setting and the longest wash cycle I could pick. It was not completely successful as the system smelled of cigarettes afterwards, but it was a 9000% improvement from what it had been. Stuff was the right color again.
More recently, I inherited a Dell Dimension V350 PC that had a lesser form of the same disease, and I decided to show the world one way to fix the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhSDEgkqQ8 . If that sort of thing interests you, please go and watch.
At the same time I fixed a fax machine that faxed entirely in black. Yep, you guessed it. A fine line of cigarette residue covered the optics, making it impossible to read a document.
Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."
As per Apple's standard hardware Warrantee decrees, i.e., "?This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by use with non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake or other external causes?, the presence of a sufficient substance to cause the computer to malfunction, is sufficient to negate the service.
Although having a machine come in for service with such visual evidence to conclude that the primary cause of failure is due to using it in a 'smoking' environment of any degree, proclaiming that "?nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health." may in part not be totally accurate. Certainly, the employees refusal to repair the computer under warranty is perfectly within their rights and Apple's position to protect their employees where it might be deemed a health hazard to any extent is equally valid.
Having been on both sides of the desk, I would be embarrassed to bring in a computer gunk'd up with something that I was responsible for. If they refused to honor the warranty, even after personally cleaning and returning it myself, that would be my problem.
On the other hand, having to stick your face into something somebody else basically crapped in, is not what anybody should be forced to do.
Keep in mind that some non-smokers can enter a locked 'smoking' room and be unaffected at all. Whereas, others become totally repulsed at even the thought of touching the door nob.
I guess smoking residue trumps poor working conditions. Interesting indeed.
It's actually *part* pf poor working conditions.
If the latter point exists then I don?t see how the first point couldn?t exist. In other words, if you machine is so fooled up and visually coated with nicotine tar inside and out within the 1yr or 3 yr plans then the warranty shouldn?t cover this.
If I use my notebook at the pool and it gets wet or if I spill Coke on it then I don?t expect the warranty to cover this sort of damage. This is not a problem with the machine, but how the machine has been treated.
I whole-heartedly agree. I can't pour wine or soda on my computer and expect the warranty to cover the damage.
I totally understand where Apple is coming from. I work on PC's at work and I have had to work on users notebooks that looked, and smelled like they were using it as an ash tray. Its disgusting! I smell and feel dirty after working on it.
Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.
I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
There is a saying that people living in glass houses should not throw stones.
Currently, there are virtually thousands of US products on recall, e.g., FDA*, Auto?, Consumer products** , which evidence somebody's lack of care for the health of the people they want to sell to.
* http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm
? http://www.autorecalls.us/
**http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prerelnov09.html
To air is human.
Worse, it is cowardly.
How do we know that picture is a result of cigarettes? That could be from many things.
"Many things" ??? ... Such as?
Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.
I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.
Like you buy your wife a life insurance policy and decide to kill her:
Naturally, you wouldn't expect to collect on the policy if you were found guilty of the crime, but you expect the premiums be returned to you?
"nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Water is also on OSHA's list. Water is toxic.
I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?
That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.
I can see this going to court.
Sorry. Smoking is not perfectly legal in California. You can't smoke in bars and restaurants. Second hand smoke affects the workers who have to work there. In my fair town of Santa Cruz, you can't smoke on Pacific Avenue nor can you smoke on the city owned beaches. All related to the hazards of second hand smoke. Yes, it has been banned in certain areas.
Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.
Smoking in any public place or place of employment is illegal in Ohio - Ohio voters voted in favor of this ban in 2006.
A big fuck you to Steve Jobs! What's next? People who eat meat can't send in their Macs for repair anymore?
No, it's YOUR attitude that is unbelievable. Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passed to say that they're going to protect their employees' health. They're doing the right thing.
So did you already sell your car and bought a bike to go to work?!