AT&T continues to counter Verizon claims as Apple enters ad fray

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  • Reply 121 of 220
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Neither carrier has made it clear that there 3G network architectures are completely different. AT&T wasn?t able to offer the same coverage as Verizon due to spectrum differences or allow for soft hand offs when switching from 3G to 2G and Verizon wasn?t able to advance their network speed and functionality the way AT&T has. Verizon could have gone to EVDO Rev. B, but that is simple an expensive stop gate for a dead end tech. LTE is the much better choice.



    They are trying to make ads so normal people can understand, not giving Americans a physics lesson.



    There is no difference in spectrum for both carriers --- they are both baby bells who got cheap 800 MHz spectrums. This is not like newer entrants like T-Mobile USA who has to settle with 1900 MHz spectrum which doesn't travel inside buildings as well.



    EV-DO Rev B is a software only upgrade on the cell tower side, very cheap to deploy.



    http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2009/First...00_System.html



    http://www.rethink-wireless.com/arti...rticle_id=1488
  • Reply 122 of 220
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kalkap View Post


    That's good info to know. Thanks.

    Just out of curiosity, I stepped outside and connected to the internet but it stayed EDGE.



    He's got completely incorrect information.



    Building penetration is mostly affected by the spectrum used. Both AT&T and Verizon have 800 MHz spectrums --- so it doesn't matter. It's not like T-Mobile USA has only 1900 MHz spectrum.



    WCDMA will have better in-building penetration on the same spectrum than EDGE --- because WCDMA can talk to multiple cell towers at once.
  • Reply 123 of 220
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zep View Post


    fair enough. i personally couldnt deal with it either. to me it felt like i was going to break it while typing. the problem with it now, in my opinion, is its too underpowered. thats mostly due to its size and heating problems with more powerful tech inside



    It seemed quite durable to me. The older plastic MBs had more flex to them. If you want to see a ultra-light notebook that really is flimsy check out any of the MBA competitors that are using carbon fiber. CF can be very rigid but if you make it too thin it’s useless.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masstrkiller View Post


    Am I missing something here? I hope you are joking. Verizon currently is the bigger company of the two.



    If you are referring to AT&T or Apple, Verizon is larger than neither. They both are considerably bigger than Verizon.
    • Market Cap 184B — http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL

    • Market Cap 158B — http://www.google.com/finance?q=T

    • Market Cap 89B — http://www.google.com/finance?q=VZ
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    Is it selling the network or selling a technical feature?



    It’s selling a technical feature that is inherent to the network type. Since Apple only sells the iPhone on AT&T in the US and this is a common feature on “3GSM" devices I’d say that Apple is selling the network itself with these particular ads.
  • Reply 124 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by json View Post


    Sorry to be nitpicking, but the GSM system cannot handle simultaneous data and voice-calls (with or without EDGE).



    However, the UMTS system (i.e. AT&T:s version of 3G) can, whereas Verizons version cannot.



    Still, it's fun to see Apple join this "fight" and do it by pointing out the advantages with the iPhone and UMTS instead of badmouthing the competition.



    "Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) is a protocol based on the GSM standard that allows simultaneous transfer of Circuit switched (CS) voice and Packet switched (PS) data over the same radio channel (ARFCN). DTM is a 3GPP baseline R99 feature.

    A mobile phone which is DTM capable can be engaged in both CS and PS call and simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE networks."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Transfer_Mode



    The iPhone 3G and the iPhone 3GS are DTM-capable phones (i.e. can handle simultaneous data and voice-calls with EDGE):



    "X-Gold 608:This is the baseband processor used in the iPhone 3G and the iPhone 3GS.It is also known as the PMB8878."

    http://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/in...tle=X-Gold_608



    "PMB8878 X-GOLD 608: DTM class 11..."

    http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/produ...12ab6ab94205ef
  • Reply 125 of 220
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by konagold View Post


    GSM/EDGE can also support simultaneous voice/data. T-Mobile US supports this and Blackberrys have been doing this on TMO' EDGE network for quite a while. It's nothing new to a BB user on TMO, it's expected.

    So when the Apple ad asks "can my phone do that?", my answer is "why yes, my Blackberry has been doing that for years now." :-)



    BTW, I also have iphones and androids too, so no flames please from apple cultists :-),



    I have no idea if Southern Bell's ... err AT&T *Inc.'s* EDGE network supports sim voice/data on EDGE.



    For voice/data, both the cell network' protocol and device firmware must support it, technically there is nothing that stops Verizon or any other GSM/CDMA carrier from supporting sim voice/data, today it's usually just software revs on the cell network.



    Just remember, the Verizon/Apple/AT&T ads are really nothing more than marketing fluff anyway.



    Wrong. The currently used GSM/EDGE protocol class in the US does not support simultaneous voice/data. Of course you can look at old emails that are already downloaded on you phone while on a call using GSM/EDGE, but you cannot send/receive any new emails or use the internet while on GSM/EDGE. A previous post mentioned Dual Transfer Mode (DTM). But no US carriers support this mode.



    BTW, Verizon will never support simultaneous voice/data on their current CDMA network. Their next network upgrade (LTE) will support simultaneous voice/data, but that will takes years to complete.
  • Reply 126 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Oh- I thought it was for all your friends that still had the first gen iPhone.



    Remember its about to be a NEW decade...2010....
  • Reply 127 of 220
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    It isn't hard to counter the Apple ads. Obviously it does voice and data at the same time which is cool, but what it doesn't do is allow multiple apps to run that would use data at the same time which is NOT COOL.



    So all they do is show a phone browsing the web and then show it answering a SMS message without having to close out and reload the browser.



    Score one for the competition.



    Verizon could hit back by simply showing the speed of EDGE and how AT&T is now boasting about it. It could even be a redux of the Apple PowerPC ad where a snail could be carrying the EDGE map or something of that nature.



    For the most part the Verizon ads were more effective because they made people question the network and gave those who have heard people complain about AT&T a singular image to coalesce their thinking around. This is marking, not logic so it doens't have to be rationale.



    Even when Apple does the reply ad and hits it out of the park, most people can barely text with their phones let alone talk and browse the web. They made the point as effectively as it could be made but the lay person who can't understand the term "3G" isn't going to understand "simultaneous voice and data" any better. It likely hurts AT&T's case as well because claiming that people are idiots who won't understand the term 3G but would understand voice/data at the same time makes them idiots in one regard and totally informed nerd consumers in the other. It doesn't work both ways.



    Looks like the competition is heating up all around.
  • Reply 128 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    So I disabled my 3G and reverted back to EDGE just now to take this screenshot. Hmmm. Back to 3G for me.







    Unfortunately that's the screen the majority of customers will see. When it comes down to it, AT&T has the phone and the technology, but its unwilling to invest more than token upgrades in its network. Verizon doesn't have the phone or the GSM technology, but has been willing to upgrade most of its towers to 3G coverage.
  • Reply 129 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ALBIM View Post


    If I were head of verizon marketing, I would make a commercial that starts out just like the Apple ad, and just as he's about to access the email...the call is dropped.



    Then followed by ad on Verizon entitled "Don't Count on It"...



    It starts off with Verizon not being able to use a calculator to do math in order to bill correctly...



    http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80540476/



    Then an Apple iPhone fades into view and the announcer says "That's not the only thing Verizon can't count on!!'
  • Reply 130 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post


    Remember its about to be a NEW decade...2010....



    Better sign-up for your iPhone, because we all know what is going to happen in 2012! At least you'll be contract free!
  • Reply 131 of 220
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post


    Remember its about to be a NEW decade...2010....



    That's right!

    This has certainly been the decade of Apple even more so than Steve Jobs.

    1.) Apple Computers now Apple Inc. -company of the decade

    2.) Terrorists attack the Big Apple

    3.) Beatle re-release their Apple catalogue (no iTunes mind you but nevertheless)

    4.) Gwyneth Paltrow gives birth to a baby named - Apple

    5.) SnApple becomes the official drink of New York
  • Reply 132 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    How do you actually do both simulltaneously on that small screen anyway? just curious. Speaker phone- Is that what we're talking here?



    You only have to LISTEN to a phone call, stop try[ing to be a wise-ass, it doesn't work for you. You just look an ass.



    Watch the ads, it shows you exactly how it works.
  • Reply 133 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Ummm, what do any of these commercials have to do with AT&T's lackluster 3G coverage/service? Seems like they're skirting the issue... AGAIN!



    I think it has been hashed and rehashed:



    "3G" is simply a loose term that means "Third Generation". Third generation of what, though?



    Hmmm, two different technologies, apparently. UMTS and CDMA



    Wow, Verizon has most of their network on the 3G of CDMA. Great! Whoopee!



    ATT on the other hand has most of their UTMS network at a so-called "2 or 2.5G" level of UTMS. Oh, no! What to do!



    I guess the Verizon ads are technically correct: Verizon "3G" covers most of the country, while ATT 3G covers much less of the ATT network.



    This is terrible, ATT sucks! ...or does it?



    UMTS 2.5G / Edge / whatever, has a bandwidth and throughput that approaches the 3rd Gen of Verizon's CDMA technology. UTMS has legs. It's 3G is still a growing tech, and throughput will start at 7.2mps. You don't get that on CDMA



    CDMA is old hat. It's a dead end. Few other countries are still using it.



    UTMS is where everyone is developing. When LTE comes out in a year or two, it is backward compatible with UTMS 2 & 3G. Where there is no LTE coverage for ATT you will still get 7.2mps.



    If you can't get LTE with Verizon, there is nothing to fall back on.



    So, what is being compared is a term, nothing more, "3G". It really does depend on what it is the 3rd Gen of, and how far that 3rd Gen can go. Verizon's is dead end. End of story.



    And again, if Verizon had the iPhone, you can bet your butt that it's network would have issues. Good grief, I just read that the iPhone is accountable for more than 50% mobile web traffic in US and UK and almost that in many other countries. More like 70% in UK. Please.



    Good luck with your CDMA. It's like saying, "hey I got me a great Pentium four that runs at 3.5 GHZ, and your Core 2 Duo only runs at 2GHZ, so there! See how my number 4 is bigger than your number 2?"
  • Reply 134 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    He's got completely incorrect information.



    Building penetration is mostly affected by the spectrum used. Both AT&T and Verizon have 800 MHz spectrums --- so it doesn't matter. It's not like T-Mobile USA has only 1900 MHz spectrum.



    WCDMA will have better in-building penetration on the same spectrum than EDGE --- because WCDMA can talk to multiple cell towers at once.







    ATT uses 1900 MHZ for MOST of its 3G network. Except for a few major cities that it has rolled 850 Mhz out in. ATT plans to convert only a SMALL portion of its 3G network from 1900 Mhz to 850 Mhz. So we will continue to have the problem I jusat had. Full Bars outside the doors of Frys here in Southern California and complete loss of 3 G inside the store.
  • Reply 135 of 220
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    WOW! AT&T has the stones to say Verizon's ads are misleading?



    I know some of you will hate me for pointing out the obvious, but what good is simultaneous voice and data if all you have is voice coverage? You're supposed to burn up minutes as you use your slower-than-dogshit connection to buy flowers? "Honey! Hello? I said its our anniversary! DON'T ACT LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE SERVICE I CAN HEAR YOU BREATHING." I'm not saying 3g doesn't exist, just that your chances of having 3g and voice are lower than AT&T would like to admit.



    Now on to the Wilson ad. Again, misleading as fuck. At least Verizon's ads showed "3g coverage" under it. AT&T will make idiots think they'll have a perfect connection all over the country.



    Stupid ads for stupid people. If anyone doesn't know what they're getting into because they listened to these ads instead of doing a little reading, it's their own damn fault.



    So just like the "I'm a mac, I'm a PC" ads, everyone should take them with a grain of salt.



    The Federal judge who dismissed AT&T's action against Verizon said that the Verizon ads were "sneaky" but not misleading. AT&T appears to have interpreted this decision as encouragement to release their own sneaky but not misleading ads. Fair is fair. Verizon is getting a dose of their own medicine.
  • Reply 136 of 220
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kalkap View Post


    Iphone killer term is a joke...Apple OS is exclusive to iPhone and Google OS isn't (which is the only thing out that goes neck and neck with the Apple OS), therefore no single phone is going to have the exact same impact as the iPhone.

    Now if you want a phone that will do everything an iPhone can do AND actually still gets reliable service, the Droid will do that.

    Oh btw, Verizon turned down Apple not vice versa so I fail to see how they are drooling for the iPhone. Last time I checked, Verizon still has more customers than AT&T even after 2 yrs or so of the iPhone (and they both have had mergers).



    I hear that Ivan Seidenberg is a nice guy to work for. Is that true?
  • Reply 137 of 220
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Unfortunately that's the screen the majority of customers will see. When it comes down to it, AT&T has the phone and the technology, but its unwilling to invest more than token upgrades in its network. Verizon doesn't have the phone or the GSM technology, but has been willing to upgrade most of its towers to 3G coverage.



    Made me think of another Verizon ad they could do. Misfit iPhone trying to do voice and data and when asked why it isn't working, show the same map they been pushing in all their commercials. It would be 100% true and drive home the point yet again.
  • Reply 138 of 220
    ifailifail Posts: 463member
    Its funny that Apple had to step in and try to "stick up" for its partner but if i were them i would have stayed out of it completely, this is AT&Ts fight and they need to man up (although, i figured Apple must be concerned because if people say F AT&T and go to VZW then it directly affects them)



    Legitimately how many people use simultaneously voice and data? It really benefits most likely less than 1% of AT&T customers who use it on a regular basis. I use it sparingly (like once a month if that) and its usually not to do anything other than maybe check facebook or something lol.



    Let's be real here, your not gonna be on a phone call and driving while trying to GPS or web surf. I cant think of any one situation where someone has called me and said "hey open up that email i sent you right now" without telling me what it was if it is something of importance.



    Id rather have better 3G coverage on my Bold than have AT&T crying to Apple about being beat up by the Verizon Bully and making halfass ads to boot. Coverage > Simultaneous Voice/Data, and seeing as how you can't use it when you go out past city limits this is a real weak point here.
  • Reply 139 of 220
    eehdeehd Posts: 137member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple's two new TV spots show off the iPhone receiving e-mails and checking movie times while on a phone call. AT&T's UMTS/GSM network allows simultaneous voice and data connections, which Verizon's CDMA network does not.



    If apple is jumping to attack Verizon's network, can there be any truth to the rumor that apple will release an iPhone that works in Verizon's network next year? Although, it could, in theory, work in apples favor in the end...Interesting!
  • Reply 140 of 220
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post


    If you can't get LTE with Verizon, there is nothing to fall back on.



    CDMA will be a fallback for Verizon LTE phones. The chipsets Verizon will use in their phones will be dual-mode that support both LTE and CDMA.
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