So is apple now entranching themselves with ATT? Since they are now saying can your phone and your NETWORK do that, I think this effectively says that verizon blew it with iPhone and iPhone is gonne be attached to ATT untill the end of time. Is kinda sad that Verizon basically forced apple to realign themselves with ATT when a deal to end exclusivity appeared to be so close.
AT&T bashing is fine. they're telco pigs and deserve it. but so is Verizon. i'm amazed V can jack up the cancellation fee to a ridiculous $360 and the Droid lovers meekly swallow it. if it were AT&T, they'd be screaming bloody murder about greed etc. or blaming Apple for not stopping it. why hasn't Google?
as to service quality, if today's AdMob stats are indicative, AT&T has to handle about 5x as much data on its net than Verizon today. we will see how well Verizon performs when it gets the same load level. but right now it is not an equal load to compare at all, not anywhere close. so of course V does better - for now.
finally, anecdotal reports of service are not reliable. i run all over San Francisco and have little problem with 3G reception, except inside big concrete buildings. while many of the tech pundits are probably in buildings crammed full of iphone users that are overwhelming a single local microcell site or two. that is not a typical situation. but since pundits all think they are genius everymen, they assume their reality is the only possible truth.
True. I have great service from AT&T in North Westchester (north of NY city) and rarely have a problem. I do feel sorry for those that have trouble getting service.
However there have been millioins of iphones sold. I find it hard to believe that a huge majority just have terrible voice or data service all of the time. People just like to bash their carrier. AT&T can and will improve their service over time but Verizon (unless they totally replace their network) will never offer simultaneous voice and data.
Most people I have run into in the tri-state area with iphones LOVE their iphones and do not complain about AT&T.
Wow. What's up with the sudden sanity in posts in this thread!?
PS: In case you're wondering -- No, for the record, I don't work for ATT, I don't (directly) own stock in ATT, and I could care less about ATT.... I have no involvement with ATT other than through my iPhone. (Nor do I have anything to do with Verizon).
I just had to jump in. I have been extraordinarily pleased with the three iPhones I've owned, and I've seen the look of buyer's remorse set in when three of my friends started playing with my iPhone after showing me their Android phones.
However, I am absolutely enraged by the AT&T network. I work in temporary office space right now, and have no desk line -- so I use the cell for about 2 hours a day. I have 5 out of 5 bars of 3G signal, but still my calls seem to be almost constantly dropped. In every 15-minute segment it seems to drop about three to four times. This is extremely annoying when you're giving a presentation or trying to stay in tune with what others are saying on a conference line. Sadly, my Sprint blackberry never drops a call there, and shows only 3 out of 5 bars.
This does not happen everywhere. My iPhone seemed to work fine at my old office. This new one, which just so happens to be right next to Irvine Spectrum (which has a very popular Apple store), is just painful. I can't count the number of times I was walking through Spectrum and couldn't get a call to go through without a fast busy or an immediate drop.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
The fact (?) that it's a Software not Hardware Upgrade makes it sound more realistic, but not guaranteed... Add these Qs:
Is VZ going to spend $$ on Rev B, to do Voice and Data at the same time, and thus take away this latest ATT Commercial Advantage? For VZ to do that, they'd need a commitment from Apple that iPhone will do CDMA. Otherwise, both Apple and VZ will skip to LTE... Who is talking to who now is not for us to know till after after something gets announced! Till then - more rumors and spin!
For me it's getting harder and harder to wait for iPhone on VZ, without a guarantee that it can do Voice & Internet @ the same time!
Roll Over Minutes is very attractive! I pay for my minutes and I should be able to use them when I need to! VZ is way too greedy in that respect, trying to trip us into overtime!
As to coverage, it's based on location, and network load, and intermittent issues!
While VZ agonizes about Rev B or skip to LTE, ATT has a straight path to LTE + knows that it has to improve their network...
The Rush to LTE is the next big thing with lots of hype, but either way it'll take time!
Either way, Apple is sitting pretty with iPhone! But, something in my gut is telling me that Apple & VZ wouldn't be the happiest of partnerships!
WWDC next June, 2010, will shed more light, cause that's 1 year cycle since 3GS and Apple would have to announce their next move!!!
I hope to have iPhone long before then, as soon as I get my Palm Treo 700p Memos into iPhone and have it all work! That Memo's Thing is still a mess! I wish this AI Forum could devote a Separate Thread to that Topic, or better yet - I'd like to see Apple make it an EASY TRANSITION!!!
Is there a way to start a New Topic on this Forum, or is it only AI articles that we can Comment on?
True. I have great service from AT&T in North Westchester (north of NY city) and rarely have a problem. I do feel sorry for those that have trouble getting service.
However there have been millioins of iphones sold. I find it hard to believe that a huge majority just have terrible voice or data service all of the time. People just like to bash their carrier. AT&T can and will improve their service over time but Verizon (unless they totally replace their network) will never offer simultaneous voice and data.
Most people I have run into in the tri-state area with iphones LOVE their iphones and do not complain about AT&T.
I'll second this. I'm in Houston and I've been very happy with AT&T service. HSDPA data speeds varying from 800 to 2000 kbit/s with fine call quality. HSDPA is generally available in all suburbs and exurbs. EDGE available on secluded Gulf coast beaches and in-between the big cities. I was using Verizon with a Treo 650 before and the experience was basically awful, though that was more on Palm's end than Verizon.
Though there was one thing about CDMA. I never hear people talk about this feature of CDMA that drove me nuts. Conference calling on the Treo 650 and CDMA was basically useless if you were the one controlling the conference. You couldn't hang-up on individual lines; the person on the other end had to hang up first. All you could do was hang up on every one. So what happened a lot was that I'd call someone, they don't answer, I'd hit the automated voicemail, the other person realizes they missed a call and calls me back. So I'm on voicemail on one line and receiving on another line. Since I couldn't hang up the voicemail line, I'd leave a blank voicemail. Either that or hang-up all. If Apple creates a CDMA iPhone, it'll have this stupid feature. Argh, the Treo 650 was piece of crap. I had dropped calls aplenty. And CDMA can't penetrate my house, which has a radiant barrier, any better than GSM.
I digress. This is a fanboy game between Verizon and AT&T, and it's bringing out extreme positions between wireless services that aren't much different from each other in the grand scheme of things. Certainly AT&T is saturated in areas with lots of iPhones, but in the grand scheme of things they are about the same. Generally, wireless carriers are greedy bastards that'll exorbitantly milk you for as much as they can get away with. Yet, amazingly enough, there is wireless operator/carrier fandom. Go figure.
What? No one has overage minutes at $0.45 minute, even if it was for one second. Or that a call for 61 seconds is counted as 2 minutes? Or "phantom" charges? Car salesman, fitness gym, door-to-door solicitor like service tactics?
Is VZ going to spend $$ on Rev B, to do Voice and Data at the same time, and thus take away this latest ATT Commercial Advantage? For VZ to do that, they'd need a commitment from Apple that iPhone will do CDMA. Otherwise, both Apple and VZ will skip to LTE... Who is talking to who now is not for us to know till after after something gets announced! Till then - more rumors and spin!
Verizon is committed to LTE and will not spend the money to upgrade to Rev. B. If they do that, they mind as well not do LTE at all, or push it out another 3 years. The world is moving to LTE type technologies, including the chipsets. Verizon will become an island with CDMA if they include Rev B in their upgrade path, and that'll just mean more expensive equipment all around.
Quote:
As to coverage, it's based on location, and network load, and intermittent issues!
And handsets, building type/materials, geography (lots of iron in that bedrock?), how a person holds a phone, population density, handset density, cell tower density and handoff capability. It's basically a very long list of things that can interfere with your call quality. It's amazing it works in the first place.
Quote:
I hope to have iPhone long before then, as soon as I get my Palm Treo 700p Memos into iPhone and have it all work! That Memo's Thing is still a mess! I wish this AI Forum could devote a Separate Thread to that Topic, or better yet - I'd like to see Apple make it an EASY TRANSITION!!!
Aren't their like a gazillion note taking applications? Me, I don't take notes.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
The tower can only handle so many calls. If you are on a highly saturated tower, you'll get dropped calls even though you have good signal. Also, if you are in between towers, the tower handoffs can sometimes result in dropped calls. Sometimes, your handset and the multiple towers can't decide which tower to lock on to, this will result in rather rapid battery drain and dropped calls.
My workplace is rather remarkable sometimes. I can go from GPRS (the "o") to EDGE to HSDPA with 1 "bar" of signal to 5 bars of signal. My workplace contracts with ATT for Blackberries and of course there are lot of iPhones and other ATT handsets (we have a 15% ATT discount). I have to believe that during some days, people just happen to use their phone at the same time, crushes the tower, and results in big fluctuations in signal quality I see sometimes.
Verizon is committed to LTE and will not spend the money to upgrade to Rev. B. If they do that, they mind as well not do LTE at all, or push it out another 3 years. The world is moving to LTE type technologies, including the chipsets. Verizon will become an island with CDMA if they include Rev B in their upgrade path, and that'll just mean more expensive equipment all around.
It's not about having more expensive equipement around --- Verizon always had bad economies on scale, but they continued to have the highest mobile profit margins.
It's more to do with spectrum management. EV-DO rev B is just bonding three 1.5 MHz channels together --- you gain top speed, but you lose flexibility in spectrum management. It's like how wifi routers were marketed as 108 mbps --- they just bond 2 wifi channels together.
LTE has 1.4 MHz, 3, 5, and 10 MHz channel size to choose from.
'Considered...", so much for the Brass Balls theory! The guy's a prick!
Real "Father of the Year" material!
I am sorry, you can judge all you want but you don't know him or the situation as a WHOLE. We all do dumb things say dumb things in life at some point or another. Some do it more then others. And some never learn from their mistakes. But like I said, you can judge it, but you really are cutting yourself off from actually knowing if he is a dick.
So is apple now entranching themselves with ATT? Since they are now saying can your phone and your NETWORK do that, I think this effectively says that verizon blew it with iPhone and iPhone is gonne be attached to ATT untill the end of time. Is kinda sad that Verizon basically forced apple to realign themselves with ATT when a deal to end exclusivity appeared to be so close.
These type of things can change in a wiff. This is all about right now, not later. This is more about AT&T and Verizon, not Apple.
I firmly believe that this does nothing in preventing iPhone opening up to Verizon in the near future. In the next 18 to 36 months we will see iPhone on another carrier. It would just be stupid and business suicide for Apple not too.
I just had to jump in. I have been extraordinarily pleased with the three iPhones I've owned, and I've seen the look of buyer's remorse set in when three of my friends started playing with my iPhone after showing me their Android phones.
However, I am absolutely enraged by the AT&T network. I work in temporary office space right now, and have no desk line -- so I use the cell for about 2 hours a day. I have 5 out of 5 bars of 3G signal, but still my calls seem to be almost constantly dropped. In every 15-minute segment it seems to drop about three to four times. This is extremely annoying when you're giving a presentation or trying to stay in tune with what others are saying on a conference line. Sadly, my Sprint blackberry never drops a call there, and shows only 3 out of 5 bars.
This does not happen everywhere. My iPhone seemed to work fine at my old office. This new one, which just so happens to be right next to Irvine Spectrum (which has a very popular Apple store), is just painful. I can't count the number of times I was walking through Spectrum and couldn't get a call to go through without a fast busy or an immediate drop.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
there are two separate phenomenon going on. the bars measuring signal strength tell you how close you are to the microcell site and how strong its broadcast power is. but they do not tell you the call/data capacity of that site, which is determined by its hardware. they are not all the same. if a cell site overloads with too many simultaneous calls for that hardware it will start dropping some no matter what its signal strength. other nearby cell sites are supposed to and may be able to pick the call up - or not if they are too far away or too busy too. your examples of your two office locations demonstrate all this in action. lot of other calls are trying to roll off to the other nearby cell site too.
the last two years ATT has deployed software updates to its existing hardware to increase the capacity as best it could. and now it is installing a next generation of hardware that will greatly increase it. we'll see by the end of next year if that makes a big difference.
These type of things can change in a wiff. This is all about right now, not later. This is more about AT&T and Verizon, not Apple.
I firmly believe that this does nothing in preventing iPhone opening up to Verizon in the near future. In the next 18 to 36 months we will see iPhone on another carrier. It would just be stupid and business suicide for Apple not too.
Exactly 18-36 months is ways away, rumors were that exclusivity will end in 2010 in favor of verizon. Will that happen next year? Unlikely, at least not in the first half of the year. And if android takes off ATT can blackmail apple with dropping support or reducing subsidies if it shares exclusivity (switching to android entirely and leaving apple with tmobile or us cellular) which will force apple to extend exclusivity through 2010 and possibly untill some new iphone nano or iphone pro comes out in 2011 or 12. And that is lightyears away in tech world.
Its funny that Apple had to step in and try to "stick up" for its partner but if i were them i would have stayed out of it completely, this is AT&Ts fight and they need to man up (although, i figured Apple must be concerned because if people say F AT&T and go to VZW then it directly affects them)
Oh, I'd nuke em. Verizon is actively trying to decrease iPhone sales. Whether it is a direct attack or by implication it doesn't matter. Apple should escalate the ad war as much as they are willing and able, as Verizon is actively trying to hurt Apple's bottom line.
Quote:
Legitimately how many people use simultaneously voice and data? It really benefits most likely less than 1% of AT&T customers who use it on a regular basis. I use it sparingly (like once a month if that) and its usually not to do anything other than maybe check facebook or something lol.
Let's be real here, your not gonna be on a phone call and driving while trying to GPS or web surf. I cant think of any one situation where someone has called me and said "hey open up that email i sent you right now" without telling me what it was if it is something of importance.
Yeah, but this generally true of a lot of features on cell phones and such. We can argue what is more useful, but the usage cases in a lot of this feature comparisons only apply to less than 10%, probably less than 5%, of the population.
Droid does commercial:
Running widgets. Um, how many and how useful?
UI customization. How many and how useful?
Nightshots with the camera. How many and how useful?
Simultaneous apps. How many and how useful?
Real keyboard. Big difference compared to soft keyboard?
Open development. Irrelevant to the end customer. Hell, it's irrelevant to developers too.
Interchangeable batteries. How many and how useful?
Each and everyone one of these features are only truly useful to a small fraction to end customers on the same order as simultaneous voice and data. For some, it would be great. For others, it'll be something else. I can even include MMS and tethering in the mix. And the Droid Does commercial advantages aren't all that great either. It's also cute how they say "simultaneous apps" and not multitasking. The lawyers are good.
It's an ad war, so every little bit of leverage will be used to create an impression. Since it is advertising, it is 10% truth and 90% truth bending. You really shouldn't believe any of it.
Quote:
Id rather have better 3G coverage on my Bold than have AT&T crying to Apple about being beat up by the Verizon Bully and making halfass ads to boot. Coverage > Simultaneous Voice/Data, and seeing as how you can't use it when you go out past city limits this is a real weak point here.
I think you are dreaming. No company will invest in infrastructure that isn't used. That is, upgrade rural areas to 3G over upgrading the populated areas to the next-gen. The rural areas will always be the last to get the tech. Densely populated areas will have HSPA/HSUPA and LTE before rural areas get HSDPA. ATT's upgrade cycle is about 1 to 2 years (?) behind Verizon, and they started late in swallowing up regional carriers to grow their network compared to Verizon. And they were smaller to begin with. It'll take time.
Also, there are hundreds of improvements I want to see in iPhone handsets too. It's too bad that only a few of them will be done.
there are two separate phenomenon going on. the bars measuring signal strength tell you how close you are to the microcell site and how strong its broadcast power is. but they do not tell you the call/data capacity of that site, which is determined by its hardware. they are not all the same. if a cell site overloads with too many simultaneous calls for that hardware it will start dropping some no matter what its signal strength. other nearby cell sites are supposed to and may be able to pick the call up - or not if they are too far away or too busy too. your examples of your two office locations demonstrate all this in action. lot of other calls are trying to roll off to the other nearby cell site too.
the last two years ATT has deployed software updates to its existing hardware to increase the capacity as best it could. and now it is installing a next generation of hardware that will greatly increase it. we'll see by the end of next year if that makes a big difference.
Thank you for clearing that up. I have always wondered why the bars on the menu at times seemed to have no correlation to the call quality. Having said that, I don't have any problems in my area, nor do I when I travel to other metropolitan areas. For me, it just works.
Fortunately, dropped calls don't seem to be an issue on Rogers. However, I can't say that it never has happened. But on occasion, it has happened. Whether or not this will help, I simply reset the Network Settings on my iPhone and everything seems to clears up.*
Incidentally, I now do a soft reset at least once a month and a hard reset as well, particularly after installing/updating large iPhone apps.
It is obvious that dropped calls is a natural phenomena that has perplexed the wireless community from day one and nobody is immune from it.†**
I am wondering if those that have issues with calls being dropped on their iPhones if they cleared their iPhone, did a hard reset and tested their voice service before reinstalling their apps. Of course that would require that one has an iPhone in the first place. A criteria that can't be fulfilled by many commentators here.
Certainly there is evidence that Verizon has less issues with dropped calls that AT&T.† But it has more other issues if they were an iPhone carrier.
For those that think the Droid will address everything, it too is having problems with dropped calls.*** And on the Verizon network at that.
Comments
Yeah, "You rude, thoughtless little pig!", he says in a voicemail to his daughter...
http://www.tvguide.com/news/alec-bal...e-1006923.aspx
'Considered...", so much for the Brass Balls theory! The guy's a prick!
Real "Father of the Year" material!
As an actor.
Hasselhoff was cool, too, minus his life behind closed doors, which apparently involves eating Wendy's off the bathroom floor when hammered.
AT&T bashing is fine. they're telco pigs and deserve it. but so is Verizon. i'm amazed V can jack up the cancellation fee to a ridiculous $360 and the Droid lovers meekly swallow it. if it were AT&T, they'd be screaming bloody murder about greed etc. or blaming Apple for not stopping it. why hasn't Google?
as to service quality, if today's AdMob stats are indicative, AT&T has to handle about 5x as much data on its net than Verizon today. we will see how well Verizon performs when it gets the same load level. but right now it is not an equal load to compare at all, not anywhere close. so of course V does better - for now.
finally, anecdotal reports of service are not reliable. i run all over San Francisco and have little problem with 3G reception, except inside big concrete buildings. while many of the tech pundits are probably in buildings crammed full of iphone users that are overwhelming a single local microcell site or two. that is not a typical situation. but since pundits all think they are genius everymen, they assume their reality is the only possible truth.
Superb post. Well said!
True. I have great service from AT&T in North Westchester (north of NY city) and rarely have a problem. I do feel sorry for those that have trouble getting service.
However there have been millioins of iphones sold. I find it hard to believe that a huge majority just have terrible voice or data service all of the time. People just like to bash their carrier. AT&T can and will improve their service over time but Verizon (unless they totally replace their network) will never offer simultaneous voice and data.
Most people I have run into in the tri-state area with iphones LOVE their iphones and do not complain about AT&T.
Wow. What's up with the sudden sanity in posts in this thread!?
PS: In case you're wondering -- No, for the record, I don't work for ATT, I don't (directly) own stock in ATT, and I could care less about ATT.... I have no involvement with ATT other than through my iPhone. (Nor do I have anything to do with Verizon).
However, I am absolutely enraged by the AT&T network. I work in temporary office space right now, and have no desk line -- so I use the cell for about 2 hours a day. I have 5 out of 5 bars of 3G signal, but still my calls seem to be almost constantly dropped. In every 15-minute segment it seems to drop about three to four times. This is extremely annoying when you're giving a presentation or trying to stay in tune with what others are saying on a conference line. Sadly, my Sprint blackberry never drops a call there, and shows only 3 out of 5 bars.
This does not happen everywhere. My iPhone seemed to work fine at my old office. This new one, which just so happens to be right next to Irvine Spectrum (which has a very popular Apple store), is just painful. I can't count the number of times I was walking through Spectrum and couldn't get a call to go through without a fast busy or an immediate drop.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
EV-DO Rev B is a software only upgrade on the cell tower side, very cheap to deploy.
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2009/First...00_System.html
http://www.rethink-wireless.com/arti...rticle_id=1488
The fact (?) that it's a Software not Hardware Upgrade makes it sound more realistic, but not guaranteed... Add these Qs:
Is VZ going to spend $$ on Rev B, to do Voice and Data at the same time, and thus take away this latest ATT Commercial Advantage? For VZ to do that, they'd need a commitment from Apple that iPhone will do CDMA. Otherwise, both Apple and VZ will skip to LTE... Who is talking to who now is not for us to know till after after something gets announced! Till then - more rumors and spin!
For me it's getting harder and harder to wait for iPhone on VZ, without a guarantee that it can do Voice & Internet @ the same time!
Roll Over Minutes is very attractive! I pay for my minutes and I should be able to use them when I need to! VZ is way too greedy in that respect, trying to trip us into overtime!
As to coverage, it's based on location, and network load, and intermittent issues!
While VZ agonizes about Rev B or skip to LTE, ATT has a straight path to LTE + knows that it has to improve their network...
The Rush to LTE is the next big thing with lots of hype, but either way it'll take time!
Either way, Apple is sitting pretty with iPhone! But, something in my gut is telling me that Apple & VZ wouldn't be the happiest of partnerships!
WWDC next June, 2010, will shed more light, cause that's 1 year cycle since 3GS and Apple would have to announce their next move!!!
I hope to have iPhone long before then, as soon as I get my Palm Treo 700p Memos into iPhone and have it all work! That Memo's Thing is still a mess! I wish this AI Forum could devote a Separate Thread to that Topic, or better yet - I'd like to see Apple make it an EASY TRANSITION!!!
Is there a way to start a New Topic on this Forum, or is it only AI articles that we can Comment on?
True. I have great service from AT&T in North Westchester (north of NY city) and rarely have a problem. I do feel sorry for those that have trouble getting service.
However there have been millioins of iphones sold. I find it hard to believe that a huge majority just have terrible voice or data service all of the time. People just like to bash their carrier. AT&T can and will improve their service over time but Verizon (unless they totally replace their network) will never offer simultaneous voice and data.
Most people I have run into in the tri-state area with iphones LOVE their iphones and do not complain about AT&T.
I'll second this. I'm in Houston and I've been very happy with AT&T service. HSDPA data speeds varying from 800 to 2000 kbit/s with fine call quality. HSDPA is generally available in all suburbs and exurbs. EDGE available on secluded Gulf coast beaches and in-between the big cities. I was using Verizon with a Treo 650 before and the experience was basically awful, though that was more on Palm's end than Verizon.
Though there was one thing about CDMA. I never hear people talk about this feature of CDMA that drove me nuts. Conference calling on the Treo 650 and CDMA was basically useless if you were the one controlling the conference. You couldn't hang-up on individual lines; the person on the other end had to hang up first. All you could do was hang up on every one. So what happened a lot was that I'd call someone, they don't answer, I'd hit the automated voicemail, the other person realizes they missed a call and calls me back. So I'm on voicemail on one line and receiving on another line. Since I couldn't hang up the voicemail line, I'd leave a blank voicemail. Either that or hang-up all. If Apple creates a CDMA iPhone, it'll have this stupid feature. Argh, the Treo 650 was piece of crap. I had dropped calls aplenty. And CDMA can't penetrate my house, which has a radiant barrier, any better than GSM.
I digress. This is a fanboy game between Verizon and AT&T, and it's bringing out extreme positions between wireless services that aren't much different from each other in the grand scheme of things. Certainly AT&T is saturated in areas with lots of iPhones, but in the grand scheme of things they are about the same. Generally, wireless carriers are greedy bastards that'll exorbitantly milk you for as much as they can get away with. Yet, amazingly enough, there is wireless operator/carrier fandom. Go figure.
What? No one has overage minutes at $0.45 minute, even if it was for one second. Or that a call for 61 seconds is counted as 2 minutes? Or "phantom" charges? Car salesman, fitness gym, door-to-door solicitor like service tactics?
Is VZ going to spend $$ on Rev B, to do Voice and Data at the same time, and thus take away this latest ATT Commercial Advantage?
It has nothing to do with the iphone.
Verizon can do voice and data at the same time if they do VoIP-over-EV-DO rev A --- no need to even go and upgrade to rev B.
The fact is that the vast majority of Americans have flip phones and Verizon doesn't feel the need to implement this feature.
Is VZ going to spend $$ on Rev B, to do Voice and Data at the same time, and thus take away this latest ATT Commercial Advantage? For VZ to do that, they'd need a commitment from Apple that iPhone will do CDMA. Otherwise, both Apple and VZ will skip to LTE... Who is talking to who now is not for us to know till after after something gets announced! Till then - more rumors and spin!
Verizon is committed to LTE and will not spend the money to upgrade to Rev. B. If they do that, they mind as well not do LTE at all, or push it out another 3 years. The world is moving to LTE type technologies, including the chipsets. Verizon will become an island with CDMA if they include Rev B in their upgrade path, and that'll just mean more expensive equipment all around.
As to coverage, it's based on location, and network load, and intermittent issues!
And handsets, building type/materials, geography (lots of iron in that bedrock?), how a person holds a phone, population density, handset density, cell tower density and handoff capability. It's basically a very long list of things that can interfere with your call quality. It's amazing it works in the first place.
I hope to have iPhone long before then, as soon as I get my Palm Treo 700p Memos into iPhone and have it all work! That Memo's Thing is still a mess! I wish this AI Forum could devote a Separate Thread to that Topic, or better yet - I'd like to see Apple make it an EASY TRANSITION!!!
Aren't their like a gazillion note taking applications? Me, I don't take notes.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
The tower can only handle so many calls. If you are on a highly saturated tower, you'll get dropped calls even though you have good signal. Also, if you are in between towers, the tower handoffs can sometimes result in dropped calls. Sometimes, your handset and the multiple towers can't decide which tower to lock on to, this will result in rather rapid battery drain and dropped calls.
My workplace is rather remarkable sometimes. I can go from GPRS (the "o") to EDGE to HSDPA with 1 "bar" of signal to 5 bars of signal. My workplace contracts with ATT for Blackberries and of course there are lot of iPhones and other ATT handsets (we have a 15% ATT discount). I have to believe that during some days, people just happen to use their phone at the same time, crushes the tower, and results in big fluctuations in signal quality I see sometimes.
Verizon is committed to LTE and will not spend the money to upgrade to Rev. B. If they do that, they mind as well not do LTE at all, or push it out another 3 years. The world is moving to LTE type technologies, including the chipsets. Verizon will become an island with CDMA if they include Rev B in their upgrade path, and that'll just mean more expensive equipment all around.
It's not about having more expensive equipement around --- Verizon always had bad economies on scale, but they continued to have the highest mobile profit margins.
It's more to do with spectrum management. EV-DO rev B is just bonding three 1.5 MHz channels together --- you gain top speed, but you lose flexibility in spectrum management. It's like how wifi routers were marketed as 108 mbps --- they just bond 2 wifi channels together.
LTE has 1.4 MHz, 3, 5, and 10 MHz channel size to choose from.
Yeah, "You rude, thoughtless little pig!", he says in a voicemail to his daughter...
http://www.tvguide.com/news/alec-bal...e-1006923.aspx
'Considered...", so much for the Brass Balls theory! The guy's a prick!
Real "Father of the Year" material!
I am sorry, you can judge all you want but you don't know him or the situation as a WHOLE. We all do dumb things say dumb things in life at some point or another. Some do it more then others. And some never learn from their mistakes. But like I said, you can judge it, but you really are cutting yourself off from actually knowing if he is a dick.
I could care less by the way.
Have a happy day.
So is apple now entranching themselves with ATT? Since they are now saying can your phone and your NETWORK do that, I think this effectively says that verizon blew it with iPhone and iPhone is gonne be attached to ATT untill the end of time. Is kinda sad that Verizon basically forced apple to realign themselves with ATT when a deal to end exclusivity appeared to be so close.
These type of things can change in a wiff. This is all about right now, not later. This is more about AT&T and Verizon, not Apple.
I firmly believe that this does nothing in preventing iPhone opening up to Verizon in the near future. In the next 18 to 36 months we will see iPhone on another carrier. It would just be stupid and business suicide for Apple not too.
I just had to jump in. I have been extraordinarily pleased with the three iPhones I've owned, and I've seen the look of buyer's remorse set in when three of my friends started playing with my iPhone after showing me their Android phones.
However, I am absolutely enraged by the AT&T network. I work in temporary office space right now, and have no desk line -- so I use the cell for about 2 hours a day. I have 5 out of 5 bars of 3G signal, but still my calls seem to be almost constantly dropped. In every 15-minute segment it seems to drop about three to four times. This is extremely annoying when you're giving a presentation or trying to stay in tune with what others are saying on a conference line. Sadly, my Sprint blackberry never drops a call there, and shows only 3 out of 5 bars.
This does not happen everywhere. My iPhone seemed to work fine at my old office. This new one, which just so happens to be right next to Irvine Spectrum (which has a very popular Apple store), is just painful. I can't count the number of times I was walking through Spectrum and couldn't get a call to go through without a fast busy or an immediate drop.
I am sure that AT&T has to put up with immensely more data flow than any other network (mostly due to the web browser-happy iPhone users), but I don't understand why my calls just drop when I have 5 out of 5 bars. This has to stop. If it doesn't and Apple opens up the iPhone to other networks, I will be the first person in line.
there are two separate phenomenon going on. the bars measuring signal strength tell you how close you are to the microcell site and how strong its broadcast power is. but they do not tell you the call/data capacity of that site, which is determined by its hardware. they are not all the same. if a cell site overloads with too many simultaneous calls for that hardware it will start dropping some no matter what its signal strength. other nearby cell sites are supposed to and may be able to pick the call up - or not if they are too far away or too busy too. your examples of your two office locations demonstrate all this in action. lot of other calls are trying to roll off to the other nearby cell site too.
the last two years ATT has deployed software updates to its existing hardware to increase the capacity as best it could. and now it is installing a next generation of hardware that will greatly increase it. we'll see by the end of next year if that makes a big difference.
These type of things can change in a wiff. This is all about right now, not later. This is more about AT&T and Verizon, not Apple.
I firmly believe that this does nothing in preventing iPhone opening up to Verizon in the near future. In the next 18 to 36 months we will see iPhone on another carrier. It would just be stupid and business suicide for Apple not too.
Exactly 18-36 months is ways away, rumors were that exclusivity will end in 2010 in favor of verizon. Will that happen next year? Unlikely, at least not in the first half of the year. And if android takes off ATT can blackmail apple with dropping support or reducing subsidies if it shares exclusivity (switching to android entirely and leaving apple with tmobile or us cellular) which will force apple to extend exclusivity through 2010 and possibly untill some new iphone nano or iphone pro comes out in 2011 or 12. And that is lightyears away in tech world.
Obviously, the title of your autobiography…
Originally Posted by teckstud
Too much, too little, too late- the damage has been done.
Its funny that Apple had to step in and try to "stick up" for its partner but if i were them i would have stayed out of it completely, this is AT&Ts fight and they need to man up (although, i figured Apple must be concerned because if people say F AT&T and go to VZW then it directly affects them)
Oh, I'd nuke em. Verizon is actively trying to decrease iPhone sales. Whether it is a direct attack or by implication it doesn't matter. Apple should escalate the ad war as much as they are willing and able, as Verizon is actively trying to hurt Apple's bottom line.
Legitimately how many people use simultaneously voice and data? It really benefits most likely less than 1% of AT&T customers who use it on a regular basis. I use it sparingly (like once a month if that) and its usually not to do anything other than maybe check facebook or something lol.
Let's be real here, your not gonna be on a phone call and driving while trying to GPS or web surf. I cant think of any one situation where someone has called me and said "hey open up that email i sent you right now" without telling me what it was if it is something of importance.
Yeah, but this generally true of a lot of features on cell phones and such. We can argue what is more useful, but the usage cases in a lot of this feature comparisons only apply to less than 10%, probably less than 5%, of the population.
Droid does commercial:
Running widgets. Um, how many and how useful?
UI customization. How many and how useful?
Nightshots with the camera. How many and how useful?
Simultaneous apps. How many and how useful?
Real keyboard. Big difference compared to soft keyboard?
Open development. Irrelevant to the end customer. Hell, it's irrelevant to developers too.
Interchangeable batteries. How many and how useful?
Each and everyone one of these features are only truly useful to a small fraction to end customers on the same order as simultaneous voice and data. For some, it would be great. For others, it'll be something else. I can even include MMS and tethering in the mix. And the Droid Does commercial advantages aren't all that great either. It's also cute how they say "simultaneous apps" and not multitasking. The lawyers are good.
It's an ad war, so every little bit of leverage will be used to create an impression. Since it is advertising, it is 10% truth and 90% truth bending. You really shouldn't believe any of it.
Id rather have better 3G coverage on my Bold than have AT&T crying to Apple about being beat up by the Verizon Bully and making halfass ads to boot. Coverage > Simultaneous Voice/Data, and seeing as how you can't use it when you go out past city limits this is a real weak point here.
I think you are dreaming. No company will invest in infrastructure that isn't used. That is, upgrade rural areas to 3G over upgrading the populated areas to the next-gen. The rural areas will always be the last to get the tech. Densely populated areas will have HSPA/HSUPA and LTE before rural areas get HSDPA.
Also, there are hundreds of improvements I want to see in iPhone handsets too. It's too bad that only a few of them will be done.
Obviously, the title of your autobiography?
there are two separate phenomenon going on. the bars measuring signal strength tell you how close you are to the microcell site and how strong its broadcast power is. but they do not tell you the call/data capacity of that site, which is determined by its hardware. they are not all the same. if a cell site overloads with too many simultaneous calls for that hardware it will start dropping some no matter what its signal strength. other nearby cell sites are supposed to and may be able to pick the call up - or not if they are too far away or too busy too. your examples of your two office locations demonstrate all this in action. lot of other calls are trying to roll off to the other nearby cell site too.
the last two years ATT has deployed software updates to its existing hardware to increase the capacity as best it could. and now it is installing a next generation of hardware that will greatly increase it. we'll see by the end of next year if that makes a big difference.
Thank you for clearing that up. I have always wondered why the bars on the menu at times seemed to have no correlation to the call quality. Having said that, I don't have any problems in my area, nor do I when I travel to other metropolitan areas. For me, it just works.
Incidentally, I now do a soft reset at least once a month and a hard reset as well, particularly after installing/updating large iPhone apps.
It is obvious that dropped calls is a natural phenomena that has perplexed the wireless community from day one and nobody is immune from it.†**
I am wondering if those that have issues with calls being dropped on their iPhones if they cleared their iPhone, did a hard reset and tested their voice service before reinstalling their apps. Of course that would require that one has an iPhone in the first place. A criteria that can't be fulfilled by many commentators here.
Certainly there is evidence that Verizon has less issues with dropped calls that AT&T.† But it has more other issues if they were an iPhone carrier.
For those that think the Droid will address everything, it too is having problems with dropped calls.*** And on the Verizon network at that.
* http://www.madebymark.com/madebymark...he-iphone.html
† http://mobile.aol.com/articles/2009/...dropped-calls/
** http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Former-...lls/m-p/121019
*** https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/71748
P.S. @ mdriftmeyer and justflybob, thank you.