Yes, how could the Apple Store staff possibly handle the jump from 5 SKU's to 10? They'd probably need months of intense training for such a massive increase in available items.
More like a jump from 700 SKUs to 705. It may be shocking to some, but Apple Stores sell more than phones!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsad23
I do not think they would have approached anyone without the capable hardware ready.
I recall an interview with an ATT exec at the time the iPhone was released that ATT signed on sight-unseen. That even they didn't see the iPhone until mere weeks before it was unveiled. Whether Apple had a working prototype at the time is unknown, but it sounds like it wasn't demonstrated to ATT at the time the deal was struck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon
I don't know if a hardware upgrade is needed or just a software upgrade would make it work.
The updated spec to allow CDMA to support simultaneous voice/data was approved earlier this year. It requires an upgrade to the towers (and phones designed to support it), but according to the CDMA Development Group it's an "economical" upgrade.
Quote:
The next step would be to move to 1X Advanced, which is a simple channel card upgrade (expected to be commercial in the second half of 2010) with new devices supporting mobile receive diversity, enabling them to more than double voice capacity immediately after the channel upgrade.
A complementary device enhancement known as simultaneous 1X Voice and EV-DO Data (SVDO) will also become available during the same timeframe and will enable CDMA2000 devices to access EV-DO packet data services while in an active 1X circuit-switch voice call.
You know I have had this thought in the back of my mind several times in the past - good thinking. I think it is very possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
This is the most compelling rumour on this subject I've read and it still doesn't sound very likely. I think your statement makes the most sense, especially considering the lack of simultaneous voice and data.
Perhaps, but it seems no more likely to me than Verizon investing in expanded network capacity on the speculation that Apple might allow them to sell the iPhone some day. If this is what Verizon is saying publicly, then I don't believe the story, and I'm looking for another reason. The only alternative explanation I can think of is the tablet. Also, at this point, I can't see Apple wanting to put a whole new class of wireless devices on AT&T's already strained data network.
Verizon's network is yet to be tested. I believe that Verizon already knows that it will be years before they get the iPhone.....so this promise of being ready now is simply a smoke screen. What they promise today will never be proven to be true...it's a marketing response.
How can Verizon's network be 'ready' when they could only max out at 1.4Mb? At least AT&T has 3.2Mb and are going to 7.2Mb. AT&T can also offload some of their traffic to free wireless hot spots.
This comment was carefully crafted and timed to prevent some it's core users from defecting.
If VZW get's the iPhone and Has Rollover minutes , then I would consider it.
AT&T service is great in my area so dont care what happens with Verizon.
The is a crux of this argument in my mind. To me who your cell phone company it really depends on the coverage in your local area. That is why I wish their was no network exclusivity for cells phones at all. Hopefully Congress will get involved in this argument and help consumers for once.
Who would have one cell phone agreement with AT&T for iPhone and another with Verizon for Tablet. Apple wouldn't do that.
Why not?
Does Apple source all of their electronic components, hard disks, memory, etc. from a single vendor? Do they only license their music from one label? Movies from only one studio?
If there is a significant financial incentive to cut multiple carrier agreements, even with rivals, there's little reason not to.
Verizon has definitely been better at buiding out it's network than ATT. I'm sure they've taken this time to learn from ATT's failures.
I'm sure Verizon has taken this time instead to broaden their slow 3G coverage. Verizon is giving clear signals that it is incapable of handling the iPhone and it may be up to a year until its network can handle a significant fraction of the iPhone traffic. That's what Verizon has learned... along with what an incredible platform the iPhone is.
Telecommunications and CPUs aren't comparable markets.
Let me know when 4 major CPU makers are available for me to choose from for my Mac or PC.
What? It doesn't exist? Imagine that.
They aren't comparable at all --- but it makes the argument even worst.
It's Verizon that is spending billions of dollars on their cell phone networks --- vs --- Apple spending tens of dollars on a cell phone chip on each iphone.
And all the cell phone chips --- whether they be CDMA or GSM --- have an ARM core. Apple doesn't have to rewrite any of their codes to run on a Qualcomm chipset.
So I guess the Droid isn't challenging their network then? Is this a tacit admission that it's not the big deal that was hyped a month ago? (Just like the Palm Pre earlier in the year?)
Compared to the millions of iPhones on AT&T's network, Verizon should have an easy time supporting the few Druids sold. Verizon will never have trouble supporting the Druid, because a year from now, the Druid will probably still not be selling as fast as the iPhone and it will be obsolete with demand for it waning. LTE will be all the rage.
I still have doubts about Verizon getting the iPhone anytime soon because of their bad, negative, anti-iPhones ad, and their v-cast. I just believe Verizon is totally jealous of AT&T and the exclusiveity. I still have doubts about AT&T losing it's contrtact.(Well kinda.) But then again, I also have doubts about AT&T holding the iPhone this upcoming year. Sprint and T-Mobile are both higher pottentials, why? Because there are many many reasons, But it's all a matter of time before we find out what will happen with Apple 2010, I have feelings great things will happen.(Just not verizon at the moment.)
Verizon's network is yet to be tested. I believe that Verizon already knows that it will be years before they get the iPhone.....so this promise of being ready now is simply a smoke screen. What they promise today will never be proven to be true...it's a marketing response.
How can Verizon's network be 'ready' when they could only max out at 1.4Mb? At least AT&T has 3.2Mb and are going to 7.2Mb. AT&T can also offload some of their traffic to free wireless hot spots.
This comment was carefully crafted and timed to prevent some it's core users from defecting.
Like I've said all along, Verizon has been thanking their lucky stars that they didn't get the original exclusive agreement to carry the iPhone. They are more than glad for AT&T to take the heat for the issues created by the resultant unprecedented wireless data growth, issues Verizon still wouldn't be able to handle.
We really don't know how well Verizon will actually do.
We really don't know what will happen next week or even tomorrow on anything in life. However, based off how a company has performed in the past and today one can draw conclusions on how they will perform in the future. Past and current Verizon has performed relatively well with little to no major user or network complaints and has a reasonably good reputation. ATT based on their past and current has not performed very well and has a semi-bad reputation. With those two beliefs and facts one could guess and assume Verizon is best prepared to handle iPhone traffic better than ATT.
Is that fair enough for you to agree or do we need to call in Kreskin?
There are no technical or economic barriers to getting an iPhone on Verizon. The only thing preventing it from happening is the two companies agreeing to do it. Everything else is trivial.
Maybe, maybe not.
All reports seem to suggest that the iPhone is selling very well and Apple is just keeping up with demand. Based on that, I think it is highly unlikely that Apple would try and split production between different models of iPhones that work on different networks. Especially considering that CDMA is a US only, one carrier deal.
So that leaves the option of making one iPhone that would work on both networks. This is a possibility but I don't think Apple will do it. Apple is extremely cost conscious these days and a dual mode iPhone would be more expensive to produce. Even if some new chip is developed that can handle both networks, that chip will still be more expensive than a chip that just handles one. Not only to produce, but more expensive to engineer and support. Apple would incur that cost on every phone it makes not just the ones sold on Verizon's network. If they wait for LTE, such a phone would work on both AT&T and Verizon, plus others, once those networks are more deployed in 2011 or 2012.
But OK, lets say Apple is willing to make a dual mode phone to get iPhone on Verizon. Then we are back to the production issue. In all these rumors one thing I have not heard is one about Apple significantly increasing its iPhone production capability. If they do open up to Verizon, they will need to produce A LOT more phones. I am not convinced they can do this at this time.
The one wild card would be AT&T demand. If Apple thinks demand from AT&T is falling off or would fall off if the iPhone were available on Verizon. That might free up some production to handle the extra demand.
Finally, there is AT&T. If the iPhone is as important to AT&T as everyone thinks it is, they may be willing to cut Apple a very lucrative deal to keep the iPhone exclusive for another year.
Oh yeah, lets not forget about Steve Jobs hissy fits. The new Verizon ads not only attack AT&T but also the iPhone directly. I can't imagine that sits well with him and there have been several well documented cases (remember the ATI leak/Macworld debacle) where a vendor pissed off Steve and he took his anger out on them. As far as any cooling relations between AT&T and Apple go, don't believe it. That is careful PR on Apple's part because it directs customer frustration away from Apple and towards AT&T. This keeps the tribe happy with Apple which is very important to them.
I am guessing AT&T will keep their iPhone exclusivity until 2011. Possibly, 2012.
Remember folks.....it's not AT&T forcing this exclusivity.....it's Apple who is in charge. Apple can very well choose/add another carrier if they want to. All AT&T is doing is saying "yes". Imagine if they had said "no" like Verizon....the iPhone would not be here at all (or would be even dying more on Sprint's or T-Mobile's network).
Apple's going to make Verizon pay through the nose if they want the iPhone. It was only two weeks ago when Verizon attacked the iPhone as a "digitally clueless beauty queen."
Comments
That's the beauty of "journalism". They can speculate out their ass and declare themselves credible and ethical in their bs speculation.
there. fixed that for you.
Yes, how could the Apple Store staff possibly handle the jump from 5 SKU's to 10? They'd probably need months of intense training for such a massive increase in available items.
More like a jump from 700 SKUs to 705. It may be shocking to some, but Apple Stores sell more than phones!
I do not think they would have approached anyone without the capable hardware ready.
I recall an interview with an ATT exec at the time the iPhone was released that ATT signed on sight-unseen. That even they didn't see the iPhone until mere weeks before it was unveiled. Whether Apple had a working prototype at the time is unknown, but it sounds like it wasn't demonstrated to ATT at the time the deal was struck.
I don't know if a hardware upgrade is needed or just a software upgrade would make it work.
The updated spec to allow CDMA to support simultaneous voice/data was approved earlier this year. It requires an upgrade to the towers (and phones designed to support it), but according to the CDMA Development Group it's an "economical" upgrade.
The next step would be to move to 1X Advanced, which is a simple channel card upgrade (expected to be commercial in the second half of 2010) with new devices supporting mobile receive diversity, enabling them to more than double voice capacity immediately after the channel upgrade.
A complementary device enhancement known as simultaneous 1X Voice and EV-DO Data (SVDO) will also become available during the same timeframe and will enable CDMA2000 devices to access EV-DO packet data services while in an active 1X circuit-switch voice call.
http://www.cdg.org/news/press/2009/aug17_09.asp
You know I have had this thought in the back of my mind several times in the past - good thinking. I think it is very possible.
This is the most compelling rumour on this subject I've read and it still doesn't sound very likely. I think your statement makes the most sense, especially considering the lack of simultaneous voice and data.
Perhaps, but it seems no more likely to me than Verizon investing in expanded network capacity on the speculation that Apple might allow them to sell the iPhone some day. If this is what Verizon is saying publicly, then I don't believe the story, and I'm looking for another reason. The only alternative explanation I can think of is the tablet. Also, at this point, I can't see Apple wanting to put a whole new class of wireless devices on AT&T's already strained data network.
How can Verizon's network be 'ready' when they could only max out at 1.4Mb? At least AT&T has 3.2Mb and are going to 7.2Mb. AT&T can also offload some of their traffic to free wireless hot spots.
This comment was carefully crafted and timed to prevent some it's core users from defecting.
If VZW get's the iPhone and Has Rollover minutes , then I would consider it.
AT&T service is great in my area so dont care what happens with Verizon.
The is a crux of this argument in my mind. To me who your cell phone company it really depends on the coverage in your local area. That is why I wish their was no network exclusivity for cells phones at all. Hopefully Congress will get involved in this argument and help consumers for once.
Who would have one cell phone agreement with AT&T for iPhone and another with Verizon for Tablet. Apple wouldn't do that.
Why not?
Does Apple source all of their electronic components, hard disks, memory, etc. from a single vendor? Do they only license their music from one label? Movies from only one studio?
If there is a significant financial incentive to cut multiple carrier agreements, even with rivals, there's little reason not to.
Apple spent years blasting Intel in favor of ppc chips...now they are "foolishly" selling 3 mil. intel macs a quater
Telecommunications and CPUs aren't comparable markets.
Let me know when 4 major CPU makers are available for me to choose from for my Mac or PC.
What? It doesn't exist? Imagine that.
Telecommunications and CPUs aren't comparable markets.
Let me know when 4 major CPU makers are available for me to choose from for my Mac or PC.
What? It doesn't exist? Imagine that.
if i recall correctly, there were 4 major processor makers during the time period of the PPC chips
IBM/Apple/Motorola - PPC chip
AMD
Intel
Cyrix ( now VIA and they do not make CPUs anymore )
so really at one point, they were the same.
Verizon has definitely been better at buiding out it's network than ATT. I'm sure they've taken this time to learn from ATT's failures.
I'm sure Verizon has taken this time instead to broaden their slow 3G coverage. Verizon is giving clear signals that it is incapable of handling the iPhone and it may be up to a year until its network can handle a significant fraction of the iPhone traffic. That's what Verizon has learned... along with what an incredible platform the iPhone is.
Telecommunications and CPUs aren't comparable markets.
Let me know when 4 major CPU makers are available for me to choose from for my Mac or PC.
What? It doesn't exist? Imagine that.
They aren't comparable at all --- but it makes the argument even worst.
It's Verizon that is spending billions of dollars on their cell phone networks --- vs --- Apple spending tens of dollars on a cell phone chip on each iphone.
And all the cell phone chips --- whether they be CDMA or GSM --- have an ARM core. Apple doesn't have to rewrite any of their codes to run on a Qualcomm chipset.
So I guess the Droid isn't challenging their network then? Is this a tacit admission that it's not the big deal that was hyped a month ago? (Just like the Palm Pre earlier in the year?)
Compared to the millions of iPhones on AT&T's network, Verizon should have an easy time supporting the few Druids sold. Verizon will never have trouble supporting the Druid, because a year from now, the Druid will probably still not be selling as fast as the iPhone and it will be obsolete with demand for it waning. LTE will be all the rage.
Nothing we didn't already know: Verizon would be more than happy to carry the iPhone, but no idea what Apple's plans are.
What? The Verizon network isn't ready for the iPhone as-is? How could this be possible? I mean, so many post here said that it already was.
Verizon's network is yet to be tested. I believe that Verizon already knows that it will be years before they get the iPhone.....so this promise of being ready now is simply a smoke screen. What they promise today will never be proven to be true...it's a marketing response.
How can Verizon's network be 'ready' when they could only max out at 1.4Mb? At least AT&T has 3.2Mb and are going to 7.2Mb. AT&T can also offload some of their traffic to free wireless hot spots.
This comment was carefully crafted and timed to prevent some it's core users from defecting.
Like I've said all along, Verizon has been thanking their lucky stars that they didn't get the original exclusive agreement to carry the iPhone. They are more than glad for AT&T to take the heat for the issues created by the resultant unprecedented wireless data growth, issues Verizon still wouldn't be able to handle.
We really don't know how well Verizon will actually do.
We really don't know what will happen next week or even tomorrow on anything in life. However, based off how a company has performed in the past and today one can draw conclusions on how they will perform in the future. Past and current Verizon has performed relatively well with little to no major user or network complaints and has a reasonably good reputation. ATT based on their past and current has not performed very well and has a semi-bad reputation. With those two beliefs and facts one could guess and assume Verizon is best prepared to handle iPhone traffic better than ATT.
Is that fair enough for you to agree or do we need to call in Kreskin?
:td.
There are no technical or economic barriers to getting an iPhone on Verizon. The only thing preventing it from happening is the two companies agreeing to do it. Everything else is trivial.
Maybe, maybe not.
All reports seem to suggest that the iPhone is selling very well and Apple is just keeping up with demand. Based on that, I think it is highly unlikely that Apple would try and split production between different models of iPhones that work on different networks. Especially considering that CDMA is a US only, one carrier deal.
So that leaves the option of making one iPhone that would work on both networks. This is a possibility but I don't think Apple will do it. Apple is extremely cost conscious these days and a dual mode iPhone would be more expensive to produce. Even if some new chip is developed that can handle both networks, that chip will still be more expensive than a chip that just handles one. Not only to produce, but more expensive to engineer and support. Apple would incur that cost on every phone it makes not just the ones sold on Verizon's network. If they wait for LTE, such a phone would work on both AT&T and Verizon, plus others, once those networks are more deployed in 2011 or 2012.
But OK, lets say Apple is willing to make a dual mode phone to get iPhone on Verizon. Then we are back to the production issue. In all these rumors one thing I have not heard is one about Apple significantly increasing its iPhone production capability. If they do open up to Verizon, they will need to produce A LOT more phones. I am not convinced they can do this at this time.
The one wild card would be AT&T demand. If Apple thinks demand from AT&T is falling off or would fall off if the iPhone were available on Verizon. That might free up some production to handle the extra demand.
Finally, there is AT&T. If the iPhone is as important to AT&T as everyone thinks it is, they may be willing to cut Apple a very lucrative deal to keep the iPhone exclusive for another year.
Oh yeah, lets not forget about Steve Jobs hissy fits. The new Verizon ads not only attack AT&T but also the iPhone directly. I can't imagine that sits well with him and there have been several well documented cases (remember the ATI leak/Macworld debacle) where a vendor pissed off Steve and he took his anger out on them. As far as any cooling relations between AT&T and Apple go, don't believe it. That is careful PR on Apple's part because it directs customer frustration away from Apple and towards AT&T. This keeps the tribe happy with Apple which is very important to them.
I am guessing AT&T will keep their iPhone exclusivity until 2011. Possibly, 2012.
-kpluck