Customer Service is about collaboration. There are definitely unreasonable customers but there are also companies that think service is a waste of energy and resources.
After a few years of retail experience, and before that a bit of event management experience, I believe the solution is collaboration.
The company presents what it can do, not to pander, not to patronise, not to blindly offer discounts and appeasements, but collaborate with the customer on what the customer can also do to solve the problem.
The customer is not always right, but deserves to be treated right.
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but some companies out there definitely prove it can be worthwhile and profitable to have the appropriate level of customer service. That is, not nonchalant or dismissive, nor heavily script-based and desperate to please at any cost.
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is.
Superb observations. Google should pay attention to this.
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.
iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.
When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.
I agree. I have been making fun of a friend who paid $2500 for a Mac Plus 24 years ago.
Me, I am still waiting to buy a computer but every time a new one comes out, I know sure as hell it will look stupid next to next year's model for the price.
If a version 2 does not appear all that says to me is:
They were able to fix the flaws with software updates (meaning the v1 is now the v2).
The product was not good enough to warrant fixing those flaws and releasing a version 2. Hooray, we've saved ourselves money by not being one of those suckers.
Model T Ford, Flyer I (1903 Flyer i.e the Kitty Hawk), ENIAC.
I'm glad people and organisations adopted these "version ones" otherwise there'd be
no Ford Mustangs, Boeing 747s and Apple Macintoshes today.
There's no progress without early adopters; if Charles Babbage's Difference Engine had been adopted mechanical computing would have started in the 19th century not 20th century.
I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
Excuse my Schadenfreude but... how many of those buying a Google phone thought they were getting the same kind of phone as an Apple iPhone or Windows device, only without the big company persona behind the purchase? When you cut out the support, is it any wonder that you get none?
Excuse my Schadenfreude but... how many of those buying a Google phone thought they were getting the same kind of phone as an Apple iPhone or Windows device, only without the big company persona behind the purchase? When you cut out the support, is it any wonder that you get none?
Money and big market caps do not a great user experience make.
I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
\
The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.
Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.
In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF
The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.
Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.
In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF
Try following this disgustingly fanboy biased forum for a year and see how smart you feel then.
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and
You've gotten to the heart of the matter. Excellent post.
Most tech companies sell a product (commodity) to you the customer. They want to make the best products so that you will want to buy it.
Google, on the other hand, wants to sells you and your personal data to their advertiser and clients. For Google, you are a commodity.
That is why their software and hardware are only just good enough and cheap, because all they care about is getting you to their trough whatever way they can, to fatten you up, to sell you down the road. Is it a wonder that they did not think how they would address customer complaints? Customer satisfaction is not part of the business model.
Think of the Matrix. Think of Soylent Green.
"Soylent Green is people! We've got to stop them somehow!"
You are absolutely correct and have put it very nicely.
This is the whole problem with the Freetard universe -nothing is really free.
I would far rather pay a straight-up, market determined fair price for goods and services than get something for 'free' in exchange for hidden costs that I the consumer don't understand.
This is why I will never touch gmail, google docs, etc.
Google is quickly becoming the new evil. Too bad they didn't just stick to being a search engine.
And this is exactly what is most wrong with Android. The Microsoft business model is terrible for consumers and has been a tragedy for the computer industry. The main reason I stick with Apple when given a choice is because they are the last of the computer companies that actually takes responsibility for a complete computer system. As a consumer I do not want to be a system integrator, I want to buy a complete product that does what I want. The MS approach of being responsible only for the software and just pushing it out to run on commoditized hardware is bad for innovation of the complete system and terrible for customer support.
The MS, Google, Linux, etc. approach to computer systems is really best for people who want tools that they can play with, not tools that they can use.
This is even more true in tightly integrated devices like the smartphone segment of the market. Google is obviously trying to become the MS of this new market segment, whereas Apple is obviously trying to do a better job of competing with the vertically integrated business model than they did in the post IBM PC clone years.
We the customers will be far better off if Apple's approach succeeds. While it is critical that there be meaningful competition in the smartphone market (and there certainly is with the likes of RIM), I sure do hope Android fails miserably and quickly - we will all be better off for it.
There seems to me to be two kind of innovation. Incremental - gradually improving on existing solutions, and paradigmatic - fundamentally changing the rules of the game. Apple is no better than the rest of the pack at the first - or are they (i will return to that), but they shure are ahead of them at the latter. Every few years, Appel changes the rules of the game, and every one else plays catchup. So when you and others say that Apple needs competion in order to innovate, you are really saying (or so I understand it) that they should follow the others in incremental innovation.
And true, once Apple has introduced a new paradigm, the stubornly - and rather conservatively, stick to it. But is that so bad? Consumers appear to think it is not! (a few poster here seem to think that is beacuse they are all being fooled - by the millions, year after year ... speaks for itself I guess). Apples conservative minnimalism and theire insistence on not doing anything they cant do really, really well can indeed be frustrating sometimes. But gennerally (with the occasional cockup), I believe we end up with an overall better product because of it. So, I hope Apple keeps its cool - as they usually do - and avoid the race to pile technology on tehcnology and functionality on functionality where it really dosen´t make any great practical difference and does not improve the product in any significant way.
One of the best "first posts" to a forum that I have ever read...
Unfortunately, it is OT (but necessary)-- as others have hijacked this thread about google support for nexus 1.
Obviously not smart enough to quit while I'm ahead! But it's pretty thin at this point, you understand that, don't you?
I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.
I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.
We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.
A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.
If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.
It's more than annoying.
Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.
We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.
I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.
It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.
The argument is ridiculous either way, since it's so well known that better and cheaper technology always comes along. The only course a "wise" consumer can take is to bang rocks together. Nobody will ever improve on that, or make it less expensive.
...but it [banging rocks together] sure makes the camel drink the water!
I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.
I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.
We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.
A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.
If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.
It's more than annoying.
Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.
We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.
I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.
It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.
I'm very willing and eager eager to partake in healthy discussions regarding all things Apple. I'm not here to badger or troll, though I'll admit I occasoinally do so to temper the incessant anti-'everything that isn't Apple' sentiments posted here on a daily basis. That sort of behavior can't always be ignored and for me has reached it's boiling point as of late. Moreover, it detracts AS MUCH as trolling from healthy, informative discourse. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing but by in large, that's not what this site is about, rather, an idealistic view of how we both wish it was. Regardless, that's my peace and I'll leave it at that. I appreciate and respect your pov.
Comments
After a few years of retail experience, and before that a bit of event management experience, I believe the solution is collaboration.
The company presents what it can do, not to pander, not to patronise, not to blindly offer discounts and appeasements, but collaborate with the customer on what the customer can also do to solve the problem.
The customer is not always right, but deserves to be treated right.
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but some companies out there definitely prove it can be worthwhile and profitable to have the appropriate level of customer service. That is, not nonchalant or dismissive, nor heavily script-based and desperate to please at any cost.
A few questions:
1. Who the hell are these people who already bought the stupid Google Phone? (GEEKS)
2. How are these (GEEKS) not able to use the damn thing?
3. <snip>
1. Early adopters and geeks
2. Because this shows really how bad the product is and how uncoordinated the support is?
I
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is.
Superb observations. Google should pay attention to this.
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.
iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.
When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.
I agree. I have been making fun of a friend who paid $2500 for a Mac Plus 24 years ago.
Me, I am still waiting to buy a computer but every time a new one comes out, I know sure as hell it will look stupid next to next year's model for the price.
If a version 2 does not appear all that says to me is:
Model T Ford, Flyer I (1903 Flyer i.e the Kitty Hawk), ENIAC.
I'm glad people and organisations adopted these "version ones" otherwise there'd be
no Ford Mustangs, Boeing 747s and Apple Macintoshes today.
There's no progress without early adopters; if Charles Babbage's Difference Engine had been adopted mechanical computing would have started in the 19th century not 20th century.
I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
Excuse my Schadenfreude but... how many of those buying a Google phone thought they were getting the same kind of phone as an Apple iPhone or Windows device, only without the big company persona behind the purchase? When you cut out the support, is it any wonder that you get none?
Money and big market caps do not a great user experience make.
I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.
Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.
In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF
The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.
Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.
In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF
Try following this disgustingly fanboy biased forum for a year and see how smart you feel then.
Try following this disgustingly fanboy biased forum for a year and see how smart you feel then.
Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and
You've gotten to the heart of the matter. Excellent post.
Most tech companies sell a product (commodity) to you the customer. They want to make the best products so that you will want to buy it.
Google, on the other hand, wants to sells you and your personal data to their advertiser and clients. For Google, you are a commodity.
That is why their software and hardware are only just good enough and cheap, because all they care about is getting you to their trough whatever way they can, to fatten you up, to sell you down the road. Is it a wonder that they did not think how they would address customer complaints? Customer satisfaction is not part of the business model.
Think of the Matrix. Think of Soylent Green.
"Soylent Green is people! We've got to stop them somehow!"
You are absolutely correct and have put it very nicely.
This is the whole problem with the Freetard universe -nothing is really free.
I would far rather pay a straight-up, market determined fair price for goods and services than get something for 'free' in exchange for hidden costs that I the consumer don't understand.
This is why I will never touch gmail, google docs, etc.
Google is quickly becoming the new evil. Too bad they didn't just stick to being a search engine.
TANSTAAFL!
The MS, Google, Linux, etc. approach to computer systems is really best for people who want tools that they can play with, not tools that they can use.
This is even more true in tightly integrated devices like the smartphone segment of the market. Google is obviously trying to become the MS of this new market segment, whereas Apple is obviously trying to do a better job of competing with the vertically integrated business model than they did in the post IBM PC clone years.
We the customers will be far better off if Apple's approach succeeds. While it is critical that there be meaningful competition in the smartphone market (and there certainly is with the likes of RIM), I sure do hope Android fails miserably and quickly - we will all be better off for it.
Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?
Ouch.
Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?
Obviously not smart enough to quit while I'm ahead!
Ouch.
Anant!
There seems to me to be two kind of innovation. Incremental - gradually improving on existing solutions, and paradigmatic - fundamentally changing the rules of the game. Apple is no better than the rest of the pack at the first - or are they (i will return to that), but they shure are ahead of them at the latter. Every few years, Appel changes the rules of the game, and every one else plays catchup. So when you and others say that Apple needs competion in order to innovate, you are really saying (or so I understand it) that they should follow the others in incremental innovation.
And true, once Apple has introduced a new paradigm, the stubornly - and rather conservatively, stick to it. But is that so bad? Consumers appear to think it is not! (a few poster here seem to think that is beacuse they are all being fooled - by the millions, year after year ... speaks for itself I guess). Apples conservative minnimalism and theire insistence on not doing anything they cant do really, really well can indeed be frustrating sometimes. But gennerally (with the occasional cockup), I believe we end up with an overall better product because of it. So, I hope Apple keeps its cool - as they usually do - and avoid the race to pile technology on tehcnology and functionality on functionality where it really dosen´t make any great practical difference and does not improve the product in any significant way.
One of the best "first posts" to a forum that I have ever read...
Unfortunately, it is OT (but necessary)-- as others have hijacked this thread about google support for nexus 1.
*
Obviously not smart enough to quit while I'm ahead!
I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.
I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.
We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.
A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.
If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.
It's more than annoying.
Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.
We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.
I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.
It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.
The argument is ridiculous either way, since it's so well known that better and cheaper technology always comes along. The only course a "wise" consumer can take is to bang rocks together. Nobody will ever improve on that, or make it less expensive.
...but it [banging rocks together] sure makes the camel drink the water!
I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.
I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.
We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.
A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.
If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.
It's more than annoying.
Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.
We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.
I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.
It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.
I'm very willing and eager eager to partake in healthy discussions regarding all things Apple. I'm not here to badger or troll, though I'll admit I occasoinally do so to temper the incessant anti-'everything that isn't Apple' sentiments posted here on a daily basis. That sort of behavior can't always be ignored and for me has reached it's boiling point as of late. Moreover, it detracts AS MUCH as trolling from healthy, informative discourse. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing but by in large, that's not what this site is about, rather, an idealistic view of how we both wish it was. Regardless, that's my peace and I'll leave it at that. I appreciate and respect your pov.