I hear you. I think the swipe gesture on the magic mouse is really awkward. I'm just saying that we think of everything as point and click because that's how we've been doing things for the past 25 years. But it's such a blunt instrument. It's one dimensional. You're basically trying to do everything by poking things with a stick. And the entire past 25 years of computer interfaces have been based on that limited interaction method. With gestures, the entire interface and how we interact with a machine can be rethought in ways we are probably only now starting to understand with the iPhone. Maybe the app launching example was not a good example. That's a pretty simple task. I'm just saying... wait and see. And keep an open mind. There will always be a place for point and click I'm sure. But things are changing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
I think there will be a combination of interaction methods, and different levels as there are now on MacBooks and the TrackPad (you can turn on and off various options and gestures as they suit you).
I'm also sure that Apple will do the GUI pretty well.
-----
The iPhone can do basic video editing (especially with ReelDirector), so the tablet will certainly ship with some kind of video app.
iWork will need some kind of video out...
Don't misunderstand me, I think multi-touch gestures are great. And I don't think that new interactions based on them need be particularly difficult to learn; after all, swiping across multiple choices is relatively new thing, but it's so natural and intuitive no one worries about the "learning curve." As long as touch gestures make sense (flicking, flipping, rotating, pinching, etc.) in that they have real world analogs, I think it makes computer interactions easier than the traditional mouse and keyboard model.
I'm just saying that for something as prosaic as opening an application, "three fingers downward and rotate" is insane. I also think that if Apple's UI for a slate has a lot of gestural equivalents of "option/shift/tab", that is, nearly arbitrary actions that are mapped to a vast array of commands, then that slate will fail miserably.
However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.
However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.
Ditto.
edit: Thinking about it, it may depend on where the swipe would be located. On the front, then no, but if on the back then “three fingers down and rotate" is the only natural natural thing you can do with three fingers while holding a 10 device weighing under 2lbs.. As you pull all three fingers down they naturally will pull in. To get a better idea of what the hell I’m talking about, put your hands on the back of your notebook monitor while holding the sides. As much I still don’t think that is what will happen that motion does feel natural. Perhaps we’re not thinking outside the box enough.
4.) new relationships with U.S. telecom companies.
Maybe, maybe not. They might just opt out of a carrier-subsidized tablet for this round. If you have a USB cellular modem, you could plug it into a port and get connectivity that way (Bring Your Own Network).
Again, Verizon's CDMA technology is a dead-end. T-Mobile USA's 3G frequencies are incompatible with the 3G frequencies for the rest of the world. There is no indication that Apple is acquiring worldmode CDMA-3G chips for the phantom tablet.
We'll see, but in any case, the tablet would have a data-only plan so the cellular data provider might be less newsworthy.
Yeah, but Apple doesn't really 'do' multiple accessory ports. If we're lucky, it'll have a flip-down door like the Macbook Air with a USB and mini Displayport, and maybe an SD slot if The Steve is feeling really generous.
I dunno about that.
My old 12" PowerBook G4 had power, Ethernet, modem, FireWire, two USBs, mini-DVI, audio, and the Kensington security port. Not much bigger than the proposed 10" tablet. A similar set of ports graces my three-year-old 13.1" MacBook.
The limiting factor of the MacBook Air is thickness, not width or length. That's why it had a flip-down door. Plus, there's a keyboard on the MacBook Air's base. You have limited places where you can stick the ports. On a rectangular tablet of equal thickness and no physical keyboard, you have options on where you can place external ports.
Maybe, maybe not. They might just opt out of a carrier-subsidized tablet for this round. If you have a USB cellular modem, you could plug it into a port and get connectivity that way (Bring Your Own Network).
Again, Verizon's CDMA technology is a dead-end. T-Mobile USA's 3G frequencies are incompatible with the 3G frequencies for the rest of the world. There is no indication that Apple is acquiring worldmode CDMA-3G chips for the phantom tablet.
We'll see, but in any case, the tablet would have a data-only plan so the cellular data provider might be less newsworthy.
I can?t see Apple telling customers to plug in a USB data card and I think that not having 3G would make this DOA for many potential users. But requiring a data plan would make it DOA for the other half.
Perhaps the best solution is something like the Kindle where the 3G data cards are inside and the device comes at a full price with access to the store for purchases and updates, but you can unlock internet and app data by getting a data plan from your carrier. This would mean that they, too, could sell it at a subsidized price for those willing to get a data contract. Since space isn?t as limited adding the chips for both AT&T and T-Mobile USA 3G frequencies isn?t a big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
I dunno about that.
My old 12" PowerBook G4 had power, Ethernet, modem, FireWire, two USBs, mini-DVI, audio, and the Kensington security port. Not much bigger than the proposed 10" tablet. A similar set of ports graces my three-year-old 13.1" MacBook.
The limiting factor of the MacBook Air is thickness, not width or length. That's why it had a flip-down door.
Your Powerbook is a notebook, though, not a tablet. It?s going to be 1.2? thick over 3lbs. I think port access is going to be minimal and be very thin.
I think that it will sync through iTunes but may likely have a Finder-like access with home networks so that you can move files. You can already add music, movies, TV shows and apps to the device and have them transfer to iTunes later so it wouldn?t be tough for Apple to give you an option to add them to the tablet?s iTunes player from the tablet?s Finder app.
Apple's current filesystem on the Mac is in need of a rethink anyway. I mean... we really have a "music filesystem" offered by iTunes (hiding the underlying filesystem), a "photo filesystem" offered by iPhoto, documents in the regular file system, 2 "movie" filesystems (regular Movies folder, and iTunes)
Quote:
I have way too many GB in my home folder to make that feasible. I?d wager that most people are in the same boat.
You misunderstand me.
Say you have 1TB in your home folder - why not have a synced subset of your music, photos, documents, on your MacBook Air (for example)? An independent subset of your data on your iSlate?
The amount of data on any device is necessarily limited by the size of the device - but it might have access to the larger data set via the network or "Back to My Mac". I'd even like to allow a sync between a smaller MacBook and iSlate if my (imaginary for me) 1TB Mac isn't around.
Like with the iPhone and Touch, you make it more intelligent when figuring out input methods. There may also be some learning involved so people don’t directly touch the display unless they want to access something but I haven’t had much of a problem with that on the iPhone to date.
Or they could add a bio reader that only allows the user to integrate with device. Or perhaps use a fiber-optic LightPeak sex organ that the Na’Vi in Avatar use to connect connect with the flora and fauna. It could happen.
Joking aside; I was responding to someones suggestion that it would be "surprising" for there to be "complex" gestures for initiating an action where a simple "tap" with a finger might suffice.
The thing is; indications seem to be that this is going to be a device too large for "palming", and therefor will be held like a clipboard would be.
If I hand the device to my secretary, I don't want my thumb to launch an icon in the process, nor have him inadvertently launch or drag something around just while he is carrying or otherwise handling it.
All that said; I would expect this device to be as simple to control as absolutely humanly possible.
Your Powerbook is a notebook, though, not a tablet. It?s going to be 1.2? thick over 3lbs. I think port access is going to be minimal and be very thin.
Whether it be my old PowerBook or my current MacBook, the ports are on one half. The bottom half of the current unibody MacBook Pro is what I imaging the thickness of the phantom tablet to be, maybe as thick as the current iPhone (0.48 in.).
It's not going to be as thin as my iPod touch (0.33 in.).
I wonder how they?ll do multiple apps on this device. I can?t see there being a typical background with files and drives listed and being able to open multiple apps in the same space. How about the cube effect like when switching users in Mac OS X? Too slow? Too flashy?
All that said; I would expect this device to be as simple to control as absolutely humanly possible.
That is Apple from my perspective.
Absolutely spot on.
All this discussion of complex multitouch gestures and learning curves is B.S. That's the antithesis of Apple's M.O.
There are plenty of posts about how learning a "third operating system" (after iPhone OS and Mac OS X) would be ponderous. How difficult was iPhone OS to learn? I bought the original iPod touch about two year ago, and it didn't take me that long to learn. As a matter of fact, if the learning curve for the iPhone OS was that difficult, the device would not have enjoyed the blockbuster 2.5 year growth.
Again, these Apple rumor sites continue to prove the fact that many forum commenters have almost no touch with reality in terms of predicting future consumer electronics products.
All this discussion of complex multitouch gestures and learning curves is B.S. That's the antithesis of Apple's M.O.
I think it will be natural but check out the System Preferences » Trackpad for, at least, buttonless MB and MBPs. In all faireness, Apple did add video to the menu to show to use all the gestures.
Not necessarily, yes, but why would someone prefer iPhone OS over Mac OS on a 10" tablet?
Lower cost for the same "snappiness" (due to lower software overhead)
Increased snappiness for the same specs
Thinner (important to Apple at least)
Longer battery life for same "snappiness" (due to lower software overhead)
An OS that is designed for touchscreen rather than one that's designed for mouse
Mac OS X and its apps don't work well with small display sizes and resolutions, while iPhone OS does, especially an "extended" version
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac
To counter your signature, putting iPhone OS on a 10" tablet is like building a skyscraper just to run a candy shop.
A terrible waste of hardware.
What hardware? MacBook-level hardware? No, it's likely to be somewhere between iPhone / iPod touch and MacBook, which is good for "extended"/"full-screen" apps but it's not enough to run Mac OS X and its apps well.
I've always predicted iPhone OS "extended" anyway, and with the full-screen apps that would be a skyscraper to run a very large candy shop.
I think that it will sync through iTunes but may likely have a Finder-like access with home networks so that you can move files. You can already add music, movies, TV shows and apps to the device and have them transfer to iTunes later so it wouldn’t be tough for Apple to give you an option to add them to the tablet’s iTunes player from the tablet’s Finder app.
Why wouldn't this thing just come with iTunes? Most of us would agree that iTunes is in need of a rewrite so why not just start with a touch based version? To me this should be a device that an iPhone can sync to and not a device that has to constantly sync to your Mac.
Since over 60% of Macs purchased are laptops, it would mean that most Mac users would be syncing their 10" tablet to their 13"-15" Macbook/Pro. It would look very odd.
I think the rumor is interesting, but surely there's a better example of a potential gesture vocabulary than "three fingers down and rotate to open an application"?
I mean, how about touching an icon?
Take look at some parts of old FingerWorks Manuals
Why wouldn't this thing just come with iTunes? Most of us would agree that iTunes is in need of a rewrite so why not just start with a touch based version? To me this should be a device that an iPhone can sync to and not a device that has to constantly sync to your Mac.
Since over 60% of Macs purchased are laptops, it would mean that most Mac users would be syncing their 10" tablet to their 13"-15" Macbook/Pro. It would look very odd.
Maybe, but this seems like an accessory device not your main PC so Apple will have to tackle the confusing dual iTunes Libraries issue. Surelydevicewon't capacity won't be so large ad to be able to handle most people's iTunes Library. I put a fraction of min on my 32GB iPhone and I'm fine with that.
I do see a place for a iTunes-like app that is a cross-between the read-only libraries we find on iDevices and iTunes on PCs but I think it will still be slaved to our master library.
Just because I think it will be an accesory device like all the iDevices doesn't mean I think it will require being plugged into a PC to sync. This is a different device type that isn't pocketable and possibly will be used in a general area or general way or most people. Perhaps Apple will allow OTA content syncing with this device. What makes since on a tablet any neccessarily going to make sense for a PMP or phone, and vice versa.
Comments
I hear you. I think the swipe gesture on the magic mouse is really awkward. I'm just saying that we think of everything as point and click because that's how we've been doing things for the past 25 years. But it's such a blunt instrument. It's one dimensional. You're basically trying to do everything by poking things with a stick. And the entire past 25 years of computer interfaces have been based on that limited interaction method. With gestures, the entire interface and how we interact with a machine can be rethought in ways we are probably only now starting to understand with the iPhone. Maybe the app launching example was not a good example. That's a pretty simple task. I'm just saying... wait and see. And keep an open mind. There will always be a place for point and click I'm sure. But things are changing.
I think there will be a combination of interaction methods, and different levels as there are now on MacBooks and the TrackPad (you can turn on and off various options and gestures as they suit you).
I'm also sure that Apple will do the GUI pretty well.
-----
The iPhone can do basic video editing (especially with ReelDirector), so the tablet will certainly ship with some kind of video app.
iWork will need some kind of video out...
Don't misunderstand me, I think multi-touch gestures are great. And I don't think that new interactions based on them need be particularly difficult to learn; after all, swiping across multiple choices is relatively new thing, but it's so natural and intuitive no one worries about the "learning curve." As long as touch gestures make sense (flicking, flipping, rotating, pinching, etc.) in that they have real world analogs, I think it makes computer interactions easier than the traditional mouse and keyboard model.
I'm just saying that for something as prosaic as opening an application, "three fingers downward and rotate" is insane. I also think that if Apple's UI for a slate has a lot of gestural equivalents of "option/shift/tab", that is, nearly arbitrary actions that are mapped to a vast array of commands, then that slate will fail miserably.
However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.
However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.
Ditto.
edit: Thinking about it, it may depend on where the swipe would be located. On the front, then no, but if on the back then “three fingers down and rotate" is the only natural natural thing you can do with three fingers while holding a 10 device weighing under 2lbs.. As you pull all three fingers down they naturally will pull in. To get a better idea of what the hell I’m talking about, put your hands on the back of your notebook monitor while holding the sides. As much I still don’t think that is what will happen that motion does feel natural. Perhaps we’re not thinking outside the box enough.
4.) new relationships with U.S. telecom companies.
Maybe, maybe not. They might just opt out of a carrier-subsidized tablet for this round. If you have a USB cellular modem, you could plug it into a port and get connectivity that way (Bring Your Own Network).
Again, Verizon's CDMA technology is a dead-end. T-Mobile USA's 3G frequencies are incompatible with the 3G frequencies for the rest of the world. There is no indication that Apple is acquiring worldmode CDMA-3G chips for the phantom tablet.
We'll see, but in any case, the tablet would have a data-only plan so the cellular data provider might be less newsworthy.
Yeah, but Apple doesn't really 'do' multiple accessory ports. If we're lucky, it'll have a flip-down door like the Macbook Air with a USB and mini Displayport, and maybe an SD slot if The Steve is feeling really generous.
I dunno about that.
My old 12" PowerBook G4 had power, Ethernet, modem, FireWire, two USBs, mini-DVI, audio, and the Kensington security port. Not much bigger than the proposed 10" tablet. A similar set of ports graces my three-year-old 13.1" MacBook.
The limiting factor of the MacBook Air is thickness, not width or length. That's why it had a flip-down door. Plus, there's a keyboard on the MacBook Air's base. You have limited places where you can stick the ports. On a rectangular tablet of equal thickness and no physical keyboard, you have options on where you can place external ports.
Maybe, maybe not. They might just opt out of a carrier-subsidized tablet for this round. If you have a USB cellular modem, you could plug it into a port and get connectivity that way (Bring Your Own Network).
Again, Verizon's CDMA technology is a dead-end. T-Mobile USA's 3G frequencies are incompatible with the 3G frequencies for the rest of the world. There is no indication that Apple is acquiring worldmode CDMA-3G chips for the phantom tablet.
We'll see, but in any case, the tablet would have a data-only plan so the cellular data provider might be less newsworthy.
I can?t see Apple telling customers to plug in a USB data card and I think that not having 3G would make this DOA for many potential users. But requiring a data plan would make it DOA for the other half.
Perhaps the best solution is something like the Kindle where the 3G data cards are inside and the device comes at a full price with access to the store for purchases and updates, but you can unlock internet and app data by getting a data plan from your carrier. This would mean that they, too, could sell it at a subsidized price for those willing to get a data contract. Since space isn?t as limited adding the chips for both AT&T and T-Mobile USA 3G frequencies isn?t a big deal.
I dunno about that.
My old 12" PowerBook G4 had power, Ethernet, modem, FireWire, two USBs, mini-DVI, audio, and the Kensington security port. Not much bigger than the proposed 10" tablet. A similar set of ports graces my three-year-old 13.1" MacBook.
The limiting factor of the MacBook Air is thickness, not width or length. That's why it had a flip-down door.
Your Powerbook is a notebook, though, not a tablet. It?s going to be 1.2? thick over 3lbs. I think port access is going to be minimal and be very thin.
I think that it will sync through iTunes but may likely have a Finder-like access with home networks so that you can move files. You can already add music, movies, TV shows and apps to the device and have them transfer to iTunes later so it wouldn?t be tough for Apple to give you an option to add them to the tablet?s iTunes player from the tablet?s Finder app.
Apple's current filesystem on the Mac is in need of a rethink anyway. I mean... we really have a "music filesystem" offered by iTunes (hiding the underlying filesystem), a "photo filesystem" offered by iPhoto, documents in the regular file system, 2 "movie" filesystems (regular Movies folder, and iTunes)
I have way too many GB in my home folder to make that feasible. I?d wager that most people are in the same boat.
You misunderstand me.
Say you have 1TB in your home folder - why not have a synced subset of your music, photos, documents, on your MacBook Air (for example)? An independent subset of your data on your iSlate?
The amount of data on any device is necessarily limited by the size of the device - but it might have access to the larger data set via the network or "Back to My Mac". I'd even like to allow a sync between a smaller MacBook and iSlate if my (imaginary for me) 1TB Mac isn't around.
Like with the iPhone and Touch, you make it more intelligent when figuring out input methods. There may also be some learning involved so people don’t directly touch the display unless they want to access something but I haven’t had much of a problem with that on the iPhone to date.
Or they could add a bio reader that only allows the user to integrate with device. Or perhaps use a fiber-optic LightPeak sex organ that the Na’Vi in Avatar use to connect connect with the flora and fauna. It could happen.
The thing is; indications seem to be that this is going to be a device too large for "palming", and therefor will be held like a clipboard would be.
If I hand the device to my secretary, I don't want my thumb to launch an icon in the process, nor have him inadvertently launch or drag something around just while he is carrying or otherwise handling it.
All that said; I would expect this device to be as simple to control as absolutely humanly possible.
That is Apple from my perspective.
Your Powerbook is a notebook, though, not a tablet. It?s going to be 1.2? thick over 3lbs. I think port access is going to be minimal and be very thin.
Whether it be my old PowerBook or my current MacBook, the ports are on one half. The bottom half of the current unibody MacBook Pro is what I imaging the thickness of the phantom tablet to be, maybe as thick as the current iPhone (0.48 in.).
It's not going to be as thin as my iPod touch (0.33 in.).
All that said; I would expect this device to be as simple to control as absolutely humanly possible.
That is Apple from my perspective.
Absolutely spot on.
All this discussion of complex multitouch gestures and learning curves is B.S. That's the antithesis of Apple's M.O.
There are plenty of posts about how learning a "third operating system" (after iPhone OS and Mac OS X) would be ponderous. How difficult was iPhone OS to learn? I bought the original iPod touch about two year ago, and it didn't take me that long to learn. As a matter of fact, if the learning curve for the iPhone OS was that difficult, the device would not have enjoyed the blockbuster 2.5 year growth.
Again, these Apple rumor sites continue to prove the fact that many forum commenters have almost no touch with reality in terms of predicting future consumer electronics products.
All this discussion of complex multitouch gestures and learning curves is B.S. That's the antithesis of Apple's M.O.
I think it will be natural but check out the System Preferences » Trackpad for, at least, buttonless MB and MBPs. In all faireness, Apple did add video to the menu to show to use all the gestures.
Mac touch FTW?
OK, so what would that involve, exactly?
Not necessarily, yes, but why would someone prefer iPhone OS over Mac OS on a 10" tablet?
To counter your signature, putting iPhone OS on a 10" tablet is like building a skyscraper just to run a candy shop.
A terrible waste of hardware.
What hardware? MacBook-level hardware? No, it's likely to be somewhere between iPhone / iPod touch and MacBook, which is good for "extended"/"full-screen" apps but it's not enough to run Mac OS X and its apps well.
I've always predicted iPhone OS "extended" anyway, and with the full-screen apps that would be a skyscraper to run a very large candy shop.
OK, so what would that involve, exactly?
Not quite sure what the question is.
I think that it will sync through iTunes but may likely have a Finder-like access with home networks so that you can move files. You can already add music, movies, TV shows and apps to the device and have them transfer to iTunes later so it wouldn’t be tough for Apple to give you an option to add them to the tablet’s iTunes player from the tablet’s Finder app.
Why wouldn't this thing just come with iTunes? Most of us would agree that iTunes is in need of a rewrite so why not just start with a touch based version? To me this should be a device that an iPhone can sync to and not a device that has to constantly sync to your Mac.
Since over 60% of Macs purchased are laptops, it would mean that most Mac users would be syncing their 10" tablet to their 13"-15" Macbook/Pro. It would look very odd.
I think the rumor is interesting, but surely there's a better example of a potential gesture vocabulary than "three fingers down and rotate to open an application"?
I mean, how about touching an icon?
Take look at some parts of old FingerWorks Manuals
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&client=safari
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&client=safari
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&client=safari
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&client=safari
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...&client=safari
Time will tell.
Putting Mac OS X on this tablet would be foolish. Putting Mac OS X touch on this tablet would be revolutionary.
Right. So what is "Mac OS X Touch?"
Why wouldn't this thing just come with iTunes? Most of us would agree that iTunes is in need of a rewrite so why not just start with a touch based version? To me this should be a device that an iPhone can sync to and not a device that has to constantly sync to your Mac.
Since over 60% of Macs purchased are laptops, it would mean that most Mac users would be syncing their 10" tablet to their 13"-15" Macbook/Pro. It would look very odd.
Maybe, but this seems like an accessory device not your main PC so Apple will have to tackle the confusing dual iTunes Libraries issue. Surelydevicewon't capacity won't be so large ad to be able to handle most people's iTunes Library. I put a fraction of min on my 32GB iPhone and I'm fine with that.
I do see a place for a iTunes-like app that is a cross-between the read-only libraries we find on iDevices and iTunes on PCs but I think it will still be slaved to our master library.
Just because I think it will be an accesory device like all the iDevices doesn't mean I think it will require being plugged into a PC to sync. This is a different device type that isn't pocketable and possibly will be used in a general area or general way or most people. Perhaps Apple will allow OTA content syncing with this device. What makes since on a tablet any neccessarily going to make sense for a PMP or phone, and vice versa.