Apple tablet may ship with multi-touch version of iWork

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  • Reply 101 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tsad23 View Post


    The app store is apple's hidden treasure. Like the ipod touch and iphone, apple will sell the islate sans any apps and allow the user to fill up their shiny new purchase with all the $1, $5, $10 etc apps that they want.



    I also feel that this will keep the price of the islate lower, but allow apple to keep the cash register ringing even after one purchases the device.



    Because of my job, I'm forced to live in a cave in seclusion for 3 years - can you recommend a realtor?



    I wish people would stop calling it the iSlate. Yabba Dabba Don't Apple!!
  • Reply 102 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.



    Yeah, I'm sure, too. That can't be an Apple gesture. Not by a long shot. If there is a slate up Steve's sleeve we can rest assured we ain't seen nothing like that yet.
  • Reply 103 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Care to explain?



    Keep in mind, Apple will want to sell these tablets. They didn't create the iPhone or the iPod for the purpose of selling Macs, they created them for the purpose of selling iPhones and iPods. They have sold more Macs as a result because they put Apple products into the hands of more people, but not because either one of them required you to own a Mac.



    Web access, quite possibly. But I think a web interface to productivity applications is not widely accepted yet, so if Apple goes that route, it better be far more developed than anything out there currently (including iWork.com in its current state), or it won't sell slates or Macs.



    I generally agree with your argument, but I think you're first paragraph is wrong.



    iPod sales leading to increased Mac sales was, in fact, a significant part of Apple's business plan. Therefore, I'd argue that Apple did create the iPod for the purpose of selling computers.



    Steady iPod sales also allows Apple to choose its own price in the computer market also, as the volume of iPod sales continues to add to Apple's bottom line.



    The iPhone, however, is something completely different.
  • Reply 104 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cliphord View Post


    The iPhone, however, is something completely different.



    I think the iPhone is also another sales maker for Macs... as is the Touch. People get one, are impressed with the device and the thinking behind it and then look at Mac. Aren't MacBook and iMac sales higher than ever?
  • Reply 105 of 172
    Here's how I'd use a tablet, if it had a necessary amount of what's predicted (but not all the bells and whistles people keep throwing in along with the kitchen sink). Looks like I'll be shooting another feature film this year (overseas! Much fun), and the tablet would be a great help. Usually on set, I have a script in one hand, that day's storyboard pages pinned up to a few boards, and a laptop (MBP) on my table for looking at reference footage, set design, graphics etc.



    If the tablet could somehow let me look at my script on it and do rudimentary notes (this take good, change that word, cross this scene off), not necessarily full word processing, I'm good. If I can also flip to my digitized storyboard, I'm really fine. If I can look at video on my laptop (either networked to it, or streaming), I"m really, really excellent (I hate having to grab the laptop and bring it to my DP to show him something, while jumping over cables, etc., then bring the thing back to the table). All of that (which seems reasonable in a tablet) would save me a lot of time, and make me more productive.



    If it could also work as a wireless video monitor (so I can "see" the shot from the camera), that makes me perfect - as I can go anywhere with my tablet and still have monitor access. One step further (but hardly necessary), if my script supervisor had one, and we were "linked," we could be in sync for shot lists, productions notes, etc.



    Me, I think this is reasonable to expect from a tablet from Apple... none of it needs a full-blown OS X, but it does need some way to make "notes" on digitized data. So, can't wait to see.
  • Reply 106 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by icyfog View Post


    See to me, if this Mac Touch is powerful enough to run iWork, then presumably it's powerful enough to run iLife. So if that's the case then the device needs ports to connect with raw content gathering devices, like a camera. Connecting the two via an intermediary computer, in my opinion, is the wrong answer.



    Your presumption is incorrect.



    Actually, office productivity applications are far less taxing on computing resources compared to media applications.



    Moving around massive amounts of data (e.g., AVCHD footage) is highly processor, graphics, memory and disk intensive. A word processor or spreadsheet app is positively lightweight compared to that.



    The tablet's multitouch input, battery constraints, CPU performance, memory capacity, storage capacity, graphics performance, etc. all point to an inability to handle full blown media editing applications like Photoshop, Logic, or Final Cut. Basic media editing tools ("lite" version of iPhoto and iMovie) are possible, but if I tried to run Final Cut Express on a tablet, the battery would be sucked dry before the render was up.



    Let's face it, the tablet is going to be a consumer device, not one for "prosumer" users. If you have a little Flip camcorder or are using your point-and-shoot camera's video mode, yeah, you might want some basic editing tools on your tablet before you upload to YouTube. If you are carrying around a full-blown AVCHD camcorder and want to edit your videos on semi-pro editors, you would be plugging your device into your notebook or desktop computer anyhow.



    You are not gonna have 250GB of disk scratch space on this year's tablet. Ain't gonna happen.
  • Reply 107 of 172
    Quote:

    However, this being Apple, I'm relatively certain that whatever gesture vocabulary they've dreamed up will feel very natural and obvious, once you've used it. Which is why I'm also pretty certain the "three finger down" thing is just made up.



    I'm not sure what Apple has in store but the idea that any of the regular buying public wants to learn multi-touch gestures is out of line with how much they use the existing multitouch gestures. I would bet 99% of casual Mac buyers don't even know more than a couple gestures or that many of their apps have differing multi-touch gestures of their own.



    There's also the very serious consideration that Mac devices don't always register touches correctly. That would be incredibly frustrating for working in an office app suite where speed and precision would be valued.



    Then again, this is all rumor. Apple doesn't even think the average user is capable of dealing with folders on their iPhones, much less learning a set of "complex" multi-touch gestures that may differ between apps. In the end the device will be judged by Apple's core fans on its forward thinking, but by the rest of the public on how easy it is to operate vs their laptops. If this is supposed to be a productivity device with office programs like iWork, then it stands to reason that it will need to be able to compete with the devices that offer the same functionality. More than ever, I hope Apple allows the tablet to be used with an external keyboard, something they have refused to allow with the iPhone.
  • Reply 108 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    Me, I think this is reasonable to expect from a tablet from Apple... none of it needs a full-blown OS X, but it does need some way to make "notes" on digitized data. So, can't wait to see.



    I have much the same thoughts from a film production standpoint. Considering someone has made a video editing tool for the iPhone [which is nuts, really!]- it's going to be a measure easier to use video editing on a 10-11" tablet. That said- I don't think the tablet in this form factor wants or needs to be a standalone editing platform. Unless you're working in the very low end, no one is going to be finishing a project on a tablet like this. I think it can meet the needs of consumers, with some form of iMovie; but for pro users I think the possibilities of the tablet are for the production uses you mentioned. For post production, I see it as strictly an offline tool. Doing selects and rough assemblies with low resolution proxies- with the ultimate goal being to export an EDL to do your finishing on a proper online system.



    I've said for a while now that the ultimate boon of the touch revolution is going to be the multi-touch keyboard. Bigger than a keyboard, this device will allow for custom interfaces for video, audio, and other graphics programs. Eliminating the static standard keyboard interface for something that has the virtual buttons, dials, faders, etc. that make more sense for these programs.
  • Reply 109 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post


    Doing selects and rough assemblies with low resolution proxies- with the ultimate goal being to export an EDL to do your finishing on a proper online system.



    I could also see it helping me in a multiple person "group" situation. Say we're looking at dailies on a large screen being driven by a MP. Everyone in the room with a slate "could" have access to controlling things on the screen (like a giant white board where everyone has different colored pens). DP might find a take too soft (though they better have caught that in shooting, but let's just say), I may realize that a piece of one take is better than I thought, so I use the tablet to mark that section, my script supervisor may grab take-numbers, or something.



    I don't expect a tablet (if it comes out) to do this immediately, but I don't see it being very far off, if one wanted it. Working out the "kinks" of multiple users having control of a computer doesn't seem to be that big a deal; we already have this "remote controlling" in OS X (and in Windows, Linux, etc.), so making it "easy" and "natural" is a next step.
  • Reply 110 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cliphord View Post


    I generally agree with your argument, but I think you're first paragraph is wrong.



    iPod sales leading to increased Mac sales was, in fact, a significant part of Apple's business plan. Therefore, I'd argue that Apple did create the iPod for the purpose of selling computers.



    Steady iPod sales also allows Apple to choose its own price in the computer market also, as the volume of iPod sales continues to add to Apple's bottom line.



    The iPhone, however, is something completely different.



    You may recall, the iPod originally worked only with a Mac. It didn't turn into the phenomenon it became until Apple released iTunes for Windows. When iPod sales started taking off, that's when we began to hear about the "halo effect" and increased sales of Macs, because a lot more people now had Apple tech in their pockets, and people flocking to Apple Stores to buy iPods were being exposed to the Mac in ways they never would have been before. In this respect the iPhone isn't something completely different, it's completely the same.



    I think this aspect of Apple's market strategy is widely misunderstood. Many still wonder why Apple doesn't go head-to-head with Microsoft, by licensing OSX, or head-to-head with the OEMs, by selling cheaper hardware. It's because frontal assaults, especially against a stronger foe, are dumb. Again and again, we've seen Apple succeed by outflanking their competitors. Somebody at Apple is reading their Sun Tzu.



    Neither the iPhone nor the iPod should be seen simply as stalking horses for Mac sales. Apple wants to sell all of these products, especially the ones with huge growth potential and big margins. They are building a brand identity with wide appeal based on an array of products. Accordingly I would not be at all surprised to see a version of iWork for Windows, if it helps them establish a new blockbuster product.
  • Reply 111 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    I don't expect a tablet (if it comes out) to do this immediately, but I don't see it being very far off, if one wanted it. Working out the "kinks" of multiple users having control of a computer doesn't seem to be that big a deal.



    Definitely. If apple doesn't do it itself as an adjunct to their own pro applications, third parties will rush in to fill the void. Basically I think we both imagine the Slate as a production assistant, rather than a production tool in the strictest sense. And that's fine. As the power and performance on this form factor matures, the question of whether a tablet is better or worse for full editing/sound/whatever duties will sort itself out.



    I started editing with film, then tape-to-tape, and now digital across multiple programs. Though digital editing undeniably has many advantages over the past, the one place I can see an improvement is through a more customized interface. Take the best of digital and analogue controls and create something that is intuitive and gets rid of all the keys you don't use on a standard keyboard.
  • Reply 112 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    I could also see it helping me in a multiple person "group" situation. Say we're looking at dailies on a large screen being driven by a MP. Everyone in the room with a slate "could" have access to controlling things on the screen (like a giant white board where everyone has different colored pens). DP might find a take too soft (though they better have caught that in shooting, but let's just say), I may realize that a piece of one take is better than I thought, so I use the tablet to mark that section, my script supervisor may grab take-numbers, or something.



    Guess you're hoping for a stylus then Not a lot of people gather for dailies in a controlled setting anymore. Its kinda wherever and whenever you can make it happen. For instance, Wolverine dailies were delivered on approximately 130 Digital Betacam Tapes, 500 XDCAM disks, 400 HDCAM SR tapes, and 2,500 DVD?s and was run through the Bones Dailies integrated solution. Not sure where a Mac tablet fits into that kind of system.
  • Reply 113 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post


    Guess you're hoping for a stylus then Not a lot of people gather for dailies in a controlled setting anymore. Its kinda wherever and whenever you can make it happen. For instance, Wolverine dailies were delivered on approximately 130 Digital Betacam Tapes, 500 XDCAM disks, 400 HDCAM SR tapes, and 2,500 DVD?s and was run through the Bones Dailies integrated solution. Not sure where a Mac tablet fits into that kind of system.



    Actually, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd like the tablet to eventually do. I do "big room" dailies as well, and usually insist on certain of my team being there no matter what (it's like read-throughs when I can get the producer and actors to agree - a director's choice). When I can "control" the setting, that's fine. A tie-in to whatever method of daily integration is what I'm looking at (and it was only an example; I can think of many other times in production it would be useful). One has to control it somehow. Even if it's a secondary computer with large screen for group "note taking."



    Also, on location, one always needs a "Mission Control" - usually a traveling editing suite, to take a look at stuff. The nice thing about HDvid and now HD3Dvid is the immediacy. The tablet would simply add to that immediacy. Again, the tablet could be a fine aid.
  • Reply 114 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post


    Guess you're hoping for a stylus then Not a lot of people gather for dailies in a controlled setting anymore. Its kinda wherever and whenever you can make it happen. For instance, Wolverine dailies were delivered on approximately 130 Digital Betacam Tapes, 500 XDCAM disks, 400 HDCAM SR tapes, and 2,500 DVD?s and was run through the Bones Dailies integrated solution. Not sure where a Mac tablet fits into that kind of system.



    No one product/solution works for every situation- Ultimately it will be up to developers [Apple or others] to create applications that work for a market and situation. Out of the box, the tablet is not going to solve everyones problems and do what everyone wants it to do- it can't. But with the success of the appStore, developers will jump in with both feet where they see opportunity.



    And there will be more than one application for some uses, which is great. Cause if you take Navigation programs for example, you won't find consensus on which one is the best, cause different people like different things [obviously]. Apple merely has to provide the platform on which for that development to prosper.
  • Reply 115 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post


    As the power and performance on this form factor matures, the question of whether a tablet is better or worse for full editing/sound/whatever duties will sort itself out.



    I started editing with film, then tape-to-tape, and now digital across multiple programs.



    If you've been editing for years then you know that tablet editing is a very mature platform (Wacom tablets and Cintiqs are in every post house on the planet). You also probably know the MASSIVE storage needs required for editing. You also probably know how hot a CPU gets when working in a relatively simple program like Final Cut. Apple tablet as a control surface? Maybe. As an editor? Only as a convenience, certainly not as a professional solution in the near future. Will they hook it up to a camera for logging? That's certainly where a device like this could shine.
  • Reply 116 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post


    I started editing with film, then tape-to-tape, and now digital across multiple programs. Though digital editing undeniably has many advantages over the past, the one place I can see an improvement is through a more customized interface. Take the best of digital and analogue controls and create something that is intuitive and gets rid of all the keys you don't use on a standard keyboard.



    Yeah, there's a lot that could be done as an interface device with this. A "smart" interface device... much like a yellow pad... very smart, been used to write songs, novels, poems, great mathematical theorems, etc. Now if we can figure out a way to do that digitally (and I'm NOT the guy to do that), I'm happy.



    As for a stylus as someone mentioned... meh, I'm not expecting either a stylus or not a stylus. I'm not even expecting a tablet. I was simply looking at the "simplest hardware" that this tablet could be and seeing if there were somehow it would work for me where a desktop, laptop, iPhone wouldn't. I see a lot of people saying how they're going to use the new tablet like an old computer (and a few saying that doctors, real estate agents, Indian chiefs might use it). Me, I know EXACTLY how it might be useful for me... and not far from do-able.
  • Reply 117 of 172
    irelandireland Posts: 17,771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Traqqer7777 View Post


    It's beginning to sound like the Apple Tablet could indeed be a replacement for not just a netbook, but a full laptop. Here's an article that discusses this in more detail:



    http://www.alltabletnews.com/2010/01...k-replacement/



    I don't mind you linking to an article but not mentioning you wrote the article doesn't feel right. Do yourself a favor, if you want your site to be taken seriously say: "full disclosure it's my site".
  • Reply 118 of 172
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You may recall, the iPod originally worked only with a Mac. It didn't turn into the phenomenon it became until Apple released iTunes for Windows. When iPod sales started taking off, that's when we began to hear about the "halo effect" and increased sales of Macs, because a lot more people now had Apple tech in their pockets, and people flocking to Apple Stores to buy iPods were being exposed to the Mac in ways they never would have been before. In this respect the iPhone isn't something completely different, it's completely the same.



    I think this aspect of Apple's market strategy is widely misunderstood. Many still wonder why Apple doesn't go head-to-head with Microsoft, by licensing OSX, or head-to-head with the OEMs, by selling cheaper hardware. It's because frontal assaults, especially against a stronger foe, are dumb. Again and again, we've seen Apple succeed by outflanking their competitors. Somebody at Apple is reading their Sun Tzu.



    Neither the iPhone nor the iPod should be seen simply as stalking horses for Mac sales. Apple wants to sell all of these products, especially the ones with huge growth potential and big margins. They are building a brand identity with wide appeal based on an array of products. Accordingly I would not be at all surprised to see a version of iWork for Windows, if it helps them establish a new blockbuster product.



    Which reminds me of the oft cited Jobs quote from '96, shortly before he retook the reigns at Apple: "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago."



    Given that it's been widely reported that the iPhone was actually the first, somewhat pared down version of a tablet project that had been in the works for perhaps the last 10 years, you have to wonder if Apple isn't intent on simply changing the conversation away from the desktop market they can never dominate and over to a whole new paradigm. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that Apple (Jobs) sees their idea of a touch based computer as the new Mac compared to extent PCs-- even Apple's own PCs.
  • Reply 119 of 172
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member
    It's great that the thread is finally starting to move towards a discussion of the *use* of the tablet as opposed to it's specs, which are likely to be unsurprising. It's really the UI and how we interact with this thing that is the most important aspect, but we know the least about it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    ... As for a stylus as someone mentioned... meh, I'm not expecting either a stylus or not a stylus. ...



    This is a key point for me. I've been an enthusiastic user of computers since almost the day they first became available and in all that time, the one thing a computer has never been able to successfully replace is that simple thing you do when you pull out a pen and a piece of paper, or draw on the back of a napkin in a restaurant. It's one of the most natural human communication activities but it simply can't be done on a computer. The closest I ever got was a series of Palm and PocketPC devices with styluses but there were innumerable problems with them and they all needed a special stylus.



    I don't want to see a stylus, but if there isn't some kind of solution in the tablet for simple drawing, then it will not be up to spec as far as I can see.



    Sure, you'll be able to draw with your finger, and sure the bigger screen will make that even easier, but anyone who uses a pen seriously can tell you that a finger is not a pen and never will be. It's pretty obvious that pens and writing devices wouldn't have been invented at all, if fingers would suffice. The pen is probably the biggest single invention of all time and there is yet no handy, universal, natural, computerised replacement for it. If a tablet is going to replace pads of paper, it has to have some kind of pen or pen-like input.



    The tablet either has to have a stylus (the easy solution), or it has to have some completely unknown, totally new way of making your fingers mimic a pen in software. If it doesn't, then it's only really solved the problem of keyboard entry, not stylus entry.



    I'm trying to dial down my expectations at this point, so if the tablet doesn't solve this problem, I'll just buy a capacitive stylus, but I'm really hoping that Apple has thought up a solution for this with the tablet. If they have, IMO it qualifies as a sort of "last revolution" in computing. If it doesn't, then ... well at least there will be something around the corner to look forward to I guess.



    Edit: from all the news stories I assumed capacitive styluses were available. Technically they are, but they all suck at anything but finger replacement, so I guess it's even more important to be able to draw on this thing I guess.
  • Reply 120 of 172
    irelandireland Posts: 17,771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post


    More than ever, I hope Apple allows the tablet to be used with an external keyboard, something they have refused to allow with the iPhone.



    I think you want a laptop. You can guy one.
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