If this goes on much longer, we're all going to need a "I survived the HD format wars and all I got were these lousy coasters" T-shirt. Owning gaming consoles meant that I was invested in Blu Ray just because I purchased a PS3 and it didn't take much convincing to pick up the HD-DVD add on for the 360 when it was still a viable format. I actually picked up most of my HD-DVDs for between $0.99 and $4.99 after Toshiba declared HD-DVD 'dead' and retailers were looking to offload the media while they still had a chance.
I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.
The prediction that Apple would start shipping Macs with Blu Ray drives has been around since they became available for Windows PCs. Predictions heated up when HD-DVD fizzled. But here we are 2.5 years after Toshiba conceded and over 4 years since Blu Ray movies started shipping and we still have no Macs shipping from Apple with these drives.
Lets see what Apple comes up with at this event on September 1, maybe we'll have a clearer picture then.
Blu-ray is rising from a very small number, DVD is dropping from a very high number. If Blu-ray were going to replace DVD, then why are studios focusing on VOD instead of Blu-ray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Actually Blu-ray sales are continuing to increase, DVD sales are the one that are dropping, dropping faster than Blu-ray is increasing, that is where your mis-use of the statistic comes in
You are correct. People seem to make these types of debates all or nothing. Physical media is not going to disappear but it will not be as profitable as it once was. Studios are looking for what distribution method will make them the most money. They are not as emotionally attached to anyone thing as people are here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
Similarly, I think it is a bit extreme to say that the studios have no interest in providing various streaming services. A more accurate characterization would be that they are looking to maximize profits and they don't currently feel that your proposed streaming package would be as profitable. On the other hand, we have seen an explosion of streaming services in the last few years. I've got my fingers crossed that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that the studios won't drag their feet.
I guarantee you it won't have anything to do with physical media.
That's my guess as well, and I'm guessing it will justify Apple's position on Blu Ray (aka, supporting Blu Ray would cost them content on iTunes, etc).
Blu-ray is rising from a very small number, DVD is dropping from a very high number. If Blu-ray were going to replace DVD, then why are studios focusing on VOD instead of Blu-ray?
They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.
A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.
If the cost of the media is prohibitive to you, I imagine you don't purchase or rent from iTunes either, especially since they cost the same, if not more than the DVD or Blu-ray version even though the digital download version has more restrictions than the physical media version.
I've seen lots of Blu-Rays of good movies at US$9.99, though not new releases.
Theatrical movies have something like six stages of roll-out for a movie, starting with the initial movie theater release, pay per view, second run theaters, premium channel airings and eventually ending in packaged home video (DVD, etc.). There are also occasional repricings as the movie is out on disc for a year or so. Video on demand seems to largely be primed to be a replacement for pay per view.
They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.
Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.
Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.
I don't know how list price enters into the equation. List price isn't a relevant price in deciding what or whether to buy, it's the actual asking price. Many reputable web stores are about 40% off list price. I'm pretty sure the $40 list price is for the edition with digital copy or other bonus discs, I recall plenty list for $30 and sell for $20 new, and this is for new releases. Older releases can be had for less.
The original point I was responding to was that customers are buying less and less physical media, and I believe it is because the cost of the media is so high. I remember how my folks balked at DVDs initially because of the cost over VHS tapes of the same movie. Yes, DVDs were of a much higher quality but when people are used to spending a certain amount of money on a movie, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're paying double for a different type of media, despite any advances or special features that one type of media may have over another. After all, to most consumers, a movie is a movie. You would be hard pressed to get most people to tell you the difference between 1080p and 720p and most people would say a particular TV set is 'better' because it has the brightness turned up a little higher than the set next to it.
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark.
The thing is, your price impressions still seem to be a little out of date, there are movies at those prices, but I don't think it represents current prices. This week's Best Buy weekly circular has sale prices of $10, $15, $20, $25 and $30. And I'm not counting the two $8 discs that look like they might be straight-to-video flicks. Sam's club and Amazon have a lot of movies under $20 at regular price, I've seen plenty of old blockbusters at Sam's for $10 a piece.
Also keep in mind that while DVD started high, the prices gradually went down. Blu-Ray started at roughly the same price brackets DVD did, and those prices seem to be going down quicker than DVD did. I was a DVD early adopter, and I remember how prices were and I've watched how they've declined.
In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.
I read it the other day when you posted it. The studios have always had a variety of different methods of selling their products, now they have more. They are trying to protect all their sales by having their products available anywhere, this isn't new.
I'm sure some people really enjoy VOD, personally I can't use it, there isn't a cable service available where I live, and to get it via Satellite requires me subscribing to Sky TV to pay NZ$50 for 40 channels, no thanks. So until digital downloads get to a quality that is acceptable to me, I will continue to rent, and purchase Blu-ray movies.
The original point I was responding to was that customers are buying less and less physical media, and I believe it is because the cost of the media is so high. I remember how my folks balked at DVDs initially because of the cost over VHS tapes of the same movie. Yes, DVDs were of a much higher quality but when people are used to spending a certain amount of money on a movie, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're paying double for a different type of media, despite any advances or special features that one type of media may have over another. After all, to most consumers, a movie is a movie. You would be hard pressed to get most people to tell you the difference between 1080p and 720p and most people would say a particular TV set is 'better' because it has the brightness turned up a little higher than the set next to it.
Why do you raise the difference between 1080p and 720p? The last time I looked DVD was only 480p in the US, now there is a big difference between 480p and 720p, or 1080p.
Now you must live in a funny place, I hardly purchased any VHS movies, they were too expensive, I started purchasing DVDs though, as the quality was better, and the price was cheaper. When I got my first Blu-ray player, I started purchasing Blu-ray movies as the quality was so much better than DVD, and the price was so close (I must admit I purchased a tonne of movies in the Buy one get one free sales), and the price is still close. If you purchase things at list price, or only ever look at list price than that is your fault, shop around and purchase things when they are cheap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.
So you are comparing a sale of one product, to the full price of another? Hmm, like I said, purchase things on sale if you don't like the price. And I take it you don't purchase from the iTunes store? It is more expensive than physical media, and you have more restrictions place on you, they don't have the Amazon type sales (well until you can purchase some vouchers on sale), it is difficult for most users to purchase iTunes movies from another country. Using your logic, DVD's are here to stay.
In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.
Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.
The movie disc sales are definitely declining, but the major factor is not because of blu-ray. Thought someone should point out the obvious.
Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.
Always remember, that over 95% of the worlds population, does not, and can not subscribe to Netflix. Netflix is not the reason for disc sales decreases, spending habits are.
Comments
I propose that we discard this thread three months early and start a Blu-ray vs. AppleTV (2011) thread.
Because you know that we're going to end up there anyway...
I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.
The prediction that Apple would start shipping Macs with Blu Ray drives has been around since they became available for Windows PCs. Predictions heated up when HD-DVD fizzled. But here we are 2.5 years after Toshiba conceded and over 4 years since Blu Ray movies started shipping and we still have no Macs shipping from Apple with these drives.
Lets see what Apple comes up with at this event on September 1, maybe we'll have a clearer picture then.
Actually Blu-ray sales are continuing to increase, DVD sales are the one that are dropping, dropping faster than Blu-ray is increasing, that is where your mis-use of the statistic comes in
$99 is so cheap that, if correct, it suggests that the hardware would have to be subsidized in some other way... perhaps via overpriced content.
Apple doesn't do loss leaders. Apple makes its money from the hardware not the content.
Lets see what Apple comes up with at this event on September 1, maybe we'll have a clearer picture then.
I guarantee you it won't have anything to do with physical media.
Similarly, I think it is a bit extreme to say that the studios have no interest in providing various streaming services. A more accurate characterization would be that they are looking to maximize profits and they don't currently feel that your proposed streaming package would be as profitable. On the other hand, we have seen an explosion of streaming services in the last few years. I've got my fingers crossed that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that the studios won't drag their feet.
I guarantee you it won't have anything to do with physical media.
That's my guess as well, and I'm guessing it will justify Apple's position on Blu Ray (aka, supporting Blu Ray would cost them content on iTunes, etc).
Blu-ray is rising from a very small number, DVD is dropping from a very high number. If Blu-ray were going to replace DVD, then why are studios focusing on VOD instead of Blu-ray?
They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.
A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.
If the cost of the media is prohibitive to you, I imagine you don't purchase or rent from iTunes either, especially since they cost the same, if not more than the DVD or Blu-ray version even though the digital download version has more restrictions than the physical media version.
Theatrical movies have something like six stages of roll-out for a movie, starting with the initial movie theater release, pay per view, second run theaters, premium channel airings and eventually ending in packaged home video (DVD, etc.). There are also occasional repricings as the movie is out on disc for a year or so. Video on demand seems to largely be primed to be a replacement for pay per view.
They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.
Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.
Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.
I don't know how list price enters into the equation. List price isn't a relevant price in deciding what or whether to buy, it's the actual asking price. Many reputable web stores are about 40% off list price. I'm pretty sure the $40 list price is for the edition with digital copy or other bonus discs, I recall plenty list for $30 and sell for $20 new, and this is for new releases. Older releases can be had for less.
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark.
The thing is, your price impressions still seem to be a little out of date, there are movies at those prices, but I don't think it represents current prices. This week's Best Buy weekly circular has sale prices of $10, $15, $20, $25 and $30. And I'm not counting the two $8 discs that look like they might be straight-to-video flicks. Sam's club and Amazon have a lot of movies under $20 at regular price, I've seen plenty of old blockbusters at Sam's for $10 a piece.
Also keep in mind that while DVD started high, the prices gradually went down. Blu-Ray started at roughly the same price brackets DVD did, and those prices seem to be going down quicker than DVD did. I was a DVD early adopter, and I remember how prices were and I've watched how they've declined.
In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.
You should read the article.
I read it the other day when you posted it. The studios have always had a variety of different methods of selling their products, now they have more. They are trying to protect all their sales by having their products available anywhere, this isn't new.
I'm sure some people really enjoy VOD, personally I can't use it, there isn't a cable service available where I live, and to get it via Satellite requires me subscribing to Sky TV to pay NZ$50 for 40 channels, no thanks. So until digital downloads get to a quality that is acceptable to me, I will continue to rent, and purchase Blu-ray movies.
The original point I was responding to was that customers are buying less and less physical media, and I believe it is because the cost of the media is so high. I remember how my folks balked at DVDs initially because of the cost over VHS tapes of the same movie. Yes, DVDs were of a much higher quality but when people are used to spending a certain amount of money on a movie, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're paying double for a different type of media, despite any advances or special features that one type of media may have over another. After all, to most consumers, a movie is a movie. You would be hard pressed to get most people to tell you the difference between 1080p and 720p and most people would say a particular TV set is 'better' because it has the brightness turned up a little higher than the set next to it.
Why do you raise the difference between 1080p and 720p? The last time I looked DVD was only 480p in the US, now there is a big difference between 480p and 720p, or 1080p.
Now you must live in a funny place, I hardly purchased any VHS movies, they were too expensive, I started purchasing DVDs though, as the quality was better, and the price was cheaper. When I got my first Blu-ray player, I started purchasing Blu-ray movies as the quality was so much better than DVD, and the price was so close (I must admit I purchased a tonne of movies in the Buy one get one free sales), and the price is still close. If you purchase things at list price, or only ever look at list price than that is your fault, shop around and purchase things when they are cheap
The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.
So you are comparing a sale of one product, to the full price of another? Hmm, like I said, purchase things on sale if you don't like the price. And I take it you don't purchase from the iTunes store? It is more expensive than physical media, and you have more restrictions place on you, they don't have the Amazon type sales (well until you can purchase some vouchers on sale), it is difficult for most users to purchase iTunes movies from another country. Using your logic, DVD's are here to stay.
In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.
Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.
The movie disc sales are definitely declining, but the major factor is not because of blu-ray. Thought someone should point out the obvious.
Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.
Always remember, that over 95% of the worlds population, does not, and can not subscribe to Netflix. Netflix is not the reason for disc sales decreases, spending habits are.