Hopefully they break out the blu-ray vs DVD sales numbers the week after Avatar comes out and then we can have some numbers that can't be discredited. Or would you guys find a way to take issues with those as well?
lol, taking this a bit personally?
Those numbers would certainly be indicative of Avatar disc sales.
That's what you think is going on? Apple is "pretending blu-ray doesn't exist"?
But yeah, I too wish Apple would start supporting blu-ray playback. My 27" i7Mac double as a TV screen with an HDHomerun, netflix streaming, etc. Adding blu-ray playback to its capabilities would make me quite happy, even after having to pay for an optical drive upgrade.
For those who didn't believe the report that half of Avatar pre-orders were blu-ray was any indication of actual sales:
Quote:
During an interview with Fox News' Neil Cavuto, News Corp. Chairman and CEO Rupert Murdoch revealed that James Cameron's science-fiction epic has sold "10 million DVDs in 10 days, the highest ever, 40 percent of it in Blu-ray at $24, which is, again, an all-time record."
But by all means Apple, just keep on saying you're waiting for blu-ray to "really take off" before you offer it in a Mac.
For those who didn't believe the report that half of Avatar pre-orders were blu-ray was any indication of actual sales:
But by all means Apple, just keep on saying you're waiting for blu-ray to "really take off" before you offer it in a Mac.
Are you really not understanding or are you purposefully mischaracterizing my point about what Avatar pre-sales were indicative of?
My 27" iMac would have a blu-ray drive if Apple were offering it as an option. But that doesn't mean i'm pretending that pre-sales of a special-effects movie is the best indicator of the overall market preference between media formats. Something like, oh I don't know, overall market figures would be better for characterizing the entire market. It isn't like they only collected data on Avatar sales.
Those numbers are meaningful and significant, but they're only for one movie. To see how the entire market is doing, we should look at figures for the entire market.
Are you really not understanding or are you purposefully mischaracterizing my point about what Avatar pre-sales were indicative of?
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
My 27" iMac would have a blu-ray drive if Apple were offering it as an option. But that doesn't mean i'm pretending that pre-sales of a special-effects movie is the best indicator of the overall market preference between media formats. Something like, oh I don't know, overall market figures would be better for characterizing the entire market. It isn't like they only collected data on Avatar sales.
Those numbers are meaningful and significant, but they're only for one movie. To see how the entire market is doing, we should look at figures for the entire market.
I don't disagree. But when Apple started putting DVD players in iMacs, I bet it was before any single movie had sold even one in ten copies on DVD.
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
Hm..... PS3 genre represents all BD sales pattern? I remember someone covering this regards to type of genre release being another niche behavior. We've seen this trend before during the release of spiderman, x-men, 007, and etc. Which was just a spike rather than sustainable pattern. Nonetheless, 4 million copies are 4 million copies. This is definite improvement over the past 5 years. Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
...Are you serious? All of the laserdiscs ever sold probably didn't equal one million copies. While you're skoffing at making a big deal about only four million copies, keep in mind that the DVD only sold six million copies, and it's been around for thirteen years. Blu-ray is just coming up on 4 years old. In both cases, I'm going by when the first players shipped in the U.S.
Hm..... PS3 genre represents all BD sales pattern? I remember someone covering this regards to type of genre release being another niche behavior. We've seen this trend before during the release of spiderman, x-men, 007, and etc. Which was just a spike rather than sustainable pattern. Nonetheless, 4 million copies are 4 million copies. This is definite improvement over the past 5 years. Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
I've never seen any figure of US home uptake of LD players to be greater than 1% of households (maybe a million players at its height), so 4 million of just one movie at release is doing quite a bit better than the entire LD format did in the US. Non-US acceptance is a different matter, I don't know those figures any more.
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
Yes, I did make that statement, but it was a supporting point, not the main point. By vaguely rewording and fixating on that one sentence, you've created a strawman argument. If you want to know my main point, try looking at the first and last sentence of that post you linked to.
On top of that, the sentence you've fixated on was correct. By the numbers you posted, pre-sales were indeed skewed toward blu-ray. Pre-sales were 50% and normal sales were 40%. (Or is that "4 in 6"?)
Combine this with the other supporting factors I list, and the overall point seems quite reasonable. That point is: Avatar pre-sales is not the best metric for assessing the overall market preference for blu-ray.
The reason why I pointed this out in the first place was that it seemed like a cherry-picked metric. Companies with a financial interest in the success of blu-ray obviously chose to push the publicity of the skewed metric. There isn't anything terribly wrong with that. But neither is there anything wrong with pointing out that more informative numbers are available.
It isn't like they only tracked Avatar sales. All sales were tracked and they chose to push the Avatar figures. This is partially because Avatar's popularity was phenomenal and Avatar stories get more air time. The other reason is because it represents their new, more expensive product as the "it" thing. It is good publicity, just not the most accurate way of representing blu-ray's position in the marketplace.
I've never seen any figure of US home uptake of LD players to be greater than 1% of households (maybe a million players at its height), so 4 million of just one movie at release is doing quite a bit better than the entire LD format did in the US. Non-US acceptance is a different matter, I don't know those figures any more.
Come to think of it, the home theater hobby at the time was considered as a premium hobby. I don't remember movie viewing from home was as popular as it is now. Most public was happy with OTA TV programs. I guess DVD's and Cable TV, video rental stores like
Blockbuster made public evolve in this home theater market. Back in the days, 30+" TV was considered big screen TV so things have evolved quite a bit.
All in all, as I did note in my preview post, 4 million copies even for Avatar is an impressive progress. I do wish that future sales trend for BD follows this pattern for all releases, but I have my doubts.
Comments
Hopefully they break out the blu-ray vs DVD sales numbers the week after Avatar comes out and then we can have some numbers that can't be discredited. Or would you guys find a way to take issues with those as well?
lol, taking this a bit personally?
Those numbers would certainly be indicative of Avatar disc sales.
lol, taking this a bit personally?
Those numbers would certainly be indicative of Avatar disc sales.
I'm just baffled by how much blu-ray has to beat the pants off of digital downloads before Apple will stop pretending that it doesn't exist.
But yeah, I too wish Apple would start supporting blu-ray playback. My 27" i7Mac double as a TV screen with an HDHomerun, netflix streaming, etc. Adding blu-ray playback to its capabilities would make me quite happy, even after having to pay for an optical drive upgrade.
At one point, I was hoping iTunes to let me keep all my digital movie library within iTunes, but I think apple is ignoring that as well.
Blu-Ray now has a spec for 100-128GB discs. Not backward compatible though, you'll need a new player.
During an interview with Fox News' Neil Cavuto, News Corp. Chairman and CEO Rupert Murdoch revealed that James Cameron's science-fiction epic has sold "10 million DVDs in 10 days, the highest ever, 40 percent of it in Blu-ray at $24, which is, again, an all-time record."
But by all means Apple, just keep on saying you're waiting for blu-ray to "really take off" before you offer it in a Mac.
For those who didn't believe the report that half of Avatar pre-orders were blu-ray was any indication of actual sales:
But by all means Apple, just keep on saying you're waiting for blu-ray to "really take off" before you offer it in a Mac.
Are you really not understanding or are you purposefully mischaracterizing my point about what Avatar pre-sales were indicative of?
My 27" iMac would have a blu-ray drive if Apple were offering it as an option. But that doesn't mean i'm pretending that pre-sales of a special-effects movie is the best indicator of the overall market preference between media formats. Something like, oh I don't know, overall market figures would be better for characterizing the entire market.
Those numbers are meaningful and significant, but they're only for one movie. To see how the entire market is doing, we should look at figures for the entire market.
Are you really not understanding or are you purposefully mischaracterizing my point about what Avatar pre-sales were indicative of?
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
My 27" iMac would have a blu-ray drive if Apple were offering it as an option. But that doesn't mean i'm pretending that pre-sales of a special-effects movie is the best indicator of the overall market preference between media formats. Something like, oh I don't know, overall market figures would be better for characterizing the entire market.
Those numbers are meaningful and significant, but they're only for one movie. To see how the entire market is doing, we should look at figures for the entire market.
I don't disagree. But when Apple started putting DVD players in iMacs, I bet it was before any single movie had sold even one in ten copies on DVD.
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
Hm..... PS3 genre represents all BD sales pattern? I remember someone covering this regards to type of genre release being another niche behavior. We've seen this trend before during the release of spiderman, x-men, 007, and etc. Which was just a spike rather than sustainable pattern. Nonetheless, 4 million copies are 4 million copies. This is definite improvement over the past 5 years. Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
...Are you serious? All of the laserdiscs ever sold probably didn't equal one million copies. While you're skoffing at making a big deal about only four million copies, keep in mind that the DVD only sold six million copies, and it's been around for thirteen years. Blu-ray is just coming up on 4 years old. In both cases, I'm going by when the first players shipped in the U.S.
Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
Well since Blu-ray is outpacing DVD that would be a yes...
Are you two arguing over the number of LD players sold, or the number of disc titles sold for LD?
Who's arguing?... Yes, I was inquiring about the number of disc titles sold for LD.
Well since Blu-ray is outpacing DVD that would be a yes...
Really?... Interesting, I would've thought the announce would have been out in the avsforum first.
Who's arguing?... Yes, I was inquiring about the number of disc titles sold for LD.
Sorry, didn't mean for that to sound like it did.
I just wondered whether one of you was talking players, while the other meant titles.
Hm..... PS3 genre represents all BD sales pattern? I remember someone covering this regards to type of genre release being another niche behavior. We've seen this trend before during the release of spiderman, x-men, 007, and etc. Which was just a spike rather than sustainable pattern. Nonetheless, 4 million copies are 4 million copies. This is definite improvement over the past 5 years. Darn, it's been almost half of decade and we're getting excited about 4 million copies? Does BD even beat LD in retrospect to 5 year mark of LD?
I've never seen any figure of US home uptake of LD players to be greater than 1% of households (maybe a million players at its height), so 4 million of just one movie at release is doing quite a bit better than the entire LD format did in the US. Non-US acceptance is a different matter, I don't know those figures any more.
I don't think I was mischaracterizing. When I presented the pre-order numbers you felt the blu-ray pre-orders were disproportionately high because the kind of people who pre-order movies are the home theatre enthusiast niche. Well now we have actual sales figures, and 4 in 6 physical copies sold were blu-ray; not drastically different than what the pre-order figures suggested.
Yes, I did make that statement, but it was a supporting point, not the main point. By vaguely rewording and fixating on that one sentence, you've created a strawman argument. If you want to know my main point, try looking at the first and last sentence of that post you linked to.
On top of that, the sentence you've fixated on was correct. By the numbers you posted, pre-sales were indeed skewed toward blu-ray. Pre-sales were 50% and normal sales were 40%. (Or is that "4 in 6"?)
Combine this with the other supporting factors I list, and the overall point seems quite reasonable. That point is: Avatar pre-sales is not the best metric for assessing the overall market preference for blu-ray.
The reason why I pointed this out in the first place was that it seemed like a cherry-picked metric. Companies with a financial interest in the success of blu-ray obviously chose to push the publicity of the skewed metric. There isn't anything terribly wrong with that. But neither is there anything wrong with pointing out that more informative numbers are available.
It isn't like they only tracked Avatar sales. All sales were tracked and they chose to push the Avatar figures. This is partially because Avatar's popularity was phenomenal and Avatar stories get more air time. The other reason is because it represents their new, more expensive product as the "it" thing. It is good publicity, just not the most accurate way of representing blu-ray's position in the marketplace.
Sorry, didn't mean for that to sound like it did.
I just wondered whether one of you was talking players, while the other meant titles.
No big deal. I was just curious myself.
I've never seen any figure of US home uptake of LD players to be greater than 1% of households (maybe a million players at its height), so 4 million of just one movie at release is doing quite a bit better than the entire LD format did in the US. Non-US acceptance is a different matter, I don't know those figures any more.
Come to think of it, the home theater hobby at the time was considered as a premium hobby. I don't remember movie viewing from home was as popular as it is now. Most public was happy with OTA TV programs. I guess DVD's and Cable TV, video rental stores like
Blockbuster made public evolve in this home theater market. Back in the days, 30+" TV was considered big screen TV so things have evolved quite a bit.
All in all, as I did note in my preview post, 4 million copies even for Avatar is an impressive progress. I do wish that future sales trend for BD follows this pattern for all releases, but I have my doubts.
Really?... Interesting, I would've thought the announce would have been out in the avsforum first.
Maybe you should look back a few years ago when the media talked about it.