B I'm going to suggest to you that perhaps it is their religeon you don't care for (not an uncommon sentiment), rather than the people themselves. RIght?
I've known several people of the mormon faith, and while their crusade-like attitude towards converting people in other countries to their faith is a little much (as well as their aversion to alchohol and the like) in general they are nice enough people...just a little odd at times.
The Olympics open tonight in Salt Lake City, which happens to be the headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons. "Utah and its Mormon denizens are absorbing a media beating that outweighs anything endured by past Olympic venues like Calgary or Nagano," the Washington Times reports:
Descriptions of Utah include "the strangest state in America," "puritanical," "a theocracy," "holier-than-thou Hicksville" and "Dullsville." A trip to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' President Gordon Hinckley's office is like "walking into a David Lynch movie," according to Time magazine. . . .
Most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, are trying to maintain a sense of humor over the onslaught. . . . "We're just going to be who we are," Mr. Otterson said. "I think anyone who thinks we can control the media coverage is in never-never land. It's our intent to be welcoming and then hope that people have integrity."
More integrity, say, than an Australian reporter who asked two young Salt Lake City missionaries to tell her about the church, then poked cruel fun at one who was breathing with the help of an oxygen tank.
The Jerusalem Post has a fascinating story on the "very cordial ties" between Utah's tiny Jewish community and the Mormons:
Mormons call their state "Zion." The river that runs around Salt Lake City is the "Jordan." Their central building is the Temple, where only the most faithful may enter, dressed all in white like the Temple priests of old. Their Assembly Hall, home of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, boasts a large Star of David, explained by one church official as a conscious representation of the ingathering of the Jewish people in Israel, which the church supports as a necessary precursor to the Messianic era.
It's true that Utah is the only place in the world where Jews are called gentiles. But so is every other non-Mormon, so it's nothing to take personally.
Mormons consider themselves to be one of the Lost Tribes of Israel, and official church policy bans efforts to convert Jews. The Post tells the story of Rabbi Benny Zippel, an Orthodox Jew who put a menorah on public property, an action that usually draws objections from Reform Jews:
The director of a city park . . . invited Zippel to place Chabad's hanukkia on her property that December. Zippel ordered a large aluminum hanukkia with electric bulbs from a Chabad outlet in New Jersey, and the park put it up next to a Christmas tree. Zippel waited for the community reaction.
It came the next day--not from Jewish groups, but from the American Civil Liberties Union and a group called "The Society of Separatists." Both groups called the hanukkia unconstitutional, and told the city they wanted it down. Zippel showed up for a press conference at the hanukkia, armed with packages of Supreme Court documentation sent overnight to him by Lubavitch World Headquarters in Brooklyn.
"I went to the menora [hanukkia], and there were about 40 or 50 Mormons there, yelling at me that if I took it down, I was a wimp," Zippel recounts. "The Mormons thought that menora was the best thing in the world."
Do you people really have experience with them? Chicago ain't exactly Mormon country.
Yes I'm a prejudiced bigot asshole. But I moved out here almost 5 years ago, without any preconceptions or even knowledge of Mormons. The sum total of my knowledge about LDS was that a bunch of them lived by a lake and had a choir. I had absolutely no negative feelings. But I subsequently developed this prejudice over the past several years. My stereotypes:
1. they truly think they're superior to everyone else
2. they raise their kids to be brats (by teaching them they're superior to everyone else)
3. they'll do anything to screw non-Mormons to get ahead
4. they have a really weird religion.
Scott - are those quotes from that article Mormon-bashing, or are they the truth?
<strong>Scott - are those quotes from that article Mormon-bashing, or are they the truth?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's taken from BOTW. The BOTW stuff is in bold. What they quote from other source is in plain text. I left the link out from the Jerusalem Post but you can hit the link for BOTW and then link through to JP if you want.
Magic underwear baby! Man, that's one wacky religion.
To counter Scott H's statements I would have to say that I'd rather be stranded on an island with any of the atheist/agnostics I've met than any of the people that come to my door trying to convert me. Far more enjoyable and intelligent company!
<strong>I don't think my prejudice against Mormons is primarily religious. That may be part of it, but I think it's more social and cultural.
Is it wrong to make a judgment about a group based on their culture?
What about militant Islamic culture?</strong><hr></blockquote>
BRussell- I think you made your point. It your "observations" you have found Mormons to be no of your liking. I respect your forthrightness in coming out and explaining. I just wish others felt the same way. You don't HAVE to like people in this country...it's just nice to let people know up front. Hey, your opinions may change one day.
I'm not Mormon, but I once tried to date a Mormon gal. I have to say she's one of the coolest people I've ever met. We hit it off really well. When I asked her out to dinner, this was her reply:
"I want to, but I can't."
"Well it's just one dinner. I just want to get to know you better, " my reply.
"But if I go to dinner with you once, I'll want to do it again, and that could cause problems for me."
Do you know how frustrating that is?! She liked me, yet because of her faith, she didn't feel we should start anything. That was right after 9/11. I think she's since gone on to get a Mormon boyfriend.
I really do not like the Mormon church due to their extremist attempts to "convert" gays. I've read first person accounts as well as met people that have gone through this horrible "program". Some aspects include electric shock therapy and a process where a medication is given to you to make you throw up while viewing gay porn, while some sort of "happy drug" is given to you while viewing the straight variety.
Every religion is wacky to those who are not part of it. It shows something about your character when you discriminate against those of another religion. i thought liberals were open minded... guess i was wrong.
<strong>Every religion is wacky to those who are not part of it. It shows something about your character when you discriminate against those of another religion. i thought liberals were open minded... guess i was wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yet I also think it shows something about character when it is the religion whom is doing the discriminating...
Their religion isn't wacky its wrong: there were NO TABLETS given by angels. Before he decided to start a religion Smith was a known conman . . . .did he stop when the tablets came to him or did he like the idea that he could have more than one wife?!?!?
I'm not bashing them but what they believe is simply not true: Jesus didn't come to the Northern Hemisphere and the Indians aren't the lost tribe . . . .something that could probably be proved through genetics(?)
anyway, I know several ex-Mormons and they are very nice people. They are kind and thoughtful. They re really naive in a kind of milk-toast way but that is because they grew up very sheltered.
BUT:
I also know a person who is actually involved in the church of Satan.... Anton Levay's church.. and he too is a sweet, thoughtful person . . .and, allthough his naivety is all about being ultra 'jaded', he still is naive.
but he too is wrong . . . his church is just an excuse to be a power hungry, right wing (bet you didn't know that huh scott?) and think you look cool in black clothes.
In both cases there is a kind of sentiment of the superiority of their views (not with the ex-Mormons or else they would have stayed such, but it has much to do w/ their leaving): in the case of Mormons its all about being righteous and in the satanists ase its all about being scarrier than thou.
Also, I met Anton LeVays daughter at a party once . . .she seemed friendly and a bit shy . . .who'd a thought?!?!
<strong>I'm not Mormon, but I once tried to date a Mormon gal. I have to say she's one of the coolest people I've ever met. We hit it off really well. When I asked her out to dinner, this was her reply:
"I want to, but I can't."
"Well it's just one dinner. I just want to get to know you better, " my reply.
"But if I go to dinner with you once, I'll want to do it again, and that could cause problems for me."
Do you know how frustrating that is?! She liked me, yet because of her faith, she didn't feel we should start anything. That was right after 9/11. I think she's since gone on to get a Mormon boyfriend. </strong><hr></blockquote>
similar thing happened to me, I'm not a fan of mormons frankly because their religon is too funky if ya know what I mean, I usually just drink coffee and do other "taboos" when mormons come a knocking on my door
<strong>I never understood why the left was so full of religious hatred?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dont take the comments of a single person and turn it into a mass generalization. I am an athiest however I have no hostility towards those who believe differntly than I. I simply accept their rights to believe whatever they want, as long as they do not force their beliefs down my throat. Generalizations do nobody good, and neither do insults.
Comments
All the Mormon I've met have been really good people. Much much better than most of the atheist I've met.
I've known several people of the mormon faith, and while their crusade-like attitude towards converting people in other countries to their faith is a little much (as well as their aversion to alchohol and the like) in general they are nice enough people...just a little odd at times.
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
<a href="http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020207-69525696.htm"; target="_blank">Mormon Bashing</a>
The Olympics open tonight in Salt Lake City, which happens to be the headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons. "Utah and its Mormon denizens are absorbing a media beating that outweighs anything endured by past Olympic venues like Calgary or Nagano," the Washington Times reports:
Descriptions of Utah include "the strangest state in America," "puritanical," "a theocracy," "holier-than-thou Hicksville" and "Dullsville." A trip to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' President Gordon Hinckley's office is like "walking into a David Lynch movie," according to Time magazine. . . .
Most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, are trying to maintain a sense of humor over the onslaught. . . . "We're just going to be who we are," Mr. Otterson said. "I think anyone who thinks we can control the media coverage is in never-never land. It's our intent to be welcoming and then hope that people have integrity."
More integrity, say, than an Australian reporter who asked two young Salt Lake City missionaries to tell her about the church, then poked cruel fun at one who was breathing with the help of an oxygen tank.
The Jerusalem Post has a fascinating story on the "very cordial ties" between Utah's tiny Jewish community and the Mormons:
Mormons call their state "Zion." The river that runs around Salt Lake City is the "Jordan." Their central building is the Temple, where only the most faithful may enter, dressed all in white like the Temple priests of old. Their Assembly Hall, home of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, boasts a large Star of David, explained by one church official as a conscious representation of the ingathering of the Jewish people in Israel, which the church supports as a necessary precursor to the Messianic era.
It's true that Utah is the only place in the world where Jews are called gentiles. But so is every other non-Mormon, so it's nothing to take personally.
Mormons consider themselves to be one of the Lost Tribes of Israel, and official church policy bans efforts to convert Jews. The Post tells the story of Rabbi Benny Zippel, an Orthodox Jew who put a menorah on public property, an action that usually draws objections from Reform Jews:
The director of a city park . . . invited Zippel to place Chabad's hanukkia on her property that December. Zippel ordered a large aluminum hanukkia with electric bulbs from a Chabad outlet in New Jersey, and the park put it up next to a Christmas tree. Zippel waited for the community reaction.
It came the next day--not from Jewish groups, but from the American Civil Liberties Union and a group called "The Society of Separatists." Both groups called the hanukkia unconstitutional, and told the city they wanted it down. Zippel showed up for a press conference at the hanukkia, armed with packages of Supreme Court documentation sent overnight to him by Lubavitch World Headquarters in Brooklyn.
"I went to the menora [hanukkia], and there were about 40 or 50 Mormons there, yelling at me that if I took it down, I was a wimp," Zippel recounts. "The Mormons thought that menora was the best thing in the world."
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
Yes I'm a prejudiced bigot asshole. But I moved out here almost 5 years ago, without any preconceptions or even knowledge of Mormons. The sum total of my knowledge about LDS was that a bunch of them lived by a lake and had a choir. I had absolutely no negative feelings. But I subsequently developed this prejudice over the past several years. My stereotypes:
1. they truly think they're superior to everyone else
2. they raise their kids to be brats (by teaching them they're superior to everyone else)
3. they'll do anything to screw non-Mormons to get ahead
4. they have a really weird religion.
Scott - are those quotes from that article Mormon-bashing, or are they the truth?
<strong>Scott - are those quotes from that article Mormon-bashing, or are they the truth?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's taken from BOTW. The BOTW stuff is in bold. What they quote from other source is in plain text. I left the link out from the Jerusalem Post but you can hit the link for BOTW and then link through to JP if you want.
The Mormans I know don't live in Chicago.
To counter Scott H's statements I would have to say that I'd rather be stranded on an island with any of the atheist/agnostics I've met than any of the people that come to my door trying to convert me. Far more enjoyable and intelligent company!
<strong>I never understood why the left was so full of religious hatred?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not.
PS. What is "the left"?
Is it wrong to make a judgment about a group based on their culture?
What about militant Islamic culture?
<strong>I don't think my prejudice against Mormons is primarily religious. That may be part of it, but I think it's more social and cultural.
Is it wrong to make a judgment about a group based on their culture?
What about militant Islamic culture?</strong><hr></blockquote>
BRussell- I think you made your point. It your "observations" you have found Mormons to be no of your liking. I respect your forthrightness in coming out and explaining. I just wish others felt the same way. You don't HAVE to like people in this country...it's just nice to let people know up front. Hey, your opinions may change one day.
"I want to, but I can't."
"Well it's just one dinner. I just want to get to know you better, " my reply.
"But if I go to dinner with you once, I'll want to do it again, and that could cause problems for me."
Do you know how frustrating that is?! She liked me, yet because of her faith, she didn't feel we should start anything. That was right after 9/11. I think she's since gone on to get a Mormon boyfriend.
I do find their religion nothing short of bizarre. I find aspects of my own faith (Roman Catholic) bizarre as well though.
PS: their reported "cures" for homosexuality sound like they're out of a Clockwork Orange. But they wouldn't know would they?
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
<strong>Every religion is wacky to those who are not part of it. It shows something about your character when you discriminate against those of another religion. i thought liberals were open minded... guess i was wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yet I also think it shows something about character when it is the religion whom is doing the discriminating...
I'm not bashing them but what they believe is simply not true: Jesus didn't come to the Northern Hemisphere and the Indians aren't the lost tribe . . . .something that could probably be proved through genetics(?)
anyway, I know several ex-Mormons and they are very nice people. They are kind and thoughtful. They re really naive in a kind of milk-toast way but that is because they grew up very sheltered.
BUT:
I also know a person who is actually involved in the church of Satan.... Anton Levay's church.. and he too is a sweet, thoughtful person . . .and, allthough his naivety is all about being ultra 'jaded', he still is naive.
but he too is wrong . . . his church is just an excuse to be a power hungry, right wing (bet you didn't know that huh scott?) and think you look cool in black clothes.
In both cases there is a kind of sentiment of the superiority of their views (not with the ex-Mormons or else they would have stayed such, but it has much to do w/ their leaving): in the case of Mormons its all about being righteous and in the satanists ase its all about being scarrier than thou.
Also, I met Anton LeVays daughter at a party once . . .she seemed friendly and a bit shy . . .who'd a thought?!?!
<strong>I'm not Mormon, but I once tried to date a Mormon gal. I have to say she's one of the coolest people I've ever met. We hit it off really well. When I asked her out to dinner, this was her reply:
"I want to, but I can't."
"Well it's just one dinner. I just want to get to know you better, " my reply.
"But if I go to dinner with you once, I'll want to do it again, and that could cause problems for me."
Do you know how frustrating that is?! She liked me, yet because of her faith, she didn't feel we should start anything. That was right after 9/11. I think she's since gone on to get a Mormon boyfriend.
similar thing happened to me, I'm not a fan of mormons frankly because their religon is too funky if ya know what I mean, I usually just drink coffee and do other "taboos" when mormons come a knocking on my door
[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Wrong Robot ]</p>
<strong>I never understood why the left was so full of religious hatred?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dont take the comments of a single person and turn it into a mass generalization. I am an athiest however I have no hostility towards those who believe differntly than I. I simply accept their rights to believe whatever they want, as long as they do not force their beliefs down my throat. Generalizations do nobody good, and neither do insults.