You see Cydia and I guarantee that they also have the pirated software App store, which I won't name.
No jailbreaking equals no piracy.
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
Yes and no. My wife and I use different iTunes accounts because it worked better for something. Goofy stuff like that can push people to pirate a copy of software. There are a few paid apps both of us bought, but when you hit a certain price point it is a bit of an insult.
Actually my wife and I have different accounts as well. But so long as both are authenticated to each others accounts (computers that is) and you choose a "main" one for homesharing, it makes moving the iTunes content between each very very simple.
How is it that Apple, armed with what are probably billions of bright engineers, isn't able to create a "jail" that can't be broken in to?
Can't they use NSA-level encryption to secure whatever it is hackers need to jailbreak them? I suppose the adage "Anything is possible" is possible in these situations, but what makes it more miraculous is the fact that these jailbreaks occur days after an update is released, which supposedly has Apple's latest "jail keys."
Unless someone from inside Apple releases those keys?
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
Actually Cydia itself is far from pirating apps, its more about giving the user the apps that dont get blocked by politics and rules (AT&T's mostly)... last time I looked, you won't find pirated apps on Cydia... the tools to get you there, yes.
So some are suggesting that anyone who jailbreaks for multitasking or more commonly for unlocking the phone to use for example on T-Mobile is a pirate?
I don't have one pirate App Store application on my iPhone, but it is jailbroken on the T-Mobile network.
In addition, how are they counting what constitutes as a pirate copy? The fact that the software runs on a jailbroken iPhone? (I imagine some software can tell??). The fact that the software has only been paid for 5x but runs on 10 iPhones? Um, ask Apple about that because if I own 2 iPhones (or even one iPhone and an iPod Touch) I can sync my one purchase of the App to both devices. I am also not allowed to buy two copies for my one account.
While I'm sure there is piracy, I think as always the software companies overinflate it. I would love to know how they know the specifics of piracy.
How is it that Apple, armed with what are probably billions of bright engineers, isn't able to create a "jail" that can't be broken in to?
Can't they use NSA-level encryption to secure whatever it is hackers need to jailbreak them? I suppose the adage "Anything is possible" is possible in these situations, but what makes it more miraculous is the fact that these jailbreaks occur days after an update is released, which supposedly has Apple's latest "jail keys."
Unless someone from inside Apple releases those keys?
They could if they wanted to.... IMO the jailbreaks and community behind it are R&D they dont have to pay for. Believe me , they pay attention and learn from with the dev teams do
I think some of this piracy can be combated by offering trial period apps over Lite versions with limited functionality. I have pirated apps, for instance the $99 TomTom app because I wasn?t willing to fork over that much to test an app?s usability. I didn?t like it so I deleted it. I can many people doing this for much cheaper apps but then not deleting them.
By making it convenient to try out the app and then continue the use after the trial period is over I suspect devs will profit more. I?d think leaving the duration of the trial period up to the developer. It?s not unprecedented with FairPlay as Apple?s movie rentals use exploding DRM that seems to work out quite well.
It's funny you should mention the TomTom app. I went through almost the same thing, except legally. I couldn't decide between TomTom and Magellan without trying, so I bought the TomTom GPS. I didn't like it and thought it needed work, so I contacted Apple saying I wanted a refund because it didn't fit my needs. They refunded my $69.99 within 24hrs and I bought the Magellan app, which I loved. All of this was legal and done with an unbroken iPod Touch. I have received refunds for over 10 apps that I did not like or did not function as expected. Apple is willing to work with you if you have a genuine problem. (BTW, they refunded me directly to my credit card, not in iTunes cash.)
My thoughts--good for Apple. I'll keep paying as I am faithfully supported.
I don?t see what unlocking has to do with jailbreaking or how selling an unlocked iPhone would alter the price for ?all carriers? since pretty much all feasible carriers already offer the iPhone. Care to clarify?
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
two different games. not everyone that does one does the other.
If you bought the iPhone in the United States, where there is no official means to unlock it for use with any carrier other than AT&T, and you are intent on finding a way to use it with another carrier anyway, you are left with hacking the iPhone in order to perform the unlock.
Jailbreaking the iPhone is an unavoidable intermediate step in the process of such a hack.
So yes, everybody who does one (unlock) must necessarily do the other (jailbreak).
However, the reverse is not true - everybody who jailbreaks is not necessarily doing it so that they can unlock.
You may not and all the advocates of jailbreaking who will post swearing black and blue that they don't run pirated Apps or even look at the App which duplicates the App store functionality except with pirated Apps.
All these people with their heads in the sand and their feeble justifications.
It's about freedom...
...freedom of App store developers to profit from their work.
Jailbreaking takes some of that away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonMan
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
I bought my iPhone in Australia and it is officially unlocked, I can use any SIM I want and it has never been jailbroken.
There are several European countries which offer unlocked iPhones, Italy for example you could always buy one from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
It's funny you should mention the TomTom app. I went through almost the same thing, except legally. I couldn't decide between TomTom and Magellan without trying, so I bought the TomTom GPS. I didn't like it and thought it needed work, so I contacted Apple saying I wanted a refund because it didn't fit my needs. They refunded my $69.99 within 24hrs and I bought the Magellan app, which I loved. All of this was legal and done with an unbroken iPod Touch. I have received refunds for over 10 apps that I did not like or did not function as expected. Apple is willing to work with you if you have a genuine problem. (BTW, they refunded me directly to my credit card, not in iTunes cash.)
My thoughts--good for Apple. I'll keep paying as I am faithfully supported.
They are good about that. I once had a problem with a gifted TV Show from the iTS. Not only did they refund all the purchases to my account and all for the gift to go through, they even gave me 3 free shows to DL for myself. It was quite painless.
Despite that, I find having to go through that rigamarole of asking for a refund less convenient than simply testing a jailbroken app on my own. I think for everyone’s sake a developer set trail period would be a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
That does suck. In regards to distance, I can’t imagine having to change SIM cards simply because I drove to a different US city.
I would contend that most people jailbreak to get additional control over their phone in the way of software, not unlocking the firmware. For instance, I jailbreak for various reasons (none of them for stealing apps for the sake of stealing them) and I unlock so I can use tethering because AT&T doesn’t give me an option to pay for it.
Frankly, it's amazing like everything, which Apple does. Apple's eliminated absolutely all reasons to jailbreak. Under present conditions jailbreaking is clear sign of being rationally inept. And thieves jailbreak nevertheless! Unbelievable.
Frankly, it's amazing like everything, which Apple does. Apple's eliminated absolutely all reasons to jailbreak. Under present conditions jailbreaking is clear sign of being rationally inept. And thieves jailbreak nevertheless! Unbelievable.
“Absolutely every reason to jailbreak”? You are kidding, right? You can’t think of a single thing an jailbroken phone can do that doesn’t make the user irrational and inept? Sapprobaby pointed out this great lock screen app update the other day. I’ll wait to see if Apple includes something with iPhone OS 4.0 on Wednesday, if not I’ll spend the $5 for it. That is just one of many things.
?Absolutely every reason to jailbreak?? You are kidding, right? You can?t think of a single thing an jailbroken phone can do that doesn?t make the user irrational and inept? Sapprobaby pointed out this great lock screen app update the other day. I?ll wait to see if Apple includes something with iPhone OS 4.0 on Wednesday, if not I?ll spend the $5 for it. That is just one of many things.
Frankly, it's amazing like everything, which Apple does. Apple's eliminated absolutely all reasons to jailbreak. Under present conditions jailbreaking is clear sign of being rationally inept. And thieves jailbreak nevertheless! Unbelievable.
What about themes? Pointless right? No more pointless than a fart app...... what about tethering?
What about a decent video cam for pre 3GS phones? (one app store ones suck)... what about all the utilities ...
Sol! It's two button press, then use image as wallpaper. I always have present month calendar like that.
And you're ready to trade the support of Apple authorized carrier against this? It's rational ineptitude.
Use image as wallpaper? WTF are you taking about?
No, I?m not willing to give up AppleCare support, but I willing take the nearly non-existant risk that I?ll have to give my phone to Apple for repair without being able to restore the OS.
Comments
You see Cydia and I guarantee that they also have the pirated software App store, which I won't name.
No jailbreaking equals no piracy.
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
Yes and no. My wife and I use different iTunes accounts because it worked better for something. Goofy stuff like that can push people to pirate a copy of software. There are a few paid apps both of us bought, but when you hit a certain price point it is a bit of an insult.
Actually my wife and I have different accounts as well. But so long as both are authenticated to each others accounts (computers that is) and you choose a "main" one for homesharing, it makes moving the iTunes content between each very very simple.
Can't they use NSA-level encryption to secure whatever it is hackers need to jailbreak them? I suppose the adage "Anything is possible" is possible in these situations, but what makes it more miraculous is the fact that these jailbreaks occur days after an update is released, which supposedly has Apple's latest "jail keys."
Unless someone from inside Apple releases those keys?
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
Actually Cydia itself is far from pirating apps, its more about giving the user the apps that dont get blocked by politics and rules (AT&T's mostly)... last time I looked, you won't find pirated apps on Cydia... the tools to get you there, yes.
I don't have one pirate App Store application on my iPhone, but it is jailbroken on the T-Mobile network.
In addition, how are they counting what constitutes as a pirate copy? The fact that the software runs on a jailbroken iPhone? (I imagine some software can tell??). The fact that the software has only been paid for 5x but runs on 10 iPhones? Um, ask Apple about that because if I own 2 iPhones (or even one iPhone and an iPod Touch) I can sync my one purchase of the App to both devices. I am also not allowed to buy two copies for my one account.
While I'm sure there is piracy, I think as always the software companies overinflate it. I would love to know how they know the specifics of piracy.
How is it that Apple, armed with what are probably billions of bright engineers, isn't able to create a "jail" that can't be broken in to?
Can't they use NSA-level encryption to secure whatever it is hackers need to jailbreak them? I suppose the adage "Anything is possible" is possible in these situations, but what makes it more miraculous is the fact that these jailbreaks occur days after an update is released, which supposedly has Apple's latest "jail keys."
Unless someone from inside Apple releases those keys?
They could if they wanted to.... IMO the jailbreaks and community behind it are R&D they dont have to pay for. Believe me , they pay attention and learn from with the dev teams do
I think some of this piracy can be combated by offering trial period apps over Lite versions with limited functionality. I have pirated apps, for instance the $99 TomTom app because I wasn?t willing to fork over that much to test an app?s usability. I didn?t like it so I deleted it. I can many people doing this for much cheaper apps but then not deleting them.
By making it convenient to try out the app and then continue the use after the trial period is over I suspect devs will profit more. I?d think leaving the duration of the trial period up to the developer. It?s not unprecedented with FairPlay as Apple?s movie rentals use exploding DRM that seems to work out quite well.
It's funny you should mention the TomTom app. I went through almost the same thing, except legally. I couldn't decide between TomTom and Magellan without trying, so I bought the TomTom GPS. I didn't like it and thought it needed work, so I contacted Apple saying I wanted a refund because it didn't fit my needs. They refunded my $69.99 within 24hrs and I bought the Magellan app, which I loved. All of this was legal and done with an unbroken iPod Touch. I have received refunds for over 10 apps that I did not like or did not function as expected. Apple is willing to work with you if you have a genuine problem. (BTW, they refunded me directly to my credit card, not in iTunes cash.)
My thoughts--good for Apple. I'll keep paying as I am faithfully supported.
I don?t see what unlocking has to do with jailbreaking or how selling an unlocked iPhone would alter the price for ?all carriers? since pretty much all feasible carriers already offer the iPhone. Care to clarify?
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
two different games. not everyone that does one does the other.
If you bought the iPhone in the United States, where there is no official means to unlock it for use with any carrier other than AT&T, and you are intent on finding a way to use it with another carrier anyway, you are left with hacking the iPhone in order to perform the unlock.
Jailbreaking the iPhone is an unavoidable intermediate step in the process of such a hack.
So yes, everybody who does one (unlock) must necessarily do the other (jailbreak).
However, the reverse is not true - everybody who jailbreaks is not necessarily doing it so that they can unlock.
All these people with their heads in the sand and their feeble justifications.
It's about freedom...
...freedom of App store developers to profit from their work.
Jailbreaking takes some of that away.
Please don't paint all jailbreakers as pirates. I use a jailbroken device but I don't pirate any apps. I buy my apps from the Apple App Store and I use free and paid apps from Cydia.
But I can understand running the JB to take it to another carrier. You can't blame people for doing that
There are several European countries which offer unlocked iPhones, Italy for example you could always buy one from there.
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
It's funny you should mention the TomTom app. I went through almost the same thing, except legally. I couldn't decide between TomTom and Magellan without trying, so I bought the TomTom GPS. I didn't like it and thought it needed work, so I contacted Apple saying I wanted a refund because it didn't fit my needs. They refunded my $69.99 within 24hrs and I bought the Magellan app, which I loved. All of this was legal and done with an unbroken iPod Touch. I have received refunds for over 10 apps that I did not like or did not function as expected. Apple is willing to work with you if you have a genuine problem. (BTW, they refunded me directly to my credit card, not in iTunes cash.)
My thoughts--good for Apple. I'll keep paying as I am faithfully supported.
They are good about that. I once had a problem with a gifted TV Show from the iTS. Not only did they refund all the purchases to my account and all for the gift to go through, they even gave me 3 free shows to DL for myself. It was quite painless.
Despite that, I find having to go through that rigamarole of asking for a refund less convenient than simply testing a jailbroken app on my own. I think for everyone’s sake a developer set trail period would be a good thing.
If you spend lots of time in different countries, then you are going to want an unlocked phone -- not because your carrier of choice doesn't already offer the iPhone, but simply because you want to be "Carrierless."
I am a few minutes drive from another country, and less than three hours driving puts me in three more countries. I have relatives here in Europe that spend considerable time (weeks or months) in multiple countries per year. Having an unlocked phone means you can pop in a local pay-as-you-go SIM card; in order to have a local number and avoid long-distance/roaming charges, whereby your calls are bouncing back to your home country across the continent before reaching the guy just next door.
Having an unlocked phone is a real need for some people, simple as that. They are not interested in pirating software -- in fact they would like to use iTunes as normal, but run into problems since their phones are unlocked. This is why some countries like Germany (I think?)make it compulsory to provide unlocked phones.
That does suck. In regards to distance, I can’t imagine having to change SIM cards simply because I drove to a different US city.
I would contend that most people jailbreak to get additional control over their phone in the way of software, not unlocking the firmware. For instance, I jailbreak for various reasons (none of them for stealing apps for the sake of stealing them) and I unlock so I can use tethering because AT&T doesn’t give me an option to pay for it.
Frankly, it's amazing like everything, which Apple does. Apple's eliminated absolutely all reasons to jailbreak. Under present conditions jailbreaking is clear sign of being rationally inept. And thieves jailbreak nevertheless! Unbelievable.
“Absolutely every reason to jailbreak”? You are kidding, right? You can’t think of a single thing an jailbroken phone can do that doesn’t make the user irrational and inept? Sapprobaby pointed out this great lock screen app update the other day. I’ll wait to see if Apple includes something with iPhone OS 4.0 on Wednesday, if not I’ll spend the $5 for it. That is just one of many things.
?Absolutely every reason to jailbreak?? You are kidding, right? You can?t think of a single thing an jailbroken phone can do that doesn?t make the user irrational and inept? Sapprobaby pointed out this great lock screen app update the other day. I?ll wait to see if Apple includes something with iPhone OS 4.0 on Wednesday, if not I?ll spend the $5 for it. That is just one of many things.
Sol! It's two button press, then use image as wallpaper. I always have present month calendar like that.
And you're ready to trade the support of Apple authorized carrier against this? It's rational ineptitude.
Frankly, it's amazing like everything, which Apple does. Apple's eliminated absolutely all reasons to jailbreak. Under present conditions jailbreaking is clear sign of being rationally inept. And thieves jailbreak nevertheless! Unbelievable.
What about themes? Pointless right? No more pointless than a fart app...... what about tethering?
What about a decent video cam for pre 3GS phones? (one app store ones suck)... what about all the utilities ...
Sol! It's two button press, then use image as wallpaper. I always have present month calendar like that.
And you're ready to trade the support of Apple authorized carrier against this? It's rational ineptitude.
Use image as wallpaper? WTF are you taking about?
No, I?m not willing to give up AppleCare support, but I willing take the nearly non-existant risk that I?ll have to give my phone to Apple for repair without being able to restore the OS.