Apple removes display of Adobe Flash content from iPad promos

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  • Reply 101 of 139
    nkhmnkhm Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Wrong. I want Flash because Flash content is already there. I'm all for Apple and others scrapping Flash once web replaces it with something better, but until that happens Flash is standard, and I want it.



    If I have to sacrifice couple of years of full web experience just to help Apple kill Flash - no thanks. I'm not paid to be antiFlash revolution flag bearer.



    Proprietary? C'mon. iPhone syncing with computer through iTunes is proprietary. I'm not complaining (much!) as long as it does what I require from it. Whole IT industry is full of proprietary. If it works fine for my needs, I don't mind. If not, I'd grow beard and do Linux only.



    Additionally, as it was mentioned before - Flash exclusion from iPhone/iPod/iPad could easily be attempt to kill access to free Flash games and apps, favouring Application Store. I am far from convinced that publishing of great Flash plug-in would open iDevices to Flash.



    my point re. proprietary is that by keeping the software closed, the flash issue is one for Adobe to sort - I wasn't saying proprietary is good/bad, just that by it's very nature, proprietary software is the responsibility of the manufacturer. I don't see why people have an issue with companies operating at a profit - these people work hard, they're entitled to charge for their output.



    There are plenty of fways to access free content out there that don't use flash and aren't restricted by Apple. This is not a profit issue for Apple, it's about stability, security and user experience.



    There are plenty of current, viable, up and running ways to present video online that don't involve flash - BBC iPlayer does it, Youtube does it - it's not a case of waiting for anything new to come along. Hulu are working on it and will be up and running my March I bet.
  • Reply 102 of 139
    nkhmnkhm Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The iPad is becoming big news the problem is the big news is its lack of features. Right now the iPad is known more for what it can't do rather then what it can.



    Only because of people like you. Myself and my friends, colleagues love it because of what it can do.



    The only things I'm aware of that people think are 'missing' are the flash plug in and a front facing camera.



    Well, the camera would be a nice addition, but it's not something required for the 'pads stated use, and I can't see this working in anything other than a standard laptop/desktop ergonomic.



    The lack of Flash is the fault of Adobe. Apple can't work with Adobe on Adobe's proprietary software. If Adobe open the source, then sure - others can work on it, but the way it is Adobe are fully responsible for their own product. I've yet to see flash work on a cell-phone/smart phone. My nexus won't run it properly, my HTC hero couldn't use it properly and my samsung netbook can't run it properly. I don't see Apple as the common link from my personal experience - I see a terrible piece of software from Adobe as the issue.



    Web, Email, Music, eBook Reader, create work in iWork, attach your digital camera, user your existing blue tooth keyboard if you want, SD and USB adapters, digital photoframe, built in mic and speaker, 10 hours battery life, 140+ hours for music playback alone. All for $10 more than a kindle DX.



    Get real - this product will be known very quickly for what it can do.
  • Reply 103 of 139
    nkhmnkhm Posts: 928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    I'm just saying: let the customers decide not one CEO. It should be clear why Jobs doesn't like Flash: free games!



    There are plenty of Free games on the App Store, there are plenty of free games available on the mac platform, this really is a stupid statement.
  • Reply 104 of 139
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nineteen88 View Post


    What if Apple structs a deal with Microsoft, Bing for iPhone OS devices, in exchange for full support of HTML5 Video on IE .. Apple would kill two birds with one stone!



    I believe this kind of deal is very, very possible.



    Microsoft wants to kill Google, Apple wants to kill flash .. You see?



    Microsoft wants to push Silverlight down our throats. HTML5 wont help its agenda.
  • Reply 105 of 139
    nceencee Posts: 857member
    And if Apple purchased Adobe, they would get the coding for Flash, be able to fix, or streamline it.



    Heck, if they want, they can call it "the all new Flash" or "Flash as it was meant to be" Hell call it what they want, but fix it, change it, do what is needed to stop this war, confusion, pain in the ass.



    There are times when it gets real old real fast, seeing folks force their thoughts and beliefs on us. If Steve and company think they have a better mouse trap, then give it to us - Damn it! If not, shit up, and use what is currently being used.



    Have a disclaimer with your products if you feel you must.



    "The iPad, iPod, iPhone and Mac Laptops battery life is rated at 10 hours +-. Battery life will be MUCH less when viewing web site that use a flash component. So don't come crying to us if your battery only last 2-4 hours while surfing the web and enjoying all those cool web sites that use flash - we warned you!"



    Until folks go the their local church, and it's Steve's picture and not God's, maybe he needs to come off his high horse, just for awhile.



    Steve and company have done a simply amazing "Job" at all the wonderful toys, tools they have created for us, but all this does, is make him (and company), some very talented, very bright, very forward thinking individuals, not Gods.



    What would it cost (except battery life) to have the iPad, iPods, iPhones, use Flash for now, and when you or Adobe have a better one, you get to come out of the "New and exciting update". Yu get to have a 2 hour show for the media and others to marvel at the speed at which things happen now, and how all of this happens without draining the battery.



    Skip
  • Reply 106 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crossuab View Post


    I agree, but if the vast majority of the web uses flash...



    That simply isn't true. And even if it were, I've seen very few websites that couldn't be easily redesigned without it.
  • Reply 107 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    Why can't people decide them self if they want Flash or not? Why do you want Steve Jobs tell you what you can or can't do? Seriously, that's called "Stockholm syndrome".



    Cod-psychology phrases don't make your point any less wrong.



    Quote:

    I'm not a fan of Flash. Even on a desktop OS. But Flash is a part of the web so a web device should support it. Period. If Flash is buggy on Mac OS (and iPhone OS) Apple should work together with Adobe to fix it. If you don't want it, OK, just disable it.



    It's not Apples job to fix Adobe's crappy code, it's just bizarre to think otherwise. If Adobe can't write code it's their own problem. Would you have Microsoft working on iTunes for Windows too?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Spot on.



    I'm getting tired of people telling me how bad Flash is. It is one of the most common web standards today. I can live without it on small iPhone screen, as I browse on iPhone mostly for (text) information. But on full screen device like iPad, capable of presenting web page without constant zooming in and out, omission of Flash is big problem for me.



    Flash is *not* a web standard, it's Adobe's proprietary technology.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Flash is old and crappy? So is English. Or Chinese - that alphabet is nightmare. Lets scrap them and move whole world to Esperanto. It's modern language, easy to learn, fluid and efficient.



    That's the most ridiculous - and desperate - argument I've ever seen. I'm impressed you managed to come up with something that stupid. Read slowly - Flash is not needed. You don't need Flash to provide interactive web pages. Flash doesn't do anything you can't do with *actual* web standards. It's bloated, non-standard, insecure, unstable and. not. needed.



    Quote:

    I don't think Apple can bully web into ditching Flash any time soon. Flash will be around long time after this generation of iPad gets redundant.



    The web is already ditching it. Flash has less than five years. Be prepared to wave it goodbye.
  • Reply 108 of 139
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    I just installed ClickToFlash.

    http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/

    If you don't like Flash, this little app lets advertisers know how you feel.



    C.
  • Reply 109 of 139
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Wrong. I want Flash because Flash content is already there. I'm all for Apple and others scrapping Flash once web replaces it with something better, but until that happens Flash is standard, and I want it.



    So how are those floppy drives and parallel ports working out for you?



    Sometimes, vendors have to push change rather than sitting idly by.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/4314276957/ shows that only two of them are valid, Farmville and Hulu. And Hulu's CEO has more or less said, he's coming to the iPhone/iPad. So we're left with Farmville.



    Which is great news - and supports Apple's position fully. Odds are that Apple knew that before announcing the iPad. There are very few sites that require flash to work at all and I can live without most of them.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleEater View Post


    [Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG with Steve Jobs for him to overlook how STUPID an iPAD presentation is "without" an "Adobe Flash" component on the front page of the New York Times demo he gave and with Apple for not catching the glitch that this creates in their web site demo and online marketing.



    Or maybe it was intentional. Notice that later in the presentation, Jobs was using NYT without the annoying lego. NYT is creating its own native app without Flash and Jobs apparently had access to it. The message was to developers - 'You can live without Flash'.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The iPad is becoming big news the problem is the big news is its lack of features. Right now the iPad is known more for what it can't do rather then what it can.



    Just the like iPod will never sell because it lacks an FM tuner. And no one would ever buy a computer without a floppy drive. And every computer must come with a separate CPU and monitor - selling an AIO without a separate monitor would never work.



    Lots of whiners complain about what's missing'. OTOH, there are millions of people out there just waiting for the day the iPad hits the Apple Store.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    I'm just saying: let the customers decide not one CEO. It should be clear why Jobs doesn't like Flash: free games!



    Jobs has publicly stated that it's due to crashes and poor performance. Do you have evidence that he's lying? If so, you'd better report it to the SEC since that would be a felony.
  • Reply 110 of 139
    xgmanxgman Posts: 159member
    All of these flash haters in here are just sipping on Steve Job's coolaid. I don't take these comments seriously. If flash is so bad why do they allow it on OSX? Lots of things today will get replaced with lots of other things tomorrow, but Flash isn't going anywhere any time soon. This is obvioulsy some sort of a dispute between Apple and Adobe, nothing more....
  • Reply 111 of 139
    [QUOTE=TenoBell;1563355]The great majority of the web doesn't use Flash for anything that is actually useful outside of video. Mobile optimized sites and mobile apps have all adopted H.264 for video streaming. So its all working the way Apple wants it to.



    I am a big fan of Apple...in fact, I've never even owned a PC. So any criticism of this new product is out of a desire to see the firm succeed. Might be a surprise to some, but there is a lot more to the internet than streaming video. Objectively, many useful things outside of video DO run on Flash. One example is this simple retirement planner:

    https://us.etrade.com/e/t/plan/retirement/quickplanapp



    Now, aside from the talk of how buggy Flash may be, can someone tell me if something similar to this can be done via HTML5, or some other technology? What about Disney's site...it's swimming in Flash. If I get one of these things, I'll enjoy the pleasure of explaining to my wife and two kids, "Well, Apple decided it's not worth the trouble to make these things work with [fill in the blank]'s site." And when my kids are old enough to buy a computer, they'll remember 'that iPad-thing' that showed websites with blue lego's all over them.



    There's little doubt in my mind that if Steve really wanted this to happen, he'd call up Adobe and say "let's get 10 of our engineers and 10 of your engineers in a room and make this thing happen." Otherwise, this is in no way the "best" internet experience.



    Peace be with you,

    crf
  • Reply 112 of 139
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Yes and No.



    Yes there are alternatives to some of the functionality of Flash. No HTML5 cannot yet replace all of the current functionality of Flash. But its coming.



    But this is how new technology displaces old technology. You have to just stop using the old technology.



    Disney and all the rest don't have any particular loyalty to Flash or Adobe. They are doing what they need to do to reach the largest audience. Over the past few years Flash was the best way to accomplish that goal. Times change, Flash has not changed with the times, and there are better alternatives, everyone will adapt.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cfountain72 View Post


    Now, aside from the talk of how buggy Flash may be, can someone tell me if something similar to this can be done via HTML5, or some other technology? What about Disney's site...it's swimming in Flash. If I get one of these things, I'll enjoy the pleasure of explaining to my wife and two kids, "Well, Apple decided it's not worth the trouble to make these things work with [fill in the blank]'s site." And when my kids are old enough to buy a computer, they'll remember 'that iPad-thing' that showed websites with blue lego's all over them.



  • Reply 114 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Good, we don't need flash.



    Want 75 million iPhone OS users visiting and using your site?



    Dump Flash or provide alternatives.



    Adapt or lose.



    First. In your sig. If you drop 3g and go to edge, guess what, no net maps while on a call.



    Flash is used on 75% of the net. Every tv network or cable uses it.

    Sorry but 75% of the world is not interested. While I'll probably get one for kicks plus the underground will make flash work, I'll probably wait till rev 2 and while waiting veerly state my idea of streaming is not you tube. The audience was very silent. They are fed up it seems with apple charging for what should be free.



    READ IT AGAIN 75 % of all sites use flash.

    100% of entertainment companies use it.



    Worse. Google will ipad suceed. I have never, ever seen so much predeictiom of failure but some of you really have to realize that holding a lock box that plays 25%, maybe, of the Internet IS NOT HOLDING THE INTERNET IN YOUR HANDS and forget about news and most sports, they all use flash. Flash isn't going anywhere. Especially in the areas if gaming and children. They have some of the best free gMes out there.

    Take care. Hope Apple wakes up.
  • Reply 115 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Yes and No.



    Yes there are alternatives to some of the functionality of Flash. No HTML5 cannot yet replace all of the current functionality of Flash. But its coming.



    But this is how new technology displaces old technology. You have to just stop using the old technology.



    Times change, Flash has not changed with the times, and there are better alternatives, everyone will adapt.



    Thanks for your reply, but no, it's not that easy to stop using existing technology. Firms invest hundreds of thousands (sometimes millions) of dollars in hiring, training, and licenses around particular technologies. Mind you, this (Flash) is a technology that apears to offer the required aesthetic flexibility for these companies. The simple fact is that it works fine for 95% of the folks they are trying to reach. You can't just 'stop using it' unless you have a compelling alternative that can be used productively by the folks already on your payroll. Otherwise, you are talking about creating an entire department from scratch to create iPad-friendly websites? (Notice, I didn't say Apps, but websites.)

    So, my question stands: "What is this 'better' alternative?"
  • Reply 116 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cfountain72 View Post


    So, my question stands: "What is this 'better' alternative?"



    For Video - h.264 is clearly a better alternative.



    Not only does the video look better (Because Flash video is not synced and has tearing and other visual problems)



    But h.264 is decoded and scaled in hardware. Which means you can watch it without red-lining your CPU and draining batteries.



    For those important annoying banner apps, HTML5 is becoming a viable alternative. And again HTML5 renders 3D elements and polygons on the GPU - making a much better choice for mobile devices.



    I don't think this will kill Flash overnight. But the increasing number of Flash-free browsers will compel advertisers and content providers to offer an alternate means of delivery.



    This is already happening.



    C.
  • Reply 117 of 139
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Not really, most of us know these complaints are coming from people who complain about Apple no matter what Apple does. The people complaining have never even touched an iPad.



    What they don't seem to realize is that Apple has only given superficial information about the iPad. There is a lot more to know and Jobs purposely didn't tell us everything. The likely reason he did not tell us everything is because its being saved for OS 4.0.



    Actually I think he's refering too outside mac websites and its true. Many websites are saying what it can or cannot do with most ending on a negative note. Wow. J

    think of all the headaches avoided if they just had a regular browser with flash.



    At the Special Event I heard moaning when they mentioned art and silence when there should have been clapping. It started right when Steve was showing of the web, it showed a bliebix( missing flash), then he said iTunes was built right in soyou can BUY. TV shows. Free online with OSX. And with theittke memory the ipad does have just one season of a show would take upa Loy of space vs free via flash or 300mb via xvid.



    Whatever. We shall see.
  • Reply 118 of 139
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    Love or hate Flash, that doesn't matter.



    Thousands of sites use Flash. Interactive presentations, interactive experiences, zillions of games.

    You can't code those in HTML5. It's like everyone is saying that HTML5 is the new Flash. Bullocks.



    Uncle Steve wants to keep out all these Flash games and videos so people are forced to buy/download them using iTunes, AppStore and what-have-you.



    I love the Mac platform, but the iEcosystem is getting on my nerves.
  • Reply 119 of 139
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Why don't you go check how other OS's are treated by Adobe, Linux or BeOS for example.



    Adobe seems to have the attitude that as long as it works on Windows, stuff everyone else.



    ADOBE WE WANT EFFICIENT 64BIT FLASH ON ALL OUR SYSTEMS AND WE WANT IT NOW, OTHERWISE WE WILL CONDEMN YOU TO THE DUSTBIN OF HISTORY!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xgman View Post


    All of these flash haters in here are just sipping on Steve Job's coolaid. I don't take these comments seriously. If flash is so bad why do they allow it on OSX? Lots of things today will get replaced with lots of other things tomorrow, but Flash isn't going anywhere any time soon. This is obvioulsy some sort of a dispute between Apple and Adobe, nothing more....



  • Reply 120 of 139
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Where I live and work and all points in between I have 100% 3G coverage, it's around me 100 miles in every direction except for out in the ocean.



    What's this edge you are babbling about?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post


    First. In your sig. If you drop 3g and go to edge, guess what, no net maps while on a call.



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