That's a pretty terrible post. You're mixing several issues and pulling some stuff directly out of your rear end, but hidden in there is a good point.
First of all, Steve Jobs wasn't fired from Apple for creating an 'evil closed-box policies' and he certainly isn't going to get fired now after turning Apple around from being virtually bankrupt to one of the most profitable companies in the industry. I know some Apple fans seem to yearn for the days when Apple was 'nice' and run like a Charity, but if you're going to be locked into something, it might as well be something that's going to last.
When you (and Tekstud) say "we wanted a small Mac", who's "we" in this instance. I don't want a small Mac, I have one. Why do I want a Core 2 Duo to makes notes on and read static text? I wanted an eReader that isn't crap and can do a few other things (iWork for one isn't bad, just think you can do observational experiments, make notes, capture data...).
Your exaggerations do you no credit either. You imply a Core i5 (4 threads) netbook with 640GBs HDD and 8GB of RAM for $499... I'd love to see that...
Your final point about this ecosystem eventually replacing the Mac and thus locking everyone either in or out, depending on your point of view, is actually a good point and is almost lost in the other drivel you posted to get to it. It's possible Apple are driving to that point, but there is a significant gulf between OS X and iPhone OS (whatever Apple claims) and we're at least a decade away from that kind of convergence, but it's an interesting thought, nonetheless. One you should have made at the start of your post and then stopped typing...
Awful mean spirited post- so much rambling and such little sense. He and I are not the only ones who have little regard for this PAD. Have you read anywhere else besides the Mac websites?
And he's absolutely right. The locking out of everything else like what the AppleTV did - ruined it. It's basically dead.
I don't know anybody who wanted what's basically another extension of the iTunes Store except for yourself.
It will not be popular because Tablets have never been very popular. Its not powerful, its not a full functioning computer, its nothing more then a large iPod Touch.
The list of feature that it lacks is larger then the features it has. Like I have said before all the fanboys were talking about how "Slate" computing was going to take over notebooks now the koolaid mix is simply to have something to kill the Kindle. For users that already own a notebook and smartphone this is a nothing product.
Nothing more than a large iPod Touch is considerably more than you seem able to comprehend. The Touch is used for browsing, reading, gaming, media playback, and various other activities. Every one of those will be enhanced significantly on a device with a much larger screen. In other words, yes, you're right, it is a large iPod Touch, so what's your point?
You don't actually cook, do you? From a cooks point of view, a microwave is still a rather limited speciality device even now more than 40 years later. The microwave hasn't swept away the oven or the stove. It's great for warming things up, but for actually making stuff: the old school devices still rule roost.
From Apple's perspective that's a good thing. They make a lot of money selling world class stoves. But 90% of households have a microwave. Apple sure would like to sell a lot of those too without losing any stove or oven sales.
Somehow, openness seems to be a virtue to some people, like a mantra. It's not. People want to do certain things. If what they buy can do these things, then they're satisfied. If it does it well, they're happy. If it also gives them pleasure when doing it, they're ecstatic.
Most people don't need what we think of as open computing. Most people buy very few programs, and do very little. If this does that for them, it may be all they'll need. It's too small for most people's main computer, but then, the definition of what someone's main computer is, is changing.
Who would have thought, just a few years ago, that so many people would be using a 13" notebook as their only machine? It certainly didn't occur to me.
So if all you do is to browse the web, IM, read and write e-mail, do some shopping, read books and magazines and watch some video and listen to music; then you may not need much more than this. Even if you do your school assignments, you may not need more. We'll have to see about printing, but that may not be a problem. We know it will work with networked printers, or printers with WiFi supposedly.
I have to assume, going by the way Apple advances their products, that more complex functions are not out of the question.
For some people, it is not that black and white.
For example, I'm happy with iPhone - it does most of the things I expect from handheld device. But. One of the most common things I'm using it for is reading with Stanza, and whenever I have to copy an old ebook from my PC to iPhone, I have to open ebook on desktop Stanza, "share" it and wirelessly transfer it to iPhone.
Is it really that bad? Well, no - I still need less than a minute to transfer a book that I will read for days, so I can't say that effort is not making it worth it. But would I like to be able to just drag and drop my books to iPhone? Hell, yea. Or at least to queue them in iTunes and transfer next time I do syncing.
So even if I can live with that, it is ruining my enjoyment in using iPhone. It is not simple and elegant. for people without wireless at home, it is also impossible.
There are other little things and perks that I don't like even if I can make it around them, but this one I face more often.
Nothing more than a large iPod Touch is considerably more than you seem able to comprehend. The Touch is used for browsing, reading, gaming, media playback, and various other activities. Every one of those will be enhanced significantly on a device with a much larger screen. In other words, yes, you're right, it is a large iPod Touch, so what's your point?
The touch also fits in your pocket, allowing it to transparently go wherever you go. The iPad needs a bag to lug around.
Two wedges in that graph represent not interested. When you add them together they end up being about the same as before. More people went from maybe to definitely. This is an Apple fan site. You should be manipulating the stats in Apples favor, not manipulating them against Apple.
I'm definitely buying one when the 3G model comes out. You can count me in the tiny wedge. I think that if 9 percent of all people polled are definitely planning to buy, that is pretty good.
Its difficult to believe your kids will only play online Flash games. They really find carrying around an HP mini tethered to an iPhone the best way to play games?
Its difficult to believe they would absolutely refuse to play native games on an iPad, which does not require a wireless connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
HP mini 10 with Win 7. All for $249. The point is, this would be an awesome device for my kids but most, if not all the internet games the play are flash. A Little jailbreak here and they can tether off my iPhone while we travel. Works great. No matter what the iPad will not be able too do this for them. If it simply had flash, I could see buying two just for them.
I'm actually surprised that there is not more outcry/complaining that Apple is moving down the road of an OS that's completely locked away from the user and forcing them to only run applications that Apple deems are 'good' to run. This is fine when we're talking about a cell phone that we might pay $200 for with a subsidy from AT&T (Generalizing on the price) but when someone's dropping close to $1k for a device, I would assume that they'd be able to have the ability to choose 'what' they want to run on it.
Additionally - do we as users of such devices want to start showing manufacturers in general that we're fine with them taking choice away when we install applications?
There are advantages to going down the road Apple is taking. I think a lot of people see that. I am happy they are not going down the same path as the PS3 and Xbox. There is low barrier to entry, so the indies are treated the same as the big publishers. It is particularly nice for indies because they don't have to worry about marketing, hosting, or payment processing. I think Apple's path is the reason there is so much software on the App Store. Everybody wins except software pirates, Richard Stallman, and the mature print industry.
It has been introduced, sure enough, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it has been unveiled. We still don't know what version of the iPhone OS it will be running at release, what iBooks will be available - textbooks are the one I'd watch for, what apps and what additional accessories, if any, may be available at release. It's like judging a movie via its trailer, you've got an idea - perhaps a good one, but you really don't know. Apps made the iPhone.
As for folks losing interest - worry not, once these puppies start showing up in Starbucks... it needs a camera though.
It is amazing what the little fanboys here will believe in. They actually think the iPad is more than an iPod Touch. Not everything from Apple becomes popular.
What amazes me as an apple fan who prefered when everything was put together here in the US, is that just a week ago everyone was pleading for a non large iPod and in a way, that's what we got. How can this be Job's greatest prized possession, no way, at least "as-is" which angers me as the underground crew will make it super cool I bet, even better if it were OSX lite and we all know Apple will release a better version down the road, and we'll spend for it
this time, I'm waiting until rev 3 at least or at least see what's in the works with other companies have coming. Looks like cool stuff coming this way. I still think the MacBook pro is a great machine (express slot version for esata or 3rd party plug INS).
The iPad would have been a miracle machine had it had all the technology and performed all the tasks the hyper ventilating technoheads foretold. This is the hangover. I think it will sell phenomenally but its true potential will become apparent over time. Within a year or two this thing will be huge.
Exactly. Rev 3 will be what 1 should have been instead of milking us for all that money.
Speaking of a broken record....do you have a cushioned seat on that bandwagon?
I have no doubt the iPad will sell millions. There are a lot of people out there looking for a color screened eBook reader. Not me, I want a little more from the device than just browsing the web and reading books.
To me the iPad is like the first generation iPhone, it was a revolutionary piece of crap. When the 3GS came along I grabbed one knowing it was finally a great device. Same thing with the iPad...I'll buy the third version.
Exactly. Rev 3 will be what 1 should have been instead of milking us for all that money.
I don't believe that's what he meant. I believe he meant what I did, about accessories, apps and content. As I said, apps made the iPhone. When folks are judging it on having held and used it, or seen a friend with it, rather than a mere photo or YouTube video.
The third version won't be what the first should have been as although there exist examples to the contrary Apple tends to learn quick, I imagine version two will be what the first should have been. Look at the iPhone 3G. Even then, with such long battery life, I can see an immediate use in my life already when it comes to travel. Not that I shall rush to buy, no, as I'm waiting to see what content will be available to push me over the edge.
For me, textbooks are key. I've never liked them on a dedicated reader or on a laptop. Who carries two laptops, or a laptop and an extra LCD display, to write a paper in a library? Command-tabbing between Word and Adobe Reader? No thank you. So I stick with paper, but ebooks cost a lot less, could weigh a lot less and if available on the iPad, well shoot, that'd easily save me money in the long run. Probably would make note taking a heck of a lot easier too.
Or you could focus on those who will get one. On the first question it went from 3% to 9%, a 200% increase. On the second question, 3% to 5%, a 66% increase. Let's parse the 'After' numbers some more. From the upper chart box 82% of surveyed said they heard of the iPad. From the lower chart box, 5% of that 82% said they definitely need one. So through the magic of multiplication we can infer that 4.1 percent of those surveyed said they definitely need an iPad. The estimated U.S. adult population as of March 2004 is 217 million. 4.1% of that is 8.9 million who say they definitely need an iPad. How are those numbers looking now? For a brand new product category with a product that practically no one has tried out yet, I'd say those numbers are pretty good.
Still, even with those numbers, the survey is really useless until someone puts it in context. What's the survey profile for other products? And what was actual sales performance compared to the survey numbers?
For a tech writer, the author is pretty innumerate. Either that or just intellectually dishonest for the sake of sensation. Don't know which is worse.
That's an excellent point. Devs will hardly scoff at an audience of ten milllion. And the snowball rolls...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
It's easy to lose interest in something you can't buy.
Apple needs to stop this nonsense of debuting a product and then saying it will be available X months later.
People show as much interest in the iPad as the Apple TV, which Apple never advertises and word of mouth is not working. If Apple is going to keep public interest up, they are going to have to either debut it again or start advertising it.
Yeah, I don't really get the AppleTV thing either. I want to believe its some sort of placeholder for yet another revolutionary product that changes the way we use media.
Apple sold a version of the iPod Touch which had a bluetooth chip inside without telling purchasers. They then later said they could activate the bluetooth by paying $10 for new firmware.
Do you imply that Apple did this to rip its customers off?
Also your remark is factual wrong. iPod touch owners could pay $10 to upgrade the whole OS, of which bluetooth is only a tiny fraction.
The upgrade added several bluetooth profiles that made sense for the iPod touch like peer to peer networking etc. The previous iPhone OS did have several bluetooth profiles but they were only 'phone related' and not useful for the iPod touch.
So Apple had to develop its buetooth software (drivers) and made this functionality available as soon as it was ready.
And as a rule Apple doesn't tell exactly what hardware is used to make a product. But Apples product specification is very clear. In this case Apple didn't advertise bluetooth as a feature for the second generation iPod touch, but after the OS update it did have that feature. This should be a pleasant surprise instead of the very negative 'they ripped me off' reaction.
And last but not least, Apple didn't even want to charge for the OS upgrade but had to because of a US trade regulation.
Comments
That's a pretty terrible post. You're mixing several issues and pulling some stuff directly out of your rear end, but hidden in there is a good point.
First of all, Steve Jobs wasn't fired from Apple for creating an 'evil closed-box policies' and he certainly isn't going to get fired now after turning Apple around from being virtually bankrupt to one of the most profitable companies in the industry. I know some Apple fans seem to yearn for the days when Apple was 'nice' and run like a Charity, but if you're going to be locked into something, it might as well be something that's going to last.
When you (and Tekstud) say "we wanted a small Mac", who's "we" in this instance. I don't want a small Mac, I have one. Why do I want a Core 2 Duo to makes notes on and read static text? I wanted an eReader that isn't crap and can do a few other things (iWork for one isn't bad, just think you can do observational experiments, make notes, capture data...).
Your exaggerations do you no credit either. You imply a Core i5 (4 threads) netbook with 640GBs HDD and 8GB of RAM for $499... I'd love to see that...
Your final point about this ecosystem eventually replacing the Mac and thus locking everyone either in or out, depending on your point of view, is actually a good point and is almost lost in the other drivel you posted to get to it. It's possible Apple are driving to that point, but there is a significant gulf between OS X and iPhone OS (whatever Apple claims) and we're at least a decade away from that kind of convergence, but it's an interesting thought, nonetheless. One you should have made at the start of your post and then stopped typing...
Awful mean spirited post- so much rambling and such little sense. He and I are not the only ones who have little regard for this PAD. Have you read anywhere else besides the Mac websites?
And he's absolutely right. The locking out of everything else like what the AppleTV did - ruined it. It's basically dead.
I don't know anybody who wanted what's basically another extension of the iTunes Store except for yourself.
It will not be popular because Tablets have never been very popular. Its not powerful, its not a full functioning computer, its nothing more then a large iPod Touch.
The list of feature that it lacks is larger then the features it has. Like I have said before all the fanboys were talking about how "Slate" computing was going to take over notebooks now the koolaid mix is simply to have something to kill the Kindle. For users that already own a notebook and smartphone this is a nothing product.
Nothing more than a large iPod Touch is considerably more than you seem able to comprehend. The Touch is used for browsing, reading, gaming, media playback, and various other activities. Every one of those will be enhanced significantly on a device with a much larger screen. In other words, yes, you're right, it is a large iPod Touch, so what's your point?
Would you prefer they sample at the Apple store or MacWorld readers?
I can see you are trying to get to the 4,000+ comments you had on your previous account and with same old BS and crap humor
You don't actually cook, do you? From a cooks point of view, a microwave is still a rather limited speciality device even now more than 40 years later. The microwave hasn't swept away the oven or the stove. It's great for warming things up, but for actually making stuff: the old school devices still rule roost.
From Apple's perspective that's a good thing. They make a lot of money selling world class stoves. But 90% of households have a microwave. Apple sure would like to sell a lot of those too without losing any stove or oven sales.
Somehow, openness seems to be a virtue to some people, like a mantra. It's not. People want to do certain things. If what they buy can do these things, then they're satisfied. If it does it well, they're happy. If it also gives them pleasure when doing it, they're ecstatic.
Most people don't need what we think of as open computing. Most people buy very few programs, and do very little. If this does that for them, it may be all they'll need. It's too small for most people's main computer, but then, the definition of what someone's main computer is, is changing.
Who would have thought, just a few years ago, that so many people would be using a 13" notebook as their only machine? It certainly didn't occur to me.
So if all you do is to browse the web, IM, read and write e-mail, do some shopping, read books and magazines and watch some video and listen to music; then you may not need much more than this. Even if you do your school assignments, you may not need more. We'll have to see about printing, but that may not be a problem. We know it will work with networked printers, or printers with WiFi supposedly.
I have to assume, going by the way Apple advances their products, that more complex functions are not out of the question.
For some people, it is not that black and white.
For example, I'm happy with iPhone - it does most of the things I expect from handheld device. But. One of the most common things I'm using it for is reading with Stanza, and whenever I have to copy an old ebook from my PC to iPhone, I have to open ebook on desktop Stanza, "share" it and wirelessly transfer it to iPhone.
Is it really that bad? Well, no - I still need less than a minute to transfer a book that I will read for days, so I can't say that effort is not making it worth it. But would I like to be able to just drag and drop my books to iPhone? Hell, yea. Or at least to queue them in iTunes and transfer next time I do syncing.
So even if I can live with that, it is ruining my enjoyment in using iPhone. It is not simple and elegant. for people without wireless at home, it is also impossible.
There are other little things and perks that I don't like even if I can make it around them, but this one I face more often.
Nothing more than a large iPod Touch is considerably more than you seem able to comprehend. The Touch is used for browsing, reading, gaming, media playback, and various other activities. Every one of those will be enhanced significantly on a device with a much larger screen. In other words, yes, you're right, it is a large iPod Touch, so what's your point?
The touch also fits in your pocket, allowing it to transparently go wherever you go. The iPad needs a bag to lug around.
The touch also fits in your pocket, allowing it to transparently go wherever you go. The iPad needs a bag to lug around.
no it doesn't, you get one of these and carry it like a book.
Kids can toss them in their book bags, business people can toss them in their briefcases.
I'm definitely buying one when the 3G model comes out. You can count me in the tiny wedge. I think that if 9 percent of all people polled are definitely planning to buy, that is pretty good.
Its difficult to believe they would absolutely refuse to play native games on an iPad, which does not require a wireless connection.
HP mini 10 with Win 7. All for $249. The point is, this would be an awesome device for my kids but most, if not all the internet games the play are flash. A Little jailbreak here and they can tether off my iPhone while we travel. Works great. No matter what the iPad will not be able too do this for them. If it simply had flash, I could see buying two just for them.
I'm actually surprised that there is not more outcry/complaining that Apple is moving down the road of an OS that's completely locked away from the user and forcing them to only run applications that Apple deems are 'good' to run. This is fine when we're talking about a cell phone that we might pay $200 for with a subsidy from AT&T (Generalizing on the price) but when someone's dropping close to $1k for a device, I would assume that they'd be able to have the ability to choose 'what' they want to run on it.
Additionally - do we as users of such devices want to start showing manufacturers in general that we're fine with them taking choice away when we install applications?
There are advantages to going down the road Apple is taking. I think a lot of people see that. I am happy they are not going down the same path as the PS3 and Xbox. There is low barrier to entry, so the indies are treated the same as the big publishers. It is particularly nice for indies because they don't have to worry about marketing, hosting, or payment processing. I think Apple's path is the reason there is so much software on the App Store. Everybody wins except software pirates, Richard Stallman, and the mature print industry.
As for folks losing interest - worry not, once these puppies start showing up in Starbucks... it needs a camera though.
It is amazing what the little fanboys here will believe in. They actually think the iPad is more than an iPod Touch. Not everything from Apple becomes popular.
What amazes me as an apple fan who prefered when everything was put together here in the US, is that just a week ago everyone was pleading for a non large iPod and in a way, that's what we got. How can this be Job's greatest prized possession, no way, at least "as-is" which angers me as the underground crew will make it super cool I bet, even better if it were OSX lite and we all know Apple will release a better version down the road, and we'll spend for it
this time, I'm waiting until rev 3 at least or at least see what's in the works with other companies have coming. Looks like cool stuff coming this way. I still think the MacBook pro is a great machine (express slot version for esata or 3rd party plug INS).
The iPad would have been a miracle machine had it had all the technology and performed all the tasks the hyper ventilating technoheads foretold. This is the hangover. I think it will sell phenomenally but its true potential will become apparent over time. Within a year or two this thing will be huge.
Exactly. Rev 3 will be what 1 should have been instead of milking us for all that money.
Speaking of a broken record....do you have a cushioned seat on that bandwagon?
I have no doubt the iPad will sell millions. There are a lot of people out there looking for a color screened eBook reader. Not me, I want a little more from the device than just browsing the web and reading books.
To me the iPad is like the first generation iPhone, it was a revolutionary piece of crap. When the 3GS came along I grabbed one knowing it was finally a great device. Same thing with the iPad...I'll buy the third version.
Did almost the same thing. I waited for 3G.
Exactly. Rev 3 will be what 1 should have been instead of milking us for all that money.
I don't believe that's what he meant. I believe he meant what I did, about accessories, apps and content. As I said, apps made the iPhone. When folks are judging it on having held and used it, or seen a friend with it, rather than a mere photo or YouTube video.
The third version won't be what the first should have been as although there exist examples to the contrary Apple tends to learn quick, I imagine version two will be what the first should have been. Look at the iPhone 3G. Even then, with such long battery life, I can see an immediate use in my life already when it comes to travel. Not that I shall rush to buy, no, as I'm waiting to see what content will be available to push me over the edge.
For me, textbooks are key. I've never liked them on a dedicated reader or on a laptop. Who carries two laptops, or a laptop and an extra LCD display, to write a paper in a library? Command-tabbing between Word and Adobe Reader? No thank you. So I stick with paper, but ebooks cost a lot less, could weigh a lot less and if available on the iPad, well shoot, that'd easily save me money in the long run. Probably would make note taking a heck of a lot easier too.
These graphs don't show the dismal picture the article paints.
My thoughts precisely.
Reworded 1st graph:
* I want one: 3% -> 9%
* Need more info: 36% -> 21%
* I am not interested: 61% -> 70%
Reworded 2nd graph:
* I definitely need one: 3% -> 5%
* I might need one, maybe: 18% -> 19%
* I don't really have any idea: 30% -> 15%
* I don't need one: 49% -> 61%
Personally, I want to get my hands on one. Many reviews say you really need to give it a go to make a judgement.
This is how good I am at the Internet!
Or you could focus on those who will get one. On the first question it went from 3% to 9%, a 200% increase. On the second question, 3% to 5%, a 66% increase. Let's parse the 'After' numbers some more. From the upper chart box 82% of surveyed said they heard of the iPad. From the lower chart box, 5% of that 82% said they definitely need one. So through the magic of multiplication we can infer that 4.1 percent of those surveyed said they definitely need an iPad. The estimated U.S. adult population as of March 2004 is 217 million. 4.1% of that is 8.9 million who say they definitely need an iPad. How are those numbers looking now? For a brand new product category with a product that practically no one has tried out yet, I'd say those numbers are pretty good.
Still, even with those numbers, the survey is really useless until someone puts it in context. What's the survey profile for other products? And what was actual sales performance compared to the survey numbers?
For a tech writer, the author is pretty innumerate. Either that or just intellectually dishonest for the sake of sensation. Don't know which is worse.
That's an excellent point. Devs will hardly scoff at an audience of ten milllion. And the snowball rolls...
It's easy to lose interest in something you can't buy.
Apple needs to stop this nonsense of debuting a product and then saying it will be available X months later.
People show as much interest in the iPad as the Apple TV, which Apple never advertises and word of mouth is not working. If Apple is going to keep public interest up, they are going to have to either debut it again or start advertising it.
Yeah, I don't really get the AppleTV thing either. I want to believe its some sort of placeholder for yet another revolutionary product that changes the way we use media.
How about Apple have done this before?
Apple sold a version of the iPod Touch which had a bluetooth chip inside without telling purchasers. They then later said they could activate the bluetooth by paying $10 for new firmware.
Do you imply that Apple did this to rip its customers off?
Also your remark is factual wrong. iPod touch owners could pay $10 to upgrade the whole OS, of which bluetooth is only a tiny fraction.
The upgrade added several bluetooth profiles that made sense for the iPod touch like peer to peer networking etc. The previous iPhone OS did have several bluetooth profiles but they were only 'phone related' and not useful for the iPod touch.
So Apple had to develop its buetooth software (drivers) and made this functionality available as soon as it was ready.
And as a rule Apple doesn't tell exactly what hardware is used to make a product. But Apples product specification is very clear. In this case Apple didn't advertise bluetooth as a feature for the second generation iPod touch, but after the OS update it did have that feature. This should be a pleasant surprise instead of the very negative 'they ripped me off' reaction.
And last but not least, Apple didn't even want to charge for the OS upgrade but had to because of a US trade regulation.
But I guess you probably knew this already...
J.