He was embelishing, to put it most kindly. Publishing is bigger in revenue than music and movies combined. At least it was when he said that. But he can't say that, because that wouldn't sabotage Amazon's efforts.
Regarding 2H2009, one data point is not much to go by, especially during a recession...
Well a lot of people have had their disposable income reduced in favor of underwater mortgages and inflation. Going to take some time to flush it out of the economy.
A iPad could be a justified expense if it brings a wealth of inexpensive content and kills a lot of idle time people now find they have on their hands not working.
Another marketing thought: Subscription e-newspapers and magazines
Should be even less expensive than a paper subscription...which is pretty cheap already, some at 50¢ a copy. Might not be uncommon for people to be subscribed to several newspapers daily, being able to skim through them quickly using the iPad.
I see so much iPad potential, it has a very very promising future, provided the content is inexpensive.
We're moving toward device convergence/multipurpose devices. That's the reality.
Anyway, Amazon needs to rethink the entire e-book reader paradigm from the ground up. Or else their main distributor will be eBay.
That isn't reality. We have had multipurpose devices for a long time but that doesn't mean single function devices are just all going to end up on Ebay. Which is one of the stupid statements you keep making.
Many do, but many don't, too. Don't deny it, all e-ink device sales are hurt because most people want something that does more than one thing well and most people don't like e-ink because it doesn't display text as good as a book. You'll say I'm wrong despite Amazon's reactionary tactics being proof enough of what is coming.
The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.
Competition is good. I thought the Kindle was a bit ugly by design, but I'm sure the functionality is good. I'm not saying the iPad is much better though. I can't get over that thick bezel.
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
People like shiny things? Prevalence doesn't automatically equal good. Windows is more prevalent than Macs.
Renting of books is coming to the iPad and future Kindles, this is why the buy price shift upwards to make room for another set of prices at Amazon (the iBookStore will have a substantial head start of course), is my current estimation of what's going on.
Renting of e-books is a untapped market, the DRM needed to allow renting can be better enforced on a device with a totally different processor type like the A4 is.
"People don't read anymore" - Steve Jobs.
Says it all right there, he's addressing the issue of why people don't read, the high costs of books.
It costs something like 10% to print, 10% to distribute and 40% to retail a book. Apple is going to do it for 30%. Who knows what they will get for the untapped rental market, but publishers are more likely to get into renting and adjust prices to maximize profit in both, selling and renting, as they will have control over prices.
Sure some buying sales are going to be lost because of renting, but they are most likely figuring the huge untapped rental market is going to offset that small loss.
After the iBookStore success on the iPad, Apple is going to court more of the strict DRM movie studio types for their content.
The reason I say this is even on Netflix, there are a lot of movies you can only get via copy protected DVD's. No streaming what so ever, but perhaps with a closed system like the iPad they will think otherwise.
Unfortunately for us who already own a compuer, if you want to view any of this DRMed content, from the iBookStore or iTunes, you'll have to buy a iPad. Which will spur sales of the device to normal computer/Mac using folks who ordinarily wouldn't buy the device because of it's lack of features.
The oracle of Apple has spoken.
You are wrong on SO many of your points.
The costs of publishing are not easily translated into percentages. Average sales price varies over time, editing, design, proofing, author advance, etc are all fixed costs. These often amount to well over 100% of the revenue from the sale of a book.
Jobs did not say that people don't read because books are expensive.
Renting isn't a good model for books. I sometimes read a book in one evening, sometimes it takes weeks. You can't effectively limit the rental period. Also, since book prices drop significantly over time (eBooks will now that iTunes has entered the game) why would anyone rent when they will be able to get the book for a few dollars in six months time?
I have no idea why you think that a different processor would be required for DRM. If my iPhone can manage it, I'm sure ay processor will do.
There is no reason (that I know of) to believe that you wont be able to read Apple ebooks on any machine authorized to your iTunes account.
The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.
1) Never said it would be a better eReader. I said that it would be popular. Convenience always wins.
2) You're talking about December 2009 as Holiday season? Um, the iPad was announced 2 weeks ago.
There is no reason for Kindle's demise. Reduce the cost, offer touch screen and saving documents in pdf as long has been suggested. You can also develop a higher priced Kindle offering some of the same technology as the iPad. The lower priced Kindle will suit readers who don't need all of the extras and read mostly novels and text only books. The advanced Kindle can offer interactive and highly illustrated type books.
Well a lot of people have had their disposable income reduced in favor of underwater mortgages and inflation. Going to take some time to flush it out of the economy.
A iPad could be a justified expense if it brings a wealth of inexpensive content and kills a lot of idle time people now find they have on their hands not working.
Another marketing thought: Subscription e-newspapers and magazines
Should be even less expensive than a paper subscription...which is pretty cheap already, some at 50¢ a copy. Might not be uncommon for people to be subscribed to several newspapers daily, being able to skim through them quickly using the iPad.
I see so much iPad potential, it has a very very promising future, provided the content is inexpensive.
I agree on most of this, though people in financial trouble shouldn't be trying to justify an iPad until their troubles pass. But that still leaves quite a lot of people that may be able to try something new.
If it's done well, I think iPad may be a boon to subscriptions. A lot of magazines are so inexpensive that the subscriber's payment roughly covers the cost of mailing, and then there isn't the publishing expense. Maybe there can be an option for free with ads, or pay a certain amount for the version with no ads.
Jobs must have stock in Visions Eyecare or something because of his stupid decision to sell glossy only screens. Moronic is an understatement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
My 17" MBP has a glossy screen and wouldn't have it any other way. Sharper image and better colors. Glare has not been a problem for me. Most of the laptops that I see in stores and office stationary suppliers have glossy screens. If you need matt, I'm sure that there will be a third party screen protectors--but glossy is better. So I agree with Quadra 610 and suggest that if the glare bothers you either don't buy, use a screen protector or 600 grit sandpaper might do the trick.
Amazon competing with Apple is a losing proposition. The direction to go for the Kindle is to add a few nice things for avid readers, and continue to drive the price of the thing down. If a Kindle was $100, who wouldn't want one?
In tripping over themselves to match the iPad, Amazon is going to let B&N's Nook overtake the eReader market. It's sleek, has a nice touch interface, and keeps getting faster/easier to use with each firmware update.
So I agree with Quadra 610 and suggest that if the glare bothers you either don't buy, use a screen protector or 600 grit sandpaper might do the trick.
Removing the superfluous piece of glass would do even better all around.
The Kindle and the iPad are not direct competitors. They are different products targeting different audiences.
Amazon is not rethinking the Kindle due to the iPad. Its primary competition is the Barnes & Noble nook and the Sony e-book readers, as well as new e-ink devices announced last month at CES.
1) Never said it would be a better eReader. I said that it would be popular. Convenience always wins.
2) You're talking about December 2009 as Holiday season? Um, the iPad was announced 2 weeks ago.
So if its not a better ereading in your opinion, which is the same as mine why are all these pinheads on this forum talking about the Kindle ending up on Ebay? Not that you were feeding into that but it was the point I was trying to make in this thread.
Renting isn't a good model for books. I sometimes read a book in one evening, sometimes it takes weeks. You can't effectively limit the rental period. Also, since book prices drop significantly over time (eBooks will now that iTunes has entered the game) why would anyone rent when they will be able to get the book for a few dollars in six months time?
Perhaps there could be a Netflix model for renting, which could solve the rental time issue. Maybe you pay full price up-front, but get credits back to the elibrary when you return a book. I think there are creative ways of distributing that have not yet been explored that could be successful.
Also, the point of being able to purchase or rent a book from anywhere is a reason to own an ereader, so what's so attractive about waiting six months for a book's price to drop and then going to the book store to purchase a bound copy?
Competition "raised" the cost because 9.99 is artificially set by Amazon. They are losing money on each ebook sale. Publishers will not feel the need to drop the price (until Amazon have a monopoly on the market and renegotiate).
In a situation where price's not artificially set, competition will most certainly bring the price down.
So yeah, instead of blaming Apple for entering the market, you should be thanking them for breaking Amazon's monopoly, and bringing real market economy to the eBook market.
Now subsitute Apple for Amazon, .99cents instead of 9.99, and iPods/Itunes for Kindles and what do you get?
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Removing the superfluous piece of glass would do even better all around.
But then it would not be a touch screen--would it?
Now subsitute Apple for Amazon, .99cents instead of 9.99, and iPods/Itunes for Kindles and what do you get?
Basically the same thing.
The only thing different is books are not songs. Songs are mostly about 4-6 minutes long, really hard to quantify how good or bad it is. Unlike books you have some with 50 pages, and book with 500+ pages. there are niche books (medical books) that sells for significantly more than regular book because the buyers don't have a better choice. Then there are text book which cost somewhere from 99 cents to $500+ depending on which subject you are looking for.
What happens with $9.99 is, many of these books will have to be cut into many volumes in order to get it closer to their expected price, or not release an ebook version at all.
Seriously. They weren't even trying. They put out a weakly designed, over-priced product, and didn't move fast enough to innovate. Now they're scrambling as a result.
If they want to save the Kindle (if that's even possible), they'll need to get AGGRESSIVE in pricing and marketing and hope they can get it in enough hands that they can build it up from there. Otherwise, they are lost.
And I'm talking $99/149 (regular)- $199/249 (dx) aggressive. They need to market it as an inexpensive, single-purpose device.
They knew this was coming, and they sat still about it.
The only thing Apple has managed to do with the iPad is raise the cost of EBooks. Right now the iPad is better known for what it can't do rather then what it can. Not exactly innovative.
That's not true in either sense.
MacMillian, for example does want higher prices on NEW books that are coming out in hardcover, but they have stated that they want book pricing to start at $4.99. Right now, Amazon doesn't have a viable scheme for book selling. As has been reported in the Times and WSJ, they pay half the list price for a hardcover, but charge $9.95. That can't last. In addition, most books Amazon "sells" are free. So they are losing big time in order to increase marketshare.
Their numbers are worthless because even though they say they "sold" 60% as many e-books as "real" books during the holidays, they refuse to say how many were paid. The estimates are that not more that 20% were.
So what will happen? Amazon would either bring the hammer down on publishers, and drop the price they pay to about $7, so that they could make a small profit, or even further, so that they could make a decent one. Authors will get hit here too.
Or, sooner or later, they would have to raise the prices.
Apple is being more realistic. Publishers have to make most of their money back with the hardcover. Then they come out with cheaper editions.
You may not know what the iPad can do, but it seems as though many others do.
Comments
He was embelishing, to put it most kindly. Publishing is bigger in revenue than music and movies combined. At least it was when he said that. But he can't say that, because that wouldn't sabotage Amazon's efforts.
Regarding 2H2009, one data point is not much to go by, especially during a recession...
Well a lot of people have had their disposable income reduced in favor of underwater mortgages and inflation. Going to take some time to flush it out of the economy.
A iPad could be a justified expense if it brings a wealth of inexpensive content and kills a lot of idle time people now find they have on their hands not working.
Another marketing thought: Subscription e-newspapers and magazines
Should be even less expensive than a paper subscription...which is pretty cheap already, some at 50¢ a copy. Might not be uncommon for people to be subscribed to several newspapers daily, being able to skim through them quickly using the iPad.
I see so much iPad potential, it has a very very promising future, provided the content is inexpensive.
Many? who's "many"?
We're moving toward device convergence/multipurpose devices. That's the reality.
Anyway, Amazon needs to rethink the entire e-book reader paradigm from the ground up. Or else their main distributor will be eBay.
That isn't reality. We have had multipurpose devices for a long time but that doesn't mean single function devices are just all going to end up on Ebay. Which is one of the stupid statements you keep making.
Many do, but many don't, too. Don't deny it, all e-ink device sales are hurt because most people want something that does more than one thing well and most people don't like e-ink because it doesn't display text as good as a book. You'll say I'm wrong despite Amazon's reactionary tactics being proof enough of what is coming.
The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
People like shiny things? Prevalence doesn't automatically equal good. Windows is more prevalent than Macs.
Renting of books is coming to the iPad and future Kindles, this is why the buy price shift upwards to make room for another set of prices at Amazon (the iBookStore will have a substantial head start of course), is my current estimation of what's going on.
Renting of e-books is a untapped market, the DRM needed to allow renting can be better enforced on a device with a totally different processor type like the A4 is.
"People don't read anymore" - Steve Jobs.
Says it all right there, he's addressing the issue of why people don't read, the high costs of books.
It costs something like 10% to print, 10% to distribute and 40% to retail a book. Apple is going to do it for 30%. Who knows what they will get for the untapped rental market, but publishers are more likely to get into renting and adjust prices to maximize profit in both, selling and renting, as they will have control over prices.
Sure some buying sales are going to be lost because of renting, but they are most likely figuring the huge untapped rental market is going to offset that small loss.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9779673
After the iBookStore success on the iPad, Apple is going to court more of the strict DRM movie studio types for their content.
The reason I say this is even on Netflix, there are a lot of movies you can only get via copy protected DVD's. No streaming what so ever, but perhaps with a closed system like the iPad they will think otherwise.
Unfortunately for us who already own a compuer, if you want to view any of this DRMed content, from the iBookStore or iTunes, you'll have to buy a iPad. Which will spur sales of the device to normal computer/Mac using folks who ordinarily wouldn't buy the device because of it's lack of features.
The oracle of Apple has spoken.
You are wrong on SO many of your points.
The costs of publishing are not easily translated into percentages. Average sales price varies over time, editing, design, proofing, author advance, etc are all fixed costs. These often amount to well over 100% of the revenue from the sale of a book.
Jobs did not say that people don't read because books are expensive.
Renting isn't a good model for books. I sometimes read a book in one evening, sometimes it takes weeks. You can't effectively limit the rental period. Also, since book prices drop significantly over time (eBooks will now that iTunes has entered the game) why would anyone rent when they will be able to get the book for a few dollars in six months time?
I have no idea why you think that a different processor would be required for DRM. If my iPhone can manage it, I'm sure ay processor will do.
There is no reason (that I know of) to believe that you wont be able to read Apple ebooks on any machine authorized to your iTunes account.
If I might suggest some reading for you:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...outsiders.html
And
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2010/01...le-via-amazon/
Which contains a great breakdown of the costing issues with eBooks.
The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.
1) Never said it would be a better eReader. I said that it would be popular. Convenience always wins.
2) You're talking about December 2009 as Holiday season? Um, the iPad was announced 2 weeks ago.
Well a lot of people have had their disposable income reduced in favor of underwater mortgages and inflation. Going to take some time to flush it out of the economy.
A iPad could be a justified expense if it brings a wealth of inexpensive content and kills a lot of idle time people now find they have on their hands not working.
Another marketing thought: Subscription e-newspapers and magazines
Should be even less expensive than a paper subscription...which is pretty cheap already, some at 50¢ a copy. Might not be uncommon for people to be subscribed to several newspapers daily, being able to skim through them quickly using the iPad.
I see so much iPad potential, it has a very very promising future, provided the content is inexpensive.
I agree on most of this, though people in financial trouble shouldn't be trying to justify an iPad until their troubles pass. But that still leaves quite a lot of people that may be able to try something new.
If it's done well, I think iPad may be a boon to subscriptions. A lot of magazines are so inexpensive that the subscriber's payment roughly covers the cost of mailing, and then there isn't the publishing expense. Maybe there can be an option for free with ads, or pay a certain amount for the version with no ads.
Jobs must have stock in Visions Eyecare or something because of his stupid decision to sell glossy only screens. Moronic is an understatement!
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
My 17" MBP has a glossy screen and wouldn't have it any other way. Sharper image and better colors. Glare has not been a problem for me. Most of the laptops that I see in stores and office stationary suppliers have glossy screens. If you need matt, I'm sure that there will be a third party screen protectors--but glossy is better. So I agree with Quadra 610 and suggest that if the glare bothers you either don't buy, use a screen protector or 600 grit sandpaper might do the trick.
In tripping over themselves to match the iPad, Amazon is going to let B&N's Nook overtake the eReader market. It's sleek, has a nice touch interface, and keeps getting faster/easier to use with each firmware update.
So I agree with Quadra 610 and suggest that if the glare bothers you either don't buy, use a screen protector or 600 grit sandpaper might do the trick.
Removing the superfluous piece of glass would do even better all around.
Amazon is not rethinking the Kindle due to the iPad. Its primary competition is the Barnes & Noble nook and the Sony e-book readers, as well as new e-ink devices announced last month at CES.
1) Never said it would be a better eReader. I said that it would be popular. Convenience always wins.
2) You're talking about December 2009 as Holiday season? Um, the iPad was announced 2 weeks ago.
So if its not a better ereading in your opinion, which is the same as mine why are all these pinheads on this forum talking about the Kindle ending up on Ebay? Not that you were feeding into that but it was the point I was trying to make in this thread.
Renting isn't a good model for books. I sometimes read a book in one evening, sometimes it takes weeks. You can't effectively limit the rental period. Also, since book prices drop significantly over time (eBooks will now that iTunes has entered the game) why would anyone rent when they will be able to get the book for a few dollars in six months time?
Perhaps there could be a Netflix model for renting, which could solve the rental time issue. Maybe you pay full price up-front, but get credits back to the elibrary when you return a book. I think there are creative ways of distributing that have not yet been explored that could be successful.
Also, the point of being able to purchase or rent a book from anywhere is a reason to own an ereader, so what's so attractive about waiting six months for a book's price to drop and then going to the book store to purchase a bound copy?
Competition "raised" the cost because 9.99 is artificially set by Amazon. They are losing money on each ebook sale. Publishers will not feel the need to drop the price (until Amazon have a monopoly on the market and renegotiate).
In a situation where price's not artificially set, competition will most certainly bring the price down.
So yeah, instead of blaming Apple for entering the market, you should be thanking them for breaking Amazon's monopoly, and bringing real market economy to the eBook market.
Now subsitute Apple for Amazon, .99cents instead of 9.99, and iPods/Itunes for Kindles and what do you get?
Nearly every netbook on the market has a glossy screen. Nearly every major smartphone on the market has a glossy screen. And people are buying. Glossy is a reality. Don't like it? Ask yourself why people keep buying.
Removing the superfluous piece of glass would do even better all around.
But then it would not be a touch screen--would it?
Now subsitute Apple for Amazon, .99cents instead of 9.99, and iPods/Itunes for Kindles and what do you get?
Basically the same thing.
The only thing different is books are not songs. Songs are mostly about 4-6 minutes long, really hard to quantify how good or bad it is. Unlike books you have some with 50 pages, and book with 500+ pages. there are niche books (medical books) that sells for significantly more than regular book because the buyers don't have a better choice. Then there are text book which cost somewhere from 99 cents to $500+ depending on which subject you are looking for.
What happens with $9.99 is, many of these books will have to be cut into many volumes in order to get it closer to their expected price, or not release an ebook version at all.
If they want to save the Kindle (if that's even possible), they'll need to get AGGRESSIVE in pricing and marketing and hope they can get it in enough hands that they can build it up from there. Otherwise, they are lost.
And I'm talking $99/149 (regular)- $199/249 (dx) aggressive. They need to market it as an inexpensive, single-purpose device.
They knew this was coming, and they sat still about it.
The only thing Apple has managed to do with the iPad is raise the cost of EBooks. Right now the iPad is better known for what it can't do rather then what it can. Not exactly innovative.
That's not true in either sense.
MacMillian, for example does want higher prices on NEW books that are coming out in hardcover, but they have stated that they want book pricing to start at $4.99. Right now, Amazon doesn't have a viable scheme for book selling. As has been reported in the Times and WSJ, they pay half the list price for a hardcover, but charge $9.95. That can't last. In addition, most books Amazon "sells" are free. So they are losing big time in order to increase marketshare.
Their numbers are worthless because even though they say they "sold" 60% as many e-books as "real" books during the holidays, they refuse to say how many were paid. The estimates are that not more that 20% were.
So what will happen? Amazon would either bring the hammer down on publishers, and drop the price they pay to about $7, so that they could make a small profit, or even further, so that they could make a decent one. Authors will get hit here too.
Or, sooner or later, they would have to raise the prices.
Apple is being more realistic. Publishers have to make most of their money back with the hardcover. Then they come out with cheaper editions.
You may not know what the iPad can do, but it seems as though many others do.