Amazon rethinking Kindle in the wake of Apple iPad

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  • Reply 61 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    There is no reason for Kindle's demise. Reduce the cost, offer touch screen and saving documents in pdf as long has been suggested. You can also develop a higher priced Kindle offering some of the same technology as the iPad. The lower priced Kindle will suit readers who don't need all of the extras and read mostly novels and text only books. The advanced Kindle can offer interactive and highly illustrated type books.



    Yeah. Simple, isn't it?
  • Reply 62 of 163
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Most people seem to prefer glossy screens. When manufacturers began offering them a few years ago, they were surprised at the popularity. People have been reading from those screens ever since. With a large display, it may be difficult to move it, but not a small portable one such as this, with no keyboard attached to the bottom.



    Yes, most people do prefer glossy screens, however it's a shame a large portion of the population has such trouble with them as they did with the glossy CRT screens thus the "hoods" and anti-glare filters of old.



    The iPad might be able to escape some the reflections because it's held in the hand and thus can be turned this way and that. But the higher the ambient light, the harder it will be to do that.







    Quote:

    In that case, the Kindle must be harder to read from, as the screen requires reflected light. LCD's don't.



    If you say, I'm not familiar with the device or it's screen, perhaps it uses reflected light but not the reflected images, two different things I think.







    Quote:

    It wasn't just focus. It was great light sensitivity. I could hardly go outdoors even with the special sunglasses the doctor provided and a hat. I just barely made it to the hospital for the visits.



    Well I'm glad your better I hope, I'm just starting to have trouble with my eyes, reading glasses keep needing to be increased, it's so terrible and a pain having glasses in the car, on the counters etc. My father has coke bottle glasses now, he's been using glossy CRT's for years.







    Quote:

    I really don't see that as a problem. We have two 24" iMacs here, both glossy, neither has the slightest problems with reflections. And, as I said, glossy screen notebooks are the most popular, even when matt is an option.



    With the desktop models you can usually adjust the ambient light to reduce the reflections, it's harder with a portable model.



    And people are attracted to the glossy, Apple sells a lot because the anti-glare option is usually a build to order option.





    Quote:

    Schools are happily using iMacs and Macbooks, all with glossy screens for several years now without a problem. Most of the Dells sold there also have glossy screens. I've never heard anyone complain about it in all the technical computer work I've done in the NYC school system.



    Not all schools, and yes, it's a industry wide problem. Such a shame.



    http://www.hrd.qut.edu.au/healthsafe.../highGloss.jsp







    Quote:

    People make too much of that. Again, most people prefer glossy screens, glare or not.



    True, but a lot of computer users tend to be young, with good eyes and ignorant minds.



    Look at the iPod volume control issue right? Later on people will find out, also there are a lot of wealthy post baby boomer retiring, who need something to do rather than being carted to the local indian casinos.



    A computer could help a lot of them remain active, but their eyes need the extra softness and less strain.





    And to note, I do like the glossy displays, the image is cleaner and clearer, however if Apple could get rid of the glare and reflections (using special glass that's <1% surface reflective) perhaps it could make a glossy screen even better.



  • Reply 63 of 163
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by modthatmac View Post


    The iPad dispute (why you think you dont like it)

    http://modthatmac.wordpress.com/2010...-dont-like-it/





    Nice to see you're reading my posts .... and even better, getting enough out of it to write a blog.... how original. You'll notice the date of my writings.... you're welcome!



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...62#post1563062
  • Reply 64 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Some members on this forum keep saying that but it couldn't be further from the truth. Many consumers want a device that has a single purpose and performs that purpose well. The Kindle is a far better ereader simply based on is screen technology compared to the iPad. For ereading using a EPD display is far better then an LCD/LED.



    There wouldnt be any reason for consumers to sell their Kindle even if they were going to by an iPad.



    You may bee 100% correct, but obviously Amazon doesn't agree, because they 'blinked.' Sounds like they are either completely or at the very least partially planning to abandon their current Kindle tech and upgrade to compete with the iPad. Now Google is talking of putting out a tablet to compete with Apple. Fascinating how Apple forces others to follow their lead and bend to their technology in part out of fear of losing market share or not looking 'cool', not vice versa.
  • Reply 65 of 163
    orlandoorlando Posts: 601member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As far as e-ink vs LCD goes; I think that's propaganda from E-ink and the companies who use their product. There has been no real, controlled study done anywhere that been released as yet that is aimed at finding that out. Hopefully, there will be one.



    I actually own an ebook reader with an e-ink display and I can categorically state that e-ink is better than LCD for reading.
  • Reply 66 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Yes, most people do prefer glossy screens, however it's a shame a large portion of the population has such trouble with them as they did with the glossy CRT screens thus the "hoods" and anti-glare filters of old.



    It's an assumption on your part that so many people have problems with them. Ignorance is always a problem, but I can't help it if some people are not trying to position their screens properly. It's not that difficult.



    Quote:

    The iPad might be able to escape some the reflections because it's held in the hand and thus can be turned this way and that. But the higher the ambient light, the harder it will be to do that.



    I don't think it's much of a problem. The minority who doesn't want them always seems to think it is, but it isn't. Really.



    Quote:

    If you say, I'm not familiar with the device or it's screen, perhaps it uses reflected light but not the reflected images, two different things I think.



    E-ink is a technology that uses tiny balls that are half white, and half black. They are suspended in a liquid. When charged one way, the white faces up. Charged another way, and the black faces up. there is no light emitted by the screen, and no backlight. It entirely depends upon reflected light. The brighter the better. The angle of the light matters as well. In very bright outdoor light, it almost appears to be black and white. In dimmer light, it appears to be very light grey against very dark grey. In even dimmer light indoors, it appears to be light grey against dark grey. In dim light, it appears to be a light medium grey against a medium dark grey. And of course, with no light, it doesn't appear at all.



    Quote:

    Well I'm glad your better I hope, I'm just starting to have trouble with my eyes, reading glasses keep needing to be increased, it's so terrible and a pain having glasses in the car, on the counters etc. My father has coke bottle glasses now, he's been using glossy CRT's for years.



    Thanks. As our eyes get worse, e-ink becomes less tenable as it's too limited in its variation. Besides, realistically, how many people would prefer a grey scale screen as opposed to full color?



    Your father's eyes aren't bad because he used glossy monitors.



    Quote:

    With the desktop models you can usually adjust the ambient light to reduce the reflections, it's harder with a portable model.



    You said the opposite above.





    Quote:

    And people are attracted to the glossy, Apple sells a lot because the anti-glare option is usually a build to order option.



    PC companies were selling glossy monitors years before Apple adopted the idea. Apple only began to sell them long after they became so popular.



    Quote:

    Not all schools, and yes, it's a industry wide problem. Such a shame.



    http://www.hrd.qut.edu.au/healthsafe.../highGloss.jsp



    Much ado about nothing. It's rarely more than a slight turn of the screen to fix.



    Quote:

    True, but a lot of computer users tend to be young, with good eyes and ignorant minds.



    Putting down the people who don't agree with you is NOT a winning strategy. I just turned 60, and this has been my profession for many years. Do I fit into that niche you're trying to make up?



    Quote:

    Look at the iPod volume control issue right? Later on people will find out, also there are a lot of wealthy post baby boomer retiring, who need something to do rather than being carted to the local indian casinos.



    I dont understand the twist to that paragraph.



    Quote:

    A computer could help a lot of them remain active, but their eyes need the extra softness and less strain.



    It's just a minor matter of positioning.



    Quote:

    And to note, I do like the glossy displays, the image is cleaner and clearer, however if Apple could get rid of the glare and reflections (using special glass that's <1% surface reflective) perhaps it could make a glossy screen even better.







    There's no such thing as glossy glass that's 1% reflective that's affordable. The only glass like that that I know would cost half the price of the computer. Apple's glossy screens do have a surface anti reflection coat. but they only do so much.
  • Reply 67 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    I actually own an ebook reader with an e-ink display and I can categorically state that e-ink is better than LCD for reading.



    No, you can't. All you can say is that you think it is from your own experience, comparing it to a computer screen, or possibly some phone, whose properties you're not stating. Mine is different. And most people who are saying it have never read a book on a portable LCD screened device made for the purpose. Have you, and if so, which one?
  • Reply 68 of 163
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sip View Post


    To match the features and functions of the iPad, Amazon is going to have to go with what already exists, Windows7, Windows7Mobile or Android because there is no way Amazon is going to commit many millions to R&D, its own processors and OS no matter how big the ebook market is or will likely become.



    With $3.4 B in the bank they can afford to make an Android Tablet or simply rebadge one. like the Asus one.



    More than likely it'll be another epic fail though. They had a 2 year window and completely failed to lock in the ebook market through heavy handed bullying of publishers and high kindle costs. It would have been far better for them to subsidize the Kindles to $99 and left ebook prices at $14.99 for new releases.
  • Reply 69 of 163
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,427member
    amazon is in a pickle

    they don't have an OS to compete, words no problem, rich media, big problem

    so lets say they get some company to make a "pad" for them how are they going to

    include all the guts, get chrome????

    they won't control the os and can't control the user experience





    i think there will be a textbook subscription service "rent text books" take out the middle man and more profits to author and epublisher

    i hate carrying stinking books, now they can be with video, pictures and for a new edition won't be 2 years old and bibliographies come alive and instantly available WOW
  • Reply 70 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post


    You may bee 100% correct, but obviously Amazon doesn't agree, because they 'blinked.' Sounds like they are either completely or at the very least partially planning to abandon their current Kindle tech and upgrade to compete with the iPad. Now Google is talking of putting out a tablet to compete with Apple. Fascinating how Apple forces others to follow their lead and bend to their technology in part out of fear of losing market share or not looking 'cool', not vice versa.



    I agree; I think you did a good job summarizing the main implication of the article. Apple is confident and its competitors are insecure; Apple leads and they follow.



    Do any of you think Amazon stands a realistic chance of putting out a half-way decent, competing product? Multi-touch, multi-function, presumably some kind of general purpose OS under the hood? I for one think they're in way over their head and their copycat product will very likely never see the light of day.
  • Reply 71 of 163
    ihxoihxo Posts: 567member
    I think what Amazon needs to do is drop Kindle's price raise eBooks price to subsidize the Kindle, write a really great iPad/Android/Windows Mobile ebook app.



    The only way I can understand why they are using the Kindle price to subsidize eBook is because people who bought kindle doesn't buy all that many books at all.
  • Reply 72 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ihxo View Post


    I think what Amazon needs to do is drop Kindle's price raise eBooks price to subsidize the Kindle, write a really great iPad/Android/Windows Mobile ebook app.



    The only way I can understand why they are using the Kindle price to subsidize eBook is because people who bought kindle doesn't buy all that many books at all.



    That's true. At least 80% of the books Amazon "sells" are free. Most of the rest, they're losing money on.



    Great way to build a business!
  • Reply 73 of 163
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's true. At least 80% of the books Amazon "sells" are free. Most of the rest, they're losing money on.



    Great way to build a business!



    It is unless you screw it up. Then it's just pissing money away. Amazon screwed it up. Ooops.



    It's one thing to make a throw of the dice, but it's quite another to poison the well while throwing the dice. A little metaphor mixing there but from what I see the publishers are none too pleased with Amazon.
  • Reply 74 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I agree on most of this, though people in financial trouble shouldn't be trying to justify an iPad until their troubles pass. But that still leaves quite a lot of people that may be able to try something new.



    If it's done well, I think iPad may be a boon to subscriptions. A lot of magazines are so inexpensive that the subscriber's payment roughly covers the cost of mailing, and then there isn't the publishing expense. Maybe there can be an option for free with ads, or pay a certain amount for the version with no ads.



    I agree that the iPad if done right can give a boost to subscriptions. The cost for delivering content electronically is minuscule compared to print.



    I believe that there is a nice opportunity to make money with targeted ads in some subcription content such as magazines. That's why Apple has decided to enter the mobile ad business with their purchase of Quattro.
  • Reply 75 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


    I actually own an ebook reader with an e-ink display and I can categorically state that e-ink is better than LCD for reading.



    My backlit H-IPS is a joy to read after it's correctly calibrated.



    Nothing beats Print.
  • Reply 76 of 163
    The Kindle is a device in conflict; and the root of that conflict is the screen. It is both the best feature and the worst feature of the Kindle.



    The E-ink display has ultra-low power consumption and causes no eye strain, making it perfect for reading books, but its lack of color and low refresh rate make it useless for other functions. Uninformed consumers also refuse to buy the Kindle based on its grayscale display, without knowing the benefits of E-ink.



    If Amazon wants to expand the Kindle's functionality to compete with the iPad (or not even to compete, just to reach other markets), they'll have to switch to a normal LCD (or OLED). But that breaks the device as a dedicated book reader.
  • Reply 77 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Some members on this forum keep saying that but it couldn't be further from the truth. Many consumers want a device that has a single purpose and performs that purpose well. The Kindle is a far better ereader simply based on is screen technology compared to the iPad. For ereading using a EPD display is far better then an LCD/LED.



    There wouldnt be any reason for consumers to sell their Kindle even if they were going to by an iPad.



    I see he is at it again providing his opinions without any fact. Reason I say fact is because Amazon have never published actual sales figures for Kindle and you know the product did quite well in holiday season.



    The comment about many consumers want a device that has a single purpose and performs that purpose well, show me the consumer survey data or stop providing BS to this discussion.
  • Reply 78 of 163
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ihxo View Post


    You won't be benefiting from eInk much if you use it for GPS.



    Ya... main thing for me is screen visibility. A highly reflective color screen (eInk or otherwise) would great for outdoors.
  • Reply 79 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


    I see he is at it again providing his opinions without any fact. Reason I say fact is because Amazon have never published actual sales figures for Kindle and you know the product did quite well in holiday season.



    The comment about many consumers want a device that has a single purpose and performs that purpose well, show me the consumer survey data or stop providing BS to this discussion.



    Well if you are so into facts show some that I am wrong. By the way one fact is at least their execs didn't have to talk about lowering the price of their product even before it was released.
  • Reply 80 of 163
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post


    You may bee 100% correct, but obviously Amazon doesn't agree, because they 'blinked.' Sounds like they are either completely or at the very least partially planning to abandon their current Kindle tech and upgrade to compete with the iPad. Now Google is talking of putting out a tablet to compete with Apple. Fascinating how Apple forces others to follow their lead and bend to their technology in part out of fear of losing market share or not looking 'cool', not vice versa.



    That isn't called blinking or being scared its called smart business. So many on this forum say everyone follows Apple, or Apple leads and everyone follows which is total BS. Apple in decades has only created one product that leads the market and thats the iPod. Even with the iPhone being popular it still doesn't lead and it certainly hasn't put anyone out of business.
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