Amazon rethinking Kindle in the wake of Apple iPad

1356789

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Amazon can't afford to lose the ebook wars to Apple. Ebooks are a far bigger part of Amazon's business. All that's about to change, however.



    Apple will do to ebooks what they did to music, and Steve's strategy is far smarter this time around.



    If Amazon is thinking of competing with Apple on this it will be a big mistake. Unless they have some insider knowledge that the iPad won't allow the Kindle application. Otherwise, what will they gain by selling hardware? That's a dangerous proposition. I'm not saying that they wont succeed. Possibly they could. After all, it was said that Apple couldn't succeed at phones.



    But this seems riskier. If they can sell books on the iPad, then this seems to be a waste. If they're looking at Sony and B&N as their competitors, that's a different ballgame, and they may succeed against them.
  • Reply 42 of 163
    nceencee Posts: 857member
    And the ones who will benefit most at this point in time are the publishers.



    If they cut their cost to print books, and put that money in their pockets, good for them BAD for writers. This will be just like the music industry before long.



    And if they don't have to print as many books ? more folks out of work - Bad



    If they don't have to print as many books ? good for us and our forest - Good



    The iPad and other products will also create a new medical practice - it will be an extension of carpel tunnel, maybe "fingertip flatten eyeist".



    If you can't feel anything in your fingers, will it still feel good to a women?



    Oh, well. If nothing else, Apple is great for rumors and speculation.



    Skip
  • Reply 43 of 163
    ltmpltmp Posts: 204member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strange_daze View Post


    Perhaps there could be a Netflix model for renting, which could solve the rental time issue. Maybe you pay full price up-front, but get credits back to the elibrary when you return a book. I think there are creative ways of distributing that have not yet been explored that could be successful.



    Also, the point of being able to purchase or rent a book from anywhere is a reason to own an ereader, so what's so attractive about waiting six months for a book's price to drop and then going to the book store to purchase a bound copy?



    Interesting idea. You're right, that plan (credits upon returning) might work.



    I was reffering to ebooks.

    The publishers want the pricing model for ebooks to be the same as for print. All of those that have talked about it say that the $15.99 price will only be for new releases. They want to be able to drop the price down over time to $4.99 or lower.
  • Reply 44 of 163
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,885member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Amazon is getting into the hardware business? And develop software to accompany it? They are asking for a world of hurt. They will blow through serious cash in R&D costs and any type of return on investment will be years away. My bet would be they will try for a couple years (at the most) and hundreds of millions of dollars later will realize they should have stuck with what they know best - selling stuff.



    Completely agree with you. Bezos seems to be afflicted with a little hubris. Hope he snaps out of it soon. There is no way in hell Amazon will be able to compete with Apple. Especially if they're branching out into LCD screens as reported elsewhere. Even if they somehow miraculously acquire the technical knowhow, they'll be hard-pressed to secure component prices that Apple, with its enormous volumes, are able to negotiate. Shoot, forget about prices, there might not even be enough supply for them After Apple nails down its long term supply deals.
  • Reply 45 of 163
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    But then it would not be a touch screen--would it?



    You're right, I was thinking about the Macs. Which is true, it's an extra piece of glass that is between the user and the real screen. Something that people forget is that it is possible to have more aggressive glare reduction and still have a smooth, clear screen. Clearer than a glossy screen, in fact.
  • Reply 46 of 163
    Does amazon really have to worry that much? In the music world it's them taking Market share from apple, why shouldn't they be able to retain their Market share in books. Also I'm not into ebooks but everything I hear refers to everyone making ebook readers and apple calls there books iBooks. Does that mean they will only ever work on an ipad? If so then that's a huge reason to go with amazon.



    Also if amazon really want to compete on hardware I think they could. After all apple buy a lot of the parts that make up the iPhone. All the really cool things like multi touch arnt owned bt them. What's really there to stop anyone doing it as well? The fact that others haven't I think is more down to the idea that to beat is a costly war, but to get every other buyer by spending a lot less will make a lot with lower risk.
  • Reply 47 of 163
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LTMP View Post


    Renting isn't a good model for books. I sometimes read a book in one evening, sometimes it takes weeks. You can't effectively limit the rental period.





    Yes you can, by basing the rental period upon the time it takes to read the book not on a flat time.



    You have to turn a page to bring it into view right? As long as one doesn't turn the pages the unread content can exist on the device for as long as necessary.



    Anything is possible really.





    Quote:

    Also, since book prices drop significantly over time (eBooks will now that iTunes has entered the game) why would anyone rent when they will be able to get the book for a few dollars in six months time?



    Well the prices for buying e-books just went up on Amazon, the publishers wouldn't have to drop their prices if people had the choice to rent first, then decide to buy at a discount later if they wanted to keep the content.



    The e-books and the internet lends itself to a more structured price system that being forced to "move" paper books because it's taking up room etc., like traditional book stores.



    Quote:

    I have no idea why you think that a different processor would be required for DRM. If my iPhone can manage it, I'm sure any processor will do.



    A custom processor could make breaking the DRM rented content files a bit harder than usual, especially with a mandatory internet connection verifying the condition of the processor/iPad etc.





    Quote:

    There is no reason (that I know of) to believe that you wont be able to read Apple ebooks on any machine authorized to your iTunes account.





    Some textbooks are incredibly expensive, college students would be quick to copy the content if allowed on the traditional computer platforms. But on a iPad, with Apple controlling both the Apps, the hardware and the processor, could make a effective stratagem to keep paid or rented content on the iPad.
  • Reply 48 of 163
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    So if its not a better ereading in your opinion, which is the same as mine why are all these pinheads on this forum talking about the Kindle ending up on Ebay? Not that you were feeding into that but it was the point I was trying to make in this thread.



    You're doing it again . . .
  • Reply 49 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well. The only thing I would say is wrong is for someone to think the iPad is going to make a better ereader then the Kindle. Sorry but an LCD/LED screen is about the worst option for ereading. Good luck for anyone sitting outside trying to read with that.



    The problem is that no one knows how well the Kindle did, as Amazon refuses to ever mention how many were sold. They say it was the best selling something or other, and that's a problem too, because they also refuse to define the category it's competing in.



    We're seeing numbers of between 2 and 3 million sold since the first one came out in 2007, but thats just a guess as well. It's also not very much, and that's almost all for the standard one, not the DX.



    As far as e-ink vs LCD goes; I think that's propaganda from E-ink and the companies who use their product. There has been no real, controlled study done anywhere that been released as yet that is aimed at finding that out. Hopefully, there will be one.



    But a lot of nonsense is abounding. First of all, we use our computers for hours at a time, and I'm willing to bet that very few have headaches or eyestrain at the end of the day from that. It's been shown that problems are mostly caused by poor posture, bad overhead lighting, screens being too high, etc. I've been reading books on my phones for years without a problem, and I'm not the only one by far.



    The eye and brain don't know where a photon of light comes from. It can't tell if the photon is reflected or transmitted. It makes no sense to even think that it does. This is one of those myths that gets repeated as one person hears it from another who heard it from another.



    If the screen is too bright, you can turn it down. Book readers on the iPhone allow that, as well as inverting the screen, adjusting the type and background separately, etc. After my several eye operations, when I was away from here for almost two months, the only thing I could read from was my iPhone. I couldn't read newspapers, magazines, watch Tv, use the computer, or even go outside. By adjusting the font size, background darkness, and type darkness, I was able to read. I doubt I could have even seen the type on a Kindle though.



    I believe it's a big mistake to assume that reading on this will be difficult. Those who have Kindles are assuming that will be the case, but I don't believe it.
  • Reply 50 of 163
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    Does amazon really have to worry that much? In the music world it's them taking Market share from apple, why shouldn't they be able to retain their Market share in books. Also I'm not into ebooks but everything I hear refers to everyone making ebook readers and apple calls there books iBooks. Does that mean they will only ever work on an ipad? If so then that's a huge reason to go with amazon.



    Also if amazon really want to compete on hardware I think they could. After all apple buy a lot of the parts that make up the iPhone. All the really cool things like multi touch arnt owned bt them. What's really there to stop anyone doing it as well? The fact that others haven't I think is more down to the idea that to beat is a costly war, but to get every other buyer by spending a lot less will make a lot with lower risk.



    It's only natural that the second player to the market takes market share from the first. If one company has a virtual monopoly on a market and another company joins the market, they take market share from the first company the moment they sell a single product. The fact that Amazon has taken a little market share from Apple in the music market should be in no means comforting to them with respect to the ebook market as the roles are reversed and Apple has a stronger product offering in the iPad and its bookstore than Amazon did when it entered the music market.
  • Reply 51 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ncee View Post


    And the ones who will benefit most at this point in time are the publishers.



    If they cut their cost to print books, and put that money in their pockets, good for them BAD for writers. This will be just like the music industry before long.



    And if they don't have to print as many books ? more folks out of work - Bad



    If they don't have to print as many books ? good for us and our forest - Good



    The iPad and other products will also create a new medical practice - it will be an extension of carpel tunnel, maybe "fingertip flatten eyeist".



    If you can't feel anything in your fingers, will it still feel good to a women?



    Oh, well. If nothing else, Apple is great for rumors and speculation.



    Skip



    Authors get about 25% of the price of a book. If Amazon ends up cutting the price down to make a profit, everyone will get reduced.



    Apple's pricing model is better for everyone long term.
  • Reply 52 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LTMP View Post


    Interesting idea. You're right, that plan (credits upon returning) might work.



    I was reffering to ebooks.

    The publishers want the pricing model for ebooks to be the same as for print. All of those that have talked about it say that the $15.99 price will only be for new releases. They want to be able to drop the price down over time to $4.99 or lower.



    It's actually $12.99 to $14.99 in the beginning.
  • Reply 53 of 163
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    The Kindle hasn't been hurt at all in fact durning the Holiday season it did very well.



    How can you make that statement when Amazon hasn't released any sales figures?
  • Reply 54 of 163
    I have a Kindle that my family bought for me for Christmas. I read maybe 4 or 5 books a year and a period of a month or 2 may pass between one book and the next. Right now, my Kindle has been sitting on the night stand, unused for the last month and a half. I'm sure a lot of people read all the time, but for the person who doesn't, it's kind of a waste.



    I'm sure that when I buy an iPad, it will probably be used everyday. I mean, I like to browse a lot in the evening, as well as use it for my work during the day. I can download my local newspaper right now in pdf format and read it on a computer. I don't do this very much now, because the computer is in my office and not at the kitchen table, where I like to read the paper in the morning. So, this is one use I plan on taking advantage of. The pdf format is exactly like the newspaper I get every morning, ads and all, and I could have it sent to my iPad every morning for less cost. Ditto for several magazines that I subscribe to.(if they become available digitally)



    It doesn't make any difference to me if it's E ink or not, except I do think color makes things more interesting and pleasing to read.



    For practically the same price, you can get an iPad. It will do so much more than a Kindle, I really don't think there's a comparison. You can only compare one aspect between the two. Also, maybe it's just me, but navigating in the Kindle is kind of a minor pain.
  • Reply 55 of 163
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    ...But a lot of nonsense is abounding. First of all, we use our computers for hours at a time, and I'm willing to bet that very few have headaches or eyestrain at the end of the day from that. It's been shown that problems are mostly caused by poor posture, bad overhead lighting, screens being too high, etc. I've been reading books on my phones for years without a problem, and I'm not the only one by far.



    Yes, many other issues can cause distress when using a computer screen for long periods of time.



    However one that didn't exist with LCD matte screens was glare and reflections.





    Quote:

    The eye and brain don't know where a photon of light comes from. It can't tell if the photon is reflected or transmitted. It makes no sense to even think that it does. This is one of those myths that gets repeated as one person hears it from another who heard it from another.



    Your right, what also happens is the reflection image is ever so slightly out of focus than the computer image that the eyes keep refocusing between the two, this causes the eye muscle strain which then leads to headaches and premature eye muscle fatigue, requiring glasses to compensate.



    Quote:

    If the screen is too bright, you can turn it down. Book readers on the iPhone allow that, as well as inverting the screen, adjusting the type and background separately, etc. After my several eye operations, when I was away from here for almost two months, the only thing I could read from was my iPhone. I couldn't read newspapers, magazines, watch Tv, use the computer, or even go outside. By adjusting the font size, background darkness, and type darkness, I was able to read. I doubt I could have even seen the type on a Kindle though.



    You were able to adjust the size of the type on the iPhone, thus making it easier to focus.



    Also the iPhone has a small surface area, it reflects little because of that reason. Once the screen size and the computer image your viewing starts increasing, the glare and reflections get harder and harder to control.



    Quote:

    I believe it's a big mistake to assume that reading on this will be difficult. Those who have Kindles are assuming that will be the case, but I don't believe it.





    Reading on the glossy screen iPad will be difficult for those vulnerable to glare and reflections, this will be revealed later on as people try to take the iPad to various locations, like the MacBook Pro's, which Apple did bring back anti-glare options.



    Schools might also come across the problems with glossy screens in the classrooms, which are often brightly lit.



    If so, Apple will just have to make some changes or anti-glare screens applied, the iPad will continue for those who don't have a issue.
  • Reply 56 of 163
    sipsip Posts: 210member
    I wonder what these guy are going to do:



    http://www.iliadreader.co.uk/product...FV1d4wodzxggIA



    Their 10" model retails at £600 ($955 at today's exchange rate). That's way more than KindleDX, but at least they allowed open standards.



    To match the features and functions of the iPad, Amazon is going to have to go with what already exists, Windows7, Windows7Mobile or Android because there is no way Amazon is going to commit many millions to R&D, its own processors and OS no matter how big the ebook market is or will likely become.
  • Reply 57 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Yes, many other issues can cause distress when using a computer screen for long periods of time.



    However one that didn't exist with LCD matte screens was glare and reflections.



    Most people seem to prefer glossy screens. When manufacturers began offering them a few years ago, they were surprised at the popularity. People have been reading from those screens ever since. With a large display, it may be difficult to move it, but not a small portable one such as this, with no keyboard attached to the bottom.



    Quote:

    Your right, what also happens is the reflection image is ever so slightly out of focus than the computer image that the eyes keep refocusing between the two, this causes the eye muscle strain which then leads to headaches and premature eye muscle fatigue, requiring glasses to compensate.



    In that case, the Kindle must be harder to read from, as the screen requires reflected light. LCD's don't.



    Quote:

    You were able to adjust the size of the type on the iPhone, thus making it easier to focus.



    It wasn't just focus. It was great light sensitivity. I could hardly go outdoors even with the special sunglasses the doctor provided and a hat. I just barely made it to the hospital for the visits.



    Quote:

    Also the iPhone has a small surface area, it reflects little because of that reason. Once the screen size and the computer image your viewing starts increasing, the glare and reflections get harder and harder to control.



    This isn't nearly as large as my monitor. A fraction of the size. If I could have adjusted the parameters, it would have worked out well.



    Quote:

    Reading on the glossy screen iPad will be difficult for those vulnerable to glare and reflections, this will be revealed later on as people try to take the iPad to various locations, like the MacBook Pro's, which Apple did bring back anti-glare options.



    I really don't see that as a problem. We have two 24" iMacs here, both glossy, neither has the slightest problems with reflections. And, as I said, glossy screen notebooks are the most popular, even when matt is an option.



    Quote:

    Schools might also come across the problems with glossy screens in the classrooms, which are often brightly lit.



    Schools are happily using iMacs and Macbooks, all with glossy screens for several years now without a problem. Most of the Dells sold there also have glossy screens. I've never heard anyone complain about it in all the technical computer work I've done in the NYC school system.



    Quote:

    If so, Apple will just have to make some changes or anti-glare screens applied, the iPad will continue for those who don't have a issue.



    People make too much of that. Again, most people prefer glossy screens, glare or not.
  • Reply 58 of 163
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Least we forget, Google books. Google may also be planing an eBook device--just speculations, but they are entering the smart phone arena.
  • Reply 59 of 163
    The iPad dispute (why you think you dont like it)

    http://modthatmac.wordpress.com/2010...-dont-like-it/
  • Reply 60 of 163
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sip View Post


    I wonder what these guy are going to do:



    http://www.iliadreader.co.uk/product...FV1d4wodzxggIA



    Their 10" model retails at £600 ($955 at today's exchange rate). That's way more than KindleDX, but at least they allowed open standards.



    To match the features and functions of the iPad, Amazon is going to have to go with what already exists, Windows7, Windows7Mobile or Android because there is no way Amazon is going to commit many millions to R&D, its own processors and OS no matter how big the ebook market is or will likely become.



    We can likely rule out Win 7. There's no way Amazon will be making a tablet based on that. No one will buy it. It's proven to be immensely unpopular. Way too complex. And then Amazon will have to support Windows. Uh uh.



    It will have to be a more advanced version of the Linux it's using now, or one of the proliferating versions of Android. 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, or 2.1. Take your pick. Dell is coming out with a 5" tablet in a few months that will be using the old, non upgradable 1.5, so maybe that's what Amazon will also use.
Sign In or Register to comment.