Agreed that Apple's share of the mobile market is huge. But that is not really the question, the question is what percentage of the ENTIRE web market is the mobile market.
The original question was "if Apple's marketshare is so small, then why does Adobe care about Apple?" (paraphrased) The answer I gave is relevant.
You need to chill and read entire discussion thread before bursting a blood vessel on his comments!
When someone calls someone a liar directly to a preceding post why must one read the whole thread? No blood vessel bursting but between his calling people liars and trolls- like enough already.
Ok, but why? Is it really as simple that Flash does not work as well on Macs as it does Windows machines, and that some Mac users feel slighted/ignored?
Someone remarked that the only time you see people saying they hate a software company is on the Apple Boards. I don't know if that is true, but it is reminiscent of how some people talk about Sony on the Home Theater boards.
The original question was "if Apple's marketshare is so small, then why does Adobe care about Apple?" (paraphrased) The answer I gave is relevant.
Not really. If the mobile market makes up a small percentage of the overall internet market (and I have no idea what the percentage is), then owning a big or small share of the mobile market is still irrelevant.
When someone calls someone a liar directly to a preceding post why must one read the whole thread? No blood vessel bursting but between his calling people liars and trolls- like enough already.
Not really. If the mobile market makes up a small percentage of the overall internet market (and I have no idea what the percentage is), then owning a big or small share of the mobile market is still irrelevant.
EXACTLY. And I've learned my lesson BIG time with the APple TV which was morphed into an iTunes DIgital JukeBox. Had I known that at the time of purchase I would have been like - NO WAY!
If Apple is trying to force you into iTunes, then why are they embracing HTML5 and H.264? You can do all your video streaming and rich web stuff, sans Flash, right now on your iPhone or iPod touch.
I've said it a dozen ( and counting), that we, as Americans, have yet to enjoy TV non wifi on a mobile device going from #3 to #28 in terms of global speed. Some speculate flash accounts for 85% of the web but that's counting ads. I say more like 50%, or even 25% if talking about websites.
Where flash does rise to 85-100% are on network sites watching Lost or The Forgotten and some are moving toward other delivery methods but it's mosty flash.
Whom ever gets a portable device to show TV programming non WiFi will do very well. I am also curious as to see obamas 80 billion Internet funding as he wants the web to count as a utility, which it sort of is. I wouldn't be surprised to see free nation wide wifi someday but it's coming.
Againg, the device that has a great touch website and TV media like on a desktop or laptop, will do very well.
Sorry no need to. Mac OSX has a small share and Adobe has no need to change for it and that's NO lie!
Apple are not asking them to. It you, iGenius and extremeskater are getting your knickers in a twist because apple people do not like Flash and prefer HTML5. As a consumer if a company is not supporting my choice of computer, then I have every right to use the apps, which gives me the best output for my computer.
As far as I concerned I really do not care for Flash until Adobe resolve the resource issues and btw Adobe do care as by their comments provided by Appleinsider in an earlier article.
I don't understand your comment, but what I said applies equally well to Adobe as it does Apple, because it is a simple market share issue.
As an arbitrary example, owning 50% of the mobile internet surfing market does not mean much if that market is only 1% of the ENTIRE internet surfing market.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
You are very wrong. Why you may ask?.... Developers! Have you noticed how many apps there are on the iPhone? There will be even more coming especially now with the iPad. They want to be able to reach as many people as possible which means they want to use standards that work on the iPhone/Touch/iPad/blackberry.
For our businesses I make sure there is no flash used so people with blackberrys and iPhones can access our webpages. We are obviously not the only ones.
Apple are not asking them to. It you, iGenius and extremeskater are getting your knickers in a twist because apple people do not like Flash and prefer HTML5. As a consumer if a company is not supporting my choice of computer, then I have every right to use the apps, which gives me the best output for my computer.
As far as I concerned I really do not care for Flash until Adobe resolve the resource issues and btw Adobe do care as by their comments provided by Appleinsider in an earlier article.
You are absolutely right. You have every right to use the apps that work best for your computer, and you have every right to find alternatives if you wish. You have the right to call for a boycott of a company that does not support your computer.
That is not the issue. The issue is that multiple posters want Flash to die.
In other words, multiple users want the rights that you want, and outlined above, and DENY those rights to others.
You are absolutely right. You have every right to use the apps that work best for your computer, and you have every right to find alternatives if you wish. You have the right to call for a boycott of a company that does not support your computer.
That is not the issue. The issue is that multiple posters want Flash to die.
In other words, multiple users want the rights that you want, and outlined above, and DENY those rights to others.
That is the issue.
That is true on both sides, we have Apple haters and Adobe haters who both have flawed thinking on this matter. Do you really think SJ would support HTML5, if Adobe had really supported Mac in the past.
My opinion: Flash makes Mac computer seem to consumer to be slow and less efficient in running the content. To untrained eye, the comment would be, damn my computer is slow and have negative opinion of Apple computers, not knowing it is actual Flash.
I for one thought this until I talked to techie, who told me the real story.
But here is the question that no one has really answered. Why does Flash have to die beyond the simplistic answer of it does not run well on a Mac?
some people answer because it is proprietary. If people are really concerned about proprietary software, why are they using a Mac, and not running a Linux box, using OpenOffice, Miro and all the rest?
The resource hog issue really only applies to Mac's, so then you are back to it not running on a Mac.
Ads will always be present, Flash or not.
So, the question remains, why must it die? This is not to say that people should not find alternatives if they wish, but as I said above, finding an alternative is not the same as eliminating an entire set of software tools.
Why shouldn't it die?
Flash is a solution to a problem that no longer exists, and now has become a problem in its own right. My view is that something as important as the delivery method for multimedia content over the internet should absolutely not be owned by any one company. Period.
The fact that Flash doesn't happen to work well on the Mac is really just an aside, but also amplifies the importance of fostering licensable industry standards that create a level playing field for competition and for consumers alike. Using the argument that Apple's marketshare doesn't entitle them or their customers to reasonable access to internet resources, aside from being specious, actually points out the flaw of allowing a company such as Adobe to arbitrarily decide who gets to play.
It's just wrong, and unless you're an Adobe shareholder, a Flash developer, or just simply hate Apple (or anybody else that isn't in Adobe's graces), then there is really no valid argument for Adobe to have such control over multimedia distribution.
That is true on both sides, we have Apple haters and Adobe haters who both have flawed thinking on this matter. Do you really think SJ would support HTML5, if Adobe had really supported Mac in the past.
My opinion: Flash makes Mac computer seem to consumer to be slow and less efficient in running the content. To untrained eye, the comment would be, damn my computer is slow and have negative opinion of Apple computers, not knowing it is actual Flash.
I for one thought this until I talked to techie, who told me the real story.
Yes, it is true on both sides, and I have made the same comments to Apple haters.
If Adobe had supported Flash on a Mac, the situation would be different, and SJ would not be acting this way, IMO.
I fully understand why Mac users don't like flash, although it is not too bad on FireFox, on the Macs I have (MBP and iMac), particularly after I installed the Adobe beta.
I also do understand why SJ doesn't want Flash on the iPhone, iTouch and iPad.
What I don't really understand is why those reasons are sufficient to call for Flash's death, and the denial of other users' rights to use software and programs they want.
I don't understand your comment, but what I said applies equally well to Adobe as it does Apple, because it is a simple market share issue.
As an arbitrary example, owning 50% of the mobile internet surfing market does not mean much if that market is only 1% of the ENTIRE internet surfing market.
Then maybe you should go back and read the original post that my response was answering. The point is that Adobe DOES care that Flash doesn't work on iPhone, iPod Touch, and now iPad. The reason is that Apple is selling millions of these devices every quarter, and Flash advertising does not reach those devices.
I don't know how to make it any more clear. The argument that Apple's marketshare is so small that Adobe doesn't need to care that Apple shuns Flash is bogus.
Comments
Agreed that Apple's share of the mobile market is huge. But that is not really the question, the question is what percentage of the ENTIRE web market is the mobile market.
The original question was "if Apple's marketshare is so small, then why does Adobe care about Apple?" (paraphrased) The answer I gave is relevant.
You need to chill and read entire discussion thread before bursting a blood vessel on his comments!
When someone calls someone a liar directly to a preceding post why must one read the whole thread? No blood vessel bursting but between his calling people liars and trolls- like enough already.
We all hate Adobe.
Ok, but why? Is it really as simple that Flash does not work as well on Macs as it does Windows machines, and that some Mac users feel slighted/ignored?
Someone remarked that the only time you see people saying they hate a software company is on the Apple Boards. I don't know if that is true, but it is reminiscent of how some people talk about Sony on the Home Theater boards.
The original question was "if Apple's marketshare is so small, then why does Adobe care about Apple?" (paraphrased) The answer I gave is relevant.
Not really. If the mobile market makes up a small percentage of the overall internet market (and I have no idea what the percentage is), then owning a big or small share of the mobile market is still irrelevant.
When someone calls someone a liar directly to a preceding post why must one read the whole thread? No blood vessel bursting but between his calling people liars and trolls- like enough already.
Yes read the entire thread and then comment.
Flash is a Bridge of Creative people and WebMedia.
Code Creators can't make media contents.
Flash is not just a CPU Hog plugin, but a Huge Creative Culture.
Smartphone and TabletPC need appealing contents media.
Yes read the entire thread and then comment.
Sorry no need to. Mac OSX has a small share and Adobe has no need to change for it and that's NO lie!
Not really. If the mobile market makes up a small percentage of the overall internet market (and I have no idea what the percentage is), then owning a big or small share of the mobile market is still irrelevant.
Tell that to Adobe.
EXACTLY. And I've learned my lesson BIG time with the APple TV which was morphed into an iTunes DIgital JukeBox. Had I known that at the time of purchase I would have been like - NO WAY!
If Apple is trying to force you into iTunes, then why are they embracing HTML5 and H.264? You can do all your video streaming and rich web stuff, sans Flash, right now on your iPhone or iPod touch.
Yes read the entire thread and then comment.
I've said it a dozen ( and counting), that we, as Americans, have yet to enjoy TV non wifi on a mobile device going from #3 to #28 in terms of global speed. Some speculate flash accounts for 85% of the web but that's counting ads. I say more like 50%, or even 25% if talking about websites.
Where flash does rise to 85-100% are on network sites watching Lost or The Forgotten and some are moving toward other delivery methods but it's mosty flash.
Whom ever gets a portable device to show TV programming non WiFi will do very well. I am also curious as to see obamas 80 billion Internet funding as he wants the web to count as a utility, which it sort of is. I wouldn't be surprised to see free nation wide wifi someday but it's coming.
Againg, the device that has a great touch website and TV media like on a desktop or laptop, will do very well.
Sorry no need to. Mac OSX has a small share and Adobe has no need to change for it and that's NO lie!
Apple are not asking them to. It you, iGenius and extremeskater are getting your knickers in a twist because apple people do not like Flash and prefer HTML5. As a consumer if a company is not supporting my choice of computer, then I have every right to use the apps, which gives me the best output for my computer.
As far as I concerned I really do not care for Flash until Adobe resolve the resource issues and btw Adobe do care as by their comments provided by Appleinsider in an earlier article.
Tell that to Adobe.
I don't understand your comment, but what I said applies equally well to Adobe as it does Apple, because it is a simple market share issue.
As an arbitrary example, owning 50% of the mobile internet surfing market does not mean much if that market is only 1% of the ENTIRE internet surfing market.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
You are very wrong. Why you may ask?.... Developers! Have you noticed how many apps there are on the iPhone? There will be even more coming especially now with the iPad. They want to be able to reach as many people as possible which means they want to use standards that work on the iPhone/Touch/iPad/blackberry.
For our businesses I make sure there is no flash used so people with blackberrys and iPhones can access our webpages. We are obviously not the only ones.
Apple are not asking them to. It you, iGenius and extremeskater are getting your knickers in a twist because apple people do not like Flash and prefer HTML5. As a consumer if a company is not supporting my choice of computer, then I have every right to use the apps, which gives me the best output for my computer.
As far as I concerned I really do not care for Flash until Adobe resolve the resource issues and btw Adobe do care as by their comments provided by Appleinsider in an earlier article.
You are absolutely right. You have every right to use the apps that work best for your computer, and you have every right to find alternatives if you wish. You have the right to call for a boycott of a company that does not support your computer.
That is not the issue. The issue is that multiple posters want Flash to die.
In other words, multiple users want the rights that you want, and outlined above, and DENY those rights to others.
That is the issue.
You are absolutely right. You have every right to use the apps that work best for your computer, and you have every right to find alternatives if you wish. You have the right to call for a boycott of a company that does not support your computer.
That is not the issue. The issue is that multiple posters want Flash to die.
In other words, multiple users want the rights that you want, and outlined above, and DENY those rights to others.
That is the issue.
That is true on both sides, we have Apple haters and Adobe haters who both have flawed thinking on this matter. Do you really think SJ would support HTML5, if Adobe had really supported Mac in the past.
My opinion: Flash makes Mac computer seem to consumer to be slow and less efficient in running the content. To untrained eye, the comment would be, damn my computer is slow and have negative opinion of Apple computers, not knowing it is actual Flash.
I for one thought this until I talked to techie, who told me the real story.
But here is the question that no one has really answered. Why does Flash have to die beyond the simplistic answer of it does not run well on a Mac?
some people answer because it is proprietary. If people are really concerned about proprietary software, why are they using a Mac, and not running a Linux box, using OpenOffice, Miro and all the rest?
The resource hog issue really only applies to Mac's, so then you are back to it not running on a Mac.
Ads will always be present, Flash or not.
So, the question remains, why must it die? This is not to say that people should not find alternatives if they wish, but as I said above, finding an alternative is not the same as eliminating an entire set of software tools.
Why shouldn't it die?
Flash is a solution to a problem that no longer exists, and now has become a problem in its own right. My view is that something as important as the delivery method for multimedia content over the internet should absolutely not be owned by any one company. Period.
The fact that Flash doesn't happen to work well on the Mac is really just an aside, but also amplifies the importance of fostering licensable industry standards that create a level playing field for competition and for consumers alike. Using the argument that Apple's marketshare doesn't entitle them or their customers to reasonable access to internet resources, aside from being specious, actually points out the flaw of allowing a company such as Adobe to arbitrarily decide who gets to play.
It's just wrong, and unless you're an Adobe shareholder, a Flash developer, or just simply hate Apple (or anybody else that isn't in Adobe's graces), then there is really no valid argument for Adobe to have such control over multimedia distribution.
That is true on both sides, we have Apple haters and Adobe haters who both have flawed thinking on this matter. Do you really think SJ would support HTML5, if Adobe had really supported Mac in the past.
My opinion: Flash makes Mac computer seem to consumer to be slow and less efficient in running the content. To untrained eye, the comment would be, damn my computer is slow and have negative opinion of Apple computers, not knowing it is actual Flash.
I for one thought this until I talked to techie, who told me the real story.
Yes, it is true on both sides, and I have made the same comments to Apple haters.
If Adobe had supported Flash on a Mac, the situation would be different, and SJ would not be acting this way, IMO.
I fully understand why Mac users don't like flash, although it is not too bad on FireFox, on the Macs I have (MBP and iMac), particularly after I installed the Adobe beta.
I also do understand why SJ doesn't want Flash on the iPhone, iTouch and iPad.
What I don't really understand is why those reasons are sufficient to call for Flash's death, and the denial of other users' rights to use software and programs they want.
It's not about technology. It's all about Money.
"Hey Adobe, This is my world, my country,
If you want do something in here, just pay Money!"
Just like iPhoneSDK...
"Hey Developers, This is my world, my country,
If you want make apps in here, just pay Money!"
Flash and Air will be Freeway of publish apps in Steve's Shiny&Tiny world.
That's because He hates Flash.
I don't understand your comment, but what I said applies equally well to Adobe as it does Apple, because it is a simple market share issue.
As an arbitrary example, owning 50% of the mobile internet surfing market does not mean much if that market is only 1% of the ENTIRE internet surfing market.
Then maybe you should go back and read the original post that my response was answering. The point is that Adobe DOES care that Flash doesn't work on iPhone, iPod Touch, and now iPad. The reason is that Apple is selling millions of these devices every quarter, and Flash advertising does not reach those devices.
I don't know how to make it any more clear. The argument that Apple's marketshare is so small that Adobe doesn't need to care that Apple shuns Flash is bogus.