It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
It's one thing to have opinion, it's another thing to outright lie. All you need to do is due the simple test outlined above, at your request to see the resource spike from using using Flash over the HTML5 video tag in YouTube.
I don't find Flash critical at all. First, I have a flash blocker on my desktop's browser and second, if I find a Flash requirement on my iPhone, I just move on. In fact, if a restaurant is solely a Flash site, I probably won't take the trouble to find out about it's menu and most likely won't eat there...
What I don;t like about flash is that I have no ability to stop an anoying or CPU hungry advert! I can't tell you how many times I use to leave web pages or put a window over an animation because it was so frikk'n annoying! If they would just allow me to right click on an animation and stop it I would much happier! Otherwise good riddance! Way to go Steve J.
Does it have to be a love/hate fest? I agree with Adobe - I think Apple has the horsepower to run flash on the ipad, so they should allow it.
Imagine you have a daughter coming of age and beginning to date. She brings home some AIDs infested clap carrying prick and expresses her love for the guy. Do you put up with or do you apply some standards?
In essence Apply is applying a little restraint to protect it's prized off spring. If other companies where to do the same, that is behave ethically, then the poison of Flash would go away.
By the way it is an issue of ethics. In many ways supplying Flash on a machine is like supplying cars with tires that blow out.
Quote:
When the iPhone came out they said it lacked the muscle to do flash well. Now the excuses are stability and that its not a "standard." Well, it's used all over the place, and will continue to do so for some time.
Yes it is used all over. However it is used far less than in the past. You as a user though can have a positive impact here by simply communicating your objections to flash to the owners of the web sites in question. Make them realize that it negatively impacts their business.
Quote:
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad.
Sickness is a reality of the human existance but that doesn't mean you should consort with those spreading disease. Rather you want to marginalized them and hopefully protect society as a whole. Yeah I know that flies in the face of current thinking but we are also paying dearly for that thinking.
So what we have here is Apple raising awareness for the community in general. They are in effect saying that consorting with flash will lead sickness on your machine. This is a very real problem in the PC world so it isn't like it's made up.
Frankly I think it is good for Apple to elevate themselves above the dregs of society.
Quote:
Internet in your hand . . . a load of bulls***t. I'll still get one, but I hope somehting changes.
Yeah me too, in my case I hope it is your attitude that changes. Maybe you like taking antibiotics (virus scanners, makeware deleters & etc) constantly. Many of us don't. The one nice thing about my iPhone is that I'm free of those concerns so far. Flash on the iPhone/iPad would be a high speed avenue to corrupted devices.
No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )
Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...
I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.
I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....
Apple: buy Adobe, recycle any useful parts, then kill it.
1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, especially when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is a for-profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.
And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is for a profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.
Oh I so wish this would happen. I hate Adobe with a passion.
Ditto.
Somewhat more chance than me getting back with my ex.
But ditto.
They really have more influence than one would believe right now, but Apple with it's current products and close ties to the Movie industry with Pixar/Disney would influence every aspect of media. Period.
Of course their first thing would be to either rewrite or change the Flash IDE to a HTML5 tool.
It's one thing to have opinion, it's another thing to outright lie. All you need to do is due the simple test outlined above, at your request to see the resource spike from using using Flash over the HTML5 video tag in YouTube.
It actually isnt a lie. The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.
The recommended (not minimum) requirements are as follows.
The system requirements for OSX is double for CPU and VRAM and insane for RAM. So clearly this is an OSX/Adobe issue not something Windows users face. If you do base this on market share this is why I stated this Flash/HTML5 issue is a NON issue for most users because most users run Windows and have more then enough hardware to run flash without any real hit in system resources.
On average a Windows user has at least a dual core, in many cases quad core, 4gb of Ram and at more then enough VRAM i would say 256-512mb min.
I believe an AMD 4200+ was a mid level cpu about 3 years ago. So clearl the system requirements are far greater for Mac users.
No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )
Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...
I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.
I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....
Flame on....
Simple answer: If, in 2010 going forward, your content does not play on the iPad/Apple devices, you're playing the wrong game.
Why is Flash on the way out (and faster than you think)? Because the most influential and important consumer tech company on the planet says it is. That's it. This is not the Apple of 1997. This is the Apple of 2010, and when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.
So when is Apple Insider going to stop using Flash? I'm seeing some very annoying Flash adverts at the moment.
Then get ClickToFlash. I don't see anything except a static grey box that says Flash.
AppleInsider is getting paid for keeping that ad there. And that ad was made with Flash. It's all about the money. Even if AppleInsider doesn't like Flash, they still want the green.
It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
Then I guess it's time for Apple to move on and use its influence to take the rest of the industry with it. No worries, one video standard will simply replace another one. It really should make no difference to you, unless you have some personal stake in Adobe.
Of course, the most well-heeled users of tech are on Macs and have Apple products, so it might be in the interest of content providers (and Adobe) to ensure Flash is fully optimized for them. But if you don't care about aiming where the money and disposable income is, it's your loss.
It actually isnt a lie. The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.
1) The conversation is about Flash being a resource hog compared to other options, not in comparison to different OSes where it's clear Flash is less developed on Mac OS X.
2) As you have astutely pointed out, Flash is a resource hog on Mac OS X, requiring an Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor or better, so why would you even argue that Flash would work just fine on the 412MHz to 600MHz iPhone ARM processors or the 1GHz processor in the iPad? Game. Set. Match.
1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
3. profit!
I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
What would happen? Adobe would go out of business. Have you ever seen a design shop? All Macs.
I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.
The entire Creative Suite should be killed and rewritten from the ground up. But it might be too late for that at this point.
Comments
It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
It's one thing to have opinion, it's another thing to outright lie. All you need to do is due the simple test outlined above, at your request to see the resource spike from using using Flash over the HTML5 video tag in YouTube.
KRR
Does it have to be a love/hate fest? I agree with Adobe - I think Apple has the horsepower to run flash on the ipad, so they should allow it.
Imagine you have a daughter coming of age and beginning to date. She brings home some AIDs infested clap carrying prick and expresses her love for the guy. Do you put up with or do you apply some standards?
In essence Apply is applying a little restraint to protect it's prized off spring. If other companies where to do the same, that is behave ethically, then the poison of Flash would go away.
By the way it is an issue of ethics. In many ways supplying Flash on a machine is like supplying cars with tires that blow out.
When the iPhone came out they said it lacked the muscle to do flash well. Now the excuses are stability and that its not a "standard." Well, it's used all over the place, and will continue to do so for some time.
Yes it is used all over. However it is used far less than in the past. You as a user though can have a positive impact here by simply communicating your objections to flash to the owners of the web sites in question. Make them realize that it negatively impacts their business.
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad.
Sickness is a reality of the human existance but that doesn't mean you should consort with those spreading disease. Rather you want to marginalized them and hopefully protect society as a whole. Yeah I know that flies in the face of current thinking but we are also paying dearly for that thinking.
So what we have here is Apple raising awareness for the community in general. They are in effect saying that consorting with flash will lead sickness on your machine. This is a very real problem in the PC world so it isn't like it's made up.
Frankly I think it is good for Apple to elevate themselves above the dregs of society.
Internet in your hand . . . a load of bulls***t. I'll still get one, but I hope somehting changes.
Yeah me too, in my case I hope it is your attitude that changes. Maybe you like taking antibiotics (virus scanners, makeware deleters & etc) constantly. Many of us don't. The one nice thing about my iPhone is that I'm free of those concerns so far. Flash on the iPhone/iPad would be a high speed avenue to corrupted devices.
Dave
Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...
I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.
I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....
Flame on....
Apple: buy Adobe, recycle any useful parts, then kill it.
1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
3. profit!
It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, especially when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is a for-profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.
And it's Apple's choice to include it or not, when the result is a lessening of the UX. Remember, Apple is for a profit company trying to make money, not some geek wanting to spank it to a spec sheet.
Duly printed and laminated. Classic! And so true.
Oh I so wish this would happen. I hate Adobe with a passion.
Ditto.
Somewhat more chance than me getting back with my ex.
But ditto.
They really have more influence than one would believe right now, but Apple with it's current products and close ties to the Movie industry with Pixar/Disney would influence every aspect of media. Period.
Of course their first thing would be to either rewrite or change the Flash IDE to a HTML5 tool.
Dreams never die, just the dreamer.
It's one thing to have opinion, it's another thing to outright lie. All you need to do is due the simple test outlined above, at your request to see the resource spike from using using Flash over the HTML5 video tag in YouTube.
It actually isnt a lie. The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.
The recommended (not minimum) requirements are as follows.
Windows 1920x1080
Intel Core Duo 1.8GHz, AMD Athlon? 64 X2 4200+ processor (or equivalent)
128MB of RAM
64MB of VRAM
OSX 1920x1080
Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor (or equivalent)
512MB of RAM
128MB of VRAM
The system requirements for OSX is double for CPU and VRAM and insane for RAM. So clearly this is an OSX/Adobe issue not something Windows users face. If you do base this on market share this is why I stated this Flash/HTML5 issue is a NON issue for most users because most users run Windows and have more then enough hardware to run flash without any real hit in system resources.
On average a Windows user has at least a dual core, in many cases quad core, 4gb of Ram and at more then enough VRAM i would say 256-512mb min.
I believe an AMD 4200+ was a mid level cpu about 3 years ago. So clearl the system requirements are far greater for Mac users.
No flash support = No sale for me...... ( That seems fair )
Several smart phones have been showing flash 10.1 on their device. It works... The argument that it can't work on a mobile processor is now moot. It might drain the battery, but it is my choice to use it or not...
Now, if in 4-5 years the majority of the video content is offered in something other than flash, and it improves the battery life of mobile devices. I'll be happy to switch. Until then I am not going to use a crippled web device simply because Steve Jobs does not like Adobe...
I am going to get an Android Phone sometime in March. I will make sure it has Android 2.1 and can support Flash 10.1. It might not be out just yet, but it will be out soon. It will most likely be the Nexus One ( or some other HTC creation ) or the Moto Driod. In my opinion these new Phones will make the iPad redundant to my needs.
I know that most of you guys think that Steve Jobs can force the entire web to shift gears and give us a Flash alternative soon. I believe it might be possible, but it will also be many years into the future. If these new Android phones that can support Flash 10.1 are a success (and see no reason why they will not be ) It will more or less make all of the arguments against supporting Flash on Apple products seem kind of silly....
Flame on....
Simple answer: If, in 2010 going forward, your content does not play on the iPad/Apple devices, you're playing the wrong game.
Why is Flash on the way out (and faster than you think)? Because the most influential and important consumer tech company on the planet says it is. That's it. This is not the Apple of 1997. This is the Apple of 2010, and when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.
So when is Apple Insider going to stop using Flash? I'm seeing some very annoying Flash adverts at the moment.
Then get ClickToFlash. I don't see anything except a static grey box that says Flash.
AppleInsider is getting paid for keeping that ad there. And that ad was made with Flash. It's all about the money. Even if AppleInsider doesn't like Flash, they still want the green.
It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
Then there should be no objection if Apple moves on and forgets about Flash?
It works fine on other brands of computers. Adobe has not put sufficient resources into the OSX version, presumably due to its low market share.
Then I guess it's time for Apple to move on and use its influence to take the rest of the industry with it. No worries, one video standard will simply replace another one. It really should make no difference to you, unless you have some personal stake in Adobe.
Of course, the most well-heeled users of tech are on Macs and have Apple products, so it might be in the interest of content providers (and Adobe) to ensure Flash is fully optimized for them. But if you don't care about aiming where the money and disposable income is, it's your loss.
It actually isnt a lie. The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.
1) The conversation is about Flash being a resource hog compared to other options, not in comparison to different OSes where it's clear Flash is less developed on Mac OS X.
2) As you have astutely pointed out, Flash is a resource hog on Mac OS X, requiring an Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor or better, so why would you even argue that Flash would work just fine on the 412MHz to 600MHz iPhone ARM processors or the 1GHz processor in the iPad? Game. Set. Match.
1. reverse the current adobe treatment of mac users. release 'apple photoshop' etc. with new features on the mac first, let windows development fall a couple years behind
2. sell lots and lots of high end mac pros to those that defected from the mac in the '90s.
3. profit!
I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.
Such a short-sighted comment. Lets say Flash went away tomorrow for good. Do you really believe that irritating ads are going away when Flash is gone? You'll be crying for ClickToHTML5. Adobe will resolve the Flash problems....Remember, these are the guys who wrote Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign and developed PDF as a Standard. Most of Adobe's tools are industry standards that have made careers for thousands and thousands of people. Flash CS5 allows developers to compile native iPhone/iPad apps ready for the App store. there are currently 5 Million Flash developers today. There is going to be a flood of new apps when CS5 is released......some great and some crappy just like there is now. Once Apple sees the new revenue stream on the App store along with Adobes efforts to re-tool Flash for a consistent CPU-hog free experience, Apple will embrace Flash. I love all that Steve Jobs has done so far, he's a true visionary, but, he WILL lose the war over Flash. HTML 5 will share the same fate as Silverlight, why? you may ask.....Developers! I wish Adobe would play hardball with Steve and tell him that if he can talk crap and ban Flash from the iPhone, then Adobe can talk crap and ban Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere and After Effects from running on the Mac. I wonder what would happen.
What would happen? Adobe would go out of business. Have you ever seen a design shop? All Macs.
I don't see why Apple should buy Adobe, but if they did, they should do nothing less than kill Photoshop for Windows and make it Mac-only, not to mention kill Flash as well.
The entire Creative Suite should be killed and rewritten from the ground up. But it might be too late for that at this point.
...and when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.
And when a new Android phone spec sheet is released elitist geeks grab a Kleenex, but for an entirely different reason.
Then there should be no objection if Apple moves on and forgets about Flash?
You beat me.