This part you have misunderstood (or I didn't say it clearly enough), that is not what I intended, sorry if you got that impression. The point I was trying to get across was that Apple purchased them, which aids my original arguement that Apples routinely purchases technologies.
And we weren't talking about technologies. We were talking about products. Final products.
You keep trying to turn the conversation to technologies.
One thing that you didn't mention where you would have been correct is that Apple didn't invent the mouse and windows environment--Xerox did. Jobs happened to stumble upon it when he visited Xerox to look at Xerox's printing technology that lead to laser printers.
All that aside, who knows what Jobs and the Mac group would have done if they stayed at Apple and were allowed to work developing the Mac OS unfettered by the people brought in to run Apple.
Actually, Apple was invited to tour Parc. What they came away with was what Xerox wanted them to come away with.
Maybe we can think of it this way--Apple gave back a part of the company Jobs co-founded for another company that Jobs founded. Kind of like Macintoshes for Granny Smiths. It is like Jobs was on sabbatical returning to Apple to implement what he and his crew developed when on leave at NeXT.
And how do we think of the Apple shares he received as his part of NeXT? You are missing the point of this, you are looking too much into this and totally missing the point
One thing that you didn't mention where you would have been correct is that Apple didn't invent the mouse and windows environment--Xerox did. Jobs happened to stumble upon it when he visited Xerox to look at Xerox's printing technology that lead to laser printers.
All that aside, who knows what Jobs and the Mac group would have done if they stayed at Apple and were allowed to work developing the Mac OS unfettered by the people brought in to run Apple.
How I know you don't understand the point I was making, I suggest you go back and re-read things.
What I'm talking about, and I've been very clear in that, is that Apple never buys a product, only to ship it out the way they got it. All of their products, even the ones they did buy, and we all know the software products they bought, are extensively modified s soon as is possible. They add significant features, they redo the GUI, they lower prices. Ad they often combine them with other software for a much more sophisticated product. Normally, after a couple of revisions, the original product is hardly recognizable.
Macromedia had abandoned their product when Apple bought it and totally redid it, naming it FCP.
No, that isn't what you said originally, you are now backtracking on your original statement.
Actually, Apple was invited to tour Parc. What they came away with was what Xerox wanted them to come away with.
Not to mention, the mouse was not invented by Xerox PARC. Douglas Englebart came up with the idea while he was at Stanford, as well as some of the other ideas which Xerox later used in their computer experiments at PARC. He (and they) were hardly the only computer scientists working on advanced interfaces during this time period. As with most types of science, the breakthrough isn't the idea, it's the implementation of the idea.
Yes I get it, I think you are blinded by your desire to be correct on everything.
And I think you re blinded by you're constant negativity, and attempts to put everything Apple does down.
Quote:
ok, lets take one Apple product, iTunes. Are you saying Apple designed iTunes entirely by themselves, with no basis from anyone else?
I mentioned iTunes earlier. I never said they didn'y buy Soundjam. I was using the program when Apple bought it. But, if you've actually been reading all my words, you would see what i'm talking about. Apple rapidly took that program which was pretty good at what it did, and revised it in major ways, opening up a whole world of functions that Soundjam never had. The owners of the program could never have done that. Only Apple could have, because they have the other products to interface with it.
It's not as though Apple bought itunes with the music store intact, and simply began selling it the way it was. SoundJam became the basis of a far greater concept and product range.
I've never denied that Apple buys technologies. Apple mentions this themselves all the time. SoundJam was a technology to them. Then they transformed it into what THEY wanted it to be.
Your concept, though you may not realize it is like Hp buying Compac, and has continued their product line years after the purchase. Apple has never done anything like that.
I'm well aware of what Apple has purchased, and what they've done with those purchases. Even if you find one or two minor software products that don't EXACTLY fit my definition, it's of no consequence, because it's such a minor part. No one here is claiming 100%, maybe 99.6%
That should be good enough to make the point, even to you.
And I think you re blinded by you're constant negativity, and attempts to put everything Apple does down.
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
I'm contemptuous of people who come on any site and write ninety five out of a hundred posts that are contemptuous of the subject of the site, and the people who are members.
I criticize Apple when I feel they don't do things right. But most of the time, they do things right, which is why they are doing so well now.
But you criticize almost everything. You are the oddball. It's not that most of us are fanboys, though a few are, its that you are a very negative person concerning Apple and its products. Also, apparently, of the members.
I answer your posts seriously. I could dismiss them, but I don't. I try to take them seriously. But too often, you go overboard. I sometimes think that you on't even read what I write before responding. You refuse to address the points I make. I try to address yours.
But you criticize almost everything. You are the oddball. It's not that most of us are fanboys, though a few are, its that you are a very negative person concerning Apple and its products. Also, apparently, of the members.
The only things I have criticized have been the iPhone and lack of Blu-Ray, yeah I guess that is everything that Apple does, as an Apple customer I can be critical of what they do if I want, would you rather this forum just be a bunch of people praising everything Apple does? Have fun with that little dream world. One thing though, can you clarify what the "Also, apparently, of the members" means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I answer your posts seriously. I could dismiss them, but I don't. I try to take them seriously. But too often, you go overboard. I sometimes think that you on't even read what I write before responding. You refuse to address the points I make. I try to address yours.
Again, just as I said before, I have addressed your points, and in this discussed proved you wrong, but you yourself have gone overboard in an effort to discredit everything I come up with to prove you wrong. Well I am sick of getting no where with you, you have proved you won't back down from your error, so I am done with the topic.
The only things I have criticized have been the iPhone and lack of Blu-Ray, yeah I guess that is everything that Apple does, as an Apple customer I can be critical of what they do if I want, would you rather this forum just be a bunch of people praising everything Apple does? Have fun with that little dream world. One thing though, can you clarify what the "Also, apparently, of the members" means?
Again, just as I said before, I have addressed your points, and in this discussed proved you wrong, but you yourself have gone overboard in an effort to discredit everything I come up with to prove you wrong. Well I am sick of getting no where with you, you have proved you won't back down from your error, so I am done with the topic.
The feel to your posts is that you are trying to come up with reasons not to buy into Apple's lines. That comes across very strongly. Yes, I know you will say that you are an Apple user, but it doesn't come across that way.
The discussion here, for example, seems to be that you feel that Apple has done little by itself, so we should be thinking that they come up with new ides or products, because much of it was purchased elsewhere. That's pretty negative.
Quote:
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
That says a lot.
You don't seem to realize that you aren't backing down either. You also haven't proven anything. You're just attacking, and thinking that it gives you some kind of "win" to your argument. It doesn't. It just leaves you with a sad post.
I've spoken many times about how unhappy I am about Apple not including Blu-Ray. That's in another discussion going on right now. A couple of days ago I stated that Apple's monitors aren't good enough for high quality graphics or color work. I could go on from there.
But it's the way it's presented. You present it as "Apple sucks".
The feel to your posts is that you are trying to come up with reasons not to buy into Apple's lines. That comes across very strongly. Yes, I know you will say that you are an Apple user, but it doesn't come across that way.
So by your definition an Apple user should be praising every product they release regardless of the item?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The discussion here, for example, seems to be that you feel that Apple has done little by itself, so we should be thinking that they come up with new ides or products, because much of it was purchased elsewhere. That's pretty negative.
That is how you have decided to understand it, that isn't what I have said, and that isn't what I meant, you decided to read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
But it's the way it's presented. You present it as "Apple sucks".
Like I have said, I haven't, that is the way you have tried to read it, if I thought Apple sucked I must have wasted a lot of money purchasing their products then.
And how do we think of the Apple shares he received as his part of NeXT? You are missing the point of this, you are looking too much into this and totally missing the point
Actually I think from what others are saying, it appears that you are the one missing the point and it's not worth my time belaboring how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
So by your definition an Apple user should be praising every product they release regardless of the item?
See, you don't read everything I write.
Quote:
That is how you have decided to understand it, that isn't what I have said, and that isn't what I meant, you decided to read.
I can't get into your head, so I don't know what you meant to write. but I can read what you write, and that's the way it comes out.
Quote:
Like I have said, I haven't, that is the way you have tried to read it, if I thought Apple sucked I must have wasted a lot of money purchasing their products then.
It's not the way I choose to read it, it's the way it's written. If you like Apple products, then it wouldn't hurt to balance your views once in a while.
Comments
This part you have misunderstood (or I didn't say it clearly enough), that is not what I intended, sorry if you got that impression. The point I was trying to get across was that Apple purchased them, which aids my original arguement that Apples routinely purchases technologies.
And we weren't talking about technologies. We were talking about products. Final products.
You keep trying to turn the conversation to technologies.
One thing that you didn't mention where you would have been correct is that Apple didn't invent the mouse and windows environment--Xerox did. Jobs happened to stumble upon it when he visited Xerox to look at Xerox's printing technology that lead to laser printers.
All that aside, who knows what Jobs and the Mac group would have done if they stayed at Apple and were allowed to work developing the Mac OS unfettered by the people brought in to run Apple.
Actually, Apple was invited to tour Parc. What they came away with was what Xerox wanted them to come away with.
Maybe we can think of it this way--Apple gave back a part of the company Jobs co-founded for another company that Jobs founded. Kind of like Macintoshes for Granny Smiths. It is like Jobs was on sabbatical returning to Apple to implement what he and his crew developed when on leave at NeXT.
And how do we think of the Apple shares he received as his part of NeXT? You are missing the point of this, you are looking too much into this and totally missing the point
One thing that you didn't mention where you would have been correct is that Apple didn't invent the mouse and windows environment--Xerox did. Jobs happened to stumble upon it when he visited Xerox to look at Xerox's printing technology that lead to laser printers.
All that aside, who knows what Jobs and the Mac group would have done if they stayed at Apple and were allowed to work developing the Mac OS unfettered by the people brought in to run Apple.
How I know you don't understand the point I was making, I suggest you go back and re-read things.
My oh my, you just don't get it, do you?
Yes I get it, I think you are blinded by your desire to be correct on everything.
We're not talking about "technologies". You've changed the argument to that because you lost the original one, which was "products".
ok, lets take one Apple product, iTunes. Are you saying Apple designed iTunes entirely by themselves, with no basis from anyone else?
What I'm talking about, and I've been very clear in that, is that Apple never buys a product, only to ship it out the way they got it. All of their products, even the ones they did buy, and we all know the software products they bought, are extensively modified s soon as is possible. They add significant features, they redo the GUI, they lower prices. Ad they often combine them with other software for a much more sophisticated product. Normally, after a couple of revisions, the original product is hardly recognizable.
Macromedia had abandoned their product when Apple bought it and totally redid it, naming it FCP.
No, that isn't what you said originally, you are now backtracking on your original statement.
And we weren't talking about technologies. We were talking about products. Final products.
You keep trying to turn the conversation to technologies.
Fine, change all references of my from technologies to products, the statement is still correct.
Actually, Apple was invited to tour Parc. What they came away with was what Xerox wanted them to come away with.
Not to mention, the mouse was not invented by Xerox PARC. Douglas Englebart came up with the idea while he was at Stanford, as well as some of the other ideas which Xerox later used in their computer experiments at PARC. He (and they) were hardly the only computer scientists working on advanced interfaces during this time period. As with most types of science, the breakthrough isn't the idea, it's the implementation of the idea.
Yes I get it, I think you are blinded by your desire to be correct on everything.
And I think you re blinded by you're constant negativity, and attempts to put everything Apple does down.
ok, lets take one Apple product, iTunes. Are you saying Apple designed iTunes entirely by themselves, with no basis from anyone else?
I mentioned iTunes earlier. I never said they didn'y buy Soundjam. I was using the program when Apple bought it. But, if you've actually been reading all my words, you would see what i'm talking about. Apple rapidly took that program which was pretty good at what it did, and revised it in major ways, opening up a whole world of functions that Soundjam never had. The owners of the program could never have done that. Only Apple could have, because they have the other products to interface with it.
It's not as though Apple bought itunes with the music store intact, and simply began selling it the way it was. SoundJam became the basis of a far greater concept and product range.
I've never denied that Apple buys technologies. Apple mentions this themselves all the time. SoundJam was a technology to them. Then they transformed it into what THEY wanted it to be.
Your concept, though you may not realize it is like Hp buying Compac, and has continued their product line years after the purchase. Apple has never done anything like that.
I'm well aware of what Apple has purchased, and what they've done with those purchases. Even if you find one or two minor software products that don't EXACTLY fit my definition, it's of no consequence, because it's such a minor part. No one here is claiming 100%, maybe 99.6%
That should be good enough to make the point, even to you.
No, that isn't what you said originally, you are now backtracking on your original statement.
No I'm not.
Fine, change all references of my from technologies to products, the statement is still correct.
And no, you're not.
And I think you re blinded by you're constant negativity, and attempts to put everything Apple does down.
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
I'm contemptuous of people who come on any site and write ninety five out of a hundred posts that are contemptuous of the subject of the site, and the people who are members.
I criticize Apple when I feel they don't do things right. But most of the time, they do things right, which is why they are doing so well now.
But you criticize almost everything. You are the oddball. It's not that most of us are fanboys, though a few are, its that you are a very negative person concerning Apple and its products. Also, apparently, of the members.
I answer your posts seriously. I could dismiss them, but I don't. I try to take them seriously. But too often, you go overboard. I sometimes think that you on't even read what I write before responding. You refuse to address the points I make. I try to address yours.
But you criticize almost everything. You are the oddball. It's not that most of us are fanboys, though a few are, its that you are a very negative person concerning Apple and its products. Also, apparently, of the members.
The only things I have criticized have been the iPhone and lack of Blu-Ray, yeah I guess that is everything that Apple does, as an Apple customer I can be critical of what they do if I want, would you rather this forum just be a bunch of people praising everything Apple does? Have fun with that little dream world. One thing though, can you clarify what the "Also, apparently, of the members" means?
I answer your posts seriously. I could dismiss them, but I don't. I try to take them seriously. But too often, you go overboard. I sometimes think that you on't even read what I write before responding. You refuse to address the points I make. I try to address yours.
Again, just as I said before, I have addressed your points, and in this discussed proved you wrong, but you yourself have gone overboard in an effort to discredit everything I come up with to prove you wrong. Well I am sick of getting no where with you, you have proved you won't back down from your error, so I am done with the topic.
The only things I have criticized have been the iPhone and lack of Blu-Ray, yeah I guess that is everything that Apple does, as an Apple customer I can be critical of what they do if I want, would you rather this forum just be a bunch of people praising everything Apple does? Have fun with that little dream world. One thing though, can you clarify what the "Also, apparently, of the members" means?
Again, just as I said before, I have addressed your points, and in this discussed proved you wrong, but you yourself have gone overboard in an effort to discredit everything I come up with to prove you wrong. Well I am sick of getting no where with you, you have proved you won't back down from your error, so I am done with the topic.
The feel to your posts is that you are trying to come up with reasons not to buy into Apple's lines. That comes across very strongly. Yes, I know you will say that you are an Apple user, but it doesn't come across that way.
The discussion here, for example, seems to be that you feel that Apple has done little by itself, so we should be thinking that they come up with new ides or products, because much of it was purchased elsewhere. That's pretty negative.
There, this proves my point that you, and others here had some contempt for anybody that doesn't praise every single product Apple makes. I haven't once said anything negative regarding Apple in this conversation, but you are all blinded by your hatred to even see that.
Says a lot about rabid fanboys, and people wonder why some people are turned off by buying Apple products, their rabid customer base does more harm than good.
That says a lot.
You don't seem to realize that you aren't backing down either. You also haven't proven anything. You're just attacking, and thinking that it gives you some kind of "win" to your argument. It doesn't. It just leaves you with a sad post.
I've spoken many times about how unhappy I am about Apple not including Blu-Ray. That's in another discussion going on right now. A couple of days ago I stated that Apple's monitors aren't good enough for high quality graphics or color work. I could go on from there.
But it's the way it's presented. You present it as "Apple sucks".
The feel to your posts is that you are trying to come up with reasons not to buy into Apple's lines. That comes across very strongly. Yes, I know you will say that you are an Apple user, but it doesn't come across that way.
So by your definition an Apple user should be praising every product they release regardless of the item?
The discussion here, for example, seems to be that you feel that Apple has done little by itself, so we should be thinking that they come up with new ides or products, because much of it was purchased elsewhere. That's pretty negative.
That is how you have decided to understand it, that isn't what I have said, and that isn't what I meant, you decided to read.
But it's the way it's presented. You present it as "Apple sucks".
Like I have said, I haven't, that is the way you have tried to read it, if I thought Apple sucked I must have wasted a lot of money purchasing their products then.
And how do we think of the Apple shares he received as his part of NeXT? You are missing the point of this, you are looking too much into this and totally missing the point
Actually I think from what others are saying, it appears that you are the one missing the point and it's not worth my time belaboring how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
bye bye
So by your definition an Apple user should be praising every product they release regardless of the item?
See, you don't read everything I write.
That is how you have decided to understand it, that isn't what I have said, and that isn't what I meant, you decided to read.
I can't get into your head, so I don't know what you meant to write. but I can read what you write, and that's the way it comes out.
Like I have said, I haven't, that is the way you have tried to read it, if I thought Apple sucked I must have wasted a lot of money purchasing their products then.
It's not the way I choose to read it, it's the way it's written. If you like Apple products, then it wouldn't hurt to balance your views once in a while.