I think you have described the real main audience for the iPad (in addition to our elders, who may also want a 'casual computer' for common tasks like e-mail and web browsing).
If one is going to compare the iPad 3G to the MacBook, one might want to first compare the MacBook (or even the 13" MacBook Pro) to the MacBook Air: The latter is less powerful than the former, lacks a DVD drive, and yet is much more expensive, because of its smaller form factor and lesser weight.
Now, the top of the line iPad, with all the accessories one might throw at it, does comes near the price of the MacBook. But even aside from all its previously mentioned features, such as multi-touch input, accelerometer, and light weight, it has one thing going for it that really shifts the price equation. And that is the $30/month stand alone, no contract data plan, which AT&T has not offered for any other device. Were one to purchase a MacBook to use in a similar fashion, a 3G dongle would add considerably to the cost, and the data plan would be twice the price as for the iPad. I estimate the difference (over the length of a two year contract for the dongle) would come close to $1000 (including taxes). All of a sudden the top of the line iPad looks a lot more affordable. Oh, and of course there is nothing preventing any one from just buying the $630 base line 3G model and saving a couple hundred dollars more. That is what I am considering, and I haven't purchased a new Apple product in the past twelve years. Which is why from my vantage point the market looks huge.
BTW, does anyone know if Apple's iPad case includes a shoulder strap? If not, it would be great if some manufacturer could fashion one for it.
Wow. Do you really believe the stuff you write??? The iPad could very well be the next G4 Cube. An overpriced dud in which other Apple products do so much more. 6 million in a year? You live in a dreamworld.
The big difference between the iPhone/iPod Touch and iPad is portability. The iPad is NOT portable like the iPhone/iPod Touch. You can take the iPhone/iPod Touch anywhere in your pocket, but you have lug around an iPad. It may be light, but it is not small.
It has already been pointed out that the high end iPad with accessories is $30 less than a full-featured MacBook that does far more than the iPad. Only an idiot would buy an iPad over a MacBook when there is a $30 difference (A MacBook refurb would be even less). That was the Cube's failure. The Power Mac G4 was faster, did far more, and in that case, cost $300 less. That was a no-brainer...the Power Mac G4 demolished the Cube in sales.
Do you believe the stuff YOU write? What's up with your fetish over Manbags? Most professionals carry briefcases, have you ever heard of them? Most students and many younger professionals carry small backpacks. iPad will fit very nicely in either one. When I go into a coffeshop, I see a laptop on nearly every table. How exactly is it that an iPad will be debilitating to carry with?
Perhaps after your prognostications over iPad's grand failure are proven wrong, you can come back here and enjoy a fat piece of humble pie. I'm not one to jump into the numbers game, but I predict that iPad will do very well. I suspect that Apple will have a difficult time meeting demand out of the gate and probably won't catch up until nearly summer. I also expect that Apple will sell iPads by the container load to the education market in the Fall.
iPad as the next Cube? Well, in this case, there is no $300 cheaper Apple product that does more. In that regard, I would suggest that Apple has learned their Cube lesson well. That the most expensive iPad plus accessories comes in at just less than a Macbook not only seems right to me, it seems like Apple hit the bullseye.
It doesn't surprise me at all that not everybody wants an iPad (right now), but your arguments here are a mystery to me.
This thread seems to be made almost entirely out of flames.
That being said, I cannot ignore this comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
W... Only an idiot would buy an iPad over a MacBook when there is a $30 difference (A MacBook refurb would be even less). That was the Cube's failure. The Power Mac G4 was faster, did far more, and in that case, cost $300 less. That was a no-brainer...the Power Mac G4 demolished the Cube in sales.
This is totally false (or at the very least you are exaggerating like there is no tomorrow here.)
The power Mac Cube and the tower version available at the same time were pretty much the same in terms of speed and power. The Cube was more expensive, but it was argued that you were paying for the compact size and the fact that it was silent, whereas most computers at the time including the G4 towers, made quite a noise with the fans and all. It was also a way of having an attractive "executive" computer that sat on your desktop instead of a tower that sat in the dust under the desk.
True, a part of the reason it failed to sell well was simply because not enough people wanted to pay the premium for those qualities. It was not however significantly different in speed and utility than the G4 tower. For you to imply that the towers of the time were "faster, (and) did far more," is just not true.
More importantly to the Cube's "failure," was that those that did buy one found that many had heat related problems that would lead it to shut down or indeed fail unexpectedly. This gave it a bad rep in the IT dept who already (let's face it) viewed it as a "silly" machine. I remember at the time lots of folks calling it a "girls computer" and mocking anyone who chose to use it simply because it was quiet and nice looking. These being insufficiently macho qualities apparently ("real computers make noise dammit!").
By the time the heat related issues were fixed, the G4 tower had already been upgraded to be slightly faster, and the reasons for buying the Cube became even harder to justify. Shortly after that it was abandoned by Apple.
In any case, your entire argument is based on the idea that the iPad is going to fail because it does less, even though it costs more. There are many reasons why this is a simplistic and not very convincing analysis, but even if I believed you, I have to say that your example of this effect (the PowerMac Cube), is simply wrong.
Also, $30 less than a full featured MacBook that does so much more! But I am sure some will fall for that one and realize later they should have bought a new MacBook instead.
You keep saying this over and over but this is also not really true.
MacBooks don't have cell antennae.
The top of the line iPad (without a cell antenna so as to compare to the MacBook), is $300 cheaper than the MacBook, not $30.
Your arguments might be more convincing without the lying and hyperbole.
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
You keep saying this over and over but this is also not really true.
MacBooks don't have cell antennae.
The top of the line iPad (without a cell antenna so as to compare to the MacBook), is $300 cheaper than the MacBook, not $30.
Your arguments might be more convincing without the lying and hyperbole.
For anyone that already uses 3G turning your Macbook/MBP into a 3G device is as simple as using your card you already have. Besides we were talking about an iPad with added accessories another member mentions like the carrying case which was 70.00 and a BT keyboard which was also 70.00 for an added cost of 140.00. Take that along with the top of the line iPad and you are 30.00 away from a Macbook.
Also take into consideration the top the line iPad doesn't even come close to having the power or features of a Macbook.
We were also taking about if you have to buy a case that stands the iPad upright and then add a keyboard you pretty much have hte footprint of a notebook and have to lug around all the extra accessories.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
If one is going to compare the iPad 3G to the MacBook, one might want to first compare the MacBook (or even the 13" MacBook Pro)
Good point and actually that comparison is made here all the time and the end result most of the time is members say they might as well pay the extra money to get the advantages of the MBP because they are so close in price.
So if we use that standard then why would anyone buy and iPad at 829.00 and a BT keyboard when they can get a Macbook for 30.00 more. When clearly if you feel the need to buy a keyboard for the iPad and have to carry both around a Macbook is the better option.
This is why Tablets have never gained any real market share.
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
I don't know what this post has to do with anything!
Quote:
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
No one is saying that everyone in this forum will run to Apple Stores to buy an iPad when it is release. We are saying there is a market for the iPad. Just few hour on CNBC they were talking about Apple and the iPad and everyone agreed that the iPad will sell very well. You just said few posts ago that the iPad will do well. I don't know what are you arguing about!
For anyone that already uses 3G turning your Macbook/MBP into a 3G device is as simple as using your card you already have. Besides we were talking about an iPad with added accessories another member mentions like the carrying case which was 70.00 and a BT keyboard which was also 70.00 for an added cost of 140.00. Take that along with the top of the line iPad and you are 30.00 away from a Macbook.
Also take into consideration the top the line iPad doesn't even come close to having the power or features of a Macbook.
We were also taking about if you have to buy a case that stands the iPad upright and then add a keyboard you pretty much have hte footprint of a notebook and have to lug around all the extra accessories.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
However that isn't what we were talking about.
We didn't say with the high end iPad model, you said it. If someone buys an iPad ($499) plus the BT keyboard and case ($140) then the total is $650, which is $350 less than a MB not $30 like you mentioned. You want to add 3G? then add the cost of 3G to BOTH devices not just one of them.
So if we use that standard then why would anyone buy and iPad at 829.00 and a BT keyboard when they can get a Macbook for 30.00 more. When clearly if you feel the need to buy a keyboard for the iPad and have to carry both around a Macbook is the better option.
This is why Tablets have never gained any real market share.
You really are getting you knickers in a twist here, aren't you. Before you go on you should sit down and brainstorm with yourself. How does (might) the iPad differ from a conventional Tablet? What kind of uses might the iPad be good at? What kind of user might benefit from the iPad? When you run out of thoughts and ideas, add this - Why might a user who HATES computers enjoy an iPad? Treat this like a marketing exercise - there is no requirement to want one yourself afterwards.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
However that isn't what we were talking about.
Jeez, if I wanted to spend $1000 on a computer that still makes you use a keyboard and mouse, I would. If I wanted to spend $300 on a really small version of the iPad, I would. But since I want a version with a larger screen, more power, more connectivity, and all the other advantages an iPad has over an iPod touch, that's what I'll buy. Why would I waste that money on a Macbook when it won't be half as useful? You'd have to be an idiot to spend $999 on a Macbook when you could get an iPad with 3G and a BT keyboard and a nice case for $30 less.
But a low end Mackbook is still far more powerful then a high end iPad. Also what do you feel an iPad would excel at that a Macbook couldn't do far better?
The iPad does some things better than any notebook.
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
I agree with most of what you say here - everything in fact EXCEPT the size of the gap you state... that is the crux of the entire iPad debate... what is the size of the "gap" in the market?
Apple predicts it as being huge, you don't. They have done research, you haven't. There are stats showing that 13% of a random sample are going to buy one at/near launch... that is huge for a new product with no real precursor...
I'm not piling on and your argument about the gaming forum is dead on... we just have to wait and see how big that market is. My basic and unscientific evidence is that I have probably got 30 people to switch to Mac over the last decade, and I still have to tech support almost every one of them at some time or other (and Mac is easy). Their use of their iMacs and Macbooks is largely rudimentary. For most of them, the Macbook is also a desktop since it is to awkward to move it and use it elsewhere (older people and families where the kids would wreck it if you left it off the desk). An iPad would be perfect for them and almost all of them have the disposable income to afford at least the basic one on a whim. They won't need 64GB, 3G access etc... All I'll need to do is bring mine over and I predict sales. I truly believe that it will liberate casual users from the office/desk - that to me is a huge market in itself, ignoring the huge educational and vertical uses. It will do to general computing what Wii did to console gaming - find a new and larger (and more profitable) market. Remember the Wii was basic hardware, far lower capability but crushed the PS3 and XBox 360 with higher margins (basically still a gamecube inside). The experience is what ruled and so it will for the iPad (IMHO).
My friend's wife has recently experienced the same thing with a little pink Toshiba netbook - can't get her off the thing now it is in her lap, but there isn't a thing she does on it that wouldn't be more fun/better on an iPad.
I'm interested to see what the company 22moo will do with they're game bone pro, and also what other companies will do with adding game controllers and developers making their games to work with those controllers, more like ps3/xbox style not like that ridiculous idrift .
It would also be cool if at&t allowed for existing iphone customers to cancel they're data plan on iphone maybe lock it if they get a data plan for the ipad or any type of solution for customers who will have both products
Comments
Do you take a backpack or notebook to work everyday? I don't. However, I do take my iPhone.
Million of students do.
Million of students do.
I think you have described the real main audience for the iPad (in addition to our elders, who may also want a 'casual computer' for common tasks like e-mail and web browsing).
Now, the top of the line iPad, with all the accessories one might throw at it, does comes near the price of the MacBook. But even aside from all its previously mentioned features, such as multi-touch input, accelerometer, and light weight, it has one thing going for it that really shifts the price equation. And that is the $30/month stand alone, no contract data plan, which AT&T has not offered for any other device. Were one to purchase a MacBook to use in a similar fashion, a 3G dongle would add considerably to the cost, and the data plan would be twice the price as for the iPad. I estimate the difference (over the length of a two year contract for the dongle) would come close to $1000 (including taxes). All of a sudden the top of the line iPad looks a lot more affordable. Oh, and of course there is nothing preventing any one from just buying the $630 base line 3G model and saving a couple hundred dollars more. That is what I am considering, and I haven't purchased a new Apple product in the past twelve years. Which is why from my vantage point the market looks huge.
BTW, does anyone know if Apple's iPad case includes a shoulder strap? If not, it would be great if some manufacturer could fashion one for it.
Wow. Do you really believe the stuff you write??? The iPad could very well be the next G4 Cube. An overpriced dud in which other Apple products do so much more. 6 million in a year? You live in a dreamworld.
The big difference between the iPhone/iPod Touch and iPad is portability. The iPad is NOT portable like the iPhone/iPod Touch. You can take the iPhone/iPod Touch anywhere in your pocket, but you have lug around an iPad. It may be light, but it is not small.
It has already been pointed out that the high end iPad with accessories is $30 less than a full-featured MacBook that does far more than the iPad. Only an idiot would buy an iPad over a MacBook when there is a $30 difference (A MacBook refurb would be even less). That was the Cube's failure. The Power Mac G4 was faster, did far more, and in that case, cost $300 less. That was a no-brainer...the Power Mac G4 demolished the Cube in sales.
Do you believe the stuff YOU write? What's up with your fetish over Manbags? Most professionals carry briefcases, have you ever heard of them? Most students and many younger professionals carry small backpacks. iPad will fit very nicely in either one. When I go into a coffeshop, I see a laptop on nearly every table. How exactly is it that an iPad will be debilitating to carry with?
Perhaps after your prognostications over iPad's grand failure are proven wrong, you can come back here and enjoy a fat piece of humble pie. I'm not one to jump into the numbers game, but I predict that iPad will do very well. I suspect that Apple will have a difficult time meeting demand out of the gate and probably won't catch up until nearly summer. I also expect that Apple will sell iPads by the container load to the education market in the Fall.
iPad as the next Cube? Well, in this case, there is no $300 cheaper Apple product that does more. In that regard, I would suggest that Apple has learned their Cube lesson well. That the most expensive iPad plus accessories comes in at just less than a Macbook not only seems right to me, it seems like Apple hit the bullseye.
It doesn't surprise me at all that not everybody wants an iPad (right now), but your arguments here are a mystery to me.
I am sure the iPad Geeks can't wait to carry around their iPad in their accessory MAN PURSE...at least until they get laughed at.
Man, you are lame
That being said, I cannot ignore this comment.
W... Only an idiot would buy an iPad over a MacBook when there is a $30 difference (A MacBook refurb would be even less). That was the Cube's failure. The Power Mac G4 was faster, did far more, and in that case, cost $300 less. That was a no-brainer...the Power Mac G4 demolished the Cube in sales.
This is totally false (or at the very least you are exaggerating like there is no tomorrow here.)
The power Mac Cube and the tower version available at the same time were pretty much the same in terms of speed and power. The Cube was more expensive, but it was argued that you were paying for the compact size and the fact that it was silent, whereas most computers at the time including the G4 towers, made quite a noise with the fans and all. It was also a way of having an attractive "executive" computer that sat on your desktop instead of a tower that sat in the dust under the desk.
True, a part of the reason it failed to sell well was simply because not enough people wanted to pay the premium for those qualities. It was not however significantly different in speed and utility than the G4 tower. For you to imply that the towers of the time were "faster, (and) did far more," is just not true.
More importantly to the Cube's "failure," was that those that did buy one found that many had heat related problems that would lead it to shut down or indeed fail unexpectedly. This gave it a bad rep in the IT dept who already (let's face it) viewed it as a "silly" machine. I remember at the time lots of folks calling it a "girls computer" and mocking anyone who chose to use it simply because it was quiet and nice looking. These being insufficiently macho qualities apparently ("real computers make noise dammit!").
By the time the heat related issues were fixed, the G4 tower had already been upgraded to be slightly faster, and the reasons for buying the Cube became even harder to justify. Shortly after that it was abandoned by Apple.
In any case, your entire argument is based on the idea that the iPad is going to fail because it does less, even though it costs more. There are many reasons why this is a simplistic and not very convincing analysis, but even if I believed you, I have to say that your example of this effect (the PowerMac Cube), is simply wrong.
Also, $30 less than a full featured MacBook that does so much more! But I am sure some will fall for that one and realize later they should have bought a new MacBook instead.
You keep saying this over and over but this is also not really true.
MacBooks don't have cell antennae.
The top of the line iPad (without a cell antenna so as to compare to the MacBook), is $300 cheaper than the MacBook, not $30.
Your arguments might be more convincing without the lying and hyperbole.
Oh, and Apple is Doomed?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
You keep saying this over and over but this is also not really true.
MacBooks don't have cell antennae.
The top of the line iPad (without a cell antenna so as to compare to the MacBook), is $300 cheaper than the MacBook, not $30.
Your arguments might be more convincing without the lying and hyperbole.
For anyone that already uses 3G turning your Macbook/MBP into a 3G device is as simple as using your card you already have. Besides we were talking about an iPad with added accessories another member mentions like the carrying case which was 70.00 and a BT keyboard which was also 70.00 for an added cost of 140.00. Take that along with the top of the line iPad and you are 30.00 away from a Macbook.
Also take into consideration the top the line iPad doesn't even come close to having the power or features of a Macbook.
We were also taking about if you have to buy a case that stands the iPad upright and then add a keyboard you pretty much have hte footprint of a notebook and have to lug around all the extra accessories.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
However that isn't what we were talking about.
If one is going to compare the iPad 3G to the MacBook, one might want to first compare the MacBook (or even the 13" MacBook Pro)
Good point and actually that comparison is made here all the time and the end result most of the time is members say they might as well pay the extra money to get the advantages of the MBP because they are so close in price.
So if we use that standard then why would anyone buy and iPad at 829.00 and a BT keyboard when they can get a Macbook for 30.00 more. When clearly if you feel the need to buy a keyboard for the iPad and have to carry both around a Macbook is the better option.
This is why Tablets have never gained any real market share.
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
I don't know what this post has to do with anything!
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
No one is saying that everyone in this forum will run to Apple Stores to buy an iPad when it is release. We are saying there is a market for the iPad. Just few hour on CNBC they were talking about Apple and the iPad and everyone agreed that the iPad will sell very well. You just said few posts ago that the iPad will do well. I don't know what are you arguing about!
For anyone that already uses 3G turning your Macbook/MBP into a 3G device is as simple as using your card you already have. Besides we were talking about an iPad with added accessories another member mentions like the carrying case which was 70.00 and a BT keyboard which was also 70.00 for an added cost of 140.00. Take that along with the top of the line iPad and you are 30.00 away from a Macbook.
Also take into consideration the top the line iPad doesn't even come close to having the power or features of a Macbook.
We were also taking about if you have to buy a case that stands the iPad upright and then add a keyboard you pretty much have hte footprint of a notebook and have to lug around all the extra accessories.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
However that isn't what we were talking about.
We didn't say with the high end iPad model, you said it. If someone buys an iPad ($499) plus the BT keyboard and case ($140) then the total is $650, which is $350 less than a MB not $30 like you mentioned. You want to add 3G? then add the cost of 3G to BOTH devices not just one of them.
So if we use that standard then why would anyone buy and iPad at 829.00 and a BT keyboard when they can get a Macbook for 30.00 more. When clearly if you feel the need to buy a keyboard for the iPad and have to carry both around a Macbook is the better option.
This is why Tablets have never gained any real market share.
You really are getting you knickers in a twist here, aren't you. Before you go on you should sit down and brainstorm with yourself. How does (might) the iPad differ from a conventional Tablet? What kind of uses might the iPad be good at? What kind of user might benefit from the iPad? When you run out of thoughts and ideas, add this - Why might a user who HATES computers enjoy an iPad? Treat this like a marketing exercise - there is no requirement to want one yourself afterwards.
People get so upset here when you start a simple debate and expand the topic. You are right if all you want is a 499.00 iPad that is nothing more then an iPod Touch with a beta SDK running on it then that is the way to go.
However that isn't what we were talking about.
Jeez, if I wanted to spend $1000 on a computer that still makes you use a keyboard and mouse, I would. If I wanted to spend $300 on a really small version of the iPad, I would. But since I want a version with a larger screen, more power, more connectivity, and all the other advantages an iPad has over an iPod touch, that's what I'll buy. Why would I waste that money on a Macbook when it won't be half as useful? You'd have to be an idiot to spend $999 on a Macbook when you could get an iPad with 3G and a BT keyboard and a nice case for $30 less.
But a low end Mackbook is still far more powerful then a high end iPad. Also what do you feel an iPad would excel at that a Macbook couldn't do far better?
The iPad does some things better than any notebook.
What those things are, I have no idea.
Oh, and Apple is Doomed?
Yup, I was thinking the same thing!
The iPad does some things better than any notebook.
What those things are, I have no idea.
And, you're claiming this based on........ what exactly?
I don't believe the point is that Apple is doomed the fact is no matter what Apple ends up getting a sale. Some of the points the other member made were valid as I feel mine were.
Remember the average consumer is not an enthusiast which is what you find on these forum, any forum like this for that matter. Most users don't have a need for a Macbook, iPad and Touch. That is why the iPad fills a very narrow gap and is why Tablets have never been very popular.
Its like me going to my gaming forum and while we all talk about the lastest GPU thinking everyone else is going to run to the store and get a 400.00 gaming video card. While everyone on the forum may be getting one doesn't mean the rest of the population is going too.
The demographic on a forum is never even close to what going on in the general public.
I agree with most of what you say here - everything in fact EXCEPT the size of the gap you state... that is the crux of the entire iPad debate... what is the size of the "gap" in the market?
Apple predicts it as being huge, you don't. They have done research, you haven't. There are stats showing that 13% of a random sample are going to buy one at/near launch... that is huge for a new product with no real precursor...
I'm not piling on and your argument about the gaming forum is dead on... we just have to wait and see how big that market is. My basic and unscientific evidence is that I have probably got 30 people to switch to Mac over the last decade, and I still have to tech support almost every one of them at some time or other (and Mac is easy). Their use of their iMacs and Macbooks is largely rudimentary. For most of them, the Macbook is also a desktop since it is to awkward to move it and use it elsewhere (older people and families where the kids would wreck it if you left it off the desk). An iPad would be perfect for them and almost all of them have the disposable income to afford at least the basic one on a whim. They won't need 64GB, 3G access etc... All I'll need to do is bring mine over and I predict sales. I truly believe that it will liberate casual users from the office/desk - that to me is a huge market in itself, ignoring the huge educational and vertical uses. It will do to general computing what Wii did to console gaming - find a new and larger (and more profitable) market. Remember the Wii was basic hardware, far lower capability but crushed the PS3 and XBox 360 with higher margins (basically still a gamecube inside). The experience is what ruled and so it will for the iPad (IMHO).
My friend's wife has recently experienced the same thing with a little pink Toshiba netbook - can't get her off the thing now it is in her lap, but there isn't a thing she does on it that wouldn't be more fun/better on an iPad.
I don't know what are you arguing about!
He's "extremely" argumentative, not just an extreme skater.
It would also be cool if at&t allowed for existing iphone customers to cancel they're data plan on iphone maybe lock it if they get a data plan for the ipad or any type of solution for customers who will have both products