To paraphrase another NY Times article (would have linked to it, but couldn't find it again), there will always be unhappiness and resentment in the world, much of it directed against the US. The variable is whether the US commands respect or contempt.
Sometimes it's better to be feared than loved. Especially if it makes someone think twice about attacking the US in a cowardly act of terrorism.
[quote]Well who said it was true? It may be backward and corrupt from your and his viewpoint. But sorry to break it to ya but your viewpoint dosnt represent the world's.
Its racist becuase your making a gross and demeaning generalization of a group of people and their society<hr></blockquote>
I think you guys are better off realizing loads of people (not only muslims) don't like the USA, because of your acts, ideas and attitude, but they don't hate you
once you start thinking like this, you're next step can be trying to think how to change that
'Not liking' and 'hating' are not distant cousins. If someone doesn't like me then how do I know they don't hate me too? "Oh they don't like you, but they don't hate you either. " Hate's just a word. And WE have to change? To fit who's idea on what American's should be like? Like Europeans? Like Asians? Like the ****ing middle easteners?? No way no thanks. Americans should be like Americans. Unique and individuals that make their own mind up. I don't think we have to change.. at least not much. Nor do I think Europeans have to change. Nor Australians. Nor Russians. etc. But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed.
What do guys do when a woman tries to change them? They either bend over like pussies or they tell their chick to take a hike! Take a hike!
'Not liking' and 'hating' are not distant cousins. ...Hate's just a word. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe its just my interpretation but "hate" is pro-active while "not liking" isn´t. Like in as long as I don´t do something to a "not liking me" person I´m safe while "Hate" means lock your doors at night.
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Nor do I think Europeans have to change. Nor Australians. Nor Russians. etc. But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Any time you hear the word "good" always ask yourself "for whom?"
Well who said it was true? It may be backward and corrupt from your and his viewpoint. But sorry to break it to ya but your viewpoint dosnt represent the world's.
Its racist becuase your making a gross and demeaning generalization of a group of people and their society.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In what fantasy world is a country like Saudia Arabia not backwards and corrupt? Oh and it's not based on their race but rather their backwards and corrupt ways. Ergo not racist but factual.
[quote]Like the ****ing middle easteners??<hr></blockquote>
...
Do you realise the scope of your wording? Do you realise you just insulted an entire sub-continent? I think you, Outside, deserve to be hated, as an (extremely pathetic) individual. You should have been banned a while ago too.
[quote]Good for people living and working in tall buildings. Good for people riding airplanes.<hr></blockquote>
Well then, I think Americans should change for the good of the Vietnamese girls that got raped, for the good of African Americans that get towed 10 miles behind PickUp trucks, for the good of their own children that get brutally shot at School etc.
How irrational can you get? How old are you? You're such a simple-minded person it disgusts me to talk to you. Extremists have no religion, no nation, they are just that, extermists. The animals that flew Boeings in the WTC are not representative of the Arab World. The savages that murdered Pearl are not representative of Pakistan.
But that is probably much too complicated for your simple, silly, fascist mind.
[quote]No I'm not. If anything I'm "scared" for the arab/muslim world.<hr></blockquote>
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. You completely fail to recognize the absudity in generalizing the acts of a few crazy men to that of an entire sub-continent. You fail to understand what you do not know, and sprout false assertions to reassure yourself in your illusion that you can do no wrong and that it is the other side that has a problem. It is fear to me.
This is the essence of Xenophobia.
You, ScottH, are perhaps the lowest individual I've had the chance to meet.
So I guess you never put the word "****ing" in front of something to make it stand out. Like, "I want a ****ing Coke damn it!" "Where did I put those ****ing keys?!" Man oh man, I hate that coke and those keys. I put the word '****ing' infront of it! I must hate women too cause I sure like ****ing them! You guys are freaking dorks (is freaking an ok word to use?) if you're going to pick apart the wording of every comment on the board. You're so biased it hurts your head when someone trys and defends themselves against your accusations and biased viewpoints. Maybe you're not used to living in a society that views freedom of speech as sacred. I still hold out hope for the french, though because at least people like powerdoc characterizes the good in french people while you show us the darker side.
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. You completely fail to recognize the absudity in generalizing the acts of a few crazy men to that of an entire sub-continent. You fail to understand what you do not know, and sprout false assertions to reassure yourself in your illusion that you can do no wrong and that it is the other side that has a problem. It is fear to me.
This is the essence of Xenophobia.
You, ScottH, are perhaps the lowest individual I've had the chance to meet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh please. You're over the top with this one. I haven't failed to understand anything at all.
Sometimes it's better to be feared than loved. Especially if it makes someone think twice about attacking the US in a cowardly act of terrorism.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A tyrant will agree that it's better to be feared than to be loved.
Do you think that fear can prevent terrorist who commit suicide to act ?
In order to combat violence there is always two ingredients : strenght and force to be respected, and dialog for a more better understanding. This is the too faces of the piece.
When you write that these childrens are stupid zealots or their culture is bacward and corrupt do you think it's good for the dialog. Do you think if some muslins read some topics here, that it will make them love the USA.
I say this article was interesting, because most of the hate come from an ignorance of the US way of living and culture, but there is good point in the muslim world that we lack in our democraty too.
Better comprehension means that we should better understand the people of this countrie, and try to explain us in a better way our own culture.
Israel is one hundred or one thousand more powerlfull military than Palestine, but they don't stop the violence anyway. Power is not sufficient for the peace, you need something else : dialog (but dialog imply that both opponement listen to the other).
<strong>Do you realise the scope of your wording? Do you realise you just insulted an entire sub-continent? I think you, Outside, deserve to be hated, as an (extremely pathetic) individual. You should have been banned a while ago too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who died and made you God? Get down off that high horse before you hurt yourself.
[quote]<strong>Well then, I think Americans should change for the good of the Vietnamese girls that got raped, for the good of African Americans that get towed 10 miles behind PickUp trucks, for the good of their own children that get brutally shot at School etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I realize you are trying to make a point here, but let's not be rediculous. And besides, America is changing on these things. How many years ago was it that dragging a "nigger" (quoted to make a point) behind a truck was not considered a criminal act? What vietnamese girls are we speaking of? And as far as school children being shot in school, back off. Before you go too far in your rant.
[quote]<strong>How irrational can you get? How old are you? You're such a simple-minded person it disgusts me to talk to you. Extremists have no religion, no nation, they are just that, extermists. The animals that flew Boeings in the WTC are not representative of the Arab World. The savages that murdered Pearl are not representative of Pakistan. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The people that flew the planes into the WTC are still being backed up by the various governments of the middle east. Not all of them, but it is not hard to see what way the wind is blowing by who was willing to support us in the beginning versus where they stood at the middle and the end. There are still those who say that we deserved it who are in power. They represent their nation whether you like it or not. For example, many of you got all bent out of shape about President Bush and his "Axis of Evil" statement. Does all of America feel that way. No, but it sure suited you fine to paste it across the entire nation because why? Our LEADER said it.
[quote]<strong>But that is probably much too complicated for your simple, silly, fascist mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And now the name calling. Look in a mirror. Do you feel better now? I doubt it. Did you make a worthwhile point? No.
[quote]I still hold out hope for the french, though because at least people like powerdoc characterizes the good in french people while you show us the darker side.<hr></blockquote>
cute.
very. very representative of your silly little mind that sees one french person and postulates all french persons are like that. What would you say if I said all Americans are arrogant and fat?
Stop back-pedaling, if it were only for the ****ing I wouldn't have said anything, I was denouncing the connotation of your entire post, and it wasn't innocent. Like when you said:
[quote]But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]You're so biased it hurts your head when someone trys and defends themselves against your accusations and biased viewpoints.<hr></blockquote>
I'm the biased one? ROTFLMFAO.
And no ScottH, I'm not over my head, this article attacks entire nations when it only has valid points regarding isolated individuals, and you herald it as some kind of essential truth.
You refuse to understand the other side, simply dismissing it as backward and corrupt savages. This will only breed further hatred.
This thread is so self-indulgent it's sickening. The criticism of foreign governments should result in a little introspective and self-reevaluation, not systematic dismissal because it is the thoughts of "Toads" or "Backwards" or whatever. Coming to hasty conclusions like this article is exactly the way not to go.
<strong>In order to combat violence there is always two ingredients : strenght and force to be respected, and dialog for a more better understanding. This is the too faces of the piece. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps, but strength and force to be respected must come first, IMO. You can't have a successful dialog with someone you don't respect.
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
Sometimes it's better to be feared than loved. Especially if it makes someone think twice about attacking the US in a cowardly act of terrorism.
Its racist becuase your making a gross and demeaning generalization of a group of people and their society<hr></blockquote>
Well said.
But generalizing and saying this applies to the entire Muslim world is completely absurd. <hr></blockquote>
that's not only absurd, that's stupid
[quote]I was not aware the boards were populated by members who had such opinions. <hr></blockquote>
the majority here is from the USA.
I hope this doesn't reflect their society.
once you start thinking like this, you're next step can be trying to think how to change that
'Not liking' and 'hating' are not distant cousins. If someone doesn't like me then how do I know they don't hate me too? "Oh they don't like you, but they don't hate you either. " Hate's just a word. And WE have to change? To fit who's idea on what American's should be like? Like Europeans? Like Asians? Like the ****ing middle easteners?? No way no thanks. Americans should be like Americans. Unique and individuals that make their own mind up. I don't think we have to change.. at least not much. Nor do I think Europeans have to change. Nor Australians. Nor Russians. etc. But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed.
What do guys do when a woman tries to change them? They either bend over like pussies or they tell their chick to take a hike! Take a hike!
I never said people should change, I tried to say that you can try to change people from disliking you
and I think you should change your attitude... ****ing middle easterners????? WTF is wrong with you??
[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: sapi ]</p>
<strong>
'Not liking' and 'hating' are not distant cousins. ...Hate's just a word. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe its just my interpretation but "hate" is pro-active while "not liking" isn´t. Like in as long as I don´t do something to a "not liking me" person I´m safe while "Hate" means lock your doors at night.
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Nor do I think Europeans have to change. Nor Australians. Nor Russians. etc. But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Any time you hear the word "good" always ask yourself "for whom?"
[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
<strong>
Well who said it was true? It may be backward and corrupt from your and his viewpoint. But sorry to break it to ya but your viewpoint dosnt represent the world's.
Its racist becuase your making a gross and demeaning generalization of a group of people and their society.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In what fantasy world is a country like Saudia Arabia not backwards and corrupt? Oh and it's not based on their race but rather their backwards and corrupt ways. Ergo not racist but factual.
[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
<strong>do you know why the USA is so scared these days??
because they THINK the muslims all hate the USA..
and you guys only hear what you want to hear..
and Scott is one of them, he is really scared.. he's shitting his pants..</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL
No I'm not. If anything I'm "scared" for the arab/muslim world.
Any time you hear the word "good" always ask yourself "for whom?"
Good for people living and working in tall buildings. Good for people riding airplanes. Good for starving children.
poor you
...
Do you realise the scope of your wording? Do you realise you just insulted an entire sub-continent? I think you, Outside, deserve to be hated, as an (extremely pathetic) individual. You should have been banned a while ago too.
[quote]Good for people living and working in tall buildings. Good for people riding airplanes.<hr></blockquote>
Well then, I think Americans should change for the good of the Vietnamese girls that got raped, for the good of African Americans that get towed 10 miles behind PickUp trucks, for the good of their own children that get brutally shot at School etc.
How irrational can you get? How old are you? You're such a simple-minded person it disgusts me to talk to you. Extremists have no religion, no nation, they are just that, extermists. The animals that flew Boeings in the WTC are not representative of the Arab World. The savages that murdered Pearl are not representative of Pakistan.
But that is probably much too complicated for your simple, silly, fascist mind.
[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: SYN ]</p>
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. You completely fail to recognize the absudity in generalizing the acts of a few crazy men to that of an entire sub-continent. You fail to understand what you do not know, and sprout false assertions to reassure yourself in your illusion that you can do no wrong and that it is the other side that has a problem. It is fear to me.
This is the essence of Xenophobia.
You, ScottH, are perhaps the lowest individual I've had the chance to meet.
<strong>
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. You completely fail to recognize the absudity in generalizing the acts of a few crazy men to that of an entire sub-continent. You fail to understand what you do not know, and sprout false assertions to reassure yourself in your illusion that you can do no wrong and that it is the other side that has a problem. It is fear to me.
This is the essence of Xenophobia.
You, ScottH, are perhaps the lowest individual I've had the chance to meet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh please. You're over the top with this one. I haven't failed to understand anything at all.
<strong>
Sometimes it's better to be feared than loved. Especially if it makes someone think twice about attacking the US in a cowardly act of terrorism.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A tyrant will agree that it's better to be feared than to be loved.
Do you think that fear can prevent terrorist who commit suicide to act ?
In order to combat violence there is always two ingredients : strenght and force to be respected, and dialog for a more better understanding. This is the too faces of the piece.
When you write that these childrens are stupid zealots or their culture is bacward and corrupt do you think it's good for the dialog. Do you think if some muslins read some topics here, that it will make them love the USA.
I say this article was interesting, because most of the hate come from an ignorance of the US way of living and culture, but there is good point in the muslim world that we lack in our democraty too.
Better comprehension means that we should better understand the people of this countrie, and try to explain us in a better way our own culture.
Israel is one hundred or one thousand more powerlfull military than Palestine, but they don't stop the violence anyway. Power is not sufficient for the peace, you need something else : dialog (but dialog imply that both opponement listen to the other).
If only we had dialog. That hasn't been tried before.
<strong>Do you realise the scope of your wording? Do you realise you just insulted an entire sub-continent? I think you, Outside, deserve to be hated, as an (extremely pathetic) individual. You should have been banned a while ago too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who died and made you God? Get down off that high horse before you hurt yourself.
[quote]<strong>Well then, I think Americans should change for the good of the Vietnamese girls that got raped, for the good of African Americans that get towed 10 miles behind PickUp trucks, for the good of their own children that get brutally shot at School etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I realize you are trying to make a point here, but let's not be rediculous. And besides, America is changing on these things. How many years ago was it that dragging a "nigger" (quoted to make a point) behind a truck was not considered a criminal act? What vietnamese girls are we speaking of? And as far as school children being shot in school, back off. Before you go too far in your rant.
[quote]<strong>How irrational can you get? How old are you? You're such a simple-minded person it disgusts me to talk to you. Extremists have no religion, no nation, they are just that, extermists. The animals that flew Boeings in the WTC are not representative of the Arab World. The savages that murdered Pearl are not representative of Pakistan. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The people that flew the planes into the WTC are still being backed up by the various governments of the middle east. Not all of them, but it is not hard to see what way the wind is blowing by who was willing to support us in the beginning versus where they stood at the middle and the end. There are still those who say that we deserved it who are in power. They represent their nation whether you like it or not. For example, many of you got all bent out of shape about President Bush and his "Axis of Evil" statement. Does all of America feel that way. No, but it sure suited you fine to paste it across the entire nation because why? Our LEADER said it.
[quote]<strong>But that is probably much too complicated for your simple, silly, fascist mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And now the name calling. Look in a mirror. Do you feel better now? I doubt it. Did you make a worthwhile point? No.
cute.
very. very representative of your silly little mind that sees one french person and postulates all french persons are like that. What would you say if I said all Americans are arrogant and fat?
Stop back-pedaling, if it were only for the ****ing I wouldn't have said anything, I was denouncing the connotation of your entire post, and it wasn't innocent. Like when you said:
[quote]But I think it would do A LOT of good if the Saudis and Pakistanis and Iraqis changed. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]You're so biased it hurts your head when someone trys and defends themselves against your accusations and biased viewpoints.<hr></blockquote>
I'm the biased one? ROTFLMFAO.
And no ScottH, I'm not over my head, this article attacks entire nations when it only has valid points regarding isolated individuals, and you herald it as some kind of essential truth.
You refuse to understand the other side, simply dismissing it as backward and corrupt savages. This will only breed further hatred.
This thread is so self-indulgent it's sickening. The criticism of foreign governments should result in a little introspective and self-reevaluation, not systematic dismissal because it is the thoughts of "Toads" or "Backwards" or whatever. Coming to hasty conclusions like this article is exactly the way not to go.
<strong>In order to combat violence there is always two ingredients : strenght and force to be respected, and dialog for a more better understanding. This is the too faces of the piece. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps, but strength and force to be respected must come first, IMO. You can't have a successful dialog with someone you don't respect.
<strong>
You do however have a problem understanding the fact that Islam has nothing to do whatsoever with flying Boeings in the WTC. </strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/events/EA990/docket/Ex_12A.pdf"; target="_blank">http://www.ntsb.gov/events/EA990/docket/Ex_12A.pdf</A>;
Egypt Air 990. Suicide is against everything Islam stands for too.