Now this I don´t understand. Why on earth are US even giving aid to Israel? Its not a third world country. It would be like giving aid to Italy. In my experience the cars on the street in Tel Aviv are newer than here in Copenhagen. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
this is an article in French, stating that Saudi crown prince Abdallah ben Abdel Aziz has proposed normalisation of all Israelo-Arab relations in exchange for removal of Israëli occupation.
It just goes on to show anti-semitism and hatred is far from being a constant of the muslim world.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey ummm? Come 'er. See that bridge over there? It's brought me nothing but missery my whole life. If only I could find someone to buy it from me
<strong>Now this I don´t understand. Why on earth are US even giving aid to Israel?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, maybe it's because they're surrounded by countries 50 times their size who have for the past 50 years called for Israel's complete destruction?
There have been a few wars - I wonder what would have happened if Israel had lost?
<strong>Well, maybe it's because they're surrounded by countries 50 times their size who have for the past 50 years called for Israel's complete destruction?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Assuming their need for security is higher than their need for high standart of living: You are not paying for their defense. You are paying for standard of living (as in: If they didn´t get the aid from you they would have to use the money they spent on Mercedes, McDonalds et al. on their military.)
[dorkyeuroliberal]That's racist. You are racist. Not everyone is the same. How can you condemn an entire culture for the actions of a single person not related or helped by anyone? These are all isolated. Oh and the jews asked for it anyway.[/dorkyeuroliberal]
The fact of the matter is that right now Muslim countries are the enemies of the civilized world. They made it that way with their sponsorship of terrorism, schools that teach children to hate, schools and parents that teach children that they will be martyrs if they kill innocent people who aren't muslim, and by the absolute invisibility of any moderate muslim leaders who decry without equivocation the taking of an innocent life on purpose. THEY are the ones that need to change, NOT us.............................................
<strong>The fact of the matter is that right now Muslim countries are the enemies of the civilized world. They made it that way with their sponsorship of terrorism, schools that teach children to hate, schools and parents that teach children that they will be martyrs if they kill innocent people who aren't muslim, and by the absolute invisibility of any moderate muslim leaders who decry without equivocation the taking of an innocent life on purpose. THEY are the ones that need to change, NOT us.............................................</strong><hr></blockquote>
[dorkyeuroliberal]That's racist. You are racist. Not everyone is the same. How can you condemn an entire culture for the actions of a single person not related or helped by anyone? These are all isolated. Oh and the jews asked for it anyway.[/dorkyeuroliberal]
<strong>You are not paying for their defense. You are paying for standard of living</strong><hr></blockquote>I think that's true today. And I agree that we give too much to Israel - their economy is actually pretty large for its size. Ane everyone else thinks so, too. In the late 90s, israel and the US made an agreement to phase out all economic aid, and reduce military aid.
But it does show that CERTAIN muslim countries (Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan) have a higher opinion of the US than others (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Turkey is by far the most westernized Muslim country in the world. Istanbul, Turkey, is geographically and also is considered Europe. Istanbul in my opinion, actually has more of a european feel that many other european countries.
<strong>The fact of the matter is that right now Muslim countries are the enemies of the civilized world. They made it that way with their sponsorship of terrorism, schools that teach children to hate, schools and parents that teach children that they will be martyrs if they kill innocent people who aren't muslim, and by the absolute invisibility of any moderate muslim leaders who decry without equivocation the taking of an innocent life on purpose. THEY are the ones that need to change, NOT us.............................................</strong><hr></blockquote>
didn't hitler pull this hate stunt too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
wow, now Steve666=Hitler?
There is a mjor reality check needed here.
Oh, and to everyone who was called rediculous by Syn, I Aplogize for bringing the word into the conversation, he obviously was stung by it and thought he should use it on others a bit.
Then why did you even post? My point was to demonstrate what was being said was absurd. Therefore, I made absurd assertions, so that perhaps it would be clear to you. What part of it did you not understand?
Stop being ridiculous, I specifically chose those examples to demonstrate that grossly generalizing was absurd. You fail to understand that, clearly.<hr></blockquote>
I posted because your rediculous post went way over the line and off the page, and landed in a parked car across the street where it poked the drivers eye out. And I beleive I understood that and made it clear by saying "I realize you are trying to make a point".
[quote]They are? IIRC, all Middle-Eastern governments denounced it as acts of barbary, the Saudis, Iranian, Syrians offered their help. Pakistan offered very precious intelligence, man-power and air-space. The only government that supported it was that of Saddam Hussein, and I don't think he's representative of anything.<hr></blockquote>
No, the Muslim nations waited until they were sure that the war was going our way before they tried to help us in any open fashin. And even then all you heard was, That leader will never survive if he helps the US. He ill be thrown from power the next day. Of course once victory was pretty certain some were falling all over themsleves to show how they "helped" us.
[quote]Please point me to where it was pasted across the American nation? I'm specifically denouncing the fact that one shouldn't generalize the action of individuals to that of an entire population, in case you hadn't understood.<hr></blockquote>
One more you are pertending like I caould not possibly understand what you had written? am I just stupid here or what? Please SYN, teach me...
[quote]I didn't hear you saying this to ScottH when he proudly proclaimed "Because their culture is backward and corrupt."
Perhaps you should stop that ever so convenient Manichean black and white view of good vs evil.<hr></blockquote>
You are right, I did not say it to ScottH Because it did not apply. Sorry. He was making a vauge statement that is somewhat backed by facts that he presented and then he did not go on to say how they should be punished for their actions and pronounce that he was to be solely responsible as judge jury and executioner. you however did in your own limited way.
Perhaps you should not worry about my "ever so convenient view" of good and evil. Good is good, and evil is evil. Sorry, don't like it? tough.
it's even worse, a lot of people here on AI think this way...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since when does criticism = hate? No one in this thread has told me that the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia isn't backwards. There's no way that you can say that the government of Iran is not corrupt? When doing research on something about Palestine I hit on loads of pages on the "Honor Killings" there. Women killed by their families because they somehow "dishonored' them. Would you call that forward thinking or backward thinking?
[idioticliberal]Oh you can't say anything about them because they are brown and you are white. Racist.[/idioticliberal]
Meanwhile the most hateful anti-semetic false crap spews out of these countries every day. All without a peep from the forward thinking do gooder liberals of the West.
Actually, Scott, me and my wife were just talking about it last night how great it would be to live in Saudi Arabia. She could put on a bourqua and let herself go underneath and no one would be the wiser. And she hates talking in public anyway so that would be a relief. She's a sado-masocist like that, so she would enjoy being humiliated and beaten by me and other men. Now that I think more about it, sounds kinda kinky.... I have to go. Need to call my travel agent.
Jews didn't go around killing Germans. Jews didn't school their children in the art of suicide bombing. Jews didn't want everyone who wasn't like them to die.
The Muslim world, with the exception of Turkey, foments terrorism, encourages it, and watches with glee when innocents die. THEY are the Hitlers. Its not my fault that you're too stupid to see that........
<strong>Now this I don´t understand. Why on earth are US even giving aid to Israel? Its not a third world country. It would be like giving aid to Italy. In my experience the cars on the street in Tel Aviv are newer than here in Copenhagen. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You might be surprised where our money goes as aid, payments or through organizations.
...and how much. Frankly, I think a world without the USA's money would collapse in almost no time. Let's face it, we support much of the world's economy either directly through our government, indirectly through public organizations or through our corporations' investments. We can handle it, like we can handle our role of being the world's Great Scapegoat?. There are plenty of things our government and corporations can be blamed for, but it's clear to me through umpteen of these threads that certain people will always blame the US for all our, their, your problems. But we can handle the burden, certainly better than anyone else. We'll just smile and dole out the cash...
Why do they hate us? Because they hate themselves. The poll Gallup just did of the Islamic world found that 61% of respondants thought that Arabs weren't responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. Okay, no suprise there. But the Gallup chief said on MSNBC that when they asked the follow-up "why do you think not?" the answers they got we along the lines of "Arabs aren't capable of such a dramatic and successful attack".
Arabs, in their own minds, are incapable of the organization, the secrecy, the imagination, the audacity, and the success. I find that absolutely fascinating. Of course they hate us. They hate themselves. They probably hate how their economies and cultures have stagnated and been hijacked into the desert by fundamentalists. Nothing we can do will make them stop hating us, because we can't stop them from hating themselves.
Comments
<strong><a href="http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3218--264478-,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3218--264478-,00.html</a>;
this is an article in French, stating that Saudi crown prince Abdallah ben Abdel Aziz has proposed normalisation of all Israelo-Arab relations in exchange for removal of Israëli occupation.
It just goes on to show anti-semitism and hatred is far from being a constant of the muslim world.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey ummm? Come 'er. See that bridge over there? It's brought me nothing but missery my whole life. If only I could find someone to buy it from me
<strong>Now this I don´t understand. Why on earth are US even giving aid to Israel?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, maybe it's because they're surrounded by countries 50 times their size who have for the past 50 years called for Israel's complete destruction?
There have been a few wars - I wonder what would have happened if Israel had lost?
<strong>Well, maybe it's because they're surrounded by countries 50 times their size who have for the past 50 years called for Israel's complete destruction?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Assuming their need for security is higher than their need for high standart of living: You are not paying for their defense. You are paying for standard of living (as in: If they didn´t get the aid from you they would have to use the money they spent on Mercedes, McDonalds et al. on their military.)
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/index.html</a>;
But it does show that CERTAIN muslim countries (Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan) have a higher opinion of the US than others (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran).
<strong>The fact of the matter is that right now Muslim countries are the enemies of the civilized world. They made it that way with their sponsorship of terrorism, schools that teach children to hate, schools and parents that teach children that they will be martyrs if they kill innocent people who aren't muslim, and by the absolute invisibility of any moderate muslim leaders who decry without equivocation the taking of an innocent life on purpose. THEY are the ones that need to change, NOT us.............................................</strong><hr></blockquote>
[dorkyeuroliberal]That's racist. You are racist. Not everyone is the same. How can you condemn an entire culture for the actions of a single person not related or helped by anyone? These are all isolated. Oh and the jews asked for it anyway.[/dorkyeuroliberal]
<strong>You are not paying for their defense. You are paying for standard of living</strong><hr></blockquote>I think that's true today. And I agree that we give too much to Israel - their economy is actually pretty large for its size. Ane everyone else thinks so, too. In the late 90s, israel and the US made an agreement to phase out all economic aid, and reduce military aid.
<strong>Here's some sad statistics.
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/index.html</a>;
But it does show that CERTAIN muslim countries (Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan) have a higher opinion of the US than others (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Turkey is by far the most westernized Muslim country in the world. Istanbul, Turkey, is geographically and also is considered Europe. Istanbul in my opinion, actually has more of a european feel that many other european countries.
<strong>The fact of the matter is that right now Muslim countries are the enemies of the civilized world. They made it that way with their sponsorship of terrorism, schools that teach children to hate, schools and parents that teach children that they will be martyrs if they kill innocent people who aren't muslim, and by the absolute invisibility of any moderate muslim leaders who decry without equivocation the taking of an innocent life on purpose. THEY are the ones that need to change, NOT us.............................................</strong><hr></blockquote>
holy shit is this for real?
didn't hitler pull this hate stunt too?
<strong>
holy shit is this for real?
didn't hitler pull this hate stunt too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
wow, now Steve666=Hitler?
There is a mjor reality check needed here.
Oh, and to everyone who was called rediculous by Syn, I Aplogize for bringing the word into the conversation, he obviously was stung by it and thought he should use it on others a bit.
Then why did you even post? My point was to demonstrate what was being said was absurd. Therefore, I made absurd assertions, so that perhaps it would be clear to you. What part of it did you not understand?
Stop being ridiculous, I specifically chose those examples to demonstrate that grossly generalizing was absurd. You fail to understand that, clearly.<hr></blockquote>
I posted because your rediculous post went way over the line and off the page, and landed in a parked car across the street where it poked the drivers eye out. And I beleive I understood that and made it clear by saying "I realize you are trying to make a point".
[quote]They are? IIRC, all Middle-Eastern governments denounced it as acts of barbary, the Saudis, Iranian, Syrians offered their help. Pakistan offered very precious intelligence, man-power and air-space. The only government that supported it was that of Saddam Hussein, and I don't think he's representative of anything.<hr></blockquote>
No, the Muslim nations waited until they were sure that the war was going our way before they tried to help us in any open fashin. And even then all you heard was, That leader will never survive if he helps the US. He ill be thrown from power the next day. Of course once victory was pretty certain some were falling all over themsleves to show how they "helped" us.
[quote]Please point me to where it was pasted across the American nation? I'm specifically denouncing the fact that one shouldn't generalize the action of individuals to that of an entire population, in case you hadn't understood.<hr></blockquote>
One more you are pertending like I caould not possibly understand what you had written? am I just stupid here or what? Please SYN, teach me...
[quote]I didn't hear you saying this to ScottH when he proudly proclaimed "Because their culture is backward and corrupt."
Perhaps you should stop that ever so convenient Manichean black and white view of good vs evil.<hr></blockquote>
You are right, I did not say it to ScottH Because it did not apply. Sorry. He was making a vauge statement that is somewhat backed by facts that he presented and then he did not go on to say how they should be punished for their actions and pronounce that he was to be solely responsible as judge jury and executioner. you however did in your own limited way.
Perhaps you should not worry about my "ever so convenient view" of good and evil. Good is good, and evil is evil. Sorry, don't like it? tough.
didn't hitler pull this hate stunt too?<hr></blockquote>
sad isn't it
it's even worse, a lot of people here on AI think this way...
[ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: sapi ]</p>
<strong>
sad isn't it
it's even worse, a lot of people here on AI think this way...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since when does criticism = hate? No one in this thread has told me that the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia isn't backwards. There's no way that you can say that the government of Iran is not corrupt? When doing research on something about Palestine I hit on loads of pages on the "Honor Killings" there. Women killed by their families because they somehow "dishonored' them. Would you call that forward thinking or backward thinking?
[idioticliberal]Oh you can't say anything about them because they are brown and you are white. Racist.[/idioticliberal]
Meanwhile the most hateful anti-semetic false crap spews out of these countries every day. All without a peep from the forward thinking do gooder liberals of the West.
[ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
30 people dead so far, expected to rise. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
didn't hitler pull this hate stunt too? <
Jews didn't go around killing Germans. Jews didn't school their children in the art of suicide bombing. Jews didn't want everyone who wasn't like them to die.
The Muslim world, with the exception of Turkey, foments terrorism, encourages it, and watches with glee when innocents die. THEY are the Hitlers. Its not my fault that you're too stupid to see that........
<strong>Now this I don´t understand. Why on earth are US even giving aid to Israel? Its not a third world country. It would be like giving aid to Italy. In my experience the cars on the street in Tel Aviv are newer than here in Copenhagen.
You might be surprised where our money goes as aid, payments or through organizations.
...and how much. Frankly, I think a world without the USA's money would collapse in almost no time. Let's face it, we support much of the world's economy either directly through our government, indirectly through public organizations or through our corporations' investments. We can handle it, like we can handle our role of being the world's Great Scapegoat?. There are plenty of things our government and corporations can be blamed for, but it's clear to me through umpteen of these threads that certain people will always blame the US for all our, their, your problems. But we can handle the burden, certainly better than anyone else. We'll just smile and dole out the cash...
Arabs, in their own minds, are incapable of the organization, the secrecy, the imagination, the audacity, and the success. I find that absolutely fascinating. Of course they hate us. They hate themselves. They probably hate how their economies and cultures have stagnated and been hijacked into the desert by fundamentalists. Nothing we can do will make them stop hating us, because we can't stop them from hating themselves.