With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.
And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.
In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.
MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.
Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.
Oh Yea! None of their touch screen phones are iPhone knock-offs. HTC didn't copy a thing from Apple. Every feature in those phones, including the Nexus One, is entirely original. They didn't even look at the iPhone when coming up with their innovative designs.
What else could they say? They're already shipping product. If they admit they've been stealing Apple's Intellectual Property they may as well shut down production.
They're completely innocent of all charges just like OJ Simpson was.
1) Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones.
2) Apple wont sue MSFT because they can countersue on pretty much any basis.
3) Apple wont sue Palm, because they have deep patent portfolios and because they have actually created a unique interface in the Pre.
4) Apple does want to sue Google, because the Android is a complete ripoff (go look at leaded images of Android right before the iPhone was released. Multitouch wasn't even part of the design at the time). However, suing HTC is how Apple is getting at Google.
HTC is a good target for them because they have a weak patent portfolio. Also, Apple is not, and should not be, worried about Google's patent portfolio. The reason is that in the few markets that Google/Apple do overlap, Apple has always been there first. The only exception to this is probably whatever Apple might do in ads, but we haven't reached there yet.
"Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field."
With all due respect, do you understand how the market works? No business on Earth is content to have at most 50% of any market, much less invent then ignore such niceties as patents, infringment law, etc. While I understand the sense of what you wrote, the naïveté about how business pursue their plans is striking.
This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.
So how do you feel about Nokia's suit against Apple?
Many here, and nearly every anti-Apple pundit, heck even this site and many supposedly pro-Apple sites and pundits, deride Apple for this suit agains HTC, yet there's no such derision for Nokia and its suit against Apple.
In my mind there's no difference, that there is hypocritical ... plain and simple hypocrisy. It's a double standard filled with hatred of all things Apple or that could be beneficial to Apple.
With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.
And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
Or maybe Apple thinks that HTC is more obviously in violation of their patents?
Keep in mind that Apple is not suing over multitouch but over the patents which involve specific implementations. Whether Microsoft and Palm use multitouch is completely irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch
This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.
Apple's not being public about it at all. The media is (as usual) trying to stir up a feeding frenzy. I'm not sure Apple even released a press release, but if they did, it was a single announcement and that's it. How is Apple 'being so public'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven
Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products.
Nokia's claims are worthless. Nokia is part of a consortium where the members agree to license their patents under fair and equal terms yet Nokia refused to license to Apple under the same terms that everyone else got. Instead, they are demanding not only exorbitant license fees, but also access to Apple's patents. The only remaining question is how badly Nokia will lose. If they lose on the patent issue, the cost is modest (they simply have to license their technology to Apple under the same terms everyone else gets). If, OTOH, they lose the antitrust case, they're in a world of hurt.
As for HTC, you really need to read the patents. Apple didn't patent a 'gesture based smartphone'. They patented specific components of the software interface - and claim that HTC has violated them. If Apple is violating any HTC patents, then HTC can countersue Apple over those patents, but that does not get them off the hook for alleged violations of Apple's patents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznZOFIA111
Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.
In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.
MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.
Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.
Apple presumably hasn't sued Google because Google is not selling a product which infringes Apple's patents. If Apple wins against HTC, then they can go after Google as a contributory infringer, but going after Google before winning the HTC case would be premature.
It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. -really? Bullying? Let's just disregard that tired old Apple is looking more like Microsoft meme as just that. As for HTC, let's look at their 2004 Net income report: Total revenues of fiscal year 2004 are estimated to be NT$27,896 million with a 28.00% of YoY growth rate since wireless products are about to take off. Net income will be NT$2,018 million and earnings per share before tax based on forecasted weighted average capital will reach NT$7.84.
As for the financial results of the first quarter of 2004, total revenues reached NT$ 6,886 million and income after tax totaled NT$711 million with 46% and 47% YoY growth respectively. Earnings per share were NT$3.27.
Yeah. They're just some little cellphone Mom and Pop joint. Nice call there.
--------------
Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products. - Geez - did you even look into the claims by Apple regarding Nokia? It's been rehashed here on a number of threads. Nokia's patents are part of the GSM standard and are subject to special restrictions and controls - they ignored that and demanded more money from Apple (Apple's claim), so no. Apple will either be found to be under those controls and Nokia found to be attempting extortion, or Apple will be found in violation and required to pay. End of story. As for HTC's claims - they will be either proven or disproven in court - the statement was for public and shareholder consumption. The suits allow for each company's legal team to do discovery among the records of the other to determine the viability of the claims. The lawyer handling this for Apple is a world-reknowned patent litigator, and having reviewed the claims - probably figures he has a case for Apple on this.
---------------------------------
A good deal of the patents Apple is claiming were violated have to do with software. HTC modified the software provided to them from Google. In the end, it's still a round-about attack on Android by going after the little brother when the big brother's back is turned. - see my comment above - except that the "little" brother is almost as big as the "big brother" and doesn't need any help in this, unless he wants to own up to the charges, which HTC won't. Best case they will sucessfully defend by demonstrating clear differentiation. Worst case, they will seek to settle, and failing that will have a judgement and penalties against them. Google's back is not turned, they are watching closely, and Apple is probably waiting for them to commit enough to allow an opening for doing discovery at Google as well. It's called strategy folks. Lot's of really smart people use it. \
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Yeah, but Microsoft does "make" the Zune HD -- or would that be exempt since it isn't a phone? I wouldn't think so since it competes with the iPod touch. - the Zune doesn't compete with the iPod Touch. It maybe was meant to, but neither infrastructure nor marketshare make it a competitor. So the Zune system is not any kind of threat, and Microsoft is in fact an Apple partner, licenser and licensee. Zune may evolve into a competitor but not for some time.
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Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him. - what the heck is this?? REALLY?? Naw, Apple is more like Darth Maul, or Boris Badinov, or a dispeptic Adolph Hitler with a migraine. Seriously, can you come up with NOTHING better than that?? Apple is not the majority player in the cell industry - Nokia is. RIM has more marketshare than Apple in the smartphone category. So no "top of a hill" - maybe Apple lives at the end of a semi-stylish, upwardly mobile cul-de-sac, with a nearly-paid for Mercedes sitting in the drive? And doesn't like the neighbors much, but tolerates them as long as they don't steal the lawn ornaments or shrubs. Just as silly and completely inaccurate as your metaphor, but at least a tiny bit less inaccurate.
----------------------------------------
Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones. - More realistically, Apple probably targets those devices and patents that are most problematic to its own patents and devices, based on research by their IP protection team (buncha expert lawyer types). The Nokia thing has been cooked to well done here in AI, so check out some of the more intelligent responses on the suits and countersuits.
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
"To greet him?" I think you mean to steal the vegetables from his garden. You know, the ones he sells in the market on Sundays to pay for that big house at the top of the hill.
HTC should grown their own vegetables, not nick them from other people's gardens.
I do, more than you in fact. Software patents were controversial at the start and continue to be, because they are an unnecessary evil that prevents innovation. Too many companies are filing software patents on other people's prior art, and because the patent offices are run in the interest of business, like so many other government entities, and no longer in the public interest, they are issuing patents to non-inventors. It's theft plain and simple. Patents were introduced as a legal concept not to protect business but to encourage innovation, but big business has subverted the process.
It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. -really? Bullying? Let's just disregard that tired old Apple is looking more like Microsoft meme as just that.
No, let's not. Not until you form a cogent argument as to why it's not true.
Comments
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.
But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
No offense, but I hardly think HTC is coming up to "greet" Apple.
With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.
And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.
In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.
MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.
Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.
But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
You mean, like Hunter S. Thompson used to do? That was really mostly for sport.
Look at the crappie device from HTC, you can see why Apple is suing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLOndllpUM
lol yeah what a piece of junk
What else could they say? They're already shipping product. If they admit they've been stealing Apple's Intellectual Property they may as well shut down production.
They're completely innocent of all charges just like OJ Simpson was.
1) Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones.
2) Apple wont sue MSFT because they can countersue on pretty much any basis.
3) Apple wont sue Palm, because they have deep patent portfolios and because they have actually created a unique interface in the Pre.
4) Apple does want to sue Google, because the Android is a complete ripoff (go look at leaded images of Android right before the iPhone was released. Multitouch wasn't even part of the design at the time). However, suing HTC is how Apple is getting at Google.
HTC is a good target for them because they have a weak patent portfolio. Also, Apple is not, and should not be, worried about Google's patent portfolio. The reason is that in the few markets that Google/Apple do overlap, Apple has always been there first. The only exception to this is probably whatever Apple might do in ads, but we haven't reached there yet.
With all due respect, do you understand how the market works? No business on Earth is content to have at most 50% of any market, much less invent then ignore such niceties as patents, infringment law, etc. While I understand the sense of what you wrote, the naïveté about how business pursue their plans is striking.
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.
Stick to the car analogies!
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.
But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
Assuming you're serious, say hello to the people of your planet for me.
This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.
So how do you feel about Nokia's suit against Apple?
Many here, and nearly every anti-Apple pundit, heck even this site and many supposedly pro-Apple sites and pundits, deride Apple for this suit agains HTC, yet there's no such derision for Nokia and its suit against Apple.
In my mind there's no difference, that there is hypocritical ... plain and simple hypocrisy. It's a double standard filled with hatred of all things Apple or that could be beneficial to Apple.
With regards to multi-touch, why hasn't Apple gone after Palm or Microsoft? Both use multitouch currently.
And Palm seems to be in a weeks position than HTC which would make them an easy "kill". HTC has the backing of Google, which means that Apple might be barking up the wrong tree.
Or maybe Apple thinks that HTC is more obviously in violation of their patents?
Keep in mind that Apple is not suing over multitouch but over the patents which involve specific implementations. Whether Microsoft and Palm use multitouch is completely irrelevant.
This whole situation is ugly. I'm someone who's trying to switch over to the Mac from PCs, and I am surprised that Apple is being so public about this lawsuit. It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. I'm not the biggest fan of Google but Apple needs to embrace the principle of competition and just try to beat up the competitors off-field.
Apple's not being public about it at all. The media is (as usual) trying to stir up a feeding frenzy. I'm not sure Apple even released a press release, but if they did, it was a single announcement and that's it. How is Apple 'being so public'?
Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products.
Nokia's claims are worthless. Nokia is part of a consortium where the members agree to license their patents under fair and equal terms yet Nokia refused to license to Apple under the same terms that everyone else got. Instead, they are demanding not only exorbitant license fees, but also access to Apple's patents. The only remaining question is how badly Nokia will lose. If they lose on the patent issue, the cost is modest (they simply have to license their technology to Apple under the same terms everyone else gets). If, OTOH, they lose the antitrust case, they're in a world of hurt.
As for HTC, you really need to read the patents. Apple didn't patent a 'gesture based smartphone'. They patented specific components of the software interface - and claim that HTC has violated them. If Apple is violating any HTC patents, then HTC can countersue Apple over those patents, but that does not get them off the hook for alleged violations of Apple's patents.
Lawsuits such as these are never filed in attempt to right the stated wrong, there is always an ulterior motive.
In this case, I imagine that Apple is suing in order to keep it's competitive advantage in the smartphone market.
MS and Palm never mattered in this regard, they have and will continue to lose market share.
Android phones are the only devices that are gaining in the market. They are the only competitors that matter.
Apple perhaps avoided directly suing Google, since their products and services are so closely integrated that it would be bad for future business, despite Stevie being a little pissed off. Also, as earlier mentioned, HTC has less patent filings to countersue with, so they were an easy target to take down, and make an example of.
Apple presumably hasn't sued Google because Google is not selling a product which infringes Apple's patents. If Apple wins against HTC, then they can go after Google as a contributory infringer, but going after Google before winning the HTC case would be premature.
It's funny that HTC makes no mention of their own patents!
Another article says they were the first to patent a touch screen phone...
You mean, like Hunter S. Thompson used to do? That was really mostly for sport.
He was an excellent writer.
Did you see that documentary that Johnny Depp narrated. A must see for all Gonzo fans.
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill.
But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
Do you understand the concept of a patent?...
It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. -really? Bullying? Let's just disregard that tired old Apple is looking more like Microsoft meme as just that. As for HTC, let's look at their 2004 Net income report: Total revenues of fiscal year 2004 are estimated to be NT$27,896 million with a 28.00% of YoY growth rate since wireless products are about to take off. Net income will be NT$2,018 million and earnings per share before tax based on forecasted weighted average capital will reach NT$7.84.
As for the financial results of the first quarter of 2004, total revenues reached NT$ 6,886 million and income after tax totaled NT$711 million with 46% and 47% YoY growth respectively. Earnings per share were NT$3.27.
Yeah. They're just some little cellphone Mom and Pop joint. Nice call there.
--------------
Apple should be careful. The Nokia claim can leave them in a bad position everybody license the GSM tech form Nokia except that decided that GSM is not innovation like "theirs". Anyways out of all the response I see from HTC is interesting that they claim to release the first gesture based smartphone and under those claims basically the iPhone is a copy of a bunch of already existing technologies. Well that's what they say I wonder if they can prove that on court, if they do I see a dark future for all those iB.S. Apple products. - Geez - did you even look into the claims by Apple regarding Nokia? It's been rehashed here on a number of threads. Nokia's patents are part of the GSM standard and are subject to special restrictions and controls - they ignored that and demanded more money from Apple (Apple's claim), so no. Apple will either be found to be under those controls and Nokia found to be attempting extortion, or Apple will be found in violation and required to pay. End of story. As for HTC's claims - they will be either proven or disproven in court - the statement was for public and shareholder consumption. The suits allow for each company's legal team to do discovery among the records of the other to determine the viability of the claims. The lawyer handling this for Apple is a world-reknowned patent litigator, and having reviewed the claims - probably figures he has a case for Apple on this.
---------------------------------
A good deal of the patents Apple is claiming were violated have to do with software. HTC modified the software provided to them from Google. In the end, it's still a round-about attack on Android by going after the little brother when the big brother's back is turned. - see my comment above - except that the "little" brother is almost as big as the "big brother" and doesn't need any help in this, unless he wants to own up to the charges, which HTC won't. Best case they will sucessfully defend by demonstrating clear differentiation. Worst case, they will seek to settle, and failing that will have a judgement and penalties against them. Google's back is not turned, they are watching closely, and Apple is probably waiting for them to commit enough to allow an opening for doing discovery at Google as well. It's called strategy folks. Lot's of really smart people use it.
-------------------------------------
Yeah, but Microsoft does "make" the Zune HD -- or would that be exempt since it isn't a phone? I wouldn't think so since it competes with the iPod touch. - the Zune doesn't compete with the iPod Touch. It maybe was meant to, but neither infrastructure nor marketshare make it a competitor. So the Zune system is not any kind of threat, and Microsoft is in fact an Apple partner, licenser and licensee. Zune may evolve into a competitor but not for some time.
--------------------------------------
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him. - what the heck is this?? REALLY?? Naw, Apple is more like Darth Maul, or Boris Badinov, or a dispeptic Adolph Hitler with a migraine. Seriously, can you come up with NOTHING better than that?? Apple is not the majority player in the cell industry - Nokia is. RIM has more marketshare than Apple in the smartphone category. So no "top of a hill" - maybe Apple lives at the end of a semi-stylish, upwardly mobile cul-de-sac, with a nearly-paid for Mercedes sitting in the drive? And doesn't like the neighbors much, but tolerates them as long as they don't steal the lawn ornaments or shrubs. Just as silly and completely inaccurate as your metaphor, but at least a tiny bit less inaccurate.
----------------------------------------
Apple wont sue Nokia (well, they are, but its a countersuit) and Motorola because they have deep patent portfolios for phones. - More realistically, Apple probably targets those devices and patents that are most problematic to its own patents and devices, based on research by their IP protection team (buncha expert lawyer types). The Nokia thing has been cooked to well done here in AI, so check out some of the more intelligent responses on the suits and countersuits.
Apple is like the rich man who lives at the top of a hill. But instead of being noble and kind, he keeps sending his attack dogs to maul anyone who tries to come up to greet him.
"To greet him?" I think you mean to steal the vegetables from his garden. You know, the ones he sells in the market on Sundays to pay for that big house at the top of the hill.
HTC should grown their own vegetables, not nick them from other people's gardens.
Do you understand the concept of a patent?...
I do, more than you in fact. Software patents were controversial at the start and continue to be, because they are an unnecessary evil that prevents innovation. Too many companies are filing software patents on other people's prior art, and because the patent offices are run in the interest of business, like so many other government entities, and no longer in the public interest, they are issuing patents to non-inventors. It's theft plain and simple. Patents were introduced as a legal concept not to protect business but to encourage innovation, but big business has subverted the process.
It looks like bullying to me. Apple is looking more and more like Microsoft. -really? Bullying? Let's just disregard that tired old Apple is looking more like Microsoft meme as just that.
No, let's not. Not until you form a cogent argument as to why it's not true.