Apple could start rewriting CS using native Apple technologies and things like OpenCL and Grand Central - which would give the Mac version a far, far stronger market position than it has now. They could get back to the point where Macs offered real performance advantages on Adobe apps.
If Apple bought Adobe, it'd mean more than that - the windows version of CS5 would likely go away.
You're right that wasting tons of cash on a vendetta isn't smart. But buying Adobe could be much more valuable than simply killing Flash.
Apple could start rewriting CS using native Apple technologies and things like OpenCL and Grand Central - which would give the Mac version a far, far stronger market position than it has now. They could get back to the point where Macs offered real performance advantages on Adobe apps.
Actually, if Apple wanted to do that, I think the money spent to buy Adobe would be wasted. It would be cheaper, faster, and easier to just develop new competing apps, or buy some small, promising player that already has good cocoa based apps that would be a good starting point for development.
Seriously guys make some hardware and see if you will lets others run software on it. Adobe frankly doesn't get it. Flash is one of the web's worst ideas and should be allowed to die. Canvas, and Jquery are proof that Flash is like a 1990s pop song, eye candy, without purpose and crap. Adobe, you screwed mac users with CS suite interface built for the PC and "just" ported for mac, and now you want us mac users again? WE DONT WANT YOU.
Since you ended in caps, i'll begin in caps: YOU'RE MISINFORMED. CS5 Flash has the ability to smart paste canvas elements into HTML which, to my knowledge, is more support and a cooler IDE for canvas development than anything else I know of. How does this translate to "Adobe hates canvas"??? Also, people keep pointing to the scalable vector graphics aspect of canvas and ignoring the abundance of components and underlying technologies like RTMP (and it's various flavors) that flash supports to which there are no competing alternatives. Without Flash showing what can be done TODAY, you're stuck with what can be done in 10 years IF there remains a huge interest from browser makers in the direction of standards compliance and feature development.
I'm all for developing a better experience on the web using standards based technologies, but this FUD being spread about Adobe holding back the internet is opinion based in uninformed or misinformed bias. It's a tool, a technology, like any other, and a far more secure one than the "standards" based technologies being pawned off as some sort of holy grail of tech.
Actually, if Apple wanted to do that, I think the money spent to buy Adobe would be wasted. It would be cheaper, faster, and easier to just develop new competing apps, or buy some small, promising player that already has good cocoa based apps that would be a good starting point for development.
CS5 is the 64bit version of the creative suite. Nuff said.
The problem is that Flash is unsuitable for Mobile use - which is why NO smartphone has a full Flash implementation. It's not just Apple telling Adobe that Flash stinks, it's every single smart phone developer. (Android MAY have 10.1 some day, but even that has limited functionality, high CPU and battery usage, and won't run on more than a very tiny percentage of phones since it requires Cortex 8). Flash is bad enough on Macs, but it just doesn't work on mobiles.
Just what is unreasonable about the options, anyway? The fact that Apple won't allow unfettered access to private APIs? The fact that Apple expects you to follow the SDK? Sorry, but lots of other platforms work the same way.
The newest android phones are cortex 8 and 9 or will be potentially tegra 1 and 2. Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint. Marketshare aside, those will be the next great phones to own. It runs amazingly well which makes me wonder what the hell you're trying to say about it being a resource hog. My guess is you have NO experience running flash on mobile and you're clearly repeating something you read somewhere that you bought into hook line and sinker. Good job.
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
Anyway, Adobe is run by a sales guy now, and seems to spend a lot of their resources on PR and bullshit like "The Open Screen Project" (i.e. if everybody users Adobe products for everything what a wonderfully interoperable world it would be), so I'm not sure they have the corporate culture to do anything but wage a PR initiative now. God forbid they write better software for the platform.
Screw you, Adobe.
I fail to see how the open screen project plays into your argument that Adobe is all about PR nor do I understand how a positive change to Flash is fodder for what appears to be unending hatred towards Flash as a platform and Adobe as a company. Do enlighten me. I await your profound and well informed retort.
Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint..
I have seen nothing about Flash 10.1 being released. Do you have links to these non-Beta ROMs with Flash 10.1 included?
Quote:
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
I can just set Apple aside for my own opinion on this one.
I've been disappointed and frustrated in Flash since the first day I saw it. I've never been into the fluffy stuff that makes me wait for downloads and makes my processors scream and ram disappear from available resources.
Macromedia/Adobe's "rich internet experience" has never been anything but a dog to me. I think it's too bad that so many designers have leaned so heavily on Flash based web "features" because there are a lot of us who suffer for it.
I use various Linux distros, 3 Windows versions, mac, iPod Touch, and even a Pocket PC. Flash stinks on every one of those that supports it. If Flash dies I consider it good riddance. Take that in the DreamWeaver pipe and smoke it.
If Apple bought Adobe, it'd mean more than that - the windows version of CS5 would likely go away.
Not likely. Apple is well aware of the value of cross-platform apps--which is why they offer Safari, iTunes, etc on both platforms. Not to mention the enormous revenues from the Windows version.
I fully expect that their programmers have more knowledge of how to make the Mac version fly, so the Mac version would quickly outpace the Windows version, but there'd be no reason to drop it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
CS5 is the 64bit version of the creative suite. Nuff said.
Wrong. Not all the apps are 64 bit. Nuff said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
The newest android phones are cortex 8 and 9 or will be potentially tegra 1 and 2. Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint. Marketshare aside, those will be the next great phones to own. It runs amazingly well which makes me wonder what the hell you're trying to say about it being a resource hog. My guess is you have NO experience running flash on mobile and you're clearly repeating something you read somewhere that you bought into hook line and sinker. Good job.
NO ONE has any experience running a release version of Flash on mobile devices--because it doesn't exist. Flash Lite is greatly limited and almost useless. Flash 10.1 is still in beta - and most reports are that it's still slow. Furthermore, even if it came out today, the devices that you listed that would run it make up less than 1% of mobile devices. Every other phone developer apparently agrees with Apple - Flash doesn't belong on mobile devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
How many developers have left the iPhone platform? Will their 185,000 apps drop to 184,000? At worst?
How many customers have left? If it's more than single digits, I'd be surprised. In fact, banning Flash may lead to MORE customers since the quality of the experience is better without Flash.
And what makes you think they're gaining little? Apple says it will help them ensure app quality. Why should we believe that you know more about it than Apple?
I'm sorry, but if you can't learn to develop for the OS, you're not needed. There are enough fart apps already that more mindless clones of existing junk is a waste. Apple is saying "we're happy to have all the quality apps we can get, but if you're not interested in making a good app, don't bother". I support that 100%. I'd much rather have 100 great apps than 10,000 cookie cutter garbage apps.
Since you can't defend your position rationally, you just accuse my products of being "fart apps" and "mindless clones?"
Have you ever creatively produced a product worth selling?
In a worst case scenario, Apple could buy 51-100% of Adobe...
One way to do that even more affordably might be to lower their market cap by orchestrating a series of events that lowers the value of the products the company sells.
Not that that's what's happening here, of course....
A) Adobe's stance on carbon should not mean that apple gets a free pass on trying to maintain complete control of the iphoneOS dev toolchain in such a manner.
Do you *really* think that IBM really hurt much by losing Apple? Apple didnt exactly make up a large piece of IBM's business, nor motorola's really. Between those companies you have the chips in nearly every current set-top box, microwave, gaming system... the list goes on (not to mention all the other areas Big Blue and motorola are in)
Apple is not unlikely to put Adobe out of business either. But ask anyone at IBM or Motorola who was involved with the clone licensing fiasco whether noses were put out of joint. You can bet there was a lot of behind the scenes angst over this; big companies like this are not used to small clients reneging on this scale. The only real difference now is Apple is one of the big guys, not a small upstart battling to stay ahead of Chapter 11.
Comments
Apple could start rewriting CS using native Apple technologies and things like OpenCL and Grand Central - which would give the Mac version a far, far stronger market position than it has now. They could get back to the point where Macs offered real performance advantages on Adobe apps.
If Apple bought Adobe, it'd mean more than that - the windows version of CS5 would likely go away.
You're right that wasting tons of cash on a vendetta isn't smart. But buying Adobe could be much more valuable than simply killing Flash.
Apple could start rewriting CS using native Apple technologies and things like OpenCL and Grand Central - which would give the Mac version a far, far stronger market position than it has now. They could get back to the point where Macs offered real performance advantages on Adobe apps.
Actually, if Apple wanted to do that, I think the money spent to buy Adobe would be wasted. It would be cheaper, faster, and easier to just develop new competing apps, or buy some small, promising player that already has good cocoa based apps that would be a good starting point for development.
Seriously guys make some hardware and see if you will lets others run software on it. Adobe frankly doesn't get it. Flash is one of the web's worst ideas and should be allowed to die. Canvas, and Jquery are proof that Flash is like a 1990s pop song, eye candy, without purpose and crap. Adobe, you screwed mac users with CS suite interface built for the PC and "just" ported for mac, and now you want us mac users again? WE DONT WANT YOU.
Since you ended in caps, i'll begin in caps: YOU'RE MISINFORMED. CS5 Flash has the ability to smart paste canvas elements into HTML which, to my knowledge, is more support and a cooler IDE for canvas development than anything else I know of. How does this translate to "Adobe hates canvas"??? Also, people keep pointing to the scalable vector graphics aspect of canvas and ignoring the abundance of components and underlying technologies like RTMP (and it's various flavors) that flash supports to which there are no competing alternatives. Without Flash showing what can be done TODAY, you're stuck with what can be done in 10 years IF there remains a huge interest from browser makers in the direction of standards compliance and feature development.
I'm all for developing a better experience on the web using standards based technologies, but this FUD being spread about Adobe holding back the internet is opinion based in uninformed or misinformed bias. It's a tool, a technology, like any other, and a far more secure one than the "standards" based technologies being pawned off as some sort of holy grail of tech.
Actually, if Apple wanted to do that, I think the money spent to buy Adobe would be wasted. It would be cheaper, faster, and easier to just develop new competing apps, or buy some small, promising player that already has good cocoa based apps that would be a good starting point for development.
CS5 is the 64bit version of the creative suite. Nuff said.
The problem is that Flash is unsuitable for Mobile use - which is why NO smartphone has a full Flash implementation. It's not just Apple telling Adobe that Flash stinks, it's every single smart phone developer. (Android MAY have 10.1 some day, but even that has limited functionality, high CPU and battery usage, and won't run on more than a very tiny percentage of phones since it requires Cortex 8). Flash is bad enough on Macs, but it just doesn't work on mobiles.
Just what is unreasonable about the options, anyway? The fact that Apple won't allow unfettered access to private APIs? The fact that Apple expects you to follow the SDK? Sorry, but lots of other platforms work the same way.
The newest android phones are cortex 8 and 9 or will be potentially tegra 1 and 2. Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint. Marketshare aside, those will be the next great phones to own. It runs amazingly well which makes me wonder what the hell you're trying to say about it being a resource hog. My guess is you have NO experience running flash on mobile and you're clearly repeating something you read somewhere that you bought into hook line and sinker. Good job.
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
Anyway, Adobe is run by a sales guy now, and seems to spend a lot of their resources on PR and bullshit like "The Open Screen Project" (i.e. if everybody users Adobe products for everything what a wonderfully interoperable world it would be), so I'm not sure they have the corporate culture to do anything but wage a PR initiative now. God forbid they write better software for the platform.
Screw you, Adobe.
I fail to see how the open screen project plays into your argument that Adobe is all about PR nor do I understand how a positive change to Flash is fodder for what appears to be unending hatred towards Flash as a platform and Adobe as a company. Do enlighten me. I await your profound and well informed retort.
Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint..
I have seen nothing about Flash 10.1 being released. Do you have links to these non-Beta ROMs with Flash 10.1 included?
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
Perhaps you should read this...
Instead of acting like a spoiled brat maybe Adobe should've been creating instead.
One tactic works the other doesn't, especially with Jobs and Apple.
I've been disappointed and frustrated in Flash since the first day I saw it. I've never been into the fluffy stuff that makes me wait for downloads and makes my processors scream and ram disappear from available resources.
Macromedia/Adobe's "rich internet experience" has never been anything but a dog to me. I think it's too bad that so many designers have leaned so heavily on Flash based web "features" because there are a lot of us who suffer for it.
I use various Linux distros, 3 Windows versions, mac, iPod Touch, and even a Pocket PC. Flash stinks on every one of those that supports it. If Flash dies I consider it good riddance. Take that in the DreamWeaver pipe and smoke it.
If Apple bought Adobe, it'd mean more than that - the windows version of CS5 would likely go away.
Not likely. Apple is well aware of the value of cross-platform apps--which is why they offer Safari, iTunes, etc on both platforms. Not to mention the enormous revenues from the Windows version.
I fully expect that their programmers have more knowledge of how to make the Mac version fly, so the Mac version would quickly outpace the Windows version, but there'd be no reason to drop it.
CS5 is the 64bit version of the creative suite. Nuff said.
Wrong. Not all the apps are 64 bit. Nuff said.
The newest android phones are cortex 8 and 9 or will be potentially tegra 1 and 2. Flash 10.1 is currently supported in the SenseUI from HTC and runs perfectly well when you upgrade the ROM on even the Nexus One. It also runs on the HD2 and EVO phones on T-Mobile and Sprint. Marketshare aside, those will be the next great phones to own. It runs amazingly well which makes me wonder what the hell you're trying to say about it being a resource hog. My guess is you have NO experience running flash on mobile and you're clearly repeating something you read somewhere that you bought into hook line and sinker. Good job.
NO ONE has any experience running a release version of Flash on mobile devices--because it doesn't exist. Flash Lite is greatly limited and almost useless. Flash 10.1 is still in beta - and most reports are that it's still slow. Furthermore, even if it came out today, the devices that you listed that would run it make up less than 1% of mobile devices. Every other phone developer apparently agrees with Apple - Flash doesn't belong on mobile devices.
As for how it's unreasonable that they lock down the SDK, well it's pissing off developers, losing them customers, and gaining them very little if anything other than a staunchly polarized developer base. How that benefits anyone is beyond comprehension.
How many developers have left the iPhone platform? Will their 185,000 apps drop to 184,000? At worst?
How many customers have left? If it's more than single digits, I'd be surprised. In fact, banning Flash may lead to MORE customers since the quality of the experience is better without Flash.
And what makes you think they're gaining little? Apple says it will help them ensure app quality. Why should we believe that you know more about it than Apple?
I'm sorry, but if you can't learn to develop for the OS, you're not needed. There are enough fart apps already that more mindless clones of existing junk is a waste. Apple is saying "we're happy to have all the quality apps we can get, but if you're not interested in making a good app, don't bother". I support that 100%. I'd much rather have 100 great apps than 10,000 cookie cutter garbage apps.
Since you can't defend your position rationally, you just accuse my products of being "fart apps" and "mindless clones?"
Have you ever creatively produced a product worth selling?
In a worst case scenario, Apple could buy 51-100% of Adobe...
One way to do that even more affordably might be to lower their market cap by orchestrating a series of events that lowers the value of the products the company sells.
Not that that's what's happening here, of course....
I was with you up to this point.
A) Adobe's stance on carbon should not mean that apple gets a free pass on trying to maintain complete control of the iphoneOS dev toolchain in such a manner.
Apple is not unlikely to put Adobe out of business either. But ask anyone at IBM or Motorola who was involved with the clone licensing fiasco whether noses were put out of joint. You can bet there was a lot of behind the scenes angst over this; big companies like this are not used to small clients reneging on this scale. The only real difference now is Apple is one of the big guys, not a small upstart battling to stay ahead of Chapter 11.