Something is different. I can attest to that, since I have tried the direct connection method and found that it doesn't work.
You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.
Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
Go read the USB spec. For starters, host devices have to have a CPU
Now granted, the iPad has a CPU, but it's highly doubtful that the electronics in the iPad that do USB over the dock connector know how to do anything other than be a device.
I thought someone took apart the original iPod camera connector and determined there was more in there than a simple pass through?
Hmm, I might take mine iPod camera connector apart since I doubt I will ever use it again. And no, it doesn't work with the iPad (yes, I tried )
I'm not going to read the USB spec. It will answer absolutely no question I have about importing images and video onto the iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
I think you just proved my point - if it was as simple as a cable, they would have just sold such a cable since they do sell other passthrough cables.
Again, what are you implying here? That Apple is up to no good? I have yet to see them do something that didn't have a legitimate reason and I doubt they would start on an iPad USB port connector.
Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.
I'm implying that I don't know how the camera kit works and what its limitations are. As previously noted I've tried to figure it out but without having the accessory in hand it's simply not possible to run an iPad and cameras though all the necessary tests.
You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.
Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?
I don't know about that. Nobody does yet. I am only saying that the simple pass-through question should be answered. It's been tested and does not work. We also know that the iPod camera kit does not work on the iPad. So whatever Apple has done here, it's probably not standard and off-the-shelf.
I don't do audio recording at other than a very, very amateur level, so I may be wrong, but isn't decent audio recording fairly CPU intensive - particular wrt latency?
If so, I just can't see the iPad doing that.
Once again, you just don't get it. There are tradeoffs to any engineering design. Apple decided to include only those items that are needed for this 'media consumption device'. As soon as you start arbitrarily adding ports, where do you stop? Maybe someone needs 2 USB ports. Or 3. Someone else wants an SD slot. Then, you get the people with CF cameras who want a CF slot. Or why not a parallel port - since some printers still require that. We have some electronic equipment that requires a serial port, so better include that, too. Pretty soon, you've doubled the weight, cut the battery life in half, and reduced the structural rigidity by 60%.
It's not that it would have been impossible to include a USB port - a mini USB port doesn't take much space. It's just that the tradeoffs aren't worth it. What is the average iPad user going to do that requires USB? Absolutely nothing - it was designed to make use of WiFi for everything.
Hard Disks? Not needed - iPad has no user-accessible file system
Printers - use WiFi
Cameras - use WiFi or Camera connection kit
video out - cable available
Audio in/out - mic/headphone jack
videocam - will plug into 30 pin port when available
Then there's the added problem. If you put a USB port in, people start plugging in everything in sight - and wonder why it doesn't work. 99% of the time, they'd blame it on the iPad. It's not meant to be a full blown computer.
No, I get it. My points are mostly these two: I have a drawer full of Apple adapters that I now can't use for anything, some of them not very old. If Apple is going to have features accessible by another adapter they'd have created some better will by including it.
Secondly, yes, I'm aware of the literal difference between my Intuous and a tablet, but Apple's form-over-function struggle to create a cardboard thin MacBook Air only succeeded in showing they could do it. I just chuckle at the "We'll make it thinner!!!" cry from R & D. I've ued both Lenovo and Archos tablets and while the iPad interface and touch response is far superior, there wasn't anything about the others that required shaving anything off their dimensions before I'd consider them. The "paper thin or nothing" creed just rubs me as a misguided use of design talent, that's all.
The "where would all the port adding stop" argument is silly. They chose none. I would have liked one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
But they did accommodate - there is the adaptor for those that really need it.
How do you know the space concession is the size of a pea? Obviously it isn't or the camera adaptor would be smaller (because we know that Apple is known for making things unnecessarily large).
Aside from the physical space of the USB port, there are electronics that go with it.
It's like every other "feature" that Apple left off. There is a minority that wants it, it otherwise detracts from the device, so the "tyranny of the minority" will not dictate the overall design of the device and they left it off. They did provide the camera adaptor, which seems to have far more functionality that just hooking up to cameras.
And it's not battery powered, nor a general purpose computing device. Nor do it's edges taper down like the iPad - and it's a significant design feature that contributes to the overall attractiveness of the device.
BTW, my Intuous sure does have tapered edges, at least two : )
But I agree that Apple is merely saying "This is what it is" and making a niche product, and it's not defined by what it doesn't have.
I hope it works the same way as iPhoto on desktop, which does store it as RAW. There is an icon at the bottom of the window that indicates that it is a RAW image.
Others have reported that it does store and sync the RAW back.
Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.
OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement
OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement
As a general rule, if you disagree with me you're probably doing something wrong. Please don't take that seriously
Comments
Something is different. I can attest to that, since I have tried the direct connection method and found that it doesn't work.
You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.
Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?
Go read the USB spec. For starters, host devices have to have a CPU
Now granted, the iPad has a CPU, but it's highly doubtful that the electronics in the iPad that do USB over the dock connector know how to do anything other than be a device.
I thought someone took apart the original iPod camera connector and determined there was more in there than a simple pass through?
Hmm, I might take mine iPod camera connector apart since I doubt I will ever use it again. And no, it doesn't work with the iPad (yes, I tried
I'm not going to read the USB spec. It will answer absolutely no question I have about importing images and video onto the iPad.
I think you just proved my point - if it was as simple as a cable, they would have just sold such a cable since they do sell other passthrough cables.
Again, what are you implying here? That Apple is up to no good? I have yet to see them do something that didn't have a legitimate reason and I doubt they would start on an iPad USB port connector.
Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.
I'm implying that I don't know how the camera kit works and what its limitations are. As previously noted I've tried to figure it out but without having the accessory in hand it's simply not possible to run an iPad and cameras though all the necessary tests.
You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.
Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?
I don't know about that. Nobody does yet. I am only saying that the simple pass-through question should be answered. It's been tested and does not work. We also know that the iPod camera kit does not work on the iPad. So whatever Apple has done here, it's probably not standard and off-the-shelf.
I don't do audio recording at other than a very, very amateur level, so I may be wrong, but isn't decent audio recording fairly CPU intensive - particular wrt latency?
If so, I just can't see the iPad doing that.
Once again, you just don't get it. There are tradeoffs to any engineering design. Apple decided to include only those items that are needed for this 'media consumption device'. As soon as you start arbitrarily adding ports, where do you stop? Maybe someone needs 2 USB ports. Or 3. Someone else wants an SD slot. Then, you get the people with CF cameras who want a CF slot. Or why not a parallel port - since some printers still require that. We have some electronic equipment that requires a serial port, so better include that, too. Pretty soon, you've doubled the weight, cut the battery life in half, and reduced the structural rigidity by 60%.
It's not that it would have been impossible to include a USB port - a mini USB port doesn't take much space. It's just that the tradeoffs aren't worth it. What is the average iPad user going to do that requires USB? Absolutely nothing - it was designed to make use of WiFi for everything.
Hard Disks? Not needed - iPad has no user-accessible file system
Printers - use WiFi
Cameras - use WiFi or Camera connection kit
video out - cable available
Audio in/out - mic/headphone jack
videocam - will plug into 30 pin port when available
Then there's the added problem. If you put a USB port in, people start plugging in everything in sight - and wonder why it doesn't work. 99% of the time, they'd blame it on the iPad. It's not meant to be a full blown computer.
No, I get it. My points are mostly these two: I have a drawer full of Apple adapters that I now can't use for anything, some of them not very old. If Apple is going to have features accessible by another adapter they'd have created some better will by including it.
Secondly, yes, I'm aware of the literal difference between my Intuous and a tablet, but Apple's form-over-function struggle to create a cardboard thin MacBook Air only succeeded in showing they could do it. I just chuckle at the "We'll make it thinner!!!" cry from R & D. I've ued both Lenovo and Archos tablets and while the iPad interface and touch response is far superior, there wasn't anything about the others that required shaving anything off their dimensions before I'd consider them. The "paper thin or nothing" creed just rubs me as a misguided use of design talent, that's all.
The "where would all the port adding stop" argument is silly. They chose none. I would have liked one.
But they did accommodate - there is the adaptor for those that really need it.
How do you know the space concession is the size of a pea? Obviously it isn't or the camera adaptor would be smaller (because we know that Apple is known for making things unnecessarily large).
Aside from the physical space of the USB port, there are electronics that go with it.
It's like every other "feature" that Apple left off. There is a minority that wants it, it otherwise detracts from the device, so the "tyranny of the minority" will not dictate the overall design of the device and they left it off. They did provide the camera adaptor, which seems to have far more functionality that just hooking up to cameras.
And it's not battery powered, nor a general purpose computing device. Nor do it's edges taper down like the iPad - and it's a significant design feature that contributes to the overall attractiveness of the device.
BTW, my Intuous sure does have tapered edges, at least two : )
But I agree that Apple is merely saying "This is what it is" and making a niche product, and it's not defined by what it doesn't have.
I hope it works the same way as iPhoto on desktop, which does store it as RAW. There is an icon at the bottom of the window that indicates that it is a RAW image.
Others have reported that it does store and sync the RAW back.
Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.
OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement
OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement
As a general rule, if you disagree with me you're probably doing something wrong.