Where are the Jobs / Apple haters who yesterday called him a liar and control freak? The ones who said H.264 is not open and junk and who blame Apple for everything wrong in our society?
Are H.264 and HTML5 okay now to the Apple haters since MSFT now blesses and backs them?
Can we all finally agree that Flash is on its way out and two of the biggest tech companies say Flash has issues and HTML5 is the future?
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
There's nothing stopping Adobe from working out a way to export HTML5 from the Flash IDE.
The ideal outcome would be for Adobe to support the export of a whole bunch of formats... native apps for the mobile platforms, HTML and the Flash plugin.
We all know who the giant dummy spitting baby is that wreaked that idea though.
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
Flash is very object oriented in terms of loading objects inside of other objects and communicating between them. As opposed to canvas code which has to coexist with all the other unrelated JS on the page. With all the animations and interactivity that I would like to mash together, it gets really difficult to keep those complex interactions organized because there are no RAD tools to do it with.
Agree 110%!! An IDE with a timeline, library, snippets etc...is definitely needed and it seems to me Adobe would be the best candidate. You are really preaching to the choir here, I am not one of the many Flash haters on these boards because I am well aware of the strengths it brings to development. All that being said philosophically I do agree with the open source stance and theoretically I do believe it is possible and is trending that way. Realistically? It's going to be awhile and its going to take a product not yet invented, because Sproutcore is NOT going to cut it.
Also to clarify, JS Harmony is not another JS library but an evolution of the JS language itself upon which libraries are built. For those who don't know. Actionscript 3 (Flash) is actually based on ECAMScript (Javascript) and is nearly identical syntactically and it includes many of the features that developers would love to see eventually implemented in JS.
Put simply, all major broswers will be supporting the use of HTML5, the next new standard, rather than relying on an old and still buggy non-standard...
This shouldn't bother anyone, beside Flash developers with no other skills..and obviously, Adobe. But they have other products, and if they fire their CEO and entire board of directors, they might be able to save those products, and deliver something great in a few years.
This shouldn't bother anyone, beside Flash developers with no other skills..
There is no such thing. ActionScript 3 is almost syntactically identical to JS as they are both based on ECMA, so anyone who knows ActionScript 3 well at all will have little trouble picking up Javascript. That isn't the issue.
The problem isn't the languages. It's the IDE and the ubiquity. The amount of work required to something using JS/XML/CSS/HTML (AJAX) is much greater than it is using the Flash plug-in.
Higher bandwidth is required to develop and test because not all browsers offer the same support for JS. The result is that less money is made because clients don't want to pay more for JS development than they do for Flash. The end result of this is that less money means little motivation. If the industry forces a change so be it, but until then small shops that already have to underbid every project anyway aren't going to start doing more work for less money. Thats just my two-cents.
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
MS has a lot of clout. For them to make this statement about Flash right after Steve's dissertation...
... Flash is definitely dead.
not dead. but dying sure.
What is dead is Adobe being able to claim it's all just Jobs having a bug up his butt to have one. It says a lot when a big name like Microsoft goes on record for the other side, even if it's a vague 'has issues'
obvious. it can't be the past or the present because it doesnt exist yet as a standard. call me in 5 years when the adoption rates make this relevant news.
Exactly. It is obvious that it is the future.
The problem is with the folks who pretend it is the present.
The problem is with the folks who pretend it is the present.
Android browser - PRESENT
Internet Explorer 8 on Windows - PRESENT
WebOS OS and browser - PRESENT and PRESENT
Safari on iPhone OS, Mac OS and Windows - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Chrome on Mac OS, Windows and Linux - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Opera on Mac OS, Windows and Linux - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Firefox on Mac OS, Windows, Linux and Meamo - PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Sure looks like HTML5 is being used in present in browser engines already. This is where you switch up your argument to say that since the entirety of HTML5 isn't being used or that since it's still a draft that these uses of HTML5 that it doesn't count.
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
Call me when the Android UX improves. Then we'll talk.
OMG, hell has frozen over. Quick, grab your ice skates!
I am genuinely impressed by this, but I'm going to temper my enthusiasm with a bit of "I'll believe it when I see it." I hope this isn't one of M$'s "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" attempts.
Anyway, as for IE9 and HTML5 all I can say is THANK GOD. Unfortunately there are still millions (yes millions) of people still using Satan (IE 6), so even when IE 9 is released it will be awhile before we can move away from Flash. But MS and Jobs are both right theoretically, HTML + JS + CSS3 does == the death of Flash. But it won't be until IE9 over takes the older IE versions in global market share.
The most exciting part about IE9 for me is the DOM level 3 support for JS, which is what really allows JavaScript to do anything even remotely like Flash and what most people mean when they say HTML5 is replacing Flash. For those of you who care about semantics, HTML5 is NOT replacing Flash, HTML/JS/AJAX/CSS is. And the most critical part of that puzzle is JS which has been a nightmare to develop with any kind of consistency across browsers until recently (webkit / html5) and is still being held up by IE8.
All these examples you see going around with fancy HTML5 + JS implementations are only running well on webkit browsers which basically means they are useless in the real world. IE9 however will finally bring MS into the present day and hopefully change all that. Now if we could only get the corporate world to abandon IE7 and XP we could really free the web.
What does GOD have to do with humans writing standards?
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
That's amazing! I look at Android's API and it's sparse by comparison to the iPhone OS API.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
I think you're right about laptops going away but not about the timing.
On another forum earlier this month I predicted that Apple would stop making laptops in two years. It will replace them with much more powerful iPads that have greater connectivity to external devices with USB 3 or other connectors. The iPhone OS will evolve to be more powerful and programs will be a la carte via the app store.
Apple will pare down its desktops to a powerful iMac and maybe keep a Mac Pro. Desktop computers today can do what top of the line Mac Pros could do three years ago. In another two years the home version of an iMac will be able to do any type of movie editing that is done at movie studios right now. The iPad with just a few tweaks could replace a Mac Mini today if it had more connectors.
It sounds outrageous today to make such a prediction. In two years we'll see what happens.
This is what Steve Jobs said at the end of the iPad presentation; "When you feel all this power, and this much fun, and the internet in your hands, you'll never wanna go back."
Comments
Are H.264 and HTML5 okay now to the Apple haters since MSFT now blesses and backs them?
Can we all finally agree that Flash is on its way out and two of the biggest tech companies say Flash has issues and HTML5 is the future?
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
There's nothing stopping Adobe from working out a way to export HTML5 from the Flash IDE.
The ideal outcome would be for Adobe to support the export of a whole bunch of formats... native apps for the mobile platforms, HTML and the Flash plugin.
We all know who the giant dummy spitting baby is that wreaked that idea though.
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
Flash is very object oriented in terms of loading objects inside of other objects and communicating between them. As opposed to canvas code which has to coexist with all the other unrelated JS on the page. With all the animations and interactivity that I would like to mash together, it gets really difficult to keep those complex interactions organized because there are no RAD tools to do it with.
Agree 110%!! An IDE with a timeline, library, snippets etc...is definitely needed and it seems to me Adobe would be the best candidate. You are really preaching to the choir here, I am not one of the many Flash haters on these boards because I am well aware of the strengths it brings to development. All that being said philosophically I do agree with the open source stance and theoretically I do believe it is possible and is trending that way. Realistically? It's going to be awhile and its going to take a product not yet invented, because Sproutcore is NOT going to cut it.
Also to clarify, JS Harmony is not another JS library but an evolution of the JS language itself upon which libraries are built. For those who don't know. Actionscript 3 (Flash) is actually based on ECAMScript (Javascript) and is nearly identical syntactically and it includes many of the features that developers would love to see eventually implemented in JS.
Of course it's the future. Steve said so, already!
I was already thinking this when I saw your post.
My thought was "Of course it is, Apple's going that route, so why wouldn't Microsoft follow."
Apple = trailblazer.
Microsoft = follower ... when it can.
This shouldn't bother anyone, beside Flash developers with no other skills..and obviously, Adobe. But they have other products, and if they fire their CEO and entire board of directors, they might be able to save those products, and deliver something great in a few years.
This shouldn't bother anyone, beside Flash developers with no other skills..
There is no such thing. ActionScript 3 is almost syntactically identical to JS as they are both based on ECMA, so anyone who knows ActionScript 3 well at all will have little trouble picking up Javascript. That isn't the issue.
The problem isn't the languages. It's the IDE and the ubiquity. The amount of work required to something using JS/XML/CSS/HTML (AJAX) is much greater than it is using the Flash plug-in.
Higher bandwidth is required to develop and test because not all browsers offer the same support for JS. The result is that less money is made because clients don't want to pay more for JS development than they do for Flash. The end result of this is that less money means little motivation. If the industry forces a change so be it, but until then small shops that already have to underbid every project anyway aren't going to start doing more work for less money. Thats just my two-cents.
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
I, for one, won't dis MS for this bit of news.
MS has a lot of clout. For them to make this statement about Flash right after Steve's dissertation...
... Flash is definitely dead.
not dead. but dying sure.
What is dead is Adobe being able to claim it's all just Jobs having a bug up his butt to have one. It says a lot when a big name like Microsoft goes on record for the other side, even if it's a vague 'has issues'
obvious. it can't be the past or the present because it doesnt exist yet as a standard. call me in 5 years when the adoption rates make this relevant news.
Exactly. It is obvious that it is the future.
The problem is with the folks who pretend it is the present.
The problem is with the folks who pretend it is the present.
Android browser - PRESENT
Internet Explorer 8 on Windows - PRESENT
WebOS OS and browser - PRESENT and PRESENT
Safari on iPhone OS, Mac OS and Windows - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Chrome on Mac OS, Windows and Linux - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Opera on Mac OS, Windows and Linux - PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Firefox on Mac OS, Windows, Linux and Meamo - PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT and PRESENT
Sure looks like HTML5 is being used in present in browser engines already. This is where you switch up your argument to say that since the entirety of HTML5 isn't being used or that since it's still a draft that these uses of HTML5 that it doesn't count.
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
Call me when the Android UX improves. Then we'll talk.
I am genuinely impressed by this, but I'm going to temper my enthusiasm with a bit of "I'll believe it when I see it." I hope this isn't one of M$'s "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" attempts.
Call me when the Android UX improves. Then we'll talk.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.
Of course it's the future. Steve said so, already!
Apple, Microsoft, Google, Mozilla, Opera Software, and a bunch of other companies say so.
The only one betting on Flash is Adobe.
Is it just me or is this guy on every thread?
Anyway, as for IE9 and HTML5 all I can say is THANK GOD. Unfortunately there are still millions (yes millions) of people still using Satan (IE 6), so even when IE 9 is released it will be awhile before we can move away from Flash. But MS and Jobs are both right theoretically, HTML + JS + CSS3 does == the death of Flash. But it won't be until IE9 over takes the older IE versions in global market share.
The most exciting part about IE9 for me is the DOM level 3 support for JS, which is what really allows JavaScript to do anything even remotely like Flash and what most people mean when they say HTML5 is replacing Flash. For those of you who care about semantics, HTML5 is NOT replacing Flash, HTML/JS/AJAX/CSS is. And the most critical part of that puzzle is JS which has been a nightmare to develop with any kind of consistency across browsers until recently (webkit / html5) and is still being held up by IE8.
All these examples you see going around with fancy HTML5 + JS implementations are only running well on webkit browsers which basically means they are useless in the real world. IE9 however will finally bring MS into the present day and hopefully change all that. Now if we could only get the corporate world to abandon IE7 and XP we could really free the web.
What does GOD have to do with humans writing standards?
Sounds like where iOS is now compared to Android. We'll know more when the new iPhone is released, but from the current announcements, it sounds like iOS is just adding some features intended to catch up to Android 2.1.
That's amazing! I look at Android's API and it's sparse by comparison to the iPhone OS API.
What does GOD have to do with humans writing standards?
Well I'm not a religious man so nothing to me really. Just a figure of speech.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.
I liked the way you turned that around. My first laugh of the day, thanks!
I'm not commenting on the content (iOS vs Android) as I have no beef with Android, but the delivery.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
I think you're right about laptops going away but not about the timing.
On another forum earlier this month I predicted that Apple would stop making laptops in two years. It will replace them with much more powerful iPads that have greater connectivity to external devices with USB 3 or other connectors. The iPhone OS will evolve to be more powerful and programs will be a la carte via the app store.
Apple will pare down its desktops to a powerful iMac and maybe keep a Mac Pro. Desktop computers today can do what top of the line Mac Pros could do three years ago. In another two years the home version of an iMac will be able to do any type of movie editing that is done at movie studios right now. The iPad with just a few tweaks could replace a Mac Mini today if it had more connectors.
It sounds outrageous today to make such a prediction. In two years we'll see what happens.
This is what Steve Jobs said at the end of the iPad presentation; "When you feel all this power, and this much fun, and the internet in your hands, you'll never wanna go back."
Smallwheels