2. false. Nokia had been selling their devices in their B&M stores unlocked prior to pulling out. Their Vertu brand also currently sells units unlocked with no service.
no. vertu have their own network from which they buy wholesale from other carriers to service their customers. they cannot sell units without cellular service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznZOFIA111
3. false. It is common practice for foreigners to bring phones from overseas and use a local service.
no again. prepaid kits are not available for purchase to non-residents of japan. maybe you are talking about rental prepaid kits, which are only available in narita and kansai airport. you can ditch the phone and use the simcard to your non-japanese phone, but they won't offer support to configure its settings. you are on your own.
As late as April 28th, DoCoMo was supposed to provide the miniSIMs for the iPad in Japan (Mainichi Shimbun), so talks either broke down in early May, or Softbank made Apple an offer it couldn't refuse. In either case, users will be paying the tab for whatever lucrative option Softbank padded their contract with.
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability? Almost all the online tech sites/blogs/mags are recommending that people go with the WiFi model plus WiMax and avoid Softbank (and the 3G model) altogether...
As late as April 28th, DoCoMo was supposed to provide the miniSIMs for the iPad in Japan (Mainichi Shimbun), so talks either broke down in early May, or Softbank made Apple an offer it couldn't refuse. In either case, users will be paying the tab for whatever lucrative option Softbank padded their contract with.
Mini SIM is the standard SIM card for phones right now. Micro SIM is what the iPad uses. This change in the SIM card plastic does not, in any way, make the iPad locked, that is done on the internal cellular HW.
Furthermore, mobile carriers not supplying Micro SIMs does not in anyway affect the ability for the iPad to take the typical Mini SIM. All you have to do is grab a pair of scissor and trim to the right size. Takes just a moment to do.
Quote:
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability?
Hurting sales in one country to increase sales in another country does not affect Apple's bottom line and could hurt them in the public eye. This is the SoftBank requiring the lock, not Apple.
PS: Bergermeister, if you want an unlocked iPad 3G just send me the money+tax+shipping and I'll send you one. No charge for my time.
Hmm.. the problem is getting a MicroSIM. Did we even debate here why MicroSIMs are used instead of regular SIMs? To prevent use in countries where the iPad is not launched? It is clearly not a design decision. I'm sure this has been discussed to death on other threads, so I'll leave it at that.
EDIT: From user rcfa in another thread:
@nvidia2008: microSIMs are just like regular SIM cards, just smaller. You can cut down your existing SIM card and put it into an adapter to put it back into a phone. It's important to remember that not that long ago SIM cards were the size of credit cards... The chip and contact surfaces however have not changed in all that time, just the empty plastic surrounding it.
Went to a SoftBank shop in the city today about a couple of things and got some interesting info.
A SoftBank employee told me:
- SIM locking is NOT required by law, but is standard practice by the cell companies. The government in April said that the practice should be banned and they will work towards that. The problem is DoCoMo has iMode, SoftBank has its system and so on, so that while the phones might work for speech on other systems, some bigger functionality might be lost. The companies are considering how to change this. He added that it would have been best for both companies had they presented the locked situation before launch.
- SoftBank last week sent out mailings to its shops that contained basic info for them regarding the iPad; most shops won't carry it but they need to know how to handle customers. The prices listed in the mailings changed at least four times in under a week; the staff said that the shops were confused and also that it was odd that even with the extra month due to Apple's delay, SB's home office still hadn't solidified its program. He said the same thing happened with the original iPhone and the 3GS, so it is a regular thing for Apple devices, though he wasn't happy with it. He didn't know if it was changes on the part of SB, Apple or both.
- SB has a call center for the iPhone, as does Apple Japan. He said that often when a customer called the AJ center, they (the AJ CC) would call the SB center for help as the AJ CC, for some unknown reason, wasn't able to provide assistance.
- He couldn't understand the decision for SB to import the WiFi only models in addition to the 3G. He thought perhaps it was a channeling issue to simplify matters.
---
So, the law here doesn't require locking and there is movement to end the practice altogether. Apple could have been in a good position to pressure SB on this, but quite possibly they were given a firm no. From his comments about the AJ CC, it is clear that SB doesn't have a great impression of AJ's abilities, thus reaffirming my belief that Apple Japan has weakened Apple's ability to leverage deals in Japan.
PS: Bergermeister, if you want an unlocked iPad 3G just send me the money+tax+shipping and I'll send you one. No charge for my time.
Thanks for the offer but I ordered a WiFi model as that is basically all I need (for now). I will consider the 3G in the future if my wife decides she wants an iPad, too.
As late as April 28th, DoCoMo was supposed to provide the miniSIMs for the iPad in Japan (Mainichi Shimbun), so talks either broke down in early May, or Softbank made Apple an offer it couldn't refuse. In either case, users will be paying the tab for whatever lucrative option Softbank padded their contract with.
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability? Almost all the online tech sites/blogs/mags are recommending that people go with the WiFi model plus WiMax and avoid Softbank (and the 3G model) altogether...
I don't think anybody is actively trying to limit sales here, but I certainly don't get the impression that all parties involved are trying hard to increase sales. With a little effort, Apple sales here could be through the roof, i-devices and Mac.
"The MicroSim... and is specially manufactured for... Maxis is the first operator in Malaysia to offer this convenience... to customers who are looking forward to the best technologies and services compatible with the latest devices.
Customers are able to sign up for a Micro SIM at any of our 31 Maxis centres nationwide.
To start surfing on the Apple iPad 3G with the Maxis Micro SIM, customers may sign up either a Postpaid Mobile Data plan or a Maxis Broadband Plan:
Apple clearly hasn't sought out exclusivity in any other market.
I think this should be a warning to anyone outside of Canada and the US. This is complete bullshitt. I'm faking pissed.
Regular internet here (Hikari Flets etc) is about $60 per month. There's $30 ADSL but that's slow so that doesn't count. Then there is your wonderful SoftBank mobile phone bill of about $90 per month. There are a couple of Wi-Fi plans you can buy for example SoftBank/YahooBB HotSpot service or NTT's service. Any of them will set you back $30-$40 per month. **Note This WiFi absolutely sucks balls. It's basically only major areas like airports, train stations and some cafes. Unless you're in the core of Tokyo you'll probably have to do some good hunting. Even in Osaka it's slim pickin's.
So basically you have to pay for regular internet, city Wi-Fi, iPhone and iPad bills? Are you kidding me? These companies here in Japan need to die a fast death. They ALL suck gonads.
I think this should be a warning to anyone outside of Canada and the US. This is complete bullshitt. I'm faking pissed.
Regular internet here (Hikari Flets etc) is about $60 per month. There's $30 ADSL but that's slow so that doesn't count. Then there is your wonderful SoftBank mobile phone bill of about $90 per month. There are a couple of Wi-Fi plans you can buy for example SoftBank/YahooBB HotSpot service or NTT's service. Any of them will set you back $30-$40 per month. **Note This WiFi absolutely sucks balls. It's basically only major areas like airports, train stations and some cafes. Unless you're in the core of Tokyo you'll probably have to do some good hunting. Even in Osaka it's slim pickin's.
So basically you have to pay for regular internet, city Wi-Fi, iPhone and iPad bills? Are you kidding me? These companies here in Japan need to die a fast death. They ALL suck gonads.
That's not significantly different than anywhere else in the world. Few places (if any) have universal WiFi coverage, much less free universal WiFi coverage.
I pay for regular Internet (Cable). I pay for a home phone bill. I pay for a mobile phone bill. I have a separate fee for data usage on my mobile phone. I pay for WiFi service. and I pay for data on my iPad 3G.
Some carriers in the US offer combined plans, but ultimately, you pay for what you use. That's no different than Japan - other than it apparently being illegal to sell unlocked phones in Japan if what someone else posted is true.
Some carriers in the US offer combined plans, but ultimately, you pay for what you use. That's no different than Japan - other than it apparently being illegal to sell unlocked phones in Japan if what someone else posted is true.
According to a SoftBank rep I spoke to yesterday, there is no law requiring phones to be locked. It is the carriers that decide to do this. The government in April said it will start moving to ban locking.
So, as far as I can discern, it is legal to sell unlocked phones, but the companies prefer not to.
---
On the issue of rates here, SB lowered its rate for the iPhone a while back and then lowered it again, making things cheaper than they were. The iPad 3G data plans could be a little lower but seem about right to me. As in the US, it would have been great if Apple had been able to negotiate an awesome deal like the sign up as you need it with no contract that they got in the US. To get a decent rate here, you must sign a two year contract. The as you go contract is pricey. Again, I just don't think Apple was in a good bargaining position to obtain a better plan, otherwise they could have actually brought about change in the mobile market here.
The company I used to work for was developing iPhone/mobile apps (flash Lite, Java). A while ago they bought an Android phone from abroad (there were no Androids yet in Japan) for development in advance of launch. I remember they would feed it one of the iPhones' SIM to make it work, so I guess the SIM lock is in the device, not the card.
The company I used to work for was developing iPhone/mobile apps (flash Lite, Java). A while ago they bought an Android phone from abroad (there were no Androids yet in Japan) for development in advance of launch. I remember they would feed it one of the iPhones' SIM to make it work, so I guess the SIM lock is in the device, not the card.
My friend @ Kyocera here in Japan said the same thing. They always buy lots of different phones for developing.
The author of this article concludes Apple had promised to provide SIM-unlocked iPads to all carriers all over the world before it decided to provide SIM-locked ones to SoftBank in Japan as an exception. But that's not the case.
You can make sure in Apple's Web sites of the 9 countries where the iPads will debut in 28-May that 3G carriers are limited in every country. In some countries the same carriers provide 3G connections to both iPhone and iPad, but in others the different set of carriers divide the two domains. This suggests that iPads mostly are SIM-locked to specific carriers and Apple doesn't assure iPad will be available for all 3G mobile carriers operating in every country.
Considering such actual situation, the author should have concluded Japan isn't an exception in the Apple's world marketing strategy.
I've read an interview article with a member of the management of Apple (I've forgotten his name) in which he described Apple's world market strategy for iPhones that the company have decided collaboration with partner carriers they choosed based on the situation in each area. I don't think any change occurred in this policy. It seems unlikely that Apple changes the policy and supplies the magical devices by unlocking SIMs even to carriers not demanding it.
It is undoubted that SoftBank loves Apple but Docomo doesn?t.
I stand by my opinion that Apple Japan could be greatly improved and that that would help Apple do better business in this country. Whether it would have helped with SIMS specifically, I'm not entirely sure, but as a general opinion, yeah, I'll stand by it.
Hey, Berg...
Are you planning on staying in Japan permanently? Buying grey market must seem pretty tempting after this news...
Fortunately, I'm certain the iPad won't be locked in HK when it's finally released here.
If not for lots of sudden expenses this year (trip to the States in July, my daughter going to secondary school in the Fall) I would have bought a 64GB grey market iPad by now, and swallowed the US$100 premium.
As things look, I may not be getting it until September... shit... maybe I should just wait for 2.0...
Comments
2. false. Nokia had been selling their devices in their B&M stores unlocked prior to pulling out. Their Vertu brand also currently sells units unlocked with no service.
no. vertu have their own network from which they buy wholesale from other carriers to service their customers. they cannot sell units without cellular service.
3. false. It is common practice for foreigners to bring phones from overseas and use a local service.
no again. prepaid kits are not available for purchase to non-residents of japan. maybe you are talking about rental prepaid kits, which are only available in narita and kansai airport. you can ditch the phone and use the simcard to your non-japanese phone, but they won't offer support to configure its settings. you are on your own.
regards,
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability? Almost all the online tech sites/blogs/mags are recommending that people go with the WiFi model plus WiMax and avoid Softbank (and the 3G model) altogether...
As late as April 28th, DoCoMo was supposed to provide the miniSIMs for the iPad in Japan (Mainichi Shimbun), so talks either broke down in early May, or Softbank made Apple an offer it couldn't refuse. In either case, users will be paying the tab for whatever lucrative option Softbank padded their contract with.
Mini SIM is the standard SIM card for phones right now. Micro SIM is what the iPad uses. This change in the SIM card plastic does not, in any way, make the iPad locked, that is done on the internal cellular HW.
Furthermore, mobile carriers not supplying Micro SIMs does not in anyway affect the ability for the iPad to take the typical Mini SIM. All you have to do is grab a pair of scissor and trim to the right size. Takes just a moment to do.
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability?
Hurting sales in one country to increase sales in another country does not affect Apple's bottom line and could hurt them in the public eye. This is the SoftBank requiring the lock, not Apple.
Are Apple being deliberately and nefariously restrictive, or not?
We decided they are not.
Urm... Who's "We"?
...I do hope [the iPhone 4G is] also unlocked like the iPad as the only option in the US would be T-Mobile on EDGE, so AT&T would be safe.
Heh. Good bl**dy luck with that mate.
PS: Bergermeister, if you want an unlocked iPad 3G just send me the money+tax+shipping and I'll send you one. No charge for my time.
Hmm.. the problem is getting a MicroSIM. Did we even debate here why MicroSIMs are used instead of regular SIMs? To prevent use in countries where the iPad is not launched? It is clearly not a design decision. I'm sure this has been discussed to death on other threads, so I'll leave it at that.
EDIT: From user rcfa in another thread:
@nvidia2008: microSIMs are just like regular SIM cards, just smaller. You can cut down your existing SIM card and put it into an adapter to put it back into a phone. It's important to remember that not that long ago SIM cards were the size of credit cards... The chip and contact surfaces however have not changed in all that time, just the empty plastic surrounding it.
Very interesting...
A SoftBank employee told me:
- SIM locking is NOT required by law, but is standard practice by the cell companies. The government in April said that the practice should be banned and they will work towards that. The problem is DoCoMo has iMode, SoftBank has its system and so on, so that while the phones might work for speech on other systems, some bigger functionality might be lost. The companies are considering how to change this. He added that it would have been best for both companies had they presented the locked situation before launch.
- SoftBank last week sent out mailings to its shops that contained basic info for them regarding the iPad; most shops won't carry it but they need to know how to handle customers. The prices listed in the mailings changed at least four times in under a week; the staff said that the shops were confused and also that it was odd that even with the extra month due to Apple's delay, SB's home office still hadn't solidified its program. He said the same thing happened with the original iPhone and the 3GS, so it is a regular thing for Apple devices, though he wasn't happy with it. He didn't know if it was changes on the part of SB, Apple or both.
- SB has a call center for the iPhone, as does Apple Japan. He said that often when a customer called the AJ center, they (the AJ CC) would call the SB center for help as the AJ CC, for some unknown reason, wasn't able to provide assistance.
- He couldn't understand the decision for SB to import the WiFi only models in addition to the 3G. He thought perhaps it was a channeling issue to simplify matters.
---
So, the law here doesn't require locking and there is movement to end the practice altogether. Apple could have been in a good position to pressure SB on this, but quite possibly they were given a firm no. From his comments about the AJ CC, it is clear that SB doesn't have a great impression of AJ's abilities, thus reaffirming my belief that Apple Japan has weakened Apple's ability to leverage deals in Japan.
PS: Bergermeister, if you want an unlocked iPad 3G just send me the money+tax+shipping and I'll send you one. No charge for my time.
Thanks for the offer but I ordered a WiFi model as that is basically all I need (for now). I will consider the 3G in the future if my wife decides she wants an iPad, too.
As late as April 28th, DoCoMo was supposed to provide the miniSIMs for the iPad in Japan (Mainichi Shimbun), so talks either broke down in early May, or Softbank made Apple an offer it couldn't refuse. In either case, users will be paying the tab for whatever lucrative option Softbank padded their contract with.
But again, could this be a way to prevent Japanese sales of the 3G model so to bolster international availability? Almost all the online tech sites/blogs/mags are recommending that people go with the WiFi model plus WiMax and avoid Softbank (and the 3G model) altogether...
I don't think anybody is actively trying to limit sales here, but I certainly don't get the impression that all parties involved are trying hard to increase sales. With a little effort, Apple sales here could be through the roof, i-devices and Mac.
http://twitpic.com/1muyp7
Internal document screenshot
"The MicroSim... and is specially manufactured for... Maxis is the first operator in Malaysia to offer this convenience... to customers who are looking forward to the best technologies and services compatible with the latest devices.
Customers are able to sign up for a Micro SIM at any of our 31 Maxis centres nationwide.
To start surfing on the Apple iPad 3G with the Maxis Micro SIM, customers may sign up either a Postpaid Mobile Data plan or a Maxis Broadband Plan:
Mobile Data
500MB RM 58 per month
1.5GB RM 78 per month
3.0GB RM 88 per month
Maxis Broadband
1.5GB RM 48 per month
3.0GB RM 68 per month
6.0GB RM 98 per month
Apple clearly hasn't sought out exclusivity in any other market.
I think this should be a warning to anyone outside of Canada and the US. This is complete bullshitt. I'm faking pissed.
Regular internet here (Hikari Flets etc) is about $60 per month. There's $30 ADSL but that's slow so that doesn't count. Then there is your wonderful SoftBank mobile phone bill of about $90 per month. There are a couple of Wi-Fi plans you can buy for example SoftBank/YahooBB HotSpot service or NTT's service. Any of them will set you back $30-$40 per month. **Note This WiFi absolutely sucks balls. It's basically only major areas like airports, train stations and some cafes. Unless you're in the core of Tokyo you'll probably have to do some good hunting. Even in Osaka it's slim pickin's.
So basically you have to pay for regular internet, city Wi-Fi, iPhone and iPad bills? Are you kidding me? These companies here in Japan need to die a fast death. They ALL suck gonads.
I think this should be a warning to anyone outside of Canada and the US. This is complete bullshitt. I'm faking pissed.
Regular internet here (Hikari Flets etc) is about $60 per month. There's $30 ADSL but that's slow so that doesn't count. Then there is your wonderful SoftBank mobile phone bill of about $90 per month. There are a couple of Wi-Fi plans you can buy for example SoftBank/YahooBB HotSpot service or NTT's service. Any of them will set you back $30-$40 per month. **Note This WiFi absolutely sucks balls. It's basically only major areas like airports, train stations and some cafes. Unless you're in the core of Tokyo you'll probably have to do some good hunting. Even in Osaka it's slim pickin's.
So basically you have to pay for regular internet, city Wi-Fi, iPhone and iPad bills? Are you kidding me? These companies here in Japan need to die a fast death. They ALL suck gonads.
That's not significantly different than anywhere else in the world. Few places (if any) have universal WiFi coverage, much less free universal WiFi coverage.
I pay for regular Internet (Cable). I pay for a home phone bill. I pay for a mobile phone bill. I have a separate fee for data usage on my mobile phone. I pay for WiFi service. and I pay for data on my iPad 3G.
Some carriers in the US offer combined plans, but ultimately, you pay for what you use. That's no different than Japan - other than it apparently being illegal to sell unlocked phones in Japan if what someone else posted is true.
Some carriers in the US offer combined plans, but ultimately, you pay for what you use. That's no different than Japan - other than it apparently being illegal to sell unlocked phones in Japan if what someone else posted is true.
According to a SoftBank rep I spoke to yesterday, there is no law requiring phones to be locked. It is the carriers that decide to do this. The government in April said it will start moving to ban locking.
So, as far as I can discern, it is legal to sell unlocked phones, but the companies prefer not to.
---
On the issue of rates here, SB lowered its rate for the iPhone a while back and then lowered it again, making things cheaper than they were. The iPad 3G data plans could be a little lower but seem about right to me. As in the US, it would have been great if Apple had been able to negotiate an awesome deal like the sign up as you need it with no contract that they got in the US. To get a decent rate here, you must sign a two year contract. The as you go contract is pricey. Again, I just don't think Apple was in a good bargaining position to obtain a better plan, otherwise they could have actually brought about change in the mobile market here.
The company I used to work for was developing iPhone/mobile apps (flash Lite, Java). A while ago they bought an Android phone from abroad (there were no Androids yet in Japan) for development in advance of launch. I remember they would feed it one of the iPhones' SIM to make it work, so I guess the SIM lock is in the device, not the card.
My friend @ Kyocera here in Japan said the same thing. They always buy lots of different phones for developing.
p.s. Sorry - don't know how to edit the title. I meant iPad not iPhone.
Seriously. I sent him an email about it and got one of his famous one-line replies this evening as follows: doug
p.s. Sorry - don't know how to edit the title. I meant iPad not iPhone.
Submit the email with MIME info to AI as a story.
You can make sure in Apple's Web sites of the 9 countries where the iPads will debut in 28-May that 3G carriers are limited in every country. In some countries the same carriers provide 3G connections to both iPhone and iPad, but in others the different set of carriers divide the two domains. This suggests that iPads mostly are SIM-locked to specific carriers and Apple doesn't assure iPad will be available for all 3G mobile carriers operating in every country.
Considering such actual situation, the author should have concluded Japan isn't an exception in the Apple's world marketing strategy.
I've read an interview article with a member of the management of Apple (I've forgotten his name) in which he described Apple's world market strategy for iPhones that the company have decided collaboration with partner carriers they choosed based on the situation in each area. I don't think any change occurred in this policy. It seems unlikely that Apple changes the policy and supplies the magical devices by unlocking SIMs even to carriers not demanding it.
It is undoubted that SoftBank loves Apple but Docomo doesn?t.
Thanks for the insult.
I stand by my opinion that Apple Japan could be greatly improved and that that would help Apple do better business in this country. Whether it would have helped with SIMS specifically, I'm not entirely sure, but as a general opinion, yeah, I'll stand by it.
Hey, Berg...
Are you planning on staying in Japan permanently? Buying grey market must seem pretty tempting after this news...
Fortunately, I'm certain the iPad won't be locked in HK when it's finally released here.
If not for lots of sudden expenses this year (trip to the States in July, my daughter going to secondary school in the Fall) I would have bought a 64GB grey market iPad by now, and swallowed the US$100 premium.
As things look, I may not be getting it until September... shit... maybe I should just wait for 2.0...