I've been sick of dealing with their s**t software since I installed 64 bit Linux in 2004.
You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?
And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.
Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.
Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.
I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."
I wrote an HTML5 test page and I was immediately confronted with one very annoying problem with the canvas tag on iPhone. In my test, once I pinched zoomed to the point where my canvas filled the iPhone screen. I could not zoom out as the canvas tag itself for some reason is unresponsive to the pinch.
You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?
Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.
Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.
You are calling solipsism a troll? You really need a realty check
What am I supposed to tremble?
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling. Don't give up on us.
We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling. Don't give up on us.
believe me I've fought off the best of the windows trolls in a mac forum for years. I get that. I was one of the few developers who switched to mac years ago, and I've had my share of BS slung at me.
But adobe shill I'm definitely not. Personally I'd rather kill off dreamweaver.
Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.
Can I get you to verify what you said, I was referring to then number of 64bit Linux users in 2004, which would have been closer to 0 then to 10 million
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.
I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."
So in saying that, don't you think they should practice what they preach before trying to force the process on others.
Wow, after reading thru 10 pages of posts, I'm spent. The verizon vs at&t threads weren't this tedious, were they?
So it's been pointed out already, this campaign smacks of desperation by Adobe. They really contradict themselves as well, at least in my view. They seem to think this is just a PR problem, when in reality it's a issue of technology and corporate strategy. Apple outlined their position in SJ's letter, but I think that was in response to rampant internet speculation based primarily on rumored comments by Steve Jobs, not so much because this is a "PR" problem.
My initial thought was, hey Adobe, how about instead of wasting money on PR and advertising, you just spend the money on fixing your software? Perhaps, though, they realized that the cost to fix their software far exceeds what they will spend on the ad campaign. Or more likely, perhaps they correctly understand that the ship has already sailed on fixing their software, at least as far as it pertains to Apple platforms.
My point here is that I believe the current performance of Flash on mobile platforms is moot. Apple's stance wrt to Flash on iPhone has more to do with Adobe's lengthy history of piss poor support for Apple's platforms and the likelihood that they will not change in this regard, as well as the sound technical reasons that have been been delineated in Apple's letter and elsewhere.
One more thing. Adobe ♥ Apple? Oh really? Maybe they ♥ Apple, but they have nothing but contempt for the MacOS, as well as Apple's customers. This much is clear, ever since they bought Macromedia, killed off all the competition, and have been raping Apple's customers by charging exorbitant prices for bloated garbageware ever since.
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
Maybe your comments were weak and unsupported and he was providing his opinions, which were more strongly supported with rational information and logically theme to his reply.
Btw understand definition of a troll
As described by Robert Bond in The International Review of Law, Computers & Technology, trolls usually exhibit a typical pattern of behavior:
In ‘The Art of Trolling’ published on the web it is suggested that ‘in Usenet usage, a “troll” is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers by, but rather a provocative posting to a news group intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a “troll” posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction or common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of the news group or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.
P.S. I did not comment on the article, since even a blind man could see that Adobe are plain silly releasing such statement and ads. Steve Jobs must have hit an artery with Adobe on this one.
Oh come on that's just ridiculous. I guess the iphone 2Ger's might be mighty pissed at no iphoneOS4 though eh. What a ridiculous premise.
To be honest I wouldn't think that owners of a 3 year-old phone would expect it to be able to implement all the features of a new OS. Those with any kind of reasonable expectations, that is.
I highly doubt adobe could hope to destroy apple with an anti trust. They should just put out a good player. End of story.
That's exactly the problem. No one in their right mind will allow Flash on their hand held platform regardless of what they say for the press. It's not just because Flash sucks, but because it undermines the platform's API. The platform becomes so totally dependent of Flash it might as well be Adobe's crappy platform. At that point Adobe can destroy your platform at will.
If Flash is so great then why did HP cancel their tablet after the great job that Adobe supposedly did on their UI? Why is Google buying BumpTop after the great job that Adobe did on their Chrome OS platform with Flash? I don't believe that Microsoft will allow Flash on their hand held platform when they already have Silver Light. That would be suicidal.
I am starting to really dislike Adobe. They are really turning into a parasite in the industry.
Comments
Why is it better?
Adobe can go f**k themselves.
I've been sick of dealing with their s**t software since I installed 64 bit Linux in 2004.
You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?
And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.
Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.
takes two to tango.
it seems solipsism can only really hang on to the idea that I might be employed by adobe.
paranoia perhaps?
perhaps what drives him to make things up...
still hasn't addressed this lie, and generally, trolls don't.
You are calling solipsism a troll?
Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.
I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."
I wrote an HTML5 test page and I was immediately confronted with one very annoying problem with the canvas tag on iPhone. In my test, once I pinched zoomed to the point where my canvas filled the iPhone screen. I could not zoom out as the canvas tag itself for some reason is unresponsive to the pinch.
You might want to ask Apple.
You are calling solipsism a troll?
It's been kinda' a special day!
.
You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?
Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.
Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.
You are calling solipsism a troll?
What am I supposed to tremble?
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
What part of Apple's letter do they not understand.
I thought Adobe had Google and HP and Palm and Nokia and Blackberry and Samsung as partners...
Why can't they leave Apple the hell alone.
Why is Adobe pestering Apple and not Microsoft? MS won't allow flash on Windows Phone 7 either.
Adobe loves Apple so much that they tried to destroy Apple with antitrust charges.
Who the hell do they think they are dealing with here...
Grow up Adobe!
I suppose Adobe doesn't like being reminded that Apple doesn't need Adobe to thrive.
I suppose Adobe doesn't like being reminded that Apple doesn't need Adobe to thrive.
I just stumbled across Adobe's next ad campaign.
What am I supposed to tremble?
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling.
I just stumbled across Adobe's next ad campaign.
You really shouldn'ta.... but I woulda'
.
We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling.
believe me I've fought off the best of the windows trolls in a mac forum for years. I get that. I was one of the few developers who switched to mac years ago, and I've had my share of BS slung at me.
But adobe shill I'm definitely not. Personally I'd rather kill off dreamweaver.
Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.
Can I get you to verify what you said, I was referring to then number of 64bit Linux users in 2004, which would have been closer to 0 then to 10 million
Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.
Indeed, people seem to miss this point
I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."
So in saying that, don't you think they should practice what they preach before trying to force the process on others.
http://clicktoflash.com/
So it's been pointed out already, this campaign smacks of desperation by Adobe. They really contradict themselves as well, at least in my view. They seem to think this is just a PR problem, when in reality it's a issue of technology and corporate strategy. Apple outlined their position in SJ's letter, but I think that was in response to rampant internet speculation based primarily on rumored comments by Steve Jobs, not so much because this is a "PR" problem.
My initial thought was, hey Adobe, how about instead of wasting money on PR and advertising, you just spend the money on fixing your software? Perhaps, though, they realized that the cost to fix their software far exceeds what they will spend on the ad campaign. Or more likely, perhaps they correctly understand that the ship has already sailed on fixing their software, at least as far as it pertains to Apple platforms.
My point here is that I believe the current performance of Flash on mobile platforms is moot. Apple's stance wrt to Flash on iPhone has more to do with Adobe's lengthy history of piss poor support for Apple's platforms and the likelihood that they will not change in this regard, as well as the sound technical reasons that have been been delineated in Apple's letter and elsewhere.
One more thing. Adobe ♥ Apple? Oh really? Maybe they ♥ Apple, but they have nothing but contempt for the MacOS, as well as Apple's customers. This much is clear, ever since they bought Macromedia, killed off all the competition, and have been raping Apple's customers by charging exorbitant prices for bloated garbageware ever since.
F$CK Adobe.
What am I supposed to tremble?
well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?
Is this the accepted way of communicating here?
Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.
Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
Maybe your comments were weak and unsupported and he was providing his opinions, which were more strongly supported with rational information and logically theme to his reply.
Btw understand definition of a troll
As described by Robert Bond in The International Review of Law, Computers & Technology, trolls usually exhibit a typical pattern of behavior:
In ‘The Art of Trolling’ published on the web it is suggested that ‘in Usenet usage, a “troll” is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers by, but rather a provocative posting to a news group intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a “troll” posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction or common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of the news group or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.
P.S. I did not comment on the article, since even a blind man could see that Adobe are plain silly releasing such statement and ads. Steve Jobs must have hit an artery with Adobe on this one.
Oh come on that's just ridiculous. I guess the iphone 2Ger's might be mighty pissed at no iphoneOS4 though eh. What a ridiculous premise.
To be honest I wouldn't think that owners of a 3 year-old phone would expect it to be able to implement all the features of a new OS. Those with any kind of reasonable expectations, that is.
http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/201...ndows-phone-7/
I highly doubt adobe could hope to destroy apple with an anti trust. They should just put out a good player. End of story.
That's exactly the problem. No one in their right mind will allow Flash on their hand held platform regardless of what they say for the press. It's not just because Flash sucks, but because it undermines the platform's API. The platform becomes so totally dependent of Flash it might as well be Adobe's crappy platform. At that point Adobe can destroy your platform at will.
If Flash is so great then why did HP cancel their tablet after the great job that Adobe supposedly did on their UI? Why is Google buying BumpTop after the great job that Adobe did on their Chrome OS platform with Flash? I don't believe that Microsoft will allow Flash on their hand held platform when they already have Silver Light. That would be suicidal.
I am starting to really dislike Adobe. They are really turning into a parasite in the industry.