Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign

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  • Reply 81 of 447
    macapfelmacapfel Posts: 516member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post


    ??? Meanwhile Steve Jobs' Disney website it chock full of FLASH.



    That's right, that's too funny! Try out this http://home.disney.co.uk/ with having clicktoflash or another flash blocker installed!
  • Reply 82 of 447
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post


    Apple loves Adobe too.



    What they don't love is anyone a creating resource hogging, battery draining lowest common denominator technology that creates a sub-par experience for the consumer.



    Agree!
  • Reply 83 of 447
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post


    NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:



    http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html



    and you were trying to say?



    My iPad has no problem with those videos. Are you sure you're not using a JooJoo?



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/khurt/4604141538/sizes/o/
  • Reply 83 of 447
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    I ♥ Adobe. But I hate it when a company forces its users to use 25 year old, buggy software



    ... besides... who exactly is Warnock etc. talking about when they say that somebody is taking people's freedom away. WTF??!!



    Apple is taking away the freedom to create??!!



    Adobe's way or no way??!!



    Give me a break, Adobe. You run your company your way and give Apple the freedom to run their company their way.



    Why didn't Adobe run an ad that informs everyone about the strengths of Flash (maybe because they couldn't).



    What a bunch of losers!
  • Reply 85 of 447
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    ... Adobe is just pounding their head against a brick wall. Apple has shut out Flash from its mobile devices. End of discussion.



    (It should be noted that most mobile technology companies also have shut out Flash. It's not just Apple.)



    Actually, none of them have shut out Flash. Flash has shut itself out by being unsuitable on mobile technology, on every mobile platform, in every mobile browser. The idea that Adobe will somehow fix this so that Flash will become ubiquitous on mobile platforms is ludicrous. They can't even support 3 non-mobile platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux) properly, so what are the chances they'll be able to properly support iPhone OS, Android, WinPhone7, WinMob, BlackBerry, Symbian, et al., in addition? The obvious conclusion is that there is zero chance. Flash is already dead and Adobe need to break out of their state of denial and prepare for the future, or they won't be part of it.
  • Reply 86 of 447
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Android 2.2 has most definitely NOT been shown to run Flash 'just fine'. A couple of tightly controlled clips show it not crashing (after others that show it exploding like the 4th of July.) Hardly a consumer ready product. Pre beta at best.

    And those clips do NOT show that it remains anything other than a battery suck.



    Frankly, Adobe is the last entity I want representing my needs, being the #1 pusher on the internet of ads and porn.



    First of all, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k



    Secondly, I asked someone to show me video it it crashing and they showed me a video of a reviewer who later posted they had hit the home button and that flash didn't crash. When the argument arose that he could be lying, the fact remained that in Android, you get a message when an app crashes, and there was no such message.



    As to your assertion that Adobe is pushing porn and ads, you had to have known how stupid this sounded when you posted it. OBVIOUSLY html5 can handle video and ads, so if Apple is pushing HTML5, by your logic, they also are pushing ads and porn. Ugh, why did I even respond to that sentence?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    Actually we need something similar to flash that is open and works with mobile devices. Since adobe was only counting the money instead of getting ready for the mobile future, then let some other technologies take it over. If Adobe can get something out this year that is not a piece of junk on mobile devices, then fine. Apple will probably allow it.



    I'm game. I fully accept any new standard that wants to step up to the plate, and that companies are willing to make an effort to make work on mobile. The fact remains, however, the web as it is today makes use of flash a lot, so ultimately a mobile device supporting it seamlessly is ideal for a "full web experience."





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Um yeah, that's pretty much exactly what's happening.

    And Flash is not 'the full internet'... its a proprietary cul de sac. The hubris of Adobe to claim that THEY define what the internet is.



    No, it isn't, and to say so means you have absolutely no grasp on how big the internet really is. A few major sites convert to html5 for the much hyped ipad launch and now the whole web is converting? Nope.



    As far as Adobe's flash being proprietary, fine, I personally don't care. If something free comes out that can replace it, that's great, so long as it actually does. My take on the whole thing is simple: If html5 was as popular as flash, I'd be the guy screaming for html5 to work on mobile devices. The fact is though, Flash is still dominant, and it will be that way for a while, especially if Adobe gets it working on Android and shows people they won't need to rebuild their websites to accommodate mobile devices.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Yeah, it'll definitely get flash, an LED flash.



    Here's hoping.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kerryb View Post


    From what I read about the flash demo on an Android phone could not be defined as "just fine" The phone was kept plugged into a power supply for the whole demo most likely to disguise Flash power drain, and there were crashes. All of this on a high end high powered device that very few phones could match in hardware specs.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k



    Show me where you see it plugged in. Now I'm not saying it ISN'T plugged in, just that it's not a valid argument since it can neither be confirmed or denied.



    What I DO know, however, is what a few people with droid incredibles have said, and that is the radio that drains the device. True of any smart phone. In other words, streaming music to your phone will drain the battery as much as streaming flash video. We just have to wait to confirm this, but I'm willing to accept its an Android fan making stuff up to keep up the hype.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macdawg75 View Post


    Right, which is why it crashes on Android 2.2...not just fine. Also, if you noticed the demo...the phone was plugged in. Personally, I like the idea that the iPhone is mobile which means I can be out and about for extended times. Suspect that Android was plugged in so the demo didn't show the battery drain. If they didn't have anything to hide, they would have shown it mobile like a phone should be.



    Perhaps that's what Adobe is considering getting into...the huge battery pak business. By a huge battery pak to keep Flash operating while you take your cell phone mobile. Would love to see that media campaign.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k lol



    It didn't crash, and like I said before to the other guy, the only video I've shown of it crashing turned out NOT to be crashing. The guy hit the home or back button or something on the tablet, and furthermore, there was no confirmation message that the app had crashed.



    CPU doesn't drain the battery like the radio does. If you're out and about with your iphone streaming internet music all day, you'll probably use the same amount of battery as streaming flash video. Probably less since you can turn the screen off, but you get my point.
  • Reply 87 of 447
    mfrydmfryd Posts: 113member
    "No company -- no matter how big or how creative -- should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."





    In other words I should be able to use GoLive for developing my web sites, and Freehand for my vector graphics



    No company should be able to tell me that I need to switch away from these popular products and start using DreamWeaver and Illustrator instead.



    I guess that Adobe is going to show the world that they mean what they say by bringing back Golive and FreeHand.





    On the other hand, perhaps Adobe really meant that only Adobe should be allowed to artificially limit creative choices?
  • Reply 88 of 447
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    Then why wont Adobe release the source code for Flash to the community so it can be reassembled into something more useful?
  • Reply 89 of 447
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Let me break it down for you,



    Adobe is publicly criticising Apple for denying people choice of content in their vision of the Internet.



    OK, you got that?



    Now if Adobe is not supporting other devices (which have nothing to do with Apple), who is denying the choice that Adobe is holding out as so important for Internet users on those other devices?



    Adobe has shot themselves in the foot with this latest stance.



    Now do you get it?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    How exactly, is adobe "denying choice"? You don't -have- to run flash. You could install click4Flash or simply uninstall the plugin. Is there an adobe "shill" sitting next to you preventing you from, excersizing choice?



  • Reply 90 of 447
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caribbean_mac View Post


    wow this must be hurting adobe



    "Take, out the papers and the Flash, er.. Trash...

    --- Or you don't get no spending' cash!

    If you don't scrub that kitchen floor,

    --- You ain't gonna rock and roll no more!



    Yakitty, Yak... Don't talk back!"



    http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/kid...es/id258120820



    .
  • Reply 91 of 447
    macapfelmacapfel Posts: 516member
    It's just a fantastic tactic of Adobe: they pretend to support flash now for the next couple of months while secretly producing a magical HTML5 tool. Before christmas they will officially kill flash, everybody will be highly relieved, love Adobe forever and purchase their new HTML5 tool like crazy.
  • Reply 92 of 447
    desarcdesarc Posts: 642member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Apple has sold 85 million iPhones and Touches to people who knew in advance those devices didn't support flash. I think the people have spoken emphatically how they feel about flash and its relevancy. We can tally up the iPad sales at the end of the year.



    Correction: Apple has sold 85 million iPhones and Touches, the vast majority of the owners don't even know what flash is, what it means to support it, or what it does. everyone posting on tech blogs needs to understand that WE are 0.01% of the people purchasing these products. i guarantee that more than 3/4ths [and probably closer to 95%] of the users have no idea why some sites that view fine on their PC don't come up on their iPhone.
  • Reply 93 of 447
    teunisteunis Posts: 23member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post


    Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?

    Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .



    Maybe you care to surf porn on the streetcar but I sure as hell don't.

    As for sites that take advantage of HTML5? Check this: http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

    Not necessarily switchers, but certainly Flash avoiders. btw, New York Times is on this list.
  • Reply 94 of 447
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,722member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adobe


    That's why we actively support technologies like HTML4, HTML5, CSS, and H.264, in addition to our own technologies."



    Adobe fought HTML5 tooth and nail, and wanted to neuter it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider


    While Apple has kept Flash off of its Web browsers...



    This is patently untrue, and AppleInsider should be ashamed of "publishing" falsehoods like this. Flash runs on any modern browser on any version of OSX, including Safari. Flash also runs on Safari for Windows.



    Typically, AI is just searching for link bait. This is just basic journalism ethics (or the lack thereof). Sam Oliver (i.e. Prince McLean, i.e. Daniel Eran Dilger) and the rest of AI "editorial staff" should know better.
  • Reply 95 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Let me break it down for you,



    Adobe is publicly criticising Apple for denying people choice of content in their vision of the Internet.



    OK, you got that?



    Now if Adobe is not supporting other devices (which have nothing to do with Apple), who is denying the choice that Adobe is holding out as so important for Internet users on those other devices?



    Adobe has shot themselves in the foot with this latest stance.



    Now do you get it?



    no. You made absolutely ZERO sense.



    I want to know exactly, how adobe is preventing me, from choosing something. What devices is adobe not supporting, and how is this relevant.?
  • Reply 96 of 447
    I find this letter as a very emotional response. However it does not address the issues as mentioned by Jobs in his letter.



    It is a mere tactic to influence the lay person (non-technical) and portray Apple as the wrong doer.



    I would have loved to see a real response point to point Jobs "Thoughts on Flash".
  • Reply 97 of 447
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tania View Post


    why is Adobe criticizing Apple for not supporting a product that doesn't exist?



    For the same reason Steve is criticising a product which does not exist.
  • Reply 98 of 447
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    no. You made absolutely ZERO sense.



    I want to know exactly, how adobe is preventing me, from choosing something. What devices is adobe not supporting, and how is this relevant.?



    Flash does not run on any smart phone to date. And why did Adobe's response not touch on each bullet Mr. Jobs addressed in his first public letter?
  • Reply 99 of 447
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post




    Adobe please quit writing your childish letters and make flash work on mobile devices.





    The 10.1 Beta is out, or will be very soon. They are working.
  • Reply 100 of 447
    The other thing here is Adobe paid a fortune to buy all the Macromedia products. They killed Freehand but Flash was supposed to be the long term cash cow. If Flash fades on the vine now that will be a bitter pill to swallow.



    The other thing is that Adobe has a formidable task in waging a public debate on this against a mind like Steve Jobs. So far its very obvious who is being more articulate here...
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