Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign

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  • Reply 121 of 447
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Apple has sold 85 million iPhones and Touches to people who knew in advance those devices didn't support flash.





    You have no way of knowing what those people knew, or didn't know.



    Your assertion is mere wishful thinking.
  • Reply 122 of 447
    fazekasfazekas Posts: 9member
    My experience with most Adobe products, Flash, Photoshop, Acrobat Pro, etc is that these apps take too long to load up, slow to render, and generally are bloated and buggy. I use a Mac Book Pro core 2 duo, and loathe when I need to use their products, so much so that I look for alternatives to their products where possible. So, when will Adobe demonstrate a working mobile version of Flash!? Honestly, I hope Flash and most Adboe products go away, that day couldn't come soon enough.
  • Reply 123 of 447
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    No is disputing adobe has been lazy, and are under pressure to produce and release a working player. But I keep hearing this thing about being "forced". Personally I see a lot of choices out there. But I'm curious about being "forced.



    Forced to what?



    What's this reference to 'forced'? There's nothing about being 'forced' in the post you quoted. Are you just inventing straw men to make points about things no one is discussing?
  • Reply 124 of 447
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    Nah, they would get nowhere with Steve.



    Steve would respond, "Drop Flash. Not a big deal."



    Adobe is just pounding their head against a brick wall. Apple has shut out Flash from its mobile devices. End of discussion.



    (It should be noted that most mobile technology companies also have shut out Flash. It's not just Apple.)



    I agree, except for your last sentence.



    Actually, hasn't Adobe been the one to shut out Flash from mobile devices by not providing any means to play Flash content on them?



    .
  • Reply 125 of 447
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    no. You made absolutely ZERO sense.



    I want to know exactly, how adobe is preventing me, from choosing something. What devices is adobe not supporting, and how is this relevant.?



    The only platform properly supported by Adobe with Flash (and even this is questionable) is Windows. On all other platforms, Flash is either unavailable or hopelessly buggy and poorly performing. They are "supporting" almost no platforms.
  • Reply 126 of 447
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post


    ??? Meanwhile Steve Jobs' Disney website it chock full of FLASH.



    Which is perfectly browsable on the iPhone/iPad. They just redirect you to a version that doesn't need flash to operate. Just like ANY decent site should do.



    The internet's content should NOT be locked in a proprietary container. I do not insist that Flash disappear from the web. I simply would like sites to stop insisting that I need it to view any of their content. Do they really want to reach me or not?
  • Reply 127 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    There are quite a few porn sites that are re encoding their content to support H.264 video playback, I'm seeing more sites support HTML5 standards. I'm just curious though, if Adobe is so desperate to prove to the world they're not a proprietary standard, and they believe in open standards, when will they release the source code for Flash so it can be tweaked by the developer community into something more useful?



    swf has been open for time. Anyone can develop their own player, in fact the compiler for actionscipt is open source.
  • Reply 128 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    The only platform properly supported by Adobe with Flash (and even this is questionable) is Windows. On all other platforms, Flash is either unavailable or hopelessly buggy and poorly performing. They are "supporting" almost no platforms.



    that isn't rue based on adobe's recent -public- beta of flash player for mac, which runs extremely well.
  • Reply 129 of 447
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atanner View Post


    I tested all my favorite flash porn sites on an ipad at the Apple store. Every one of them worked.



    Yeah... my local store has them all bookmarked, so they can easily demonstrate the....



    .
  • Reply 130 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    What's this reference to 'forced'? There's nothing about being 'forced' in the post you quoted. Are you just inventing straw men to make points about things no one is discussing?



    did you read the thread? There are several posts suggesting that adobe is against choice. So that infers, that you are being forced to do or use something. Or, if that's not what is meant, perhaps you can provide a better more detailed explanation of what is meant by adobe being against choice.



    Speaking of strawman...

  • Reply 131 of 447
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post


    That's right, that's too funny! Try out this http://home.disney.co.uk/ with having clicktoflash or another flash blocker installed!





    Runs fine. CPU at 5 -14%.



    Win 7.
  • Reply 132 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Did you read Adobe's letter?



    In it Adobe is accusing Apple of restricting people's "freedom" by not "allowing" Flash on their mobile devices, thus not enabling them the "choice" to access Flash content on the Internet.



    Did you read my open letter?



    In it I detailed my failed attempt to download Adobe's Flash Player software to an Android 1.6 device (HTC Magic) due to the platform being unsupported by Adobe.



    Now if Adobe is accusing Apple of denying people "freedom" and "choice" by not allowing the Flash Player software on iPhone OS, what's Adobe doing by not allowing the Flash Player on my Android 1.6 device?



    Aren't they denying me my "freedom" and "choice" under their own definition?



    Remember it was Adobe defining these things in their letter.



    this is your definition of choice? Really? That adobe has been working on a player it's in beta right now and that is against choice?



    Oh come on that's just ridiculous. I guess the iphone 2Ger's might be mighty pissed at no iphoneOS4 though eh. What a ridiculous premise.
  • Reply 133 of 447
    masternavmasternav Posts: 442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    no. You made absolutely ZERO sense.



    I want to know exactly, how adobe is preventing me, from choosing something. What devices is adobe not supporting, and how is this relevant.?



    So. Adobe is on the record as either opposing html 5 (early-on) or trying to emasculate it as a robust and functional open standard because they rightly recognized that it would have an impact on Flash installed base - especially if Canvas is included. Can you say passive-agressive behaviors??



    Then, Adobe has demonstrated that they cannot effectively support the installed base of Flash users, based on the feedback in their own forums around resource utilization - in most reported cases on the Mac and Linux platforms.



    Then they trot out a pre-beta builder paltform which they claim will allow developers to develop once release across all platforms - which is, I think where you get your questions.



    So the Adobe business model is to lock-in developers to their own product (Flash) and compromise any competing system, standard (open or otherwise) or toolset that would prevent them from functionally owning webdevelopment for the mobile device space. You as a developer would be wholly dependent on Adobe to maintain a proprietary, non open standard supporting toolset. Worse, your code would have an overhead of additional code that must remain in place to allow you to release across platforms. So instead of a spartan and robust application framework, you have all this additional overhead which makes it convenient to do your cross-platform dev, but, depends solely on Adobe staying out in front of multiple platform development, and gives Adobe additional control to retard platform OS development because they will set the pace of updating not the platform owners. This is where Google and Android are puzzling. They don't or haven't recognized the obvious - that while embracing Adobe's tool will help them build app space, it will adversely impact their own advancement of the OS as they become dependent on Adobe making timely updates to the tool. Therefore, once they implement, they will no longer be free to make ad hoc updates to Android as freely as they have over the last couple of years - in fact this last year, several updates during the course of the year.
  • Reply 134 of 447
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    So. Adobe is on the record as either opposing html 5 (early-on) or trying to emasculate it as a robust and functional open standard because they rightly recognized that it would have an impact on Flash installed base - especially if Canvas is included. Can you say passive-agressive behaviors??



    Then, Adobe has demonstrated that they cannot effectively support the installed base of Flash users, based on the feedback in their own forums around resource utilization - in most reported cases on the Mac and Linux platforms.



    Then they trot out a pre-beta builder paltform which they claim will allow developers to develop once release across all platforms - which is, I think where you get your questions.



    So the Adobe business model is to lock-in developers to their own product (Flash) and compromise any competing system, standard (open or otherwise) or toolset that would prevent them from functionally owning webdevelopment for the mobile device space. You as a developer would be wholly dependent on Adobe to maintain a proprietary, non open standard supporting toolset. Worse, your code would have an overhead of additional code that must remain in place to allow you to release across platforms. So instead of a spartan and robust application framework, you have all this additional overhead which makes it convenient to do your cross-platform dev, but, depends solely on Adobe staying out in front of multiple platform development, and gives Adobe additional control to retard platform OS development because they will set the pace of updating not the platform owners. This is where Google and Android are puzzling. They don't or haven't recognized the obvious - that while embracing Adobe's tool will help them build app space, it will adversely impact their own advancement of the OS as they become dependent on Adobe making timely updates to the tool.



    you seem to conveniently to have left out that adobe wasn't the only company developing well known platforms for accomplishing the same thing. Despite some claims here, adobe isn't the only development platform in town and there are other choices.



    As fr the html5 wrangling, I believe adobe isn't the only one trying to pull and tug at things during the process, I'm sure apple has some technologies they'd be pushing as well to their advantage, as anyone familiar with this process knows, it is indeed a small bit a wrangling on the part of -all- companies involved. You're just simply singling out adobe to demonize them to support your flawed stance.



    When I see some balanced stuff perhaps I'll take it a bit more seriously.
  • Reply 135 of 447
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Flash is not 'the full internet'... its a proprietary cul de sac.



    CLASS!!!
  • Reply 136 of 447
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    LOL! Good article. Things are heating up between the two companies.



    I personally see merit in both sides, but what I don't think is wise is for Steve to have dismissed flash as a possibility in the future of iphone.



    Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.



    You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.



    HMM... Seems like it would only get Flash when the devices are powerful enough to not affect the experience. Since Flash 10.1 will only work on iPhone 3GS and Nexus One level devices as a minimum, Adobe has had no real argument for Apple not including Flash yet.



    Many problems with the limitations of technology can be overcome by waiting for the technology to improve. That doesn't discount the limitations that existed before, and Adobe should recognize that.



    And the whole web doesn't have to change, just the most important bits. I don't object to having Flash on the web. I object to it being the only way to view the content. That's generally bad web design.
  • Reply 137 of 447
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    First of all, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k



    I'm game. I fully accept any new standard that wants to step up to the plate, and that companies are willing to make an effort to make work on mobile. The fact remains, however, the web as it is today makes use of flash a lot, so ultimately a mobile device supporting it seamlessly is ideal for a "full web experience."



    Well iPhone and palm etc have been around for a while. Like steve job's said, I ain't holding my breath that they can get it to work.



    If they do, no problem, I want flash on my phone and ipad if it works and is optimized. The problem with html5 is that it is not on IE yet and IE is 60% of browser traffic is not running html5. I can never design exclusively with html 5 until IE has the numbers when they release new version. This could take years.
  • Reply 138 of 447
    solarsolar Posts: 84member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Again with the porn/ad comment?







    Jeesh



    Adobe Plays the Porn Card..
  • Reply 139 of 447
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    I doubt it for mobile. It's pre-alpha quality code currently, for one device. They might put out something called a beta, but there likely won't be beta quality code this calendar year, and, again, that's just on one device. Adobe are so far behind in supporting mobile platforms that it's not possible they will ever catch up.







    You have no basis for those statements. They are mere conjecture.
  • Reply 140 of 447
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,319member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post


    Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?

    Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .



    If your browser doesn't support HTML5 it falls back to HTML4.01/XHTML1.0 versions of quite a few major sites on the Net.



    It's called serving the present and future.
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