'We have never, ever abandoned Apple,' Adobe co-founder says



  • Reply 21 of 189
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,046member
    'The lady doth protest too much.'

    Adobe: Please move along. It's getting tiresome.
  • Reply 22 of 189
    quevarquevar Posts: 101member
    I suggest everyone do the following and encourage your friends to as well:

    Uninstall Flash by moving the "Flash Player.plugin", "flashplayer.xpt", and "NP-PPC-Dir-Shockwave" out of the "/Library/Internet Plugins" folder and disable the click to flash plugin as well (if you are using it). If you ever need to load flash, open Chrome or Firefox and copy the link into there and go back to Safari when you are done. (Do the opposite if you prefer Firefox or Chrome.) This will start to encourage more web sites to move away from flash as the statistics will show fewer people having flash installed. And you'll get a more stable browsing experience.
  • Reply 23 of 189
    errerr Posts: 10member
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

    Why is everyone publishing Adobe PR pieces without questioning them?

    Face it - Adobe has never released a full version of Flash that will run on the iPhone. That's an unquestioned fact.

    The question is, were they allowed to?


    Flash can use > 100% CPU time on my Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz MBP with 3 GB of RAM. Just how in the world can it be expected to run on a 400 to 600 MHz device with less than 1/10 the RAM?

    Very simple. check this video - http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2...ng-on-android/

    Non-mobile optimized flash websites running on an android phone. 3D rendering, videos, etc. One hic-up here and there, but very very usable overall


    Adobe has been promising a version of Flash for the iPhone for 3 years and not delivered. Apple got tired of waiting. For that matter, only Android of all smart phone manufacturers is supporting Adobe - and even that support is very limited. The overwhelming majority of the smart phone market says NO FLASH.

    Android is the majority and it is getting flash.


    Apple released a well-thought out explanation of why they don't support Flash on the iPhone - and all we get from Adobe is whining and lies. How about trying to refute Jobs' comments? Show us Flash working on an iPhone. Surely Adobe knows that they can jailbreak a phone in order to show that it works.

    Yes, waste months of development time just so you can show it is possible. There is another way to showcase flash - the competition.


    Oh, and get off they hypocrisy about openness. Adobe claims that one company shouldn't control the Internet. That's Apple's entire argument. The Internet should use open standards like html 5 - not closed, proprietary ones like Flash. It's an amazing indication of how gullible they think the public is that Adobe will even try to claim the 'one company shouldn't control the internet' as an Adobe advantage.

    PLEASE stop printing Adobe press releases. How about a little analysis?

    They are both wrong. Flash was the key piece in the introduction of web 2.0 (or is it 3.0 already?). There are things you can do with flash that you can't do with HTML5, or not as well.

    And above all, Adobe makes money, not with flash (although it is a part of it), but with productivity suits. Flash bombs? It's ok, lets just make the ubber HTML5 compliant suit. And get shitloads of cash. It is THAT simple.

    And all this to avoid saying the real reason apple doesn't want flash in their platforms - if they could run flash, millions of free games and apps would be available for free, and the monopoly of their app store would end.

    PS: and before you accuse me of any kind of bias, I love apple computers. I wouldn't trade my mbp for the world, especially for working. But I'm not with Steve on this one.
  • Reply 24 of 189
    celemourncelemourn Posts: 769member
    I dislike flash in general. The main use of it on the web these days seems to be really annoying ads which hijack your screen, make noise at you with no way of turning them off, or flash (no pun intended) crap about 'One weird old trick' to lose your jelly roll. That, and as a container for video, which makes the video difficult to download and requires extra software to view it offline (VLC for example, to view .flv files). Neither of those uses have any appeal for me. From a programming standpoint, I absolutely agree with Apple's position. Crap like TransGaming's Cider, crossover, and any other type of execution environment (java used to be really bad too) generally causes way more problems than it every provides benefits, and makes for crappy, generic, horrible programs. I am a programmer, and have experience mostly on windows and unix, and just a tiny bit on Mac OS under cocoa. I would MUCH rather spend time learning to use xcode to write native apps properly than whore myself out with a half assessed program. Saving time is nice, but NOT at the huge expense of quality that generally goes with these frameworks. Heck, cross platform frameworks are generally a pain in the butt too (QT, I'm looking at YOU).

    We do NOT need programs written by lousy windows programmers who are too lazy to do things properly. The platform(s) are way better off without such garbage.

  • Reply 25 of 189

    "No, we never abandoned them. We've always ported our apps simultaneously to both platforms... There have been times when Apple has changed its strategy on hardware or on operating systems that didn?t meet our product cycle, so there have been periods of maybe six months where we didn't keep up with their latest release."

    Wow. These statements are completely untrue. Just review the facts of Adobe's product releases. For some products, like Framemaker and Premier, Adobe chose to abandon the Mac platform entirely and develop for Windows only. For other products, updates for the Mac side came many months, sometimes years after the updates for Windows. Adobe just came out with 64-bit support for CS apps on OS X a month ago!

    Yo, Adobe -- please shut up and write some great software. Compete in the marketplace, instead of acting like you have a "right" to success (without having to do the hard work of earning it). Adobe's behavior right now reminds me of students who complain that they didn't get an "A" on the test, even though they didn't do the homework.
  • Reply 26 of 189
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

    Jesus, this means the end of open Mac´s for sure now. *sobs*

    Speaking of drama.

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

    'The lady doth protest too much.'

    I can't figure out what they expect will happen from these "whine fests". There are only two things they can do. 1) Make Flash for mobile great. 2) Get partners who support Flash for mobile wholeheartedly. Granted, the 2nd requires the first but one is technological and other business maneuvering.

    If you can do that then Apple will be on th defensive and likely pressured into supporting it or risk losing business. I'd wager this is proof that Adobe isn't able to "fix" Flash for mobiles adequately. After all, we've had a public beta of Flash 10.1 for desktop OSes for months and it's still a private beta(alpha?) for Android.
  • Reply 27 of 189
    boogabooga Posts: 1,077member
    Originally Posted by err View Post

    Android is the majority and it is getting flash.

    Only the latest version of Android has been promised Flash, and most Android devices sold today aren't shipping with the latest Android. A good number can't even be upgraded to it. So 1. when Flash is more than vaporware on Android, and 2. there are a substantial number of that particular version of Android on the market you'll have a point.

    Besides, the market share numbers are very unclear right now. NPD says Android surged based on a self-reported survey. AdMob says it surged based on their ad shows-- but only AFTER they were acquired by Google. I think it's fair to say that Android isn't going the way of WebOS but it's definitely not a "majority" of anything-- it may or may not have passed Apple but it certainly hasn't passed RIM.
  • Reply 28 of 189
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,570member
    Originally Posted by Qualia View Post

    ... Reminds me of not too long ago when Adobe was blocking something regarding HTML5. ...

    Yeah, given Adobe's "activities" related to the HTML5 standard, the bit about,


    there are an awful lot of vested interests trying to influence its development.

    is priceless.
  • Reply 29 of 189
    rhyderhyde Posts: 294member
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    Ditto. Using Framemaker under Windows really sucks.
  • Reply 30 of 189
    cimcim Posts: 197member
    Didn?t Adobe pull Premiere from Mac when Apple released Final Cut?
  • Reply 31 of 189
    ilogicilogic Posts: 298member
    Wowzers!!! Talk about feeling threatened dood!
  • Reply 32 of 189
    edelbrpedelbrp Posts: 24member

    It doesn't make sense now, he said, because he isn't interested in having Flash being stuck with "design by committee."

    Umm, kay. And, it's worked well so far to have it be under the control of a single corporation.
  • Reply 33 of 189
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member

    get back to work adobe! show us you can actually do it.
  • Reply 34 of 189
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Originally Posted by CIM View Post

    Didn?t Adobe pull Premiere from Mac when Apple released Final Cut?

    Close to same time frame, yet FCP was more of an AVID competitor compared to Premier competitor. Our company used premier on mac and we were very disappointed with adobe dumping of the product. Yet when we were forced to get FCP we were happy because technology benefits and upgrades blew premier away.
  • Reply 35 of 189
    ljocampoljocampo Posts: 657member
    There really two issues with Flash.

    1. Flash doesn't work well on mobile devices. It doesn't work well on the Mac. Crashing is easy to recover from on the mac, but not on an iPhone or iPod Touch. When a mobile device crashes you almost always have to re=install the system to recover and you'll probably lose multimedia in the process.

    2. Flash, IMO, is akin to covert spyware. It collects lots of usage data and calls it home, and on a mobile phone that means it uses your data transfer quota, that has limits (CAPS), for advertisement you never asked for. It slows down data transfer to give you real annoying blinking ads. Flash uses valuable storage space on a device that can hardly afford it. Finally. Are you really sure what is being collected?

    I realize that HTML5 specs are also going to allow storing and collecting data on the device, but I trust the open source community far more than I'll ever trust Adobe, Apple, or any other corporation where the bottom line is profit.
  • Reply 36 of 189

    just pull the plug on flash, adobe, we'll all be happier, including you...
  • Reply 37 of 189
    skochanskochan Posts: 5member
    Adobe does not state the facts about PostScript and their support of open standards and competition accurately. You see, my company created a Postscript-compatible interpreter. A key font technology (Type 1 fonts) was kept encrypted and secret by Adobe until the encryption was cracked (and we were one of the first to do that). Without Type 1 font support, clones were crippled. Even Microsoft approached my company about licensing our Type 1 font technology after we had cracked it and because they too knew how valuable it was for their clone.

    I won't get into Adobe's strong arm tactics here about how they pressured our potential customers, but let's just say that I believe we lost more than one deal because of what I believed were shady business practices.

    So much for "open" technology and supporting competition.

    Setting the record straight,

    Steve Kochan

    Author, Programming in Objective-C 2.0

    Former President and CEO, Pipeline Associates, Inc.

    Creator of the PowerPage PostScript-Compatible interpreter
  • Reply 38 of 189
    cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    "He said his company knows a number of developers who want to create applications for the iPad, but are frustrated by the prospect of having to learn to write for a new device rather than sticking with one language they're already familiar with."

    BS! You can write iPhone/iPad apps in C, C++, or Objective-C. If he is implying with his statement that Apple isn't allowing C# to compile, then he needs to realize that almost all developers who write in C# started off with C++.
  • Reply 39 of 189
    stevetimstevetim Posts: 482member
    Originally Posted by CIM View Post

    Didn?t Adobe pull Premiere from Mac when Apple released Final Cut?

    It's interesting that adobe has brought premier back to mac recently ... probably as a result of mac going intel route and porting it over to mac was relatively easy. I haven't taken a serious look at it to see if it is any good.
  • Reply 40 of 189
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,205member
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

    'We have never, ever abandoned Apple,' Adobe co-founder says ... Chuck, I beg to differ ...

    i wonder if Chuck can explain why Adobe forced Carbon onto Apple and refused to make a Cocoa version until Apple finally cut them off. AND THEN it isn't a top to bottom optimized native code using a UI that organically fits with the Mac OS. but the windows version with a few lines of translator code slapped on it. just like they wanted to make their fantastic iphone apps.

    My fav quote from another Adobe was the engineer who said "Flash works great on Windows so there can't be any problems on Macs, the code is exactly the same"

    **Facepalm** major.
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