'We have never, ever abandoned Apple,' Adobe co-founder says

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  • Reply 61 of 189
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Predrag View Post


    That video is fairly impressive. There is no question about the performance. The obvious thing here is that it is indeed possible to create a Flash plug-in for a mobile device that can be efficient, lean and fast.



    That video just shows it working. It gives is no evidence of it being lean and efficient.



    Quote:

    I can see a possible scenario here. Eventually, Adobe will get the bugs worked out and it will release Flash for Android. The era of Flash on mobile will begin. As more and more people begin to experience Flash on their mobile devices, many will realise what are the TRUE problems with Flash on mobile, and it won't be performance, and perhaps not even stability.



    Performance and stability can be problem on the desktop. It's certainly a problem on mobile devices. This is why Adobe keeps pushing back Flash for mobile.



    Quote:

    There are very many web sites that have fairly elaborate Flash apps out there. These simply CANNOT be ported over to HTML-5 (HTML-5 is NOT a programming language).



    Which sites are those? If the functionality is that elaborate why could they not make a native app for the iPad?



    Quote:

    If Android audience becomes large enough, and Flash content ends up being re-coded for mouseless navigation in significant enough numbers, and if that Flash experience becomes consistently reliable, Apple might end up making a prudent business decision and allowing development of that Flash plug-in after all (with a set of conditions that would provide tight enough control over user experience quality).



    That's a whole lotta' IF's. No one is going to wait and see if all of this lines up. The world is going to move on.



    Quote:

    This whole scenario may take several years to unfold.



    Flash doesn't have years. Actually it's out of time.
  • Reply 62 of 189
    malfeitormalfeitor Posts: 22member
    That video floating around where flash is running on a Android device is missing two things. Does not show battery or power usage, which obviously means that it's plugged in the whole time. Also the clips that they run only last for a few seconds.
  • Reply 63 of 189
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Flash doesn't have years. Actually it's out of time.



    That is true. Flash no longer has years to get a proper player out. If it doesn't get done in the second half of 2010, it may be truly a serious problem.



    I think the poster you responded to, likely meant it may take time after, -if- adobe gets that player out really soon. I've always maintained that the battling, elbowing etc. is far from over, but adobe is certainly getting some humble pie for not paying closer attention to the mac platform sooner.



    Adobe needs to get that player out and on some phones playing interactive content really well well before html5 stuff starts hitting 'the streets', cause that still will take a little time. The video thing is pretty much a lost war fro adobe.



    The upside is, actionscript is virtually identical to javascript.
  • Reply 64 of 189
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    That is true. Flash no longer has years to get a proper player out. If it doesn't get done in the second half of 2010, it may be truly a serious problem.



    It's already a serious problem. Even if they release 10.1 in June, it will only run on a tiny percentage of mobile phones - so 98% of the mobile phone market won't have Flash this year.



    If they DON'T get it out during the 2nd half, game's over entirely.
  • Reply 65 of 189
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    well, I don't have crystal ball, so I can't make a prediction on where it'll be in early 2011. I'm merely a lowly web developer.
  • Reply 66 of 189
    acslater017acslater017 Posts: 424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Qualia View Post




    Honestly, I'm happy not to see apps from Flash developers flood the App Store more than it already is with junk.



    I can't wait until I can hear my iPhone telling me, "Congratulations! You've won a free iPod Nano!"
  • Reply 67 of 189
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    apparently there are already quite a few apps on the app store built in flash. I didn't know this until recently. I think they were built using the iphone packager. So, I wonder what will happen to those apps soon.
  • Reply 68 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    The question is, were they allowed to?



    They are allowed to try to develop whatever they wish. I'm sure they know how to jailbreak an iPhone. They just can't release it unless they can convince Apple that Jobs is wrong and Flash works fine on the iPhone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    Very simple. check this video - http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2...ng-on-android/



    Non-mobile optimized flash websites running on an android phone. 3D rendering, videos, etc. One hic-up here and there, but very very usable overall



    You miss the point entirely. The original poster was talking about 400-600 MHz phones. You just pointed to a video of a Nexus One which has a 1 GHz processor. NOT equal.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    Android is the majority and it is getting flash.



    The majority of Android phones won't be getting flash either. They're too slow.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    Yes, waste months of development time just so you can show it is possible. There is another way to showcase flash - the competition.



    So show Apple that it does work on the competition. Just don't try to spin it like it would have worked on any PREVIOUS generation iPhone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    They are both wrong. Flash was the key piece in the introduction of web 2.0 (or is it 3.0 already?). There are things you can do with flash that you can't do with HTML5, or not as well.



    So use Flash for those things that it can do that HTML5 can't. Just don't insist that I need Flash for just video and other simple stuff that HTML5 is fine for. And provide other ways to access simple content for those devices that can't run Flash.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    And above all, Adobe makes money, not with flash (although it is a part of it), but with productivity suits. Flash bombs? It's ok, lets just make the ubber HTML5 compliant suit. And get shitloads of cash. It is THAT simple.



    And all this to avoid saying the real reason apple doesn't want flash in their platforms - if they could run flash, millions of free games and apps would be available for free, and the monopoly of their app store would end.



    You know, there already ARE tons of completely free games and apps on the App Store. Apple cut for those apps is zero. And ALL of those millions of free Flash games and apps would have to be redone to be accessible with a touchscreen with no mouse. Do you see that happening overnight?
  • Reply 69 of 189
    rwheadonrwheadon Posts: 19member
    I keep seeing the firefox ad going through my head. ( go google "IE Whee") The NS babbler is most enjoyable in relating it to the Adobe whining.



    Just waiting for Apple to say...



    SHUT UP!
  • Reply 70 of 189
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drow_Swordsman View Post


    Why is Adobe crying so much? They are getting seriously worried about all this. I don't care either way, I don't own an iPhone/iPad but I hate flash on OSX. it is constantly crashing, slow, cpu draining, battery draining, and a hassle to deal with.



    Adobe is a pissant little company worth about 45% of Apple's cash position.



    I'm sure that, if the regulators allowed it, Apple would proceed with a hostile takeover, take control of this miserable little company, break off flash and dump the rest back to somebody for a fire sale price.
  • Reply 71 of 189
    bartfatbartfat Posts: 432member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Adobe is a pissant little company worth about 45% of Apple's cash position.



    I'm sure that, if the regulators allowed it, Apple would proceed with a hostile takeover, take control of this miserable little company, break off flash and dump the rest back to somebody for a fire sale price.



    Haha, nice. But what's to stop them from developing Flash all over again when someone picks them up? It's better to let Flash just slowly die... it's happening anyway.
  • Reply 72 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    You can't fore sure say it is only for "the latest android". If the API's are there, and the phone is good enough (and most android phones are), they might be able to support flash...



    I can't really agree that most android phones are of the Nexus One caliber. If mobile Flash is confined to 800 MHz or higher phones then a lot of Android phones will be left out in the cold.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    Won't comment on the multi-touch experience, but did you see the earlier video I posted? And the battery life problem is a myth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwWonKwVp1s - Over 3 hours of video on a flash player in a mobile phone. That's quite decent...



    Steve Jobs specifically pinpointed Flash video that uses non-H264 codecs. You know, the ones that aren't hardware accelerated in mobiles. That is what drains the battery as the software has to do the heavy lifting. Flash wrapped H264 should be alright on battery. MANY sites are re-encoding their video in H264 even if they still use Flash. This movement is a recent thing though.
  • Reply 73 of 189
    jmmxjmmx Posts: 341member
    "We have never, ever abandoned Apple"



    I think thou protesteth too much!
  • Reply 74 of 189
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,385member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sticknick View Post


    Some people may know what a Nokia 5800 XpressMusic is.



    *EVERYONE* knows what an iPhone is.



    Why compare one specific model of a phone, with the generic naming of another?
  • Reply 75 of 189
    tawilsontawilson Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by err View Post


    Android is the majority and it is getting flash.



    ROFLMAO. I haven't laughed so hard in forever. Where the hell did you get that little nugget?



    Android is distant last in smartphone sales. Android only looks close to Apple if you take the US in isolation.
  • Reply 76 of 189
    esummersesummers Posts: 893member
    I hate that Adobe is trying to turn two issues in to one.



    Apple is not allowing it in the browser (as they are all plugins) mostly for performance, memory, and usability reasons.



    Apple is not allowing them to use Flash to make apps because Apple could loose control over their own frameworks. It isn't that they want to restrict innovation of development tools or languages, they only care about the frameworks. Adobe seems to be implying that there is some sort of generic programmer out there that wants to write everything imaginable using one framework and language (and that somehow Flash is that language/framework). In reality there are different kinds of programmers out there. One programmer is good at one or two kinds of programming and that is it. If this mythical generic programmer did exist (and a few of them wielding Java probably do) they would write horrible software because they don't have the skills to write a particular type of program correctly. Cross-platform frameworks target the lowest level possible to make them cross-platform. That makes it really difficult on Apple. Say they are creating a triangle on the screen by writing each pixel individually instead of using some hardware accelerated function because that is the lowest common denominator. It is great that this "lowest common denominator" software is kept off of the AppStore. The only exceptions to this may be really heavily domain specific stuff like databases that do not simply wrap Apple's frameworks or programming languages that directly use the Objective-C runtime so that they are essentially native (like MacRuby may be if the iPhone ever adds the Garbage Collection extensions to Objective-C).
  • Reply 77 of 189
    esummersesummers Posts: 893member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bartfat View Post


    Haha, nice. But what's to stop them from developing Flash all over again when someone picks them up? It's better to let Flash just slowly die... it's happening anyway.



    I agree that if Apple did nothing, the only thing that would ever be produced would be fart apps and Apple could just deny all the apps produced with Flash instead.
  • Reply 78 of 189
    Flash will be open standard when Adobe can't make any money from it, like Postscript and PDF.
  • Reply 79 of 189
    ouroborosouroboros Posts: 82member
    It is funny that we are talking about Flash on Mobile phones when there still isn't a real version out for any portable device on the entire planet yet besides some sort of beta...
  • Reply 80 of 189
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    'We have never, ever abandoned Apple,' Adobe co-founder says ... Chuck, I beg to differ ...



    FrameMaker
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