I gotta hand it to the USA, some of you really take law enforcement seriously. At any stage this detective could have been offered a little "somethin somethin" to look the other way or "lose" certain evidence. Well, I'm living in Asia, so the affidavit: http://www.scribd.com/documents/3137...do-iPhoneOrder reads both inspirationally and even entertainingly. A film noir treatise could even be sprinkled over it.
Seriously though, it is a clear account of what happened, albeit of course from the perspective of the detective. It does make a reasonable claim to search and confiscate Jason Chen's stuff. Heavy-handed, maybe, but Jason dealt with some dodgy characters, ie. Hogan and Warner.
The interesting thing as some people have pointed out, is Brian Lam basically said to Apple, here, go get the phone from Jason, woo we all had fun, didn't we??? Yeahhhhh
Brian Lam's email was like this. Notice the last sentence. Is this sh*t really funny now?
----------------
Bruce, thanks.
Here's Jason Chen, who has the iPhone. And here's his address. You two should coordinate a time.
40726 Greystone Terrace
Fremont CA 94538
Happy to have you pick this thing up. Was burning a hole in our pockets. Just so you know, we didn't know this was stolen when we bought it. Now that we definitely know it's not some knockoff, and it really is Apple's, I'm happy to see it returned to its rightful owner.
P.S. I hope you take it easy on the kid who lost it. I don't think he loves anything more than Apple except, well, beer. Maybe some spankings.
Guys, this is the transcript of the actual email Brian Lam sent to Steve Jobs when contacted about the phone... If you haven't seen it yet. Original is on Scribd at http://www.scribd.com/documents/3137...do-iPhoneOrder
Hey Steve, this email chain is off the record on my side.
I understand the position you're in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that -- from you or apple legal -- is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc.
I get that it would hurt sales to say this is the next iphone. I have no interest in hurting sales. That does nothing to help Gizmodo or me.
Maybe Apple can say it's a lost phone, but not one that you've confirmed for production - that it is merely a test unit of sorts. Otherwise it just falls to apple legal, which serves the same purpose of confirmation. I don't want that, either.
Gizmodo lives and dies like many small companies do. We don't have access, or when we do, we get it taken away. When we get a chance to break a story, we have to go with it, or we perish. I know you like walt and pogue, and like working with them, but I think Gizmodo has more in common with old Apple than those guys do. So I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Right now, we have nothing to lose. The thing is, Apple PR has been cold to us lately. It affected my ability to do my job right at iPad launch. So we had to go outside and find our stories like this one, very aggressively.
I want to get this phone back to you ASAP. And I want to not hurt your sales when the products themselves deserve love. But I have to get this story of the missing prototype out, and how it was returned to apple, with some acknowledgement it is Apple's.
And I want to work closer with Apple, too. I'm not asking for more access-we can do our jobs with or without it-but again, this is the only way we can survive while being cut out of things. That's my position on things.
B
I don't know what the legal implications of these statements are, but finally! ... confirmed proof of what a colossal dick-head Brian Lam is.
I wouldn't talk like this to my worst client, let alone Steve Jobs.
First, you don't get to make public attacks on people like that. Second, you don't get to publicly call out who you are putting on your ignore list. You agreed to those terms when you signed up for AI forums, and I -- for one -- would appreciate the added civility that abiding by the ToS would bring to this discussion.
Am I the only one who finds that your calling someone out about calling someone else out rather humorous?
Only if you ignore the FACT that Chen initiated (or was at least integral) to brokering a deal that resulted in the purchase of stolen goods.
And as the law says, knowledge that something is stolen is not required, it is assumed if the circumstances surrounding the current ownership of the device can be considered questionable, unexpected etc.
I've already addressed this. Get your facts straight.
Second, no one accused Chen of stealing the item. They are being accused of purchasing stolen property - and there's absolutely no question that they did. The admitted it publicly.
Right there. RIGHT....THERE.
Are you kidding me? Are you actually serious? Do you want me to actually go through a month of posts to find every single person, including yourself, that has stated vehemently that Jason Chen was a thief and should be prosecuted because he is a thief?
Seriously?
Not to even bring up the fact you contradict yourself in this statement alone. A 3 sentence paragraph full of nothing but contradiction.
If Domino's tells it's drivers that they have to have the pizza delivered in 30 minutes no matter what and the driver ends up runs red lights... who gets the ticket? If he hits a pedestrian, who's going to suffer the criminal charges?
Does the driver get to argue, "I was just doing my job. Let Domino's figure out the legalities."?
Of course not.
If my boss tells me, "Be thorough, do your job," then I will... but I'm not going to break any laws to do that.
That analogy is about as ludicrous as the "Stolen Cars" analogy.
Humorlessly, I knew it would come to something like this in the end and called it.
Now everyone is tripping over themselves to redact what they said about Chen. I don't even know the guy, but everyone on this site was treating him like he had raped their dog and took a crap in their grandmother's mouth. And for what? Taking pictures of an item that in the end is going to make APPLE ton's of money anyway? Giving Apple free publicity? Finally giving people something rather than being strung along by apple for another few months?
Apple should have reported the item stolen the day it was lost (I know there are guidelines that preclude this but they aren't even on record as trying) . Hogan should have actually tried to return it. Nowhere in there should Chen not have reported on it because his BOSS told him to. potential fame or not.
Well the good news is Chen and Hogan are headed to a place where they will have a roof over their heads, 3 square meals a day and all the sex they could possibly want! Me personally, I like the circumference of my anus just the way it is...thank you very much!
Prison time is extremely unlikely. Extremely. This is white collar corporate stuff, and petty at that.
"Hey Steve, this email chain is off the record on my side.
I understand the position you're in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that -- from you or apple legal -- is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc.
I get that it would hurt sales to say this is the next iphone. I have no interest in hurting sales. That does nothing to help Gizmodo or me."
Doesn't this sound like extortion? Brian L thinks Jobs would call about a non iPhone? it is clear that Lam is trying to coerce written acknowledgement in exchange for property that he doesn't own. His responsibility is to abide by the law.
Seems that Giz and Engadget have gone completely silent on the subject. I'm guessing there is something about these revelations that are so bad from a legal perspective, the attorneys have stepped in. They are probably at the stage of trying to figure out who is going to take the fall for this.
Seems that Giz and Engadget have gone completely silent on the subject. I'm guessing there is something about these revelations that are so bad from a legal perspective, the attorneys have stepped in. They are probably at the stage of trying to figure out who is going to take the fall for this.
It's pretty incriminating stuff that's been revealed. Especially Brian Lam's email to Steve Jobs.
Grow up. The room-mate was sitting there watching this guy do something that she knew was a crime, even if he didn't. And he was doing that with her computer. So if she was silent, it would have been her crime too, when they caught up with him. And they WERE going to catch up with him. HE was betraying HER by making her an accomplice. Not that you're rational enough to have noticed.
BTW: it's astounding what you reveal of yourself in your post. You betray appalling ignorance of right and wrong in the first two sentences, and an equally appalling ignorance of everything else in the third. Capital crimes? Because it involved capitalism, I presume? Wow. Just wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus
For heaven's sake, the guy used HER computer. I'm SURE they can trace it back to her and she's smart to contact the authority to clear herself from being classified as an accomplish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN
2 questions
1. Are you 13 years old?
2. Do you know what a "capital crime" is?
Sorry for the confusion, where I come from we call these things (literally translated) capital crimes. I guess the proper english word would be a felony that doesn't involve hurting someone else physically (e.g. robbery, tax evasion, theft etc.)
Comments
Seriously though, it is a clear account of what happened, albeit of course from the perspective of the detective. It does make a reasonable claim to search and confiscate Jason Chen's stuff. Heavy-handed, maybe, but Jason dealt with some dodgy characters, ie. Hogan and Warner.
The interesting thing as some people have pointed out, is Brian Lam basically said to Apple, here, go get the phone from Jason, woo we all had fun, didn't we??? Yeahhhhh
Brian Lam's email was like this. Notice the last sentence. Is this sh*t really funny now?
----------------
Bruce, thanks.
Here's Jason Chen, who has the iPhone. And here's his address. You two should coordinate a time.
40726 Greystone Terrace
Fremont CA 94538
Happy to have you pick this thing up. Was burning a hole in our pockets. Just so you know, we didn't know this was stolen when we bought it. Now that we definitely know it's not some knockoff, and it really is Apple's, I'm happy to see it returned to its rightful owner.
P.S. I hope you take it easy on the kid who lost it. I don't think he loves anything more than Apple except, well, beer. Maybe some spankings.
----------------
Maybe some spankings.
Guys, this is the transcript of the actual email Brian Lam sent to Steve Jobs when contacted about the phone... If you haven't seen it yet. Original is on Scribd at http://www.scribd.com/documents/3137...do-iPhoneOrder
-----------------------------
From: brian lam <[email protected]>
Date: April 19, 2010 4:08:07 PM PDT
To: Steve Jobs <[email protected]>
Subject: Let's see if this goes through
Hey Steve, this email chain is off the record on my side.
I understand the position you're in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that -- from you or apple legal -- is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc.
I get that it would hurt sales to say this is the next iphone. I have no interest in hurting sales. That does nothing to help Gizmodo or me.
Maybe Apple can say it's a lost phone, but not one that you've confirmed for production - that it is merely a test unit of sorts. Otherwise it just falls to apple legal, which serves the same purpose of confirmation. I don't want that, either.
Gizmodo lives and dies like many small companies do. We don't have access, or when we do, we get it taken away. When we get a chance to break a story, we have to go with it, or we perish. I know you like walt and pogue, and like working with them, but I think Gizmodo has more in common with old Apple than those guys do. So I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Right now, we have nothing to lose. The thing is, Apple PR has been cold to us lately. It affected my ability to do my job right at iPad launch. So we had to go outside and find our stories like this one, very aggressively.
I want to get this phone back to you ASAP. And I want to not hurt your sales when the products themselves deserve love. But I have to get this story of the missing prototype out, and how it was returned to apple, with some acknowledgement it is Apple's.
And I want to work closer with Apple, too. I'm not asking for more access-we can do our jobs with or without it-but again, this is the only way we can survive while being cut out of things. That's my position on things.
B
I don't know what the legal implications of these statements are, but finally! ... confirmed proof of what a colossal dick-head Brian Lam is.
I wouldn't talk like this to my worst client, let alone Steve Jobs.
...she contacted contacted Apple...
Well, at least it's factual. She did contact Apple security twice.
Reread the AI ToS.
First, you don't get to make public attacks on people like that. Second, you don't get to publicly call out who you are putting on your ignore list. You agreed to those terms when you signed up for AI forums, and I -- for one -- would appreciate the added civility that abiding by the ToS would bring to this discussion.
Am I the only one who finds that your calling someone out about calling someone else out rather humorous?
Didn't think so.
All the facts available indicate that Chen knowingly purchased stolen property. In what state would that NOT be a crime?
Two that I can think of:
State of Denial
and
State of Delusion
Only if you ignore the FACT that Chen initiated (or was at least integral) to brokering a deal that resulted in the purchase of stolen goods.
And as the law says, knowledge that something is stolen is not required, it is assumed if the circumstances surrounding the current ownership of the device can be considered questionable, unexpected etc.
I've already addressed this. Get your facts straight.
Being a typical male bast*rd I also have to ask, is the roommate hot?
Not as hot as she would have been, had she not made the call to Apple.
I don't know what the legal implications of these statements are, but finally! ... confirmed proof of what a colossal dick-head Brian Lam is.
I wouldn't talk like this to my worst client, let alone Steve Jobs.
You blasted Jason Chen like he was a child rapist up till now. Don't try to change your story now.
I don't know what the legal implications of these statements are, but finally! ... confirmed proof of what a colossal dick-head Brian Lam is.
I wouldn't talk like this to my worst client, let alone Steve Jobs.
LOL... I'm sure the legal ramifications are huge.
Yeah, not good to talk to Steve this way. Not good mate. Only misery shall you bring down upon yerself.
Second, no one accused Chen of stealing the item. They are being accused of purchasing stolen property - and there's absolutely no question that they did. The admitted it publicly.
Right there. RIGHT....THERE.
Are you kidding me? Are you actually serious? Do you want me to actually go through a month of posts to find every single person, including yourself, that has stated vehemently that Jason Chen was a thief and should be prosecuted because he is a thief?
Seriously?
Not to even bring up the fact you contradict yourself in this statement alone. A 3 sentence paragraph full of nothing but contradiction.
Really?
REALLY?
Not as hot as she would have been, had she not made the call to Apple.
Well, maybe she's the librarian type. Mmm... Baby, I've been a bad boy and sold trade secrets... punish me
If Domino's tells it's drivers that they have to have the pizza delivered in 30 minutes no matter what and the driver ends up runs red lights... who gets the ticket? If he hits a pedestrian, who's going to suffer the criminal charges?
Does the driver get to argue, "I was just doing my job. Let Domino's figure out the legalities."?
Of course not.
If my boss tells me, "Be thorough, do your job," then I will... but I'm not going to break any laws to do that.
That analogy is about as ludicrous as the "Stolen Cars" analogy.
Humorlessly, I knew it would come to something like this in the end and called it.
Now everyone is tripping over themselves to redact what they said about Chen. I don't even know the guy, but everyone on this site was treating him like he had raped their dog and took a crap in their grandmother's mouth. And for what? Taking pictures of an item that in the end is going to make APPLE ton's of money anyway? Giving Apple free publicity? Finally giving people something rather than being strung along by apple for another few months?
Apple should have reported the item stolen the day it was lost (I know there are guidelines that preclude this but they aren't even on record as trying) . Hogan should have actually tried to return it. Nowhere in there should Chen not have reported on it because his BOSS told him to. potential fame or not.
Well, maybe she's the librarian type. Mmm... Baby, I've been a bad boy and sold trade secrets... punish me
Maybe that's why it took her so long to finally report it. She was busy....ummmm...."punishing" Hogan and Warner.....
Well the good news is Chen and Hogan are headed to a place where they will have a roof over their heads, 3 square meals a day and all the sex they could possibly want! Me personally, I like the circumference of my anus just the way it is...thank you very much!
Prison time is extremely unlikely. Extremely. This is white collar corporate stuff, and petty at that.
I understand the position you're in, and I want to help, but it conflicts with my own responsibilities to give the phone back without any confirmation that its real, from apple, officially.
Something like that -- from you or apple legal -- is a big story, that would make up for giving the phone back right away. If the phone disappears without a story to explain why it went away, and the proof it went to apple, it hurts our business. And our reputation. People will say this is a coordinated leak, etc.
I get that it would hurt sales to say this is the next iphone. I have no interest in hurting sales. That does nothing to help Gizmodo or me."
Doesn't this sound like extortion? Brian L thinks Jobs would call about a non iPhone? it is clear that Lam is trying to coerce written acknowledgement in exchange for property that he doesn't own. His responsibility is to abide by the law.
Sleezebag.
Prison time is extremely unlikely. Extremely. This is white collar corporate stuff, and petty at that.
Prison? I was talking about the Denver Colorado Oil Regulatory Office!
Seems that Giz and Engadget have gone completely silent on the subject. I'm guessing there is something about these revelations that are so bad from a legal perspective, the attorneys have stepped in. They are probably at the stage of trying to figure out who is going to take the fall for this.
It's pretty incriminating stuff that's been revealed. Especially Brian Lam's email to Steve Jobs.
Two that I can think of:
State of Denial
and
State of Delusion
A lot of AI forum participants are natural-born citizens of those two states.
Grow up. The room-mate was sitting there watching this guy do something that she knew was a crime, even if he didn't. And he was doing that with her computer. So if she was silent, it would have been her crime too, when they caught up with him. And they WERE going to catch up with him. HE was betraying HER by making her an accomplice. Not that you're rational enough to have noticed.
BTW: it's astounding what you reveal of yourself in your post. You betray appalling ignorance of right and wrong in the first two sentences, and an equally appalling ignorance of everything else in the third. Capital crimes? Because it involved capitalism, I presume? Wow. Just wow.
For heaven's sake, the guy used HER computer. I'm SURE they can trace it back to her and she's smart to contact the authority to clear herself from being classified as an accomplish.
2 questions
1. Are you 13 years old?
2. Do you know what a "capital crime" is?
Sorry for the confusion, where I come from we call these things (literally translated) capital crimes. I guess the proper english word would be a felony that doesn't involve hurting someone else physically (e.g. robbery, tax evasion, theft etc.)