Another leak from Vietnam reveals Apple's 13-inch MacBook refresh

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  • Reply 141 of 167
    superbasssuperbass Posts: 688member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post






    Yeah it sucks but would you rather Apple tries to put a dedicated GPU in there? Dell sell a lot of machines so they end up cheap, Sony are still expensive. If they could have put the 330M in the entire lineup with Core i5, that would have been great but you know they'd have to increase the prices considerably.



    Dell's 13" Inspiron has a dual Pentium for $650 with just Intel X3100 graphics. A $999 Macbook sounds way better than that.

    Their 14" Studio laptop is better with 1.6GHz Core i7 quad with Radeon 5450 for $999 but battery life is reported at 2-4 hours. 4 hours with light usage and 2 watching a movie from the HDD.



    I don't think the spec they use is a problem so much as the price. It does have 2x faster graphics and a slight CPU bump over the old one for the price but it would be nice if they adjusted their price points so that the 13" MBP started at at the $999 point and the MB was $799 or something. This way they clearly define their boundaries.



    $0-$999 = Mac Mini, iPad, iPhone, Macbook, iPod

    $999-$1999 = iMac, MBP, MBA

    $1999+ = Mac Pro, XServe



    and stick to these price boundaries no matter what. They already do I suppose but even $899 for the MB and $1099 for the entry MBP.



    Yes, if they charged in the $6-700 range, it would be fine, but $1000 for a 3-year-old processor is ridiculous. The 2.4 Ghz C2D was released in the Macbook pro in June 2007! If the next refresh happens at Xmas, this line of computers is just going to look silly in the fall.



    While the Dell you mentioned with the i7 quad gets lousy battery life, I have to wonder how, for example, an i5 running OSX instead of Windows, and with a non-removable battery would get shorter battery life than a 3-year old C2D in the same system. I'd also be interested in an i5 with integrated graphics vs. the upcoming Macbook's combo.



    i5 power consumption handily beats C2D :

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...1,2516-13.html



    and easily beats C2D in audio/video performance:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...1,2516-12.html



    and kills in in synthetic "raw power" tests:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...61,2516-9.html



    As an example, Dell put the i5 into the studio 14:



    http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/noteb...io-1450-cto4~~



    plus a 7200rpm 500 GB hard drive and 4 GB of memory, for $800.



    By saving on a half-size, slower hard drive, half as much memory, and a 3-year-old processor, I find it hard to believe Apple can justify charging $900-1000, other than a high profit margin.



    Apple is saving about $80 per machine on theoutdated processor, $40-50 on the hard drive, and $100-120 on the memory, but still charging $200 more? I know the case might be more expensive, the keyboard, the screen, but $420-450 more expensive? I'm fine with a 10-15% premium for Apple products vs PC, but a 40-50% is really pushing it. When you look globally, Apple's EU prices tend to be about 25% more expensive than in the US, while Dell's are only about 10% more expensive, and things get further magnified.



    Remember that Apple is now shipping more computers than Dell, so quantity isn't an issue, and they save a lot of money with their relatively limited number of product lines. (one the other hand they likely spend way more on advertising than Dell...).



    Anyways, I'm a very happy Apple user (happier once they back up their Cocoa talk and make Final Cut and iTunes 64-bit), but this release, if the "leak" turns out to be true, is really a head-scratcher. Or maybe they know their market and are assuming that people who buy Macbooks don't care about the internals so much...
  • Reply 142 of 167
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,582member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phoenix39 View Post


    I think a big deal would be to put people to work over here who have more pride in what is made here in American and would take better pride in their products



    Apple's products are considered by many to be overpriced now. If they manufactured in the United States, labor costs would probably be 5x higher. I don't know what percentage of the total cost of Apple's products are labor costs, but my guess, also considering the increased cost of factory construction, taxes, etc., is that they'd have to raise prices in the 30%-50% range, although on the other hand, they would save on shipping costs and they'd also probably be able to get some tax reductions from certain States looking to put people to work.



    So I don't think we're going to see any Apple factories in the U.S. But what I think Apple needs to do is to own or lease their own factories overseas so that they can manage those factories themselves in order to take control over employee salaries and safety, environmental factors, etc. Apple is not going to be able to maintain its image and branding as the company that is better and cooler than everyone else, if we continue to hear reports of exploited workers.



    In an ideal world, Apple (and other companies) would have factories around the world that produced products for their local markets. This would reduce the environmental impact of shipping and would provide economic benefits in the markets where the products are sold.



    As for this "leak", since it's just a leak about a slightly upgraded model, I couldn't care less and don't see what a big deal it is (even if it's real). Does anyone NOT think that at some point there was going to be a new MacBook with more memory? And leak or not, almost anyone with a modicum of awareness of Apple "knows" that a new iPhone will be coming in June. And wouldn't we all expect an upgraded iPad about a year from its original release date? So I refuse to believe that these recent leaks will negatively affect Apple's sales. And it's going to become increasingly hard for Mr. Jobs to generate excitement at his presentations, because everyone expects more than he's going to present anyway, especially when it comes to existing product updates. In fact, even at the iPad presentation, I thought the audience was amazingly non-responsive and that was a whole new product category.



    ---

    As for those who think that Apple doesn't go after the corporate market, certainly there are many organizations who are going to stick with $500 Dell machines, but having said that, as a consultant, I'm constantly traveling to many corporations and especially in the media and publishing industries, it's not uncommon anymore to walk onto an office floor and see hundreds of Macs. Before the iPhone, you usually only saw those Macs in design departments, but I have witnessed a large change in the last few years because once employees had the iPhone, they began to demand Macs for everything else as well. So while it might not be Apple's primary market, it's certainly a growing one.



    What I'm also seeing is among companies who are publishing apps for the iPad, the employees who have iPads for testing the app are starting to use them for email and web access as well and while the machines don't lend themselves to all office uses, I think the iPad is going to drive a lot of conversions to Mac, even though it requires one to have two machines.



    I'd love to see a full laptop where the equivalent of the iPad is the screen - you can use it as a full laptop with full keyboard, port and app capability and then you can remove the top, which is the iPad, and walk away with it. I suppose it would have to support both the Mac and iPhone/iPad OS.
  • Reply 143 of 167
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


    Yes, if they charged in the $6-700 range, it would be fine, but $1000 for a 3-year-old processor is ridiculous. The 2.4 Ghz C2D was released in the Macbook pro in June 2007!



    So, to you, it's about when the processor was first released and the marketing buzzwords that can be associated with it, not what the overall performance is, the cost for that processor or the overall experience of that system.



    So if they added the 32nm Arrandale P4500 which came out in March of this year you'd be okay with that, even though that is an $86 (per 1000 units) Celeron-class chip? I hope not. The CPU in the upcoming MB costs $209 (per 1000 units); 1/5 its retail price point.



    Quote:

    Apple is saving about $80 per machine on theoutdated processor, $40-50 on the hard drive, and $100-120 on the memory, but still charging $200 more? I know the case might be more expensive, the keyboard, the screen, but $420-450 more expensive? I'm fine with a 10-15% premium for Apple products vs PC, but a 40-50% is really pushing it. When you look globally, Apple's EU prices tend to be about 25% more expensive than in the US, while Dell's are only about 10% more expensive, and things get further magnified.



    Come on! Take an economics class. Nothing in that paragraph is remotely true.



    Quote:

    Remember that Apple is now shipping more computers than Dell, so quantity isn't an issue, and they save a lot of money with their relatively limited number of product lines. (one the other hand they likely spend way more on advertising than Dell...).



    Can you back this statement up? The last report I saw had Dell #2 and Apple #6 for worldwide PC shipments.
  • Reply 144 of 167
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,611member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


    Oh, boohoo, sorry if I hurt the guy who was bellyaching about losing money due to this leak's feelings. It's a crock of shit by a make-believe investor, and I call it like I see it.



    If you call it like you see it, consider getting your eyes checked. Your hostility is not welcomed.
  • Reply 145 of 167
    hezetationhezetation Posts: 674member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    The box may just be a leftover from current model used for convenience sake. The number of visible screws on the bottom of this thing seems very un-Applelike. It suggests prototype or testbed to me. I don't own a MacBook so can't be sure. Anybody?



    The Pros actually have 2 more screws than seen in this picture, the whole bottom cover comes off since the battery is no longer a removable accessory.
  • Reply 146 of 167
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post


    Apple, under Steve Jobs, no longer cares about the corporate market. They are a consumer products company.



    What do you suggest telling people who work in corporations and want to use Macs at work? That they are SOL? If it's ok for you to say Apple does not care about the corporate market, then it should be perfectly ok for corporate IT departments to say the same thing and use that as a reason to avoid Macs.



    Quote:

    Think about it, if you were running a company would you rather have the 50% market buying whatever you made with little changes, or the other 50% of cheap corporate customers who want computers with no hard drives, DVD drives, no memory, keyboards or mice and then expect you to support them when they install shoddy third party hardware and software in those computers and shredding those thin margins?



    If you were running a company would you rather do business with a supplier who is receptive to your needs and willing to work with you? Or a supplier that "no longer cares" about you?



    You don't get to rationalize Apple's lack of interest in the corporate market while at the same time criticize corporate IT departments that avoid Macs.
  • Reply 147 of 167
    munciemuncie Posts: 47member
    Flimsy box. I thought Apple was going unbleached eco-brown on the packaging, too.



    That said, the generally underwhelming nature of the "exclusive" makes it ring true.



    (I hope Chia doesn't get his sprouts all in a bunch for my failure to research current Apple packaging.)
  • Reply 148 of 167
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,476moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


    I have to wonder how, for example, an i5 running OSX instead of Windows, and with a non-removable battery would get shorter battery life than a 3-year old C2D in the same system.



    The i5 would require a dedicated GPU, which would draw more power - as much as 10W more. Having the feature that shuts it off when not needed helps but there's still cost, size and heat output.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


    I'd also be interested in an i5 with integrated graphics vs. the upcoming Macbook's combo.



    Intel HD graphics are terrible. I hope Apple never ship another machine with only Intel graphics inside until Intel at least read the Ladybird book on how to build a GPU that doesn't suck.



    Apple's partnership with NVidia is one of the best decisions I've seen them make in recent years. For a machine like the MBA, Intel HD graphics might be ok but not for anything else.
  • Reply 149 of 167
    edubedub Posts: 37member
    ok - just so I don't have to read this whole thread... can someone tell me what the big deal is?... I mean, is this macbook really deserving of a "leak"



    what's so unexpected about it?
  • Reply 150 of 167
    ozexigeozexige Posts: 215member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post




    <snip>



    Remember that Apple is now shipping more computers than Dell, so quantity isn't an issue, and they save a lot of money with their relatively limited number of product lines. (one the other hand they likely spend way more on advertising than Dell...).



    Anyways, I'm a very happy Apple user (happier once they back up their Cocoa talk and make Final Cut and iTunes 64-bit), but this release, if the "leak" turns out to be true, is really a head-scratcher. Or maybe they know their market and are assuming that people who buy Macbooks don't care about the internals so much...



    Well said, two very salient points there.



    Kudos
  • Reply 151 of 167
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OzExige View Post


    Well said, two very salient points there.



    Kudos



    His post is a fallacy. Dell shipped about 4 million PCs just in the US and Apple is shipping about 1.3 in the US and about 3.2 million worldwide. I don't know Dell's worldwide sales figures but it already well over Apple's sales.
  • Reply 152 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Muncie View Post


    Flimsy box. I thought Apple was going unbleached eco-brown on the packaging, too.



    That said, the generally underwhelming nature of the "exclusive" makes it ring true.



    (I hope Chia doesn't get his sprouts all in a bunch for my failure to research current Apple packaging.)



    No dude, the box is just the right kind of thickness and feel without being the environment-killing (yes, I jest, partly) huge beautiful masterpiece boxes Apple used to ship 5 years ago.



    The guy in the video was being a bit rough with opening the box, probably out of excitement, or maybe he was freaked out a little by all that hammering in the background. WTF WERE THEY BUILDING IN THERE?????
  • Reply 153 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by edub View Post


    ok - just so I don't have to read this whole thread... can someone tell me what the big deal is?... I mean, is this macbook really deserving of a "leak"



    what's so unexpected about it?



    It's nice to see the exact specs of the MacBook bump and getting the Nvidia 320M. I look forward to 12 hours from now when hopefully the MacBook is updated. This way I can pick up a good deal perhaps on a brand new unit of what will be the previous-generation model (the current MacBook).
  • Reply 154 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Your argument is tempting, as I am usually tempted to check out what is going on in the PC world. But at the end of the day I keep coming back to looking at these laptops, their poor designs for those in the "affordable" range (even Sony Vaios aren't that great nowadays), and horrible looking/feeling netbooks. Then even worse I see Windows on it.



    So I can get a $750 latest-and-greatest Dell, but, it just doesn't do it for me.



    The design, the value of OSX, being a Mac, and being Apple (you must admit it is the new trendy hipster/ status symbol)... keeps me from thinking too long about the PC world.



    The PC world has just not bothered to compete with Apple in terms of design, and they are saddled with Windows 7. Windows 7 is a decent OS compared to the fiasco of Vista, but, the UI, and applications for Windows, are still just not as smooth and unified as the Mac.



    Apple quality control and service/support through resellers has definitely gone downwards *outside* the US where there are no official Apple Stores, so that's a fly in the bitter ointment.



    But looking at the alternative in the PC world, and what kind of build quality, support and service you get there, and generating more plastic e-waste, I dunno.



    With a Mac, still, you never truly own one, you just take care of it for the next user. Your 3 year-old "super outdated low spec" Mac can still be sold second-hand. A 3 year-old PC goes straight to landfill in most cases, or perhaps you can eBay it for about $100-$200 at most...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


    Yes, if they charged in the $6-700 range, it would be fine, but $1000 for a 3-year-old processor is ridiculous. The 2.4 Ghz C2D was released in the Macbook pro in June 2007! If the next refresh happens at Xmas, this line of computers is just going to look silly in the fall.



    While the Dell you mentioned with the i7 quad gets lousy battery life, I have to wonder how, for example, an i5 running OSX instead of Windows, and with a non-removable battery would get shorter battery life than a 3-year old C2D in the same system. I'd also be interested in an i5 with integrated graphics vs. the upcoming Macbook's combo.



    i5 power consumption handily beats C2D :

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...1,2516-13.html



    and easily beats C2D in audio/video performance:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...1,2516-12.html



    and kills in in synthetic "raw power" tests:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...61,2516-9.html



    As an example, Dell put the i5 into the studio 14:



    http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/noteb...io-1450-cto4~~



    plus a 7200rpm 500 GB hard drive and 4 GB of memory, for $800.



    By saving on a half-size, slower hard drive, half as much memory, and a 3-year-old processor, I find it hard to believe Apple can justify charging $900-1000, other than a high profit margin.



    Apple is saving about $80 per machine on theoutdated processor, $40-50 on the hard drive, and $100-120 on the memory, but still charging $200 more? I know the case might be more expensive, the keyboard, the screen, but $420-450 more expensive? I'm fine with a 10-15% premium for Apple products vs PC, but a 40-50% is really pushing it. When you look globally, Apple's EU prices tend to be about 25% more expensive than in the US, while Dell's are only about 10% more expensive, and things get further magnified.



    Remember that Apple is now shipping more computers than Dell, so quantity isn't an issue, and they save a lot of money with their relatively limited number of product lines. (one the other hand they likely spend way more on advertising than Dell...).



    Anyways, I'm a very happy Apple user (happier once they back up their Cocoa talk and make Final Cut and iTunes 64-bit), but this release, if the "leak" turns out to be true, is really a head-scratcher. Or maybe they know their market and are assuming that people who buy Macbooks don't care about the internals so much...



  • Reply 155 of 167
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    Sounds like a factory is going to be losing Apple's business.



    I'm getting sick of all these leaks. I enjoy being surprised.



    Does everyone keep forgetting how Apple uses "leaks" as free P.R. Sure some like the phone are leaks, others P.R. It's been taked and written about, numerous times.
  • Reply 156 of 167
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post


    Does everyone keep forgetting how Apple uses "leaks" as free P.R. Sure some like the phone are leaks, others P.R. It's been taked and written about, numerous times.



    Being discussed and theorized is not the same as being factual.
  • Reply 157 of 167
    http://store.apple.com/jp/browse/hom...co=MTM3NTM1Nzk



    2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

    1,066MHz

    2GB (1GB SO-DIMM×2) 1,066MHz DDR3 SDRAM

    NVIDIA GeForce 320M、256MB DDR3 SDRAM

    LED display

    10 hours battery life



    a new white shark
  • Reply 158 of 167
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Being discussed and theorized is not the same as being factual.



    It's fine with me, in fact , it's brilliant. That's why places like x86 are still around as it's been proven, (fact), that more than 20% of oshack buy a real mac in time. Apple loves having the publicity plus others even admit to buying the OS and that wasI

    BEFORE the forum had the free script that allows you iintall virtualy any os now without having to edit the kext files.



    It's also a fact Time or Newsweek did

    an article in how leaks are merley FREE publicity a year or so ago.
  • Reply 159 of 167
    chiachia Posts: 710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


    I didn't call you a name. I pointed out that teaching someone to fish is different than acting like a jerk. I can see why you would infer that though.



    You made that post in response to something I had posted so there must be some relation or do you simply make random responses to random posts?
  • Reply 160 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rapapongi View Post


    http://store.apple.com/jp/browse/hom...co=MTM3NTM1Nzk



    2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

    1,066MHz

    2GB (1GB SO-DIMM×2) 1,066MHz DDR3 SDRAM

    NVIDIA GeForce 320M、256MB DDR3 SDRAM

    LED display

    10 hours battery life



    a new white shark



    BOOOYAHHHH !! Nice FIND MATE
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