For a company which claims it likes standards it still manages to avoid plenty of them. Why not just stick an actual HDMI port on the side, you know, like so many PCs have. That way consumers can use existing cables, this saving them money and bother.
I don't think I said add every port. But a typical life-span of a laptop before someone wants to upgrade it puts having HDMI out a timely choice as that's a port in your average consumers home that they can plug into their HDTV. Seems like reading the threads above Display Port isn't very adaptable as ports change and you still need to have the right hardware to even take advantage of it.
Apple often uses technology that is "destined to become the next big thing", but right now is practically useless.
We finally have audio over a high-bandwidth, future-forward PC display connection. That's sounds good to me. For an HDTV I'd rather see the AppleTV get revised, not try to turn my MBP into a makeshift media center.
People regularly hook their laptop up to the big screen and the big 5.1 channel sound system.
It happens in my house on almost a daily basis, when my kid hooks up his Dell netbook to watch music videos using You Tube et. al.
He takes it over to his friend's houses too - it is very light. Most of them (me too!) have a HDMI cable sticking out of the Home Entertainment System, ready to have any guest's device plug right in.
Unless the guest has an Apple computer, of course. Then an adapter is needed...
I can't seem to find the Apple branded adapter mentioned in the article at the apple store. Actually, it says you can buy adapters for supported video formats from Apple. I don't see any apple or non-apple MDP->HDMI cables.
Strange, they have a lot of other Apple Branded MDP adapters, but no HDMI.
People regularly hook their laptop up to the big screen and the big 5.1 channel sound system.
It happens in my house on almost a daily basis, when my kid hooks up his Dell netbook to watch music videos using You Tube et. al.
He takes it over to his friend's houses too - it is very light. Most of them (me too!) have a HDMI cable sticking out of the Home Entertainment System, ready to have any guest's device plug right in.
Unless the guest has an Apple computer, of course. Then an adapter is needed...
That's a silly, less than ideal connection. The best solution is to use a media extender appliance. Between the PS3, XBOX 360, TiVo, AppleTV, Popcorn Hour or one of any of the other devices on the market that are designed specifically for getting A/V to your TV from your LAN.
I don't want my PC indisposed simply because I have a movie on it. Why would anyone think that is a good long term solution? If you one of the few people that has chosen not to use a media extender and for whatever reason want to use your PC to transmit to your TV on a regular basis then there are solutions for you, but don' think this is norm or that Apple should include an HDMI port, S-Video and VGA, as well adapters just because it might suit your particular needs. Am I really the only one who is happen not to pay for a box full of adapters that will sit a drawer never to be used taking up space?
That's a silly, less than ideal connection. The best solution is to use a media extender appliance. Between the PS3, XBOX 360, TiVo, AppleTV, Popcorn Hour or one of any of the other devices on the market that are designed specifically for getting A/V to your TV from your LAN.
I don't want my PC indisposed simply because I have a movie on it. Why would anyone think that is a good long term solution? If you one of the few people that has chosen not to use a media extender and for whatever reason want to use your PC to transmit to your TV on a regular basis then there are solutions for you, but don' think this is norm or that Apple should include an HDMI port, S-Video and VGA, as well adapters just because it might suit your particular needs. Am I really the only one who is happen not to pay for a box full of adapters that will sit a drawer never to be used taking up space?
Don't shoot me if I mention the competition. Dell's Studio 17 (1749) laptop has a Display Port, a VGA port, and an HDMI port. Granted, a big laptop with additional real estate on each side. On the inside, there is even room for 2 HDs.
The larger MacBook Pros are rather "spendy." I believe they need to be as "capable" as possible.
Don't shoot me if I mention the competition. Dell's Studio 17 (1749) laptop has a Display Port, a VGA port, and an HDMI port. Granted, a big laptop with additional real estate on each side. On the inside, there is even room for 2 HDs.
The larger MacBook Pros are rather "spendy." I believe they need to be as "capable" as possible.
It's perfectly okay if we disagree. And I don't agree that because an device more that it should include more "ports" and whatever just to have them. I like my devices integrated. And two HDDs, it pretty easy on a large 17" machine. The 17" MBP is considerably smaller on every front. Even the 6-cell battery version of that Dell starts a half pound heavier than the 17" MBP and gets about 1/4 the battery, if I am judging Dell's battery stats correctly. There are also plenty of other things to consider, but it comes down to what options are important for you. No one OEM is going to fit everyone's needs. There are things I'd change on everything ever made to suit my specific needs better, but that doesn't mean these companies are wrong for making a product that suits their needs as a vendor.
Based on the logic that additional ports out don't cost much, they should then add every port, just to satisfy every possible customer. The fact is, DisplayPort has better throughput, more features, and is more future forward than HDMI. HDMI instead of DP limits what can be pushed to a monitor. HDMI is fine for your HDTV but it's so great for external monitors.
Imagine if Apple included every adapter and port possible. Isn't nearly everyone then getting *dinged* for paying for features they won't ever use?
Adding every port is not feasible so adding one more isn't either? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. What do you connect a computer to for display purposes? Answer: a monitor or a TV. HDMI is what every modern TV has. Being able to port video and audio to a TV from your computer is a pretty basic thing for consumers to want to do. The mini especially is perfect for an HTPC. So while adding every type of port doesn't make since, not adding HDMI makes no sense either?the two scenarios are hardly the same thing.
Adding every port is not feasible so adding one more isn't either? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. What do you connect a computer to for display purposes? Answer: a monitor or a TV. HDMI is what every modern TV has. Being able to port video and audio to a TV from your computer is a pretty basic thing for consumers to want to do. The mini especially is perfect for an HTPC. So while adding every type of port doesn't make since, not adding HDMI makes no sense either?the two scenarios are hardly the same thing.
What I keep reading is "I want to connect it to my HDTV without using an adapter so Apple should include HDMI." So why is that more important than someone that says "I want to to connect it to my old VGA monitor so Apple should include VGA." or "I want to to connect it to my phone line for dial so Apple should include RJ-11." etc?
I have seen no evidence that suggests that making a $2000 computer into a media extender that can be had for a couple hundred bucks that does a lot more is a viable and common use. I think it's great that people want their HDTV connected to a PC and the internet, but saying that Apple should include this or that to support their specific and sui generis needs makes no sense.
If I were an engineer ... What if Apple created a connector, along the lines of what the iPad uses? It could be placed on the underneath (recessed) of the machine, in the back. A port replicator could attach to it, also acting to lift the MacBook or MacBook Pro up a few inches in the back. Could help to ventilate, and maybe make typing a touch easier. Who knows?
As far as I can tell, on the other hand, port replicators for laptops are growing less common. With regard to dial up modem and VGA, that was yesterday, and should require an adaptor. HDMI is new and modern technology. IMHO, all things than connect to a computer need to attach using a wire, then the adapter. I have a USB thumb drive that stays in the back of my iMac. In some situations, it is an accident just waiting to happen. If it were to snap off, I'm screwed.
What I keep reading is "I want to connect it to my HDTV without using an adapter so Apple should include HDMI." So why is that more important than someone that says "I want to to connect it to my old VGA monitor so Apple should include VGA." or "I want to to connect it to my phone line for dial so Apple should include RJ-11." etc?
I'm not sure why you equate unrelated things. Wanting an HDMI port (ubiquitous on everything else now days) is NOT the same as wanting some outdated or specialty item that only a scant few people utilize. Wanting to connecting an OLD monitor to a modern computer is no more the same as wanting to connect a modern HD TV to a computer, than wanting to connect your ancient black and white CRT TV or a VCR is the same as wanting to connect and HD tv. Connecting your computer to an HD TV is something many, many people actually want to be able to do (and in many cases need to do), as a home user and especially in business. Your comment about adding a phone line has nothing to do with the real world. I'm not sure why to you, spending more money on a high-end computer is a reason to reduce what you can do with it. I suspect the reason there is no HDMI on macs (again, the mini screams for one) is because: 1) Jobs' marketing approach of holding back select features that other MFGs include and doling them out one drip at a time for new model's to make you want to buy a computer this year to replace the one you bought last year, and 2) he still has Apple TVs to get rid of and knows even fewer people would buy them if connecting your laptop or a mini was a little easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I have seen no evidence that suggests that making a $2000 computer into a media extender that can be had for a couple hundred bucks that does a lot more is a viable and common use. I think it's great that people want their HDTV connected to a PC and the internet, but saying that Apple should include this or that to support their specific and sui generis needs makes no sense.
Anyone who has photos, video, or multimedia presentations and wants to quickly connect their computer to a a big ol' HD TV would use HDMI. That is why you keep reading that people want to do it and is the "evidence" you see but don't acknowledge. Why should you want to buy "a media extender" (your assertion that "media extender" does a lot more is debatable) in addition to your $2000+ computer when the addition of one cheap-to-ad HDMI port would make it more feasible to do it on one device instead of needing two. The more money people spend on their computer, the happier they are when that computer does things other people can do with their less expensive computers. If you haven't seen evidence of that, you aint lookin' very hard. Let's say someone just bought an expensive Apple lap top, it's in their car and they have photos and videos on it they want to show Grandmom while visiting. With HDMI easy, without it too much of a pain. Yes, grandparents now days do have HD tvs too. How about in a business setting? The company you've been trying to set up a meeting with calls you up to give a pitch at their office. You bring your new lap top into their conference room that has a media set-up. No matter what computers they use, if they have an HD TV of some flavor in their meeting room (most do now days) if you have and HDMI out, one quick connection to an HDMI cable (they probably already have one attached to their HD TV) and you're smoothly up and running with your Keynote presentation, video, 3D walk-through, website demo, whatever. Without the HDMI output you look like a bozo trying to get your laptop connected to their HD TV or you have to ask everyone to huddle around you and do the "I can't see around the reflection on your laptop" dance." It happens every day. It is particularly important to show up with easy to use, has-all-the latest connections equipment if you happen to be in a technology oriented business, especially if your business is creating a variety multi-media presentation, like mine is.
Notice that big, ugly, hard-to-disconnect Ethernet port. Why Apple doesn't create a replacement along the lines of the MagSafe connector and open source it to the world is beyond me. A simple adapter would ensure backward compatibility in the few months before everyone rushes to this new and much more sensible standard.
The existing connector must be some 30 years old and had to have been designed to make it hard for non-IP staff to disconnect from their immovable PCs. It should have been killed off at least a decade ago.
Brilliant.
I have worked with computers (Mac and PC) for years, and the little plastic clip on the RJ45 Ethernet cable plugs seem to snap off too often. Leaving a long cord with a plug that maybe stays in, and maybe falls out, until a new cable is purchased or new plug/jack is installed.
Or... if it doesn't break off, it's because it has a plastic "shield" cover over it, about most of them being designed near to impossible to get the clip tab pressed down enough to remove the Ethernet plug.
Comments
Seriously, what did you think people were going to be using that Mini-DisplayPort for??
To plug directly into the plethora of TVs and other consumer devices that have Mini-Displayport inputs?
I don't think I said add every port. But a typical life-span of a laptop before someone wants to upgrade it puts having HDMI out a timely choice as that's a port in your average consumers home that they can plug into their HDTV. Seems like reading the threads above Display Port isn't very adaptable as ports change and you still need to have the right hardware to even take advantage of it.
Apple often uses technology that is "destined to become the next big thing", but right now is practically useless.
Case in point: HTML 5.0
We finally have audio over a high-bandwidth, future-forward PC display connection. That's sounds good to me. For an HDTV I'd rather see the AppleTV get revised, not try to turn my MBP into a makeshift media center.
People regularly hook their laptop up to the big screen and the big 5.1 channel sound system.
It happens in my house on almost a daily basis, when my kid hooks up his Dell netbook to watch music videos using You Tube et. al.
He takes it over to his friend's houses too - it is very light. Most of them (me too!) have a HDMI cable sticking out of the Home Entertainment System, ready to have any guest's device plug right in.
Unless the guest has an Apple computer, of course. Then an adapter is needed...
It happens in my house on almost a daily basis, when my kid hooks up his Dell netbook to watch music videos using You Tube et. al.
Please, tell your kids to hook up their Dell netbook to a 30" monitor and come back to tell us what happens. Thanks.
Strange, they have a lot of other Apple Branded MDP adapters, but no HDMI.
Does anyone know at what resolution the HDTV can be driven at using the mini displayport to HDMI adapter?
At the resolution your HD TV supports.
At the resolution your HD TV supports.
Wow... If true, it could drive my Sony 60" at 1920x1080! Has anyone tried this yet? Can anyone confirm this?
To plug directly into the plethora of TVs and other consumer devices that have Mini-Displayport inputs?
Lol, exactly!
Im in the tech industry and i cant name a single non-Apple display with mini-displayport or even displayport
Wow... If true, it could drive my Sony 60" at 1920x1080! Has anyone tried this yet? Can anyone confirm this?
Yeah it can do that, even the Macbook Air can do that.
It doesnt matter the size of the display, its the resolution. 1080p is no problem
People regularly hook their laptop up to the big screen and the big 5.1 channel sound system.
It happens in my house on almost a daily basis, when my kid hooks up his Dell netbook to watch music videos using You Tube et. al.
He takes it over to his friend's houses too - it is very light. Most of them (me too!) have a HDMI cable sticking out of the Home Entertainment System, ready to have any guest's device plug right in.
Unless the guest has an Apple computer, of course. Then an adapter is needed...
That's a silly, less than ideal connection. The best solution is to use a media extender appliance. Between the PS3, XBOX 360, TiVo, AppleTV, Popcorn Hour or one of any of the other devices on the market that are designed specifically for getting A/V to your TV from your LAN.
I don't want my PC indisposed simply because I have a movie on it. Why would anyone think that is a good long term solution? If you one of the few people that has chosen not to use a media extender and for whatever reason want to use your PC to transmit to your TV on a regular basis then there are solutions for you, but don' think this is norm or that Apple should include an HDMI port, S-Video and VGA, as well adapters just because it might suit your particular needs. Am I really the only one who is happen not to pay for a box full of adapters that will sit a drawer never to be used taking up space?
That's a silly, less than ideal connection. The best solution is to use a media extender appliance. Between the PS3, XBOX 360, TiVo, AppleTV, Popcorn Hour or one of any of the other devices on the market that are designed specifically for getting A/V to your TV from your LAN.
I don't want my PC indisposed simply because I have a movie on it. Why would anyone think that is a good long term solution? If you one of the few people that has chosen not to use a media extender and for whatever reason want to use your PC to transmit to your TV on a regular basis then there are solutions for you, but don' think this is norm or that Apple should include an HDMI port, S-Video and VGA, as well adapters just because it might suit your particular needs. Am I really the only one who is happen not to pay for a box full of adapters that will sit a drawer never to be used taking up space?
Don't shoot me if I mention the competition. Dell's Studio 17 (1749) laptop has a Display Port, a VGA port, and an HDMI port. Granted, a big laptop with additional real estate on each side. On the inside, there is even room for 2 HDs.
The larger MacBook Pros are rather "spendy." I believe they need to be as "capable" as possible.
Don't shoot me if I mention the competition. Dell's Studio 17 (1749) laptop has a Display Port, a VGA port, and an HDMI port. Granted, a big laptop with additional real estate on each side. On the inside, there is even room for 2 HDs.
The larger MacBook Pros are rather "spendy." I believe they need to be as "capable" as possible.
It's perfectly okay if we disagree.
Based on the logic that additional ports out don't cost much, they should then add every port, just to satisfy every possible customer. The fact is, DisplayPort has better throughput, more features, and is more future forward than HDMI. HDMI instead of DP limits what can be pushed to a monitor. HDMI is fine for your HDTV but it's so great for external monitors.
Imagine if Apple included every adapter and port possible. Isn't nearly everyone then getting *dinged* for paying for features they won't ever use?
Adding every port is not feasible so adding one more isn't either? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. What do you connect a computer to for display purposes? Answer: a monitor or a TV. HDMI is what every modern TV has. Being able to port video and audio to a TV from your computer is a pretty basic thing for consumers to want to do. The mini especially is perfect for an HTPC. So while adding every type of port doesn't make since, not adding HDMI makes no sense either?the two scenarios are hardly the same thing.
Adding every port is not feasible so adding one more isn't either? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. What do you connect a computer to for display purposes? Answer: a monitor or a TV. HDMI is what every modern TV has. Being able to port video and audio to a TV from your computer is a pretty basic thing for consumers to want to do. The mini especially is perfect for an HTPC. So while adding every type of port doesn't make since, not adding HDMI makes no sense either?the two scenarios are hardly the same thing.
What I keep reading is "I want to connect it to my HDTV without using an adapter so Apple should include HDMI." So why is that more important than someone that says "I want to to connect it to my old VGA monitor so Apple should include VGA." or "I want to to connect it to my phone line for dial so Apple should include RJ-11." etc?
I have seen no evidence that suggests that making a $2000 computer into a media extender that can be had for a couple hundred bucks that does a lot more is a viable and common use. I think it's great that people want their HDTV connected to a PC and the internet, but saying that Apple should include this or that to support their specific and sui generis needs makes no sense.
As far as I can tell, on the other hand, port replicators for laptops are growing less common. With regard to dial up modem and VGA, that was yesterday, and should require an adaptor. HDMI is new and modern technology. IMHO, all things than connect to a computer need to attach using a wire, then the adapter. I have a USB thumb drive that stays in the back of my iMac. In some situations, it is an accident just waiting to happen. If it were to snap off, I'm screwed.
What I keep reading is "I want to connect it to my HDTV without using an adapter so Apple should include HDMI." So why is that more important than someone that says "I want to to connect it to my old VGA monitor so Apple should include VGA." or "I want to to connect it to my phone line for dial so Apple should include RJ-11." etc?
I'm not sure why you equate unrelated things. Wanting an HDMI port (ubiquitous on everything else now days) is NOT the same as wanting some outdated or specialty item that only a scant few people utilize. Wanting to connecting an OLD monitor to a modern computer is no more the same as wanting to connect a modern HD TV to a computer, than wanting to connect your ancient black and white CRT TV or a VCR is the same as wanting to connect and HD tv. Connecting your computer to an HD TV is something many, many people actually want to be able to do (and in many cases need to do), as a home user and especially in business. Your comment about adding a phone line has nothing to do with the real world. I'm not sure why to you, spending more money on a high-end computer is a reason to reduce what you can do with it. I suspect the reason there is no HDMI on macs (again, the mini screams for one) is because: 1) Jobs' marketing approach of holding back select features that other MFGs include and doling them out one drip at a time for new model's to make you want to buy a computer this year to replace the one you bought last year, and 2) he still has Apple TVs to get rid of and knows even fewer people would buy them if connecting your laptop or a mini was a little easier.
I have seen no evidence that suggests that making a $2000 computer into a media extender that can be had for a couple hundred bucks that does a lot more is a viable and common use. I think it's great that people want their HDTV connected to a PC and the internet, but saying that Apple should include this or that to support their specific and sui generis needs makes no sense.
Anyone who has photos, video, or multimedia presentations and wants to quickly connect their computer to a a big ol' HD TV would use HDMI. That is why you keep reading that people want to do it and is the "evidence" you see but don't acknowledge. Why should you want to buy "a media extender" (your assertion that "media extender" does a lot more is debatable) in addition to your $2000+ computer when the addition of one cheap-to-ad HDMI port would make it more feasible to do it on one device instead of needing two. The more money people spend on their computer, the happier they are when that computer does things other people can do with their less expensive computers. If you haven't seen evidence of that, you aint lookin' very hard. Let's say someone just bought an expensive Apple lap top, it's in their car and they have photos and videos on it they want to show Grandmom while visiting. With HDMI easy, without it too much of a pain. Yes, grandparents now days do have HD tvs too. How about in a business setting? The company you've been trying to set up a meeting with calls you up to give a pitch at their office. You bring your new lap top into their conference room that has a media set-up. No matter what computers they use, if they have an HD TV of some flavor in their meeting room (most do now days) if you have and HDMI out, one quick connection to an HDMI cable (they probably already have one attached to their HD TV) and you're smoothly up and running with your Keynote presentation, video, 3D walk-through, website demo, whatever. Without the HDMI output you look like a bozo trying to get your laptop connected to their HD TV or you have to ask everyone to huddle around you and do the "I can't see around the reflection on your laptop" dance." It happens every day. It is particularly important to show up with easy to use, has-all-the latest connections equipment if you happen to be in a technology oriented business, especially if your business is creating a variety multi-media presentation, like mine is.
Notice that big, ugly, hard-to-disconnect Ethernet port. Why Apple doesn't create a replacement along the lines of the MagSafe connector and open source it to the world is beyond me. A simple adapter would ensure backward compatibility in the few months before everyone rushes to this new and much more sensible standard.
The existing connector must be some 30 years old and had to have been designed to make it hard for non-IP staff to disconnect from their immovable PCs. It should have been killed off at least a decade ago.
Brilliant.
I have worked with computers (Mac and PC) for years, and the little plastic clip on the RJ45 Ethernet cable plugs seem to snap off too often. Leaving a long cord with a plug that maybe stays in, and maybe falls out, until a new cable is purchased or new plug/jack is installed.
Or... if it doesn't break off, it's because it has a plastic "shield" cover over it, about most of them being designed near to impossible to get the clip tab pressed down enough to remove the Ethernet plug.
Yes, time for a user-friendly redesign.