Microsoft's Steve Ballmer rumored to present at Apple's WWDC 2010

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  • Reply 41 of 164
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Steve Ballmer, the chief executive of Microsoft, could play a part in rival Apple's keynote presentation at the annual Worldwide Developers Conference, according to a new rumor.

    Dressed as Pagliacci and accompanied by Glenn Close singing, "Send in the Clown." Bet it would be number one on iTunes.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vufO2...eature=related
  • Reply 42 of 164
    hardynhhardynh Posts: 20member
    Wouldn't Visual Studio for iPhone be against the terms of use? People can't right apps with Adobe's software so why let crappy apps be created with Visual Studio?
  • Reply 43 of 164
    hattighattig Posts: 830member
    If this is about Mac/iPhone development within Visual Studio (and I'm sure Microsoft have had a lot of customer queries about it) then what it means is:



    1) Adding an Objective C compiler back-end to Visual Studio

    2) Adding the Apple frameworks as a platform into VS.

    3) Presumably adding an ARM assembler and compiler as well, although it may already be there as part of Windows Mobile development.



    Apps would still use Cocoa, Core Animation, etc. It's not about porting Microsoft's runtime (of any flavour) to the iPhone or Mac, it's just about enabling another development environment to develop native Mac/iPhone apps.



    Debugging could be interesting, as it would pretty much require a fully operational set of Apple frameworks running on Windows. Never mind the incompatibilities. Maybe it will have a minimal Mac OS X install within a Virtual Machine.
  • Reply 44 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post


    Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!



    How is MS going to sell Visual Studio 2010 to Mac developers when Apple give them Xcode for free? People buy bottled water, so maybe there's hope.



    Does Xcode work on PC?



    I know there's a starter edition or something for visual studio that's free, and people can use it to write windows mobile apps. Maybe this will be the same thing.



    Either way, you iphone users need to realize this is very good news. It means a potential developer doesn't need to buy a mac to write software for the iphone (honestly, I don't know if they did to begin with) and they can write apps for you for cheap, meaning the price of the app can be low.
  • Reply 45 of 164
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    That's just a ignorant statement. So ignorant, I dont even know how to reply. I'll just say idiot and move on.



    And this is a terribly well educated answer, right
  • Reply 46 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HardyNH View Post


    Wouldn't Visual Studio for iPhone be against the terms of use? People can't right apps with Adobe's software so why let crappy apps be created with Visual Studio?



    iPhone apps aren't always "crappy apps." You should think before you speak.
  • Reply 47 of 164
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,296member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post


    There are few things MS could do to destroy the value of the firm faster than to split the Office and Windows businesses. The two units drive each others sales and have mutually preserved the monopoly possition. I can see Apple fans wanting a breakup, but a MS shareholder? If you would pay more after a split I have a lot of other investments for you. Swampland in Florida, a bridg in NY, you get the picture!



    I could care less about MSFT's success or failure, to tell you the truth, since it does not affect Apple much one way or another. So I don't think I was coming to it with any particular bias.



    The point about splitting off Windows and Office from the rest of the firm was simply because those are two innovation-less, mature cash flow businesses whose past success (and utility-like mindsets) are perhaps sucking the oxygen out of the rest of the comany's divisions. Future growth for Microsoft is going to come, if at all, from the rest of their businesses, not from these two stale, old behemoths.



    The logic for splitting up, in turn, Windows and Office from each other was motivated by the fact that it would probably get Microsoft past its unnecessary antitrust hassles. Make each one compete in the marketplace separately, and it might also make them a little more innovative and nimble.
  • Reply 48 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    edit --- and one other thought -- if this rumor is true, it's evidence that Google f****d up bad with their Android strategy. In one fail swoop they managed to turn their biggest ally into their biggest enemy's biggest ally. MS+Apple vs Google means Google loses.



    MS is still "friends" with google aren't they? Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know why I'm under that impression...



    RUH ROH
  • Reply 49 of 164
    Visual Studio 2010 on the other hand will be surprize ;-) So many consumers are waiting for this. Developers are also anxious to see what "technology changes" are coming from Microsoft with new suite of development tools. It will bo so easy now to develop some .NET parts and perhaps some ActiveX/COM funky stuff (that is what... 15 years old?).



    As development engineer for last 19 years, I still cannot get Microsoft's point of going big bang with development tools that everybody treats just as utilty to make platform work for consumer. There is no space for real innovation with those IDE's.



    I bet there will be known for years BS of: "robust application development", "quick turnaround" e.t.c. I have heard this in the beginning of '90 from the same company... when I was developing for Windows (old times .
  • Reply 50 of 164
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,945member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    So, is MS expected to be more reliable in keeping up with developments of the platforms? Apple doesn't want to, and shouldn't, allow their success to be dependent on other companies, as it was with Office and CodeWarrior. While this would open the doors to many new developers, it seems counter to their recent position.



    I agree that this is a big question, and it does seem inconsistent with Jobs' earlier comments. However, there are several reasons why Jobs might see this as different. First, MS has a much better track record than Adobe when it comes to developer tools, going all the way back to the Apple II. Second, MS has kept its promises to Apple in the past -- when Apple was at death's door, MS was there with a promise of continuing Office support (which they did) and $150 million. Third, Flash doesn't open new markets for Apple, but this really could -- there's a ton of custom, internal software that businesses write using MS development tools. If this were also combined with Silverlight support on the iPhone, then it would put Apple devices head and shoulders above both Blackberry and Android in terms of corporate users.



    And finally, remember that before Apple introduced the iPhone, Jobs went to great pains to explain why getting into the smartphone business made no sense for apple, and that people prefer devices dedicated to doing a great job at a single task rather than a general purpose device. And now we have iPads, iPhones, and hundreds of thousands of apps. Translation -- don't believe everything Steve tells you.
  • Reply 51 of 164
    delreyjonesdelreyjones Posts: 325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    If this is about Mac/iPhone development within Visual Studio (and I'm sure Microsoft have had a lot of customer queries about it) then what it means is:



    1) Adding an Objective C compiler back-end to Visual Studio

    2) Adding the Apple frameworks as a platform into VS.

    3) Presumably adding an ARM assembler and compiler as well, although it may already be there as part of Windows Mobile development.



    Apps would still use Cocoa, Core Animation, etc. It's not about porting Microsoft's runtime (of any flavour) to the iPhone or Mac, it's just about enabling another development environment to develop native Mac/iPhone apps.



    Debugging could be interesting, as it would pretty much require a fully operational set of Apple frameworks running on Windows. Never mind the incompatibilities. Maybe it will have a minimal Mac OS X install within a Virtual Machine.



    I think you got it right. And sure, while Apple likes selling a Mac to every new developer, it may be worth more to welcome established developers who are already successful using VS. If some software developer thrives in an established vertical market, and they want to enhance their product with iPhone/iPad offerings, I believe it's attractive for Apple to support them by enhancing the tool they already know as opposed to forcing them to learn a new tool.



    Anyone out there have an estimate on how much it costs to train a software developer to become expert in a new IDE such as XCode or VS?
  • Reply 52 of 164
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,620member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post


    There are few things MS could do to destroy the value of the firm faster than to split the Office and Windows businesses. The two units drive each others sales and have mutually preserved the monopoly possition. I can see Apple fans wanting a breakup, but a MS shareholder? If you would pay more after a split I have a lot of other investments for you. Swampland in Florida, a bridg in NY, you get the picture!



    On the contrary, I would say that this twin monopoly is the primary reason Microsoft lost any innovative edge that it had. I would even claim that if the two had been split as Judge Penfield Jackson wanted back in '99, Microsoft (or the daughter cos.) would be in much better shape today.



    I can see the following benefits for Microsoft:



    1. Fed antitrust watchdogs get off MS's backs. MS won't have to second guess how the DOJ will react to every move they make.



    2. The OS div will be free to update/retool Windows without having to worry about the effects on Office's monopoly position.



    3. The Office div will be free to build apps for any operating system out there: Linux, MacOS, Android, iPhoneOS, Unix, etc.



    If I had MS stock I would absolutely welcome a split. I'd own stock in two leaner, unfettered companies instead of one big fat corporation that is saddled with the burden of close fed oversight and the task of defending two innovation-sapping monopolies.
  • Reply 53 of 164
    trobertstroberts Posts: 701member
    1 - Bing will be the default search engine



    2 - Windows get an IDE for developing iPhone/iPod touch/iPad applications



    3 - Windows is getting an infrastructure that will allow Mac applications to run natively (yellowbox?)
  • Reply 54 of 164
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by esummers View Post


    When did Jobs say that? I've only heard that from Ballmer.



    Okay, my bad... or rather, my interpretive reaction to Steve's response to an e-mail where he said in regards to the question "I hope you have some good WWDC announcements to blow them out of the water? (regarding Google)



    and Steve's response "You won't be disappointed!"



    Which could be taken as 'You'll be Pleasantly Pleased!"



    But 'Pleasantly Pleased' doesn't have the same forcefulness as if you were told you are going to be WOW'd er, "You won't be disappointed!"



    So after Steve's keynote, please come back to this post and let me know...



    Were you not disappointed? Were you pleasantly pleased? Or were you Wow'd? Just out of curiosity...

    ?

    ?

    ?
  • Reply 55 of 164
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    7 minutes of Ballmer on June 7 talking about Windows 7 - 777 the new number of the beast



    More likely some sort of Office 2011 on Mac OS X demo of the release candidate build.





    What is Apple going to do when they get to OS X 10.9 - go with 10.10 or OS X 11.0 - or OS XI (sounds like a hard k followed by the word eye). Or maybe OS 11.
  • Reply 56 of 164
    I fail to see how anyone can view this as bad news. If the rumor holds true.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Does Xcode work on PC?



    I know there's a starter edition or something for visual studio that's free, and people can use it to write windows mobile apps. Maybe this will be the same thing.



    Either way, you iphone users need to realize this is very good news. It means a potential developer doesn't need to buy a mac to write software for the iphone (honestly, I don't know if they did to begin with) and they can write apps for you for cheap, meaning the price of the app can be low.



  • Reply 57 of 164
    nceencee Posts: 836member
    I think the BIG surprise here, is that this is a RUMOR, and not going to happen. But hey, they will get a nice free ride for a few days out of this one.



    Skip



    PS now if Balmer comes out, and kisses Steve's hand like in the Godfather, that might be worth the price of admission
  • Reply 58 of 164
    ilogicilogic Posts: 298member
    I'm not buying this rumor one bit.
  • Reply 59 of 164
    dempsondempson Posts: 55member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Beyond the huge shock this would be, it would also fly in the face of one of Jobs arguments against Flash. The stated concern, which I agree with, was that third party IDE's could not be counted on to keep up with advancements to the API and so devs using those environments wouldn't be able to take advantage of the newest enhancements.



    The IDE (development environment) is not the problem. Note that the developer agreement didn't specifically state that development had to be done using Xcode, just the programming language (C, C++ or Objective C).



    Apple's position is that they don't want someone else inserting a layer of code between the developer and Apple's iPhone APIs, so no interpreters, source language translators, or libraries wrapping around the iPhone APIs.



    Visual studio is already two thirds of the way there as far as the source language is concerned: it compiles C and C++.



    If this rumour is correct, the most likely scenario is Microsoft announcing that Visual Studio is adding support for Objective C and generation of code for ARM processors, and Apple will be supplying the iPhone SDK in a form which can be used with Visual Studio, including features like an iPhone simulator running on Windows. Other languages supported by Visual Studio (particularly C#) will not be supported for iPhone development.



    There could be issues with Microsoft's C/C++ runtime library code, but its source code is available, and Microsoft can liaise with Apple to address any issues. In any case, much of it would be optional, and the developer would not be forced to use a Microsoft-defined wrapper around iPhone APIs.



    I don't see any problem with this from Apple's point of view. It is just a different compiler generating code to run on the iPhone.



    Apple would lose the incentive to sell Macs to prospective iPhone developers who are currently Windows developers, but that is a relatively minor lump of money compared to the increased potential for iPhone application development, which would push further sales of the iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    So, is MS expected to be more reliable in keeping up with developments of the platforms? Apple doesn't want to, and shouldn't, allow their success to be dependent on other companies, as it was with Office and CodeWarrior.



    The situation with CodeWarrior wasn't one where Apple was "dependent" on another company. CodeWarrior was simply a better compiler and development environment than Apple's own tools, so it was more popular with developers. Apple supplied the Mac development SDKs for use with CodeWarrior.



    A bigger issue was for application developers who used CodeWarrior when the product was discontinued - they had to port their application to build with a different set of code tools and learn how to use a different IDE. (This was on top of issues around Carbon vs Cocoa.)



    Microsoft and Apple would be directly competing with the quality of code built by their compilers. If Apple supplies the SDK, Microsoft won't need to "keep up", except in generating code to make better use of future processors (which they could know well in advance, given the ARM product line is well defined).
  • Reply 60 of 164
    kerrybkerryb Posts: 270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post


    Out with Google search. In with Bing?



    As much as I dislike their TV ads i would be more inclined to Bing than google if it became the default search engine on Safari
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