Microsoft's Steve Ballmer rumored to present at Apple's WWDC 2010

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  • Reply 141 of 164
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    as it turns out the special guest speaking is not Steve Ballmer but rather Peter Boyles









    Peter Boyle died 4 yrs ago.







    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Boyle
  • Reply 142 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Saying it is, is just turning language on it's head and making nonsense of it.



    I never said it was. I said it used Java, which is. But I see your point about being locked in.
  • Reply 143 of 164
    krreagankrreagan Posts: 218member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    "Developers Developers Developers Developers"









  • Reply 144 of 164
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:

    Microsoft?s official Twitter feed:



    Steve Ballmer not speaking at Apple Dev Conf. Nor appearing on Dancing with the Stars. Nor riding in the Belmont. Just FYI.



    So, I guess there's nothing to see here and we can all move along.
  • Reply 145 of 164
    mkeathmkeath Posts: 60member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Could you clarify this a bit?



    I don't understand: "Also VS2010 owns really, really hard."



    It appears that you are saying that the iPhone development system offered by Apple could easily be incorporated into the development system (VS2010) offered by Microsoft.



    .



    As for VS2010 owning, it's just a really awesome development environment. It has a lot of developer tools that are top notch and the debugger is amazing. I can't list all of the reasons VS2010 is a really good IDE because the list could go on forever. Say what you will about Microsoft, but their developer support is unmatched in the industry.



    As for how IDEs and SDKs work, and IDE, or Integrated Development Environment, is basically a piece of software that integrates separate components, such as the compiler the debugger, the text editor, etc., into one place for the ease of the developer. XCode is an IDE, as is VS2010. Without all of the above components I mentioned, an IDE is simply a shell that could be useful. Because people are going to be using the IDE for common applications (VS2010 includes C++, C, C#, and VB development using native Windows libraries and .NET. XCode includes C, C++, and Objective-C/Cocoa using native MacOS libraries), these components come configured and installed with the IDE. Just for reference, the compilers for both Mac OS and Windows come with the OS without the IDEs. An IDE simply uses that compiler. Otherwise, a programmer can use a text editor to write the program and use the compiler through the command line to compile the file. This is true on Mac OS, Windows, and Linux/Unix.



    Now let's take a look at the iPhone OS SDK. This includes the iPhone OS compiler (different from Mac OS due to different processor architectures for the two platforms), API binaries for the iPhone, and the iPhone emulator plus some other things I probably don't know about. XCode does not have iPhone development tools installed by default. It does not know what the iPhone even is until you install the SDK. VS2010 is the exact same way with the WP7 developer tools as is Eclipse (the IDE used for Android development) for the Android SDK. When the SDK is installed, the SDK tells the IDE, "Hey here I am." The IDE then says, "Hey there you are." They will then work in harmony with each other.



    VS2010 would work this way with the iPhone SDK. The SDK components would be compiled (by Apple) so that Windows can see and use them, and it would integrate with VS2010 much like how it already integrates with XCode. It's as simple as that. If you're still confused, think of an SDK as a plugin, much like AdBlock is with Firefox and take my word for it.



    Also, to illustrate how good VS2010 is, a friend of mine who is an avid Linux user who hates Windows basically gushed to me how good Visual Studio is when he had to use it for an assignment. This guy does not like Windows or any Microsoft software, but he absolutely loved Visual Studio. I would not worry about it since the tools that actually build the binaries are controlled by Apple. VS is simply how the programmer interfaces with those tools.
  • Reply 146 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    That's just a ignorant statement. So ignorant, I dont even know how to reply. I'll just say idiot and move on.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by livings124


    This whole thing is a bad rumor. Apple isn't hurting for developers by a long shot, and right now all developers need to buy a Mac. As usual, garbage from an "analyst".



    Are you kidding me. It's already been proven the analyst was talking out of his/her ass. I stand by my statement 100%. People right now are switching to Mac to become developers. And that's without going into the issues of porting Objecttive-C development to windows (which are massive). So in conclusion, BlackSummerNight = idiot.
  • Reply 147 of 164
    asherianasherian Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Silverlight is not an open standard. BOOM!



    Actually, C# and .NET are open standards. They are both ECMA and ISO standards.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework

    Quote:

    Microsoft submitted the specifications for the Common Language Infrastructure (which includes the core class libraries, Common Type System, and the Common Intermediate Language),[6][7][8] the C# language,[9] and the C++/CLI language[10] to both ECMA and the ISO, making them available as open standards. This makes it possible for third parties to create compatible implementations of the framework and its languages on other platforms.



    Silverlight implements a subset of .NET, commonly using C#. This is how we have things such as the Moonlight project for alternative versions of the runtime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_(runtime)



    Edit: The fact that MS' environment of the future (C#/.NET) is an open standard while Apple's environment of the future (Objective-C/Cocoa) is not an open standard is something I never see people discuss. Given Apple's pro-open standard PR lately, it seems like something valid to bring up.
  • Reply 148 of 164
    bregaladbregalad Posts: 816member
    If Balmer does appear on stage the symbolism would be awesome:



    - a fat sweaty man prone to raising his voice representing a company that has grown fat, lazy and out of touch, and is increasingly frustrated with their lack of success in new markets.

    - a thin man who speaks softly representing a company that has remained lean and hungry even as it claims ever more victories in the market
  • Reply 149 of 164
  • Reply 150 of 164
    oc4theooc4theo Posts: 294member
    Barron's is not a rumor mill. If it is reported by them, then it must be true.



    That will be the biggest surprise of the decade from Apple. Bing is coming to iPhone. Google is out with its big mouth and theft of trade secrets. They deserve to be shoved out of the Apple neighborhood.
  • Reply 151 of 164
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member
    @ Dick Applebaum:

    "Now, to the more interesting question: Why would Apple and Microsoft agree to do this?

    The simple answer, is that: Apple and Microsoft need each other!"



    Wrong. Apple needs Microsoft to continue failing in the mobile space.



    And, in case you haven't noticed yet. the rumor turned out to be false.

    Ballmer won't be on stage at WWDC this year. Surprise.
  • Reply 152 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by livings124 View Post


    Are you kidding me. It's already been proven the analyst was talking out of his/her ass. I stand by my statement 100%. People right now are switching to Mac to become developers. And that's without going into the issues of porting Objecttive-C development to windows (which are massive). So in conclusion, BlackSummerNight = idiot.



    you know, with everyone calling each other idiots around here it really destroys the illusion that we're all geniuses who know what we're talking about.



    Seriously, you guys are name calling over a rumor about Steve Ballmer. Ridiculous.
  • Reply 153 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    If Balmer does appear on stage the symbolism would be awesome:



    - a fat sweaty man prone to raising his voice representing a company that has grown fat, lazy and out of touch, and is increasingly frustrated with their lack of success in new markets.

    - a thin man who speaks softly representing a company that has remained lean and hungry even as it claims ever more victories in the market



    Even further, Apple, just like Jobs, was very weak and considered almost dead not too long ago.
  • Reply 154 of 164
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,520member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    @ Dick Applebaum:

    "Now, to the more interesting question: Why would Apple and Microsoft agree to do this?

    The simple answer, is that: Apple and Microsoft need each other!"



    Wrong. Apple needs Microsoft to continue failing in the mobile space.



    And, in case you haven't noticed yet. the rumor turned out to be false.

    Ballmer won't be on stage at WWDC this year. Surprise.



    In case you hadn't noticed, my post begins:



    "If Balmer presents at WWDC..."



    The thing that you fail to realize is that by cooperating, Apple and Microsoft could, both, maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses... and exploit an opportunity, to their mutual benefit.





    The denial post also mentioned:



    Quote:

    The Twitter post does not address the other part of Chowdhry's claim: that Microsoft's Visual Studio 2010 will allow developers to write applications for Apple's iPhone OS -- including the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad -- as well as software for the Mac OS X operating system.



    Surprise!



    Microsoft failing in the mobile space is, likely, more beneficial to Android or Palm who can gather the low-hanging fruit to establish a larger install base.



    .
  • Reply 155 of 164
    rnp1rnp1 Posts: 175member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Actually, yes.



    Satan used to be God's right-hand man before they had a falling out and he started his own concern on a lower floor.



    I believe you were referring to the once angelic guitar player, Lucifer!

    He thought he could play better and cooler solos-NOT!
  • Reply 156 of 164
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cheops2006 View Post


    This is what is happening

    http://www.betanews.com/article/Micr...arb/1259185079



    Unlikely. Apple would kill for keeping only QT stack and JavaScriptCore (aka ``HTML5'' on AI board ) on their platforms.
  • Reply 157 of 164
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Apple probably has some secret Xcode Windows porting tool that they use for iTunes and Safari. If they released that IDE, maybe someday all Windows software will be "Made on Mac".



    from what i read about itunes and safari on windows (never used it myself), i don't think that would be something to brag about...
  • Reply 158 of 164
    bullheadbullhead Posts: 493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Actually you can program silverlight with a number of different languages. It's not locked into some proprietary Microsoft language. It's just an alternative to flash that suits some people better, that's all.



    What do you think Apple's flash alternative will be? Once you start using it, you'll be locked in. It's the way these kinds of products work.



    Either way the odds of Apple suddenly supporting silverlight and not flash in the iphone OS are absolutely slim to none



    Yeah, you can program Microsoft Silverlight in any proprietary, patent encumbered, Microsoft language you would like. Yes, it is Microsoft's proprietary, patent encumbered, clone of Flash.



    Apple does not have a flash alternative per say....the wc3 does in the form of an open standard called HTML and CSS, along with the open standard ECMA standard of Javascript.
  • Reply 159 of 164
    bullheadbullhead Posts: 493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Asherian View Post


    Actually, C# and .NET are open standards. They are both ECMA and ISO standards.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework





    Silverlight implements a subset of .NET, commonly using C#. This is how we have things such as the Moonlight project for alternative versions of the runtime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_(runtime)



    Edit: The fact that MS' environment of the future (C#/.NET) is an open standard while Apple's environment of the future (Objective-C/Cocoa) is not an open standard is something I never see people discuss. Given Apple's pro-open standard PR lately, it seems like something valid to bring up.



    The problem is C# and .NET are _NOT_ open standards. They are proprietary technologies controlled by a single vendor...Microsoft. A real open standards is controlled by a vendor neutral standards body like Oasis or WC3. ISO used to be a solid standards organization until Microsoft bribed and stacked committees to get their proprietary, patent encumbered MSOOXML format pushed through.



    Furthermore, to do anything with Silverlight or .net you need all the proprietary libraries Microsoft has. Basically it is a one way street. Sure you can develop using the faux standards, but you can not do anything or ever run something developed with Microsofts tools on a non Microsoft implementation. But you can go the other way. Basically the same trap they used back on Java.



    Moonlight does not run 90% of the Silverlight content out there. How can it, when all the meat of Silverlight is a proprietary, patent encumbered Microsoft technology?
  • Reply 160 of 164
    dempsondempson Posts: 55member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post




    David Empson wrote: "A bigger issue was for application developers who used CodeWarrior when the product was discontinued - they had to port their application to build with a different set of code tools and learn how to use a different IDE. (This was on top of issues around Carbon vs Cocoa.)"



    This latter point was exactly the problem with CodeWarrior. It offered an alternate framework that interfered with adoption of native Cocoa APIs. It was a layer between developers and the OS that defined the platform rather than Apple being free to define it. (Sound familiar?) Once Apple made the move to OS X, CodeWarrior had to die so Mac OS X could prosper. Developers had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.



    That wasn't CodeWarrior, exactly. You are thinking of PowerPlant, which was an application framework included with CodeWarrior. I agree that PowerPlant was a significant issue for moving an application to a different framework (Cocoa), and Apple is not going to support anything similar on the iPhone.



    I was talking about the general use of CodeWarrior to develop Mac applications using the Mac OS API, without using a framework like PowerPlant. This is what I would expect to see if Apple decided to allow other Visual Studio to develop iPhone applications.



    I do not see any problem with a different C/C++/ObjC compiler being used to develop iPhone applications, as long as there are no API overlaying libraries involved.
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