Microsoft's Steve Ballmer rumored to present at Apple's WWDC 2010

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  • Reply 121 of 164
    huntercrhuntercr Posts: 140member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    This would be a terribly short sighted deal for Apple. Apple should keep Microsoft as far away as possible. Only bad things happen when Microsoft gets close in, just look at Apples's history of close deals with Microsoft.



    huh? I think you're not seeing what this is. Apple will embrace this with open arms if its true.

    It's providing a development platform for iPhone/iPad on Windows with Microsoft's official blessing. It can only work to Apple's advantage. there's no downside.



    Look... development systems don't require beefy hardware like they used to 10 years ago. Now basically your lowest end system can develop for iPhone/iPad. It's become a commodity.



    The only thing is there is a psychological barrier to some developers, especially those used to Visual Studio. ( Remember folks, not all developers were CS majors in college and have a hard time with change )



    So if it is true about Visual C++, then Apple gets the immediate win of:

    1) giving developers their crutch of sticking with the same platform

    2) giving developers and even lower entry point with commodity hardware that the Windows/x86 platform offers



    They also gain these valuable side effects:



    3) Much larger development force ( especially in the corporate world where people are uneasy about change )

    4) simplifying porting of existing applications from a predominantly Windows world

    5) exposing Windows developers to Apple development itself encouraging future OS X development possibilities
  • Reply 122 of 164
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post


    Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!



    How is MS going to sell Visual Studio 2010 to Mac developers when Apple give them Xcode for free? People buy bottled water, so maybe there's hope.



    It's probably not aimed towards Mac developers, but towards PC developers that would like to compile for the Mac platform without learning Xcode.
  • Reply 123 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    This?



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._gianduia.html



    According to the article, it's entirely HTML5 based. It's a terrible thing, being "locked-in" to open stadards.



    Guess I remembered it wrong.



    Java is considered an open standard isn't it? Silverlight works with Java. BOOM
  • Reply 124 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by huntercr View Post


    5) exposing Windows developers to Apple development itself encouraging future OS X development possibilities



    That's a big one. I think in the future it'll be important for any well rounded developer to have experience with developing software for OSX, or even iPhone OS (with the way the ipad is selling.)
  • Reply 125 of 164
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by huntercr View Post


    ... It's providing a development platform for iPhone/iPad on Windows with Microsoft's official blessing. It can only work to Apple's advantage. there's no downside.



    ... They also gain these valuable side effects:



    3) Much larger development force ( especially in the corporate world where people are uneasy about change ) ...



    I hadn't considered the corporate side of the equation. There could be some benefit to Apple there. However, given that MS is apparently pushing ahead with their own mobile platform, what exactly would be the upside for them in this scenario?



    It just seems like this rumor is either completely off base as to what the 7 minutes is for, or nothing more than a rumor at all.
  • Reply 126 of 164
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    That's a big one. I think in the future it'll be important for any well rounded developer to have experience with developing software for OSX, or even iPhone OS (with the way the ipad is selling.)



    Apple probably has some secret Xcode Windows porting tool that they use for iTunes and Safari. If they released that IDE, maybe someday all Windows software will be "Made on Mac".
  • Reply 127 of 164
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Guess I remembered it wrong.



    Java is considered an open standard isn't it? Silverlight works with Java. BOOM



    Silverlight is not an open standard. BOOM!
  • Reply 128 of 164
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,044member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post


    What a terrible thing to write.



    Bill Gates is a fantastic human being. He is doing wonderful things with his foundation. He deserves respect. He certainly has mine.



    Dude, if you take the internet that seriously, you have a few other things wrong with you.
  • Reply 129 of 164
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,520member
    ... it will be about Development for Mobile OS X* on Windows period!



    * Apple will rename iPhone OS to the Mobile OS X platform, and it will encompass support for iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad (and a few implied future devices).





    I've read all the posts. Others, more expert than I, have posted how: it could work; it is technically feasible; it could be done without violating Apple's rules for cross-compiling, etc



    It what they said is true, than there are really no technical barriers-- in fact, the technical solution may have already been implemented.





    There are strategic and tactical reasons for Apple and Microsoft to do this, and I'll get to them in a moment.



    But first, consider why this is about development, and not about Bing, porting Word, Exchange enhancements, etc.:



    1) WWDC is a Developers conference



    2) WWDC 2010 is about Development for the Mobile OS X platform



    3) Anything else is just boilerplate





    Now, to the more interesting question: Why would Apple and Microsoft agree to do this?



    The simple answer, is that: Apple and Microsoft need each other!





    ? Apple has the hottest/established smart phone

    ? Apple has the hottest/established non-phone device that can be used as a mobile transactor-- the iPod Touch

    ? Apple has the hottest/established tablet device



    ? Microsoft's smart phone business is languishing, likely through 2011

    ? Microsoft's mobile transactor devices are overpriced and outdated

    ? Microsoft has no entry in the hottest market segment, the tablet, and likely won't, through 2011

    ? Microsoft has no viable mobile OS, and likely won't through 2011



    ? Apple has a loyal following of developers

    ? Apple has a distribution infrastructure for consumers

    ? Apple has a few, but growing number of IT developers

    ? Apple has a limited distribution infrastructure for IT



    ? Microsoft has a large, well established base of IT developers

    ? Microsoft has a powerful, established development IDE/Tools

    ? Microsoft has a proven, well established infrastructure to support IT, including mobile



    ? Apple has the devices that IT wants to use

    ? Microsoft has the developers and infrastructure that IT wants to use





    You can connect the dots anyway you like... Apple and Microsoft need each other!





    So, this isn't about Bing, or Office-- It's about development to exploit the mobile platform for the next 1-2 years.





    There is risk on both sides:



    -- the fatal embrace where one side sucks all the air from the other

    -- the encapsulation where one side subsumes the other

    -- the loss of IP & technological lead advanrages



    But, these two have danced together before, and are wary!





    The biggest risk of all is to do nothing, and let this two-year window of opportunity pass, or worse, be exploited by others.







    Apple and Microsoft need each other!





    There are nuances, but if it happens, that's what I think this is about!



    .
  • Reply 130 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    This would be a terribly short sighted deal for Apple. Apple should keep Microsoft as far away as possible. Only bad things happen when Microsoft gets close in, just look at Apples's history of close deals with Microsoft.



    Not to mention that Microsoft would probably just be trying to do what Adobe tried to do with Flash re: iPhone App development. Which means it would be irrelevant come iPhone OS 4.0.
  • Reply 131 of 164
    macosxpmacosxp Posts: 152member
    Balmer makes the most appealing and intreguing presentations.



    *Balmer walks in with a sweaty button-down shirt* "VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO! VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO! VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO, VISUAL STUDIO!"



    ....

    "Thank you, Steve Balmer."
  • Reply 132 of 164
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    "Developers Developers Developers Developers"





  • Reply 133 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Silverlight is not an open standard. BOOM!



    I think you're missing the point. Someone said if you go with Silverlight, you're "locked in." If you go with html5, how are you not locked into html5? You say html5 is an open standard, but Silverlight can run off Java, which is an open standard.



    It all depends on what you need in the end. As I read more about these things, it becomes apparent that no single technology can accommodate 100% of all web developers.
  • Reply 134 of 164
    mkeathmkeath Posts: 60member
    Nice to see a bunch of people who clearly have no software experience talking about how VS2010 would not be suited for the iPhone OS SDK. First off, VS2010 is an IDE, not an SDK or compiler or whatever else people are running around in their delusional heads. It's a glorified version of Notepad. The iPhone OS compiler comes with the SDK along with the emulator and the api binaries. This will be recompiled and integrated into VS2010 for development on iPhone. Also VS2010 owns really, really hard. I would also be really surprised if this didn't work with Visual C++ Express, and that is just the Visual Studio C++ component with the team collaboration stuff removed.
  • Reply 135 of 164
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    "Developers Developers Developers Developers"









    as it turns out the special guest speaking is not Steve Ballmer but rather Peter Boyles



  • Reply 136 of 164
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,520member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mkeath View Post


    Nice to see a bunch of people who clearly have no software experience talking about how VS2010 would not be suited for the iPhone OS SDK. First off, VS2010 is an IDE, not an SDK or compiler or whatever else people are running around in their delusional heads. It's a glorified version of Notepad. The iPhone OS compiler comes with the SDK along with the emulator and the api binaries. This will be recompiled and integrated into VS2010 for development on iPhone. Also VS2010 owns really, really hard. I would also be really surprised if this didn't work with Visual C++ Express, and that is just the Visual Studio C++ component with the team collaboration stuff removed.



    Could you clarify this a bit?



    I don't understand: "Also VS2010 owns really, really hard."



    It appears that you are saying that the iPhone development system offered by Apple could easily be incorporated into the development system (VS2010) offered by Microsoft.



    .
  • Reply 137 of 164
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    as it turns out the special guest speaking is not Steve Ballmer but rather Peter Boyles







    holy CRAP
  • Reply 138 of 164
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,581member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    I think you're missing the point. Someone said if you go with Silverlight, you're "locked in." If you go with html5, how are you not locked into html5? You say html5 is an open standard, but Silverlight can run off Java, which is an open standard.



    Because, by definition, open standards don't lock you in. The whole meaning of the phrase, "locked in" relates to proprietary technologies, where you are "locked in" or dependent on the owner of the technology. Since open standards aren't controlled by a single entity, you cannot, by definition, be "locked in" when using them. (Despite my earlier sarcastic quip re the horrors of such a situation.) That's the whole point of open standards



    You may be committed to HTML5, you may depend on it, you may, "bet the company on it," but, by definition, you cannot be "locked in" by it.



    Just because Silverlight may have some association with an open standard, doesn't make it an open standard, it's still just another proprietary technology. Saying it is, is just turning language on it's head and making nonsense of it.
  • Reply 139 of 164
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    as it turns out the special guest speaking is not Steve Ballmer but rather Peter Boyles



    With the possible problem being that Peter Boyle is actually dead, and Steve Ballmer only appears to be.
  • Reply 140 of 164
    notscottnotscott Posts: 247member
    Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please:



    Jobs: Hello, I'm a Mac.

    Ballmer: and I'm a PC.
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