Why? They just don't want their direct competition to gather information on how to beat them. Seems reasonable to me. Hope FTC isn't that stupid.
Hmm, no. They don't want any "non-independent" competitor to collection ad performance data, i.e. statistics on their OWN ad campaigns.
If the new wording actually bares the "non-independent" AdMob from the iOs, the FTC will certainly see it -being not stupid- as an obvious anti-competitive behavior.
Argument 1: "They're robbing developers of t3h monies!"
Only if the developers don't have an equal or better alternative to AdMob. As it stands, it seems they'll have that in iAds, so that's not true. It could be argued that they're robbing developers of choice, but developers will be happy to use the easier/more profitable option.
Argument 2: "They're robbing the users by robbing the developers of ad revenue!"
Only if the developers can't make as much from ad revenue,...
Generally, when there is less competition, prices are higher than if there is more competition.
For one to assume that devs will get more ad dollars with fewer firms competing for their business is to believe that Apple will charge less than the market will bear. That strikes me as very unlikely.
apple will pay developers more, they are going after the high profile/high revenue ads, charge both per impression and per click, and will have ads people are more likely to click on.
Apple will charge no more or less than the price which will maximize total profits. With less competition, that price is higher. Apple will not pay one penny more than is necessary to maximize total profits. They are rational.
With all the Android evangelists preaching how Android will take over the world, why would AdMob even be concerned with what Apple does with their own product/ecosystem? At least until the end of June 23, I expect Android will be the most prolific OS in the world. AdMob will make so much money that they can then give the finger to Apple.
He must have ate too much cheese with his whine.
Yeah, problem with the Android evangelists is like that BS stat of Q4 2009 US mobile phone sales growth where Android got 25% increase to Apple's 20% which allegedly says Android is winning.
The reality (going by Nielsen's total sales of US mobile for Q1 2010, I imagine Q4 2009 won't have too different) is Apple sold 28% of the handsets, and Android sold 9%. So they have absolutely miles to go before catching up to Apple.
Actually, it doesn't sound like AdMob was doing this ad all.
It sounds like, as you say, they will be able to capture and transmit this data, once you confirm that they can. The 'bitching and moaning' is about the change that allows any ad firm to collect and transmit this data, as longs as they are not google. As written by Apple, anyone is able to do it, as longs as they do not compete with Apple in the mobile OS space, a la google (or MS).
Actually I would have agreed with you except I know from using an android phone that if you wish to use the GPS or any locations dependent application you grant Google the right to collect personal information. This is new on the recent android update (1.5 to 2.1), I suspected they were doing it all along in the past due to the uncanny ability to provide information which was specific to my location. They now just tell you they plan to collect this if you enable GPS location feature on the Android phone.
You can not opt out or op in, if you wish to use the GPS feature in the phone with an application like maps you automatically allow google to collect information about you. Unlike the iphone you can use the GPS chip or the Cell network to determine your location without having to give your rights away to share personal information. What apple found was that ads placed in free apps were in fact sharing that information to ad companies and companies like google. So yes apple is blocking google form personal information, and only allowing the information to be shared with mobile analytical companies to do market analysis and the apps has to allow you to op in not op out, which is good for us.
Google has made it very clear they made Android as a means to collect mobile user information and to place ads in front of you as often as they can. Apple obviously does not want that to be an iphone experience. Google whole business model is on their ability to place ad which are user specific so they get to charge advertisers more for this service. Apple obviously is not going to make that much.
I said this before, people are too willing to give out personal information in exchange to get someone free or what they think is free. I do not know for sure, but I willing to bet that Verizon and the other service provides are getting a cut of the ads fee for any Android phone in their networks. In the meant time Google knows everywhere that phone has been and what you have done with it.
Reading too much FUD today Stevie? Please read the article, and more importantly the clause carefully. That's not what it says. It only bars ad companies associated with directly competing companies. Independent ad companies can advertise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie
Without having competition? How would that work? Are you positing some radical new economic phenomenon here?
Apple is saying "You want ad revenue from your app? Take our deal, or take no deal."
I don't think they do. They do have mobile advertising sales, but I think it is mainly web ads targeted at mobile browsers. But, if Apple and Google are in the space, it is a safe bet that MS will want to get in too. This would prohibit them as well, if and when the make a play.
I'm going to make the bold prediction that iAd will be on WinPhone 7 as a tit-for-tat for having Bing on the iPhone. It's not like Apple needs money from MS and that whole Windows Live/Bing stuff has not been a huge winner for MS in terms of either revenue or mind share.
And it would piss off Google which probably plays a bit into Redmond thinking. Android is more of a competitor to WinPhone than iOS. iPhone sales are customers picking Apple over MS but an Android sale is a partner picking Google over Microsoft.
I loathe cheap apps with annoying ads. If a couple more bucks dumps the ads, I'm all in. If the ads are also secretly snaring my personal info, I'm even less sympathetic to the advertisers and their facilitators.
Apps will still have ads. A couple more bucks ain't got nothing to do with it.
iAds can snare personal information in exactly the same way, and under exactly the same rules as any other ad.
Nobody can secretly snare your personal info: every app must ask permission.
[Tulkas: what is to stop google from buying it from the independents?]
In essence, nothing. However if Apple finds out they will find a way to say that said company is no longer independent and will ban their use from apps. And few folks are large enough or diverse enough to risk that.
Actually, I don't think it matters. Google is in the business of selling data and making money because the value of the data is greater than the cost of collecting it.
If Google has to buy the data from someone else, their value proposition dries up. Why should I buy data from Google if I can just as easily buy the data from the people who actually collected it?
Yes. ISTM that Apple is using its market power in the app market in order to unfairly compete in the ad market.
How does Apple unfairly compete for ads? Creatively yeah, they've been leading segments of the ad business since the 1984 commercial. But Apple is limiting AdMob's ability to be in the ad business? They can always rent one of those flying banners behind a plane! You can't break off cell ads into a separate subset and call it a monopoly, advertising is a much bigger industry than the hopes and dreams of iAd or Admob. Maybe it's all those huge opportunities for AdMob on Android and Verizon that's causing them confusion about the iPhone?
Why do those who lack talent, always whine about those who do? Destroying your competition is not unfair, and welcome to planet Earth in our Solar System of Universe A otherwise known as reality.
I refuse to work with you, you can't be on my dodgeball team. I won't let you use any of your skills or services on my team.
Your options are:
1. Run home and cry.
2. Shut up and go start your own team.
3. Whine that you weren't liked enough to be picked, start the tearworks, and hope somebody's Mom forces all the other kids to let you play, which will always backfire because you become sole target of the ball, learn nothing and develop an attitude that encourages failure & resentment of other's abilities and success.
4. Get really good at chess or join the speech & debate team.
And if I "delete" an account anywhere, that has to equal a complete erasure of any and all stored data specific to the account. Again, especially when it's "identifying" data.
Sure. But keep in mind that prior to deleting your account, the info may have benn sold and resold multiple times, and at the time of deletion, may exist in multiple third-party locations.
The 'bitching and moaning' is about the change that allows any ad firm to collect and transmit this data, as longs as they are not google. As written by Apple, anyone is able to do it, as longs as they do not compete with Apple in the mobile OS space, a la google (or MS).
And in turn, that stifling of competition in the mobile OS market is perhaps intended to lessen Apple's competition in the handset market.
Apple shouldn't be expected to subsidise competitors development costs via the back door of milking revenue from users.
If you really believe that, then you also must believe that Microsoft shouln't be selling Office for Mac, because they milk revenue from Mac users, using that as a back door way to pay development costs.
But I'm confident that you don't really believe that. Because all sorts of companies make money off their competitor's products.
For example, every company that makes a case for the iPad, and every company that makes cables for Apple products compete with Apple for the accessory sales. Every one of them makes money off of Apple's customers in competition with Apple.
If the information that Apple allows is useful to Google, outside of serving the ads, what is to stop google from buying it from the independents?
I'd imagine numerous laws would probably prevent the sale of that data without it being explicitly spelt out to consumers that this was being done, at least in some countries anyway.
One thing I've learned in my years of business and marketing... Never, ever, ever trust what ONE marketer or advertiser says about another advertiser or marketer....period.
Christopher Powers
p.s. Ever hear Coke say Pepsi's tastes good? Hell would freeze over first.
Well, let's be honest. That's because Pepsi sucks and Coke is awesome!
That part of what he said is true. Until iAd has comparative revenue--- it is more difficult for devs to release free games.
As Jobs pointed out in the keynote, iAds already will provide comparable revenue to developers: Apple has about half the total ad revenue for the second half of 2011.
BTW, Apple provides 60% of ad revenue to the developers of the host apps. Are AdMob's terms as generous?
Comments
Why? They just don't want their direct competition to gather information on how to beat them. Seems reasonable to me. Hope FTC isn't that stupid.
Hmm, no. They don't want any "non-independent" competitor to collection ad performance data, i.e. statistics on their OWN ad campaigns.
If the new wording actually bares the "non-independent" AdMob from the iOs, the FTC will certainly see it -being not stupid- as an obvious anti-competitive behavior.
Pretty much.
Argument 1: "They're robbing developers of t3h monies!"
Only if the developers don't have an equal or better alternative to AdMob. As it stands, it seems they'll have that in iAds, so that's not true. It could be argued that they're robbing developers of choice, but developers will be happy to use the easier/more profitable option.
Argument 2: "They're robbing the users by robbing the developers of ad revenue!"
Only if the developers can't make as much from ad revenue,...
Generally, when there is less competition, prices are higher than if there is more competition.
For one to assume that devs will get more ad dollars with fewer firms competing for their business is to believe that Apple will charge less than the market will bear. That strikes me as very unlikely.
apple will pay developers more, they are going after the high profile/high revenue ads, charge both per impression and per click, and will have ads people are more likely to click on.
Apple will charge no more or less than the price which will maximize total profits. With less competition, that price is higher. Apple will not pay one penny more than is necessary to maximize total profits. They are rational.
With all the Android evangelists preaching how Android will take over the world, why would AdMob even be concerned with what Apple does with their own product/ecosystem? At least until the end of June 23, I expect Android will be the most prolific OS in the world. AdMob will make so much money that they can then give the finger to Apple.
He must have ate too much cheese with his whine.
Yeah, problem with the Android evangelists is like that BS stat of Q4 2009 US mobile phone sales growth where Android got 25% increase to Apple's 20% which allegedly says Android is winning.
The reality (going by Nielsen's total sales of US mobile for Q1 2010, I imagine Q4 2009 won't have too different) is Apple sold 28% of the handsets, and Android sold 9%. So they have absolutely miles to go before catching up to Apple.
Actually, it doesn't sound like AdMob was doing this ad all.
It sounds like, as you say, they will be able to capture and transmit this data, once you confirm that they can. The 'bitching and moaning' is about the change that allows any ad firm to collect and transmit this data, as longs as they are not google. As written by Apple, anyone is able to do it, as longs as they do not compete with Apple in the mobile OS space, a la google (or MS).
Actually I would have agreed with you except I know from using an android phone that if you wish to use the GPS or any locations dependent application you grant Google the right to collect personal information. This is new on the recent android update (1.5 to 2.1), I suspected they were doing it all along in the past due to the uncanny ability to provide information which was specific to my location. They now just tell you they plan to collect this if you enable GPS location feature on the Android phone.
You can not opt out or op in, if you wish to use the GPS feature in the phone with an application like maps you automatically allow google to collect information about you. Unlike the iphone you can use the GPS chip or the Cell network to determine your location without having to give your rights away to share personal information. What apple found was that ads placed in free apps were in fact sharing that information to ad companies and companies like google. So yes apple is blocking google form personal information, and only allowing the information to be shared with mobile analytical companies to do market analysis and the apps has to allow you to op in not op out, which is good for us.
Google has made it very clear they made Android as a means to collect mobile user information and to place ads in front of you as often as they can. Apple obviously does not want that to be an iphone experience. Google whole business model is on their ability to place ad which are user specific so they get to charge advertisers more for this service. Apple obviously is not going to make that much.
I said this before, people are too willing to give out personal information in exchange to get someone free or what they think is free. I do not know for sure, but I willing to bet that Verizon and the other service provides are getting a cut of the ads fee for any Android phone in their networks. In the meant time Google knows everywhere that phone has been and what you have done with it.
Without having competition? How would that work? Are you positing some radical new economic phenomenon here?
Apple is saying "You want ad revenue from your app? Take our deal, or take no deal."
.
I don't think they do. They do have mobile advertising sales, but I think it is mainly web ads targeted at mobile browsers. But, if Apple and Google are in the space, it is a safe bet that MS will want to get in too. This would prohibit them as well, if and when the make a play.
I'm going to make the bold prediction that iAd will be on WinPhone 7 as a tit-for-tat for having Bing on the iPhone. It's not like Apple needs money from MS and that whole Windows Live/Bing stuff has not been a huge winner for MS in terms of either revenue or mind share.
And it would piss off Google which probably plays a bit into Redmond thinking. Android is more of a competitor to WinPhone than iOS. iPhone sales are customers picking Apple over MS but an Android sale is a partner picking Google over Microsoft.
I loathe cheap apps with annoying ads. If a couple more bucks dumps the ads, I'm all in. If the ads are also secretly snaring my personal info, I'm even less sympathetic to the advertisers and their facilitators.
Apps will still have ads. A couple more bucks ain't got nothing to do with it.
iAds can snare personal information in exactly the same way, and under exactly the same rules as any other ad.
Nobody can secretly snare your personal info: every app must ask permission.
[Tulkas: what is to stop google from buying it from the independents?]
In essence, nothing. However if Apple finds out they will find a way to say that said company is no longer independent and will ban their use from apps. And few folks are large enough or diverse enough to risk that.
Actually, I don't think it matters. Google is in the business of selling data and making money because the value of the data is greater than the cost of collecting it.
If Google has to buy the data from someone else, their value proposition dries up. Why should I buy data from Google if I can just as easily buy the data from the people who actually collected it?
Yes. ISTM that Apple is using its market power in the app market in order to unfairly compete in the ad market.
How does Apple unfairly compete for ads? Creatively yeah, they've been leading segments of the ad business since the 1984 commercial. But Apple is limiting AdMob's ability to be in the ad business? They can always rent one of those flying banners behind a plane! You can't break off cell ads into a separate subset and call it a monopoly, advertising is a much bigger industry than the hopes and dreams of iAd or Admob. Maybe it's all those huge opportunities for AdMob on Android and Verizon that's causing them confusion about the iPhone?
Why do those who lack talent, always whine about those who do? Destroying your competition is not unfair, and welcome to planet Earth in our Solar System of Universe A otherwise known as reality.
I refuse to work with you, you can't be on my dodgeball team. I won't let you use any of your skills or services on my team.
Your options are:
1. Run home and cry.
2. Shut up and go start your own team.
3. Whine that you weren't liked enough to be picked, start the tearworks, and hope somebody's Mom forces all the other kids to let you play, which will always backfire because you become sole target of the ball, learn nothing and develop an attitude that encourages failure & resentment of other's abilities and success.
4. Get really good at chess or join the speech & debate team.
And if I "delete" an account anywhere, that has to equal a complete erasure of any and all stored data specific to the account. Again, especially when it's "identifying" data.
Sure. But keep in mind that prior to deleting your account, the info may have benn sold and resold multiple times, and at the time of deletion, may exist in multiple third-party locations.
The 'bitching and moaning' is about the change that allows any ad firm to collect and transmit this data, as longs as they are not google. As written by Apple, anyone is able to do it, as longs as they do not compete with Apple in the mobile OS space, a la google (or MS).
And in turn, that stifling of competition in the mobile OS market is perhaps intended to lessen Apple's competition in the handset market.
Apple shouldn't be expected to subsidise competitors development costs via the back door of milking revenue from users.
If you really believe that, then you also must believe that Microsoft shouln't be selling Office for Mac, because they milk revenue from Mac users, using that as a back door way to pay development costs.
But I'm confident that you don't really believe that. Because all sorts of companies make money off their competitor's products.
For example, every company that makes a case for the iPad, and every company that makes cables for Apple products compete with Apple for the accessory sales. Every one of them makes money off of Apple's customers in competition with Apple.
And all of that is perfectly OK.
If the information that Apple allows is useful to Google, outside of serving the ads, what is to stop google from buying it from the independents?
I'd imagine numerous laws would probably prevent the sale of that data without it being explicitly spelt out to consumers that this was being done, at least in some countries anyway.
Who says there is no competition?
IIRC, nobody.
One thing I've learned in my years of business and marketing... Never, ever, ever trust what ONE marketer or advertiser says about another advertiser or marketer....period.
Christopher Powers
p.s. Ever hear Coke say Pepsi's tastes good? Hell would freeze over first.
Well, let's be honest. That's because Pepsi sucks and Coke is awesome!
http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/2010...er%3Cbr%20/%3E
You can't break off cell ads into a separate subset
That is up to the feds. They may or may not decide it is the right course of action.
That part of what he said is true. Until iAd has comparative revenue--- it is more difficult for devs to release free games.
As Jobs pointed out in the keynote, iAds already will provide comparable revenue to developers: Apple has about half the total ad revenue for the second half of 2011.
BTW, Apple provides 60% of ad revenue to the developers of the host apps. Are AdMob's terms as generous?