Hold off those video card purchases (details on GeForce 4 family/new ATI cards)

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  • Reply 61 of 97
    big macbig mac Posts: 480member
    This truly is a fascinating discussion, to geeks, that is, but what I'm wondering is whether or not much of this is moot due to the fact that in recent times Apple has only sold/supported but a few graphics cards. In fact, I had to buy a discontinued card from a defunct company just to have low end graphics acceleration in my 8600 - the only other choice I had was to go with the PCI Radeon, which is definitely overpriced. I'm hoping for a brighter future in this arena.



    With the previous generation of cards, PC users had tons of choices from Nvidia and ATi; Apple only had two cards from each. Does the fact that Apple is shipping the low end Power Mac with an ATi card mean that the relationship between the two companies is better than it was just previously? Will we see more Macintosh support from both companies in this new round? I realize that Nvidia cards are more compatible with the Mac in the realm of firmware patches, but will this flexibility really allow greater choice? Could one speculate as to how much work is being put into Mac driver development?



    I'm not a graphics card junkie (or "fan boy," if that's the favored adjective); I'm just a passionately devoted Mac user who wants to know what he can expect in the not-to-distant future. All of these questions are sincerely posed.



    [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Big Mac ]</p>
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  • Reply 62 of 97
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    [quote]Originally posted by MacAddict:

    <strong>Mmm...sounds good. I wonder what the new chipsets will be called. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    ATI A3 and ATI A4. Coming soon to a Athlon and Pentium 4 system near you.
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  • Reply 63 of 97
    Eskimo, do tell more of what you speak on.
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  • Reply 64 of 97
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 450member
    Is there such a small Mac market that it's not economically feasible for more manufacturers to produce video cards for them?

    Would it really be that hard to make the cards used in PCs work in Macs.

    It seems that I read somewhere that the regular Geforce cards can be flashed for use in a Mac.

    Anybody know?
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  • Reply 65 of 97
    While we still have some problems, a lot of the nVidia cards from different manufacturers have worked out of the box. If not, they have worked by flashing. This has given us the option of buying cheaper and better cards that the PC world enjoys. Since all of nVidia's future chipsets are Mac compatible I don't think it would be too hard to stamp that Mac logo on the box. Kinda like how this cd-rw drive box says Windows 95/Me/98/NT 4/2000 compatible yet once I installed it in the G3, it worked perfectly.
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  • Reply 66 of 97
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 450member
    If you hear someone trying a Quadro card, let me know. I'd like to have one of those in a Mac, but don't want to spend that much if it won't work.
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  • Reply 67 of 97
    [quote]Originally posted by Eskimo:

    <strong>

    ATI A3 and ATI A4. Coming soon to a Athlon and Pentium 4 system near you.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, the new ATI cards promise to be really hot and Mac developers should finally be able to take advantage of at least the major features. If I buy a machine mid-year, I'll probably go for one of the A3 boards.
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  • Reply 68 of 97
    enderender Posts: 353member
    The rub with getting PC graphics cards for your mac is that those of us with Apple's very nice displays have another $150 added to the cost of the card to get the DVIator for our LCD monitor.



    Bummer.



    -Ender
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  • Reply 69 of 97
    [quote]I just wonder if Steve will actively encourage them to take out the TV functions or simply ignore them in software. Either way, I'll bet dollars to donuts that we will once again be excluded from the computer-TV integration revolution as our PC counterparts laugh and Steve keeps blathering about turning our minds on.

    <hr></blockquote>



    Thankfully Apple isn't turning their computers into television idiot boxes. I'd rather acquire a crack habit than blow my mind watching TV all the time. My last room-mate was a TV watcher, that fu[ker would get home at 5:30 and watch the tube until 2:00 am, and he was dumb, too.
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  • Reply 70 of 97
    I would just like to see Apple make more options on the cards.. I think the demand would be high enough for the top of the line gf4. I would pay at least 80 bucks more to have their connector on it than just flash the pc counterpart, and use a dviator. I think Apple should consider doing what Asus does, start manufacturing some cards themselves. This would mean a higher profit margin, and we would get nicer stuff sooner.
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  • Reply 71 of 97
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 450member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jeremiah Rich:

    <strong>I would just like to see Apple make more options on the cards.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, but I'd like to see all of the manufacturers who make these display cards for PCs also make them available for Mac users as well.
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  • Reply 72 of 97
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    [quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:

    <strong>Eskimo, do tell more of what you speak on.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    All I know about ATI's chipsets is what I read in the rumor rags or see on roadmaps.



    A3

    -Athlon support (SocketA)

    -support DDR200 and DDR266 memory

    -offer 200MHz and 266MHz frontside bus speeds

    -Internal graphics core based on RV200 (like Radeon 7500)

    -AGP 4x graphics port



    A4

    -Pentium 4 Support

    -Internal graphics core based on RV200

    -support DDR266, 333



    A4-K

    -Athlon support

    -support for DDR333

    -based on AMD's HyperTransport bus
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  • Reply 73 of 97
    Cool so ATI is gonna try to compete with the nForce now. I don't know how those specs you listed compare with any of the nForce out there.



    WOOT!! RADEON 8500XT BOX SHOT:







    ATI is about to announce another chip from the Radeon family, Radeon 8500 XT. It will be clocked at 300MHz (Radeon 8500 - at 275MHz, Fire GL 8800 - at 300MHz) and will support dual-display configurations. Graphics cards based on Radeon 8500 XT will be equipped with 64MB or 128MB DDR SDRAM clocked at the same 300MHz.

    Radeon 8500 XT will be officially announced at CeBIT 2002 in Hanover, mass shipments are scheduled for March/April. Apparently. this will be ATI’s riposte to the GeForce4 family from NVIDIA to arrive in February. But isn’t the riposte too weak? Well, ATI is known for never rushing to launch really new chips. We won’t be surprised if R300 will be released not in spring (as it was expected), but around June and shipments will start in autumn (i.e., like it happened last year with R200 aka Radeon 8500).
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  • Reply 74 of 97
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,503member
    [quote]Originally posted by Eskimo:

    <strong>



    All I know about ATI's chipsets is what I read in the rumor rags or see on roadmaps.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Woops, I thought you meant Radeon3 ... that's what I was refering to. I know nothing about their motherboard chipsets.
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  • Reply 75 of 97
    Back to tha top, with some new info.



    First, it looks like ATI is getting set to launch it's answer to the GF4 in March:



    The R250, the competitor to the GF4, is going to be a 128 MB part, clocked @ 350/350 & will be announced @ Cebit. According to the Cebit website, the event will take place in Hannover, Germany between March 13-20.



    But not before they beef up the 8500, according to Firing Squad:



    According to the Firing Squad, ATI will release the following on Monday:



    -128MB Radeon 8500 card for $249. This will have the exact same core/memory specs as the original Radeon 8500.



    -64MB Radeon LE for $149. Same LE, lower price



    And in other news, Gainward's GF4 were leaked, thanks to <a href="http://www.watford.co.uk"; target="_blank">www.watford.co.uk</a>



    Do a product search and you will see them listed.



    Here's a picture that is said to be from an issue of PC Gamer magazine:



    <a href="http://www.3dchipset.com/temp/gf4.shtml"; target="_blank">http://www.3dchipset.com/temp/gf4.shtml</a>;



    Lastly, check out what nVidia has to say on their website. <a href="http://www.nvidia.com"; target="_blank">www.nvidia.com</a>



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  • Reply 76 of 97
    Oh, I forgot this one.



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  • Reply 77 of 97
    inubinub Posts: 45member
    [quote]Originally posted by qazII:

    <strong>



    Whoa! More transistors than the G5!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    IIRC, the Geforce 3 has more transistors than the Pentium 4. That in itself is a frightening thought.

    :eek:
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  • Reply 78 of 97
    Yes, graphics cards have overtaken CPUs! Soon nVidia will have faster clocks on their cards then Apple has on their PowerMacs.
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  • Reply 79 of 97
    Do you guys think there is anything that could stop manufacturers from stamping that Mac logo on their graphics card boxes? I mean, with the nVidia products it's not like they would have to make a card specifically for Macs as opposed to the PC version. They just have to make it Mac compatible out of the box, which shouldn't be that complicated. Also, it would suck getting that MSI card and finding that most of the software/features/games won't work on your Mac. The games that are included with that card I saw almost every single one at CompUSA for the Mac.Do you think that the manufacturers would be interested and would Apple allow them to do it? It would be pretty sweet.



    I think Apple went the wrong way with the GeForce4 MX. I think it was really to say "Hey we have this GF4 before the PC world" kinda move. Granted the GF4MX is a lot better than the 2MX, it will still be the budget card from nVidia in a month. These are supposedly pro machines, yet we get stuck with cards that Apple could get for what, $20? It is a step-up, but PC users can still have the last laugh in the end. Maybe the real deal Holyfield NV25 is coming with G5s and a new mobo. Let's hope.
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  • Reply 80 of 97
    wfzellewfzelle Posts: 137member
    [quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:

    <strong>I think Apple went the wrong way with the GeForce4 MX. I think it was really to say "Hey we have this GF4 before the PC world" kinda move. Granted the GF4MX is a lot better than the 2MX, it will still be the budget card from nVidia in a month. These are supposedly pro machines, yet we get stuck with cards that Apple could get for what, $20? It is a step-up, but PC users can still have the last laugh in the end.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think we just need to have the 8500 as a BTO-option. The Geforce 4 MX will sell well to non-gamers and the 8500 will satisfy the gamers. Everyone's happy.



    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: wfzelle ]</p>
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