Verizon-compatible CDMA iPhone 4 rumored to be in production

12467

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 125
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member
    LTE will replace EVDO not CDMA. Verizon said CDMA will be around until around 2018.



    http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=176454&



    "BOSTON -- Verizon Wireless CTO Tony Melone says that it is in his company's best interest to move to nationwide LTE as soon as possible and cut the pricing of mobile data services along the way, but that the operator is unlikely to stop CDMA-based voice services before 2018 at the earliest."





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post


    The network will stay up for another 5-6 years, but I highly doubt all their phones will still have CDMA chips for that long. Take a look at AT&T and Canada for examples of carriers making a tech switch. VoLTE will be ready by 2012 if not 2011, and Verizon will be agressive in their coverage rollout for a number of reasons, so I would expect they will have phones without CDMA in 2012 or 2013.



  • Reply 62 of 125
    neilmneilm Posts: 989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    THAT doesn't matter actually lol. You're talking about a win that we won't see the results of for YEARS. A CMDA iPhone for Verizon would have a long enough life that by the time CMDA is gone, nobody will be pouting over their CMDA iPhone not working anymore.



    Apparently you didn't read the questions I answered.



    Quote:

    People act as if Verizon or Sprint aren't facing the very issue we're discussing here. What will all of their users do with their phones as CMDA is phased out?



    Companies like Sprint and Verizon will transition by starting to sell phones that work on both the old network and new network, then eventually they'll sell phones that only work with the new network. Apple could easily work with these companies to bring the iPhone to their network.



    It's pretty easy for someone else to characterize the necessary effort as "easy." Dual standard CDMA/GSM phones have been around for years (at a price...). Verizon will certainly have to offer CDMA/LTE handsets during their transition period, and for quite some time after that. It'll likely be years before their entire network makes the transition. As for Sprint, I'd say the jury is still very much out on what they've chosen to do.



    The real question is whether Apple will choose to buy into the fading days of CDMA. Maybe, but it certainly hasn't been their style to adopt waning technology.



    Quote:

    It's not a matter of CMDA being a "dead technology." It never was.



    I'd call it zombie technology—the walking dead.
  • Reply 63 of 125
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dogcow View Post


    So my understanding of CDMA technology is that it can not handle voice and data at the same time. This goes against a lot of the multitasking functionality of the iphones. Additionally. Doesn't facetime use 3G voice + data (wifi for now, 3g later) to make a video call? This doesn't seem technically possible on CDMA.



    To be more clear, CDMA (2G) is used for voice. Compared to GSM (2G) the voice algorithm is pretty universally better than GSM. It also has come other advantages, too. CDMA2000/EV-DO Rev. A(3G) is for data and wasn't designed to do simultaneous voice and data. EV-DO Rev. B is.



    Even when connected to CDMA2000 calls are still made and received via CDMA, this is apparently more efficient than GSM-based users being on UMTS (3G) and making and receiving calls on 3G, which is more power insensitive. The only phones that tend to beat the iPhone in battery duration are CDMA phones and only when stating 3G calls.



    Verizon has reportedly working on simultaneous V&D over Rev. A without actually upgrading to Rev B. I have no idea how they'd accomplish this but I think they need this in short order.



    FaceTime appears to use protocols that put V&D all on WiFi.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    CDMA itself is capable of voice + data, at least with EVDO Rev. A.



    Eveything I've ever read on the subject states simulations V&D in Rev. A is not possible.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    As stated before, CDMA phones could well be for China, but if they are going to be producing CDMA iPhones, they may as well sell them on Verizon and Sprint in the US as well.



    I have no idea how this get pushed around. Creating a CDMA phone for China makes no sense. Verizon and Sprint both have many more potential customers for a CDMA iPhone than China. China's CDMA carrier is the 3rd largest in the country and only has 65M subs. If they are going to add an alternative option to China that is focused on China first then it would China Mobile with 500M subs on TD-SCDMA. Now, if they focus on the US first then including other CDMA networks throughout the world isn't an issue, but China wouldn't their first consideration for CDMA phone.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post


    I'm thinking the same thing. Why would ATT allow such a gracious upgrade policy?!? They're running scared. Companies don't offer that kind of deal unless they had alot to gain or alot to lose.



    That is one theory. Another is that they lose nothing with this early upgrade because they raised the ETF fee to $325 so they do gain you for another 2 years and risk losing little. I'm quite torn as I think both might be in play, and even if their contract is up I don't think they know Apple's plans.
  • Reply 64 of 125
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NeilM View Post


    Dual standard CDMA/GSM phones have been around for years (at a price...).



    This technology isn't widely used which tells me it has inherent flaws. It's costly on many levels. Not just the chip, but Qualcomm's egregious licensing. Perhaps most important to Apple is the cost of size, power usage and radios. These chips seems to only be found in a couple large devices with pretty bad ratings compared to their simple brethren.



    Plus, they seem very limited in other ways. Sure, they have GSM and CDMA in the same device, but there was at least BB for Verzion that didn't have GSM frequencies for N. America. I know I've seen other odd configurations but I can't recall specifics.



    Unless this CDMA/GSM chip can be as small, as power efficient and support all the need frequencies as the X-GOLD 616 and Triquint chips (speculation) Apple is using the iPhone 4, I can't imagine it being considered.



    Quote:

    I'd call it zombie technology?the walking dead.



    I prefer the term obsolescing.
  • Reply 65 of 125
    shobizshobiz Posts: 207member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post


    I'm thinking the same thing. Why would ATT allow such a gracious upgrade policy?!? They're running scared. Companies don't offer that kind of deal unless they had alot to gain or alot to lose.







    You think AT&T is scared

    Hahahahahahaha Come on now.
  • Reply 66 of 125
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member
    First of all, Sprint and Verizon customers can use the internet and talk while on WiFi now. I have wifi in my home but have never once felt the need to use the internet or data while talking on the phone. Is that really a feature that current iPhone users really use? I really don't see that as a major selling point.



    I also don't care if I couldn't use my CDMA iPhone in another country. There are many alternatives, for example Google Voice with a cheap prepaid GSM phone, Spype or other VOiP services, email, etc..



    I don't think Apple would have to make a hybrid GSM/CDMA phone. They could simply make a CDMA model and clearly explain that you cannot surf and talk at the same time. All verizon and Sprint customers are already aware of this fact so no surprise there. There are about 165 million CDMA customers in the USA. That is a huge number. How many European countries would you have to group together to get 165 million phone subscribers? (not total population of the countries, just the phone subscribers)



    CDMA will still be around for about 8 more years, even though EVDO will be phased out far more quickly. Apple will have no choice but to offer a CDMA radio if they wish to go with Sprint or Verizon. It remains to be seen if this will be a hybrid phone with GSM/CDMA or simply a CDMA version. But to think that they could not make a ton of money off of 165M potential customers seems silly. How much would R&D really cost to make a CDMA iPhone? I have no idea but I do know that they would probably recoup that cost on the very first day a Verizon or Sprint iPhone is released.
  • Reply 67 of 125
    estyleestyle Posts: 201member
    i am not sure this will actually be a good thing for verizon, and here are my reasons:



    1) they currently can market the strength of their network due to significantly less data demand than if they have a mass consumer purchase of iphones. the iphone on verizon would make Verizon and AT&T network providers relatively similar with geographyy and tower placement being the prime differentiation. In Orlando, Washington, D.C., Boston, San Diego, and L.A., from my experience, my AT&T iPhone service has always been better than my company provided Verzion Balckberry serivce.



    2) Verizon also differentiate themselves from AT&T by marketing that their new phones are better than the iphone and smartphone makers probably offer them great deals since they know they are at a disadvantage selling on AT&T against the iphone



    3) Verizon probably would like to finish all their network upgrades before the system is overloaded



    ...but then again ignoring those issues don't seem to be hurting AT&T



    4) not sure verizon is ready to give apple the concesions they demanded when they were initially negotiating the 1st gen iphone release. I think apple has even more leverage at the table now.



    Finally, I am not sure apple wants to become the dominant phone on the two dominant networks with the monopolistic practices investigations going on right now. might be better for apple to start by adding Deutsche Telekoms T-Mobile network first and see how that sells.
  • Reply 68 of 125
    All these CDMA iPhone rumors are like beating a dead horse by now. I was a previous Verizon customer before I bought my iPhone and would love for Verizon to have the iPhone, but it just isn't going to happen while CDMA is in effect. Once Verizon switches to LTE, then the chances are good. Truth is, Apple is not going to re-tool and produce a CDMA iPhone. Not when CDMA is on the way out. And sure, Apple produces a specific model for the Chinese market (which I believe is some variant of CDMA, but not the same as Verizon), that market is much larger than the US, and much more so than what Apple could expect to gain from Verizon's ~90M subscribers (not all of whom would buy an iPhone, mind you). So the cost is justified. For Apple it simply wouldn't be worth the money, time, and effort to produce a CDMA iPhone for Verizon.



    My $.02
  • Reply 69 of 125
    I'm going to preorder today and beat the rush.
  • Reply 70 of 125
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    First of all, Sprint and Verizon customers can use the internet and talk while on WiFi now. I have wifi in my home but have never once felt the need to use the internet or data while talking on the phone. Is that really a feature that current iPhone users really use? I really don't see that as a major selling point.



    Sorry , but I think you are very much in the minority there, or at least more so than you think. I'm on the internet almost 90% of the time I'm on my phone (be it mobile, or at home), about the only time I'm not is when I'm driving.



    Quote:

    I also don't care if I couldn't use my CDMA iPhone in another country. There are many alternatives, for example Google Voice with a cheap prepaid GSM phone, Spype or other VOiP services, email, etc..



    Again minority, or your just not out of the country much. I find it very important to have my device with my information and data with me wherever I go. To have to get another device, that I may not be familiar with is a real PITA, and kind of goes against the whole reason to carry a smart phone (to not have to carry multiple devices) to begin with.



    If neither of these things are very important to you I'd re-access if you actually want an iPhone since you could probably just get by with an iPod touch.
  • Reply 71 of 125
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    You're wrong. You only have to look as far as the AT&T CEO to see the Verizon iPhone is coming in September. When asked about it on one of those "money" TV things he didn't even deny it. He only said that the vast majority of our customers are on a family plan, and a lot of the rest are enterprise customers and are very sticky customers. He doesn't want to deny it 'cause he trying to manage expectations around the stock. If it wasn't true he's say so. You'd have to see the video and I'm far too lazy to locate it.



    How would the CEO of the AT&T know what VZ is doing with any number of supplier of cell phones, he does not so he can not confirm nor deny anything, plus CEO are not allow to make statements about things which are not publicly announce to everyone at the same time and as you pointed out because of stock pricing.



    I also point to the fact that for 6 months leading up to VZ announcement of the Motorola Driod phone there were rumors rapid that the iphone was coming to VZ and they were testing it and the such. Well as we all now know, it was not true and the testing that was going on was for the Driod not the iphone. What makes you thinks this is any different.



    Fundamentally Apple and VZ are non-compatible companies, unless VZ changes its business model Apple will not do business with them and we all know Steve will not change.
  • Reply 72 of 125
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oldandintheway View Post


    I'm going to preorder today and beat the rush.



    Best Buy is probably taking pre-orders on Verizon iPhones.
  • Reply 73 of 125
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Best Buy is probably taking orders on Verizon iPhones.



    Best post.
  • Reply 74 of 125
    aiaddictaiaddict Posts: 487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    LTE will replace EVDO not CDMA. Verizon said CDMA will be around until around 2018.



    http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=176454&



    "BOSTON -- Verizon Wireless CTO Tony Melone says that it is in his company's best interest to move to nationwide LTE as soon as possible and cut the pricing of mobile data services along the way, but that the operator is unlikely to stop CDMA-based voice services before 2018 at the earliest."



    Unlikely to shutdown the CDMA voice network before 2018 is completely different than "all phones will still have a CDMA chip for at least another 5 years". You also quoted an artical from 2009, before there was any solid agreement on a global VoLTE standard. If Verizon can meet their rollout goals for the lTE network, and if the handsets show up as planned in 12 months, within 24-36 months you will start to see them selling non-CDMA devices. In fact, in about 5 years, if not sooner, I would expect them to cutoff sales of CDMA phones so they can be ready for a 2018 shutdown.
  • Reply 75 of 125
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Judgegavel View Post


    Sorry , but I think you are very much in the minority there, or at least more so than you think. I'm on the internet almost 90% of the time I'm on my phone (be it mobile, or at home), about the only time I'm not is when I'm driving.







    Again minority, or your just not out of the country much. I find it very important to have my device with my information and data with me wherever I go. To have to get another device, that I may not be familiar with is a real PITA, and kind of goes against the whole reason to carry a smart phone (to not have to carry multiple devices) to begin with.



    If neither of these things are very important to you I'd re-access if you actually want an iPhone since you could probably just get by with an iPod touch.



    So 90% of the time you are talking on the phone you are also using the internet? I would hate to have a phone conversation with you. Not only would you be distracted but speaker calls are harder to hear in general. I use the data a lot on my phone, but really don't see the need WHILE i am talking to someone. I have that capability with WiFi and never use it. I doubt I am in the minority here.





    I have traveled to over 80 countries around the world and take about 2 to 3 foreign trips abroad each year. The VAST majority of Americans never leave the country at all, and the most popular destinations are Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean for the ones that do. So again, Americans who travel abroad are hardly a majority. And even when I was on AT&T, the cost of using an iPhone overseas is ridiculously expensive with AT&T. Many horror stories about people using their iPhones and then getting bills for thousands of dollars when they get home. My HTC Touch Pro 2 on Sprint has GSM functionality, so all I have to do is buy a pre-paid SIM card overseas and I can use it fine. And as long as I can get WiFi abroad I can also use my phone normally because I have it set up with Google Voice as my main number. Thanks to Gizmo and Google Voice I can talk for free overseas on WiFi.
  • Reply 76 of 125
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    So 90% of the time you are talking on the phone you are also using the internet? I would hate to have a phone conversation with you. Not only would you be distracted but speaker calls are harder to hear in general. I use the data a lot on my phone, but really don't see the need WHILE i am talking to someone. I have that capability with WiFi and never use it. I doubt I am in the minority here.



    You're missing an obvious use and point here. If you are on a call and you need to look something up per your conversation are you going to grab pen and paper, write down, disco the call, then look it up, then write that down, and finally call them back with the info. I'm not. I do it all while on the call in a very efficient manner.



    I am never on speaker because I am using headphones. This makes the handset a handset and not some device I'm holding directly in front of me 12 inches from my mouth. There is absolutely no way I'd give up simultaneous voice and data. Even if the price of the plan was cut in half the usefulness of this feature is non negotiable. I feel the same way about Visual Voicemail, and that was a feature few even knew they wanted until they had it.
  • Reply 77 of 125
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Production for the current can't keep up with demand, so you shoot out a bs rumor about Verizon?



    Spare us all! Please.
  • Reply 78 of 125
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,742member
    Fantasy drivel. Not gonna happen.
  • Reply 79 of 125
    s4mb4s4mb4 Posts: 267member
    more BS to feed the AT&T haters....

    nothing to see here, move along.
  • Reply 80 of 125
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    You're missing an obvious use and point here. If you are on a call and you need to look something up per your conversation are you going to grab pen and paper, write down, disco the call, then look it up, then write that down, and finally call them back with the info. I'm not. I do it all while on the call in a very efficient manner.



    I am never on speaker because I am using headphones. This makes the handset a handset and not some device I'm holding directly in front of me 12 inches from my mouth. There is absolutely no way I'd give up simultaneous voice and data. Even if the price of the plan was cut in half the usefulness of this feature is non negotiable. I feel the same way about Visual Voicemail, and that was a feature few even knew they wanted until they had it.



    No, I am not missing the point. I can do all of that now with Wifi and I never do it. Now I can see the usefulness of that, don't get me wrong but for me that is really not a feature I use now on wifi or would use on an iPhone either over 3G. And why would you think we would need to get a pen and paper? During a call I can take notes right on the phone, and access other apps like text messaging or email. I can even record the calls. Can you do that with an iPhone?



    Voicemail is also going the way of the Dodo. I rarely even get a voicemail anymore, most of my friends just tend to text me. I get a lot of calls but very few voicemails because most people just tend to hang up before they leave a message. And usually the message is just to call them back anyway which is the same message that a missed calls conveys. A few years ago I got more voicemails than texts, but that has completely reversed recently. I average about 600 texts a month.
Sign In or Register to comment.