You do understand that both AT&T and Verizon will still have to support both their legacy networks when they bring out LTE.
Yes for maybe 2 or 3 years maximum, as the expense to maintain two incompatible networks would be expensive and not make sense long-term. Once LTE rollout is mostly complete CDMA will die quickly.
The iPhone has supported T-Mobile's GSM frequencies since version 3. T-Mobile also was Apple's exclusive carrier in a few countries, so there is a successful relationship in place.
In light of those two facts, the sensible move would be to expand to T-Mobile before Verizon.
It would also shit all over Google's phone (Nexus One), since that one is T-Mobile exclusive. Furthermore, T-Mobile is upgrading their entire network to HSPA+, which gives you almost 4G speeds, on 3G handsets! So there would be a nice retroactive gain for the established handset base.
Bonus for me: T-Mobile has 3G where I live, AT&T doesn't (grrrr).
Yes for maybe 2 or 3 years maximum, as the expense to maintain two incompatible networks would be expensive and not make sense long-term. Once LTE rollout is mostly complete CDMA will die quickly.
Again, LTE will displace EVDO first and then CDMA years later. Verizon will probably not even have any LTE phones until late 2011. Most LTE devices will be data only at first like their mifi devices. For voice calls on LTE, they will need to transition to VoIP and that will take a LONG time to fully implement. CDMA will still be the primary method for voice calls on Verizon for a long while yet. Any LTE handsets on Verizon will still need a CDMA radio for many years to come. Verizon itself estimated that to be another 5 years at the earliest.
No, I am not missing the point. I can do all of that now with Wifi and I never do it. Now I can see the usefulness of that, don't get me wrong but for me that is really not a feature I use now on wifi or would use on an iPhone either over 3G. And why would you think we would need to get a pen and paper? During a call I can take notes right on the phone, and access other apps like text messaging or email. I can even record the calls. Can you do that with an iPhone?
Voicemail is also going the way of the Dodo. I rarely even get a voicemail anymore, most of my friends just tend to text me. I get a lot of calls but very few voicemails because most people just tend to hang up before they leave a message. And usually the message is just to call them back anyway which is the same message that a missed calls conveys. A few years ago I got more voicemails than texts, but that has completely reversed recently. I average about 600 texts a month.
...many commenters make is assuming the relevancy of their personal experience translates directly to the average consumer. You need to get out more perhaps, or perhaps you don't multitask well. Either way (warning: anecdotal observation) I see people out and about talking and using another feature on their phones routinely, outside wifi zones, including iPhone users talking and surfing, talking and looking up a location in Maps, talking and checking for a restaurant in Urbanspoon, and so on. So your experience may vary widely from the norm. However please observe you had to leverage Google Voice to gain a certain level of functionality built into the iPhone (and many Android phones as well). Without having to rely on a wifi connection to do it. And therein lays one of the points - the Verizon system doesn't support a basic functionality that millions of users now expect from their cellphones. Likewise most, if not all the top carriers in the US have deveoped a form of visual voicemail akin to the same implemented by ATT for the iPhone. It is now a expected feature.
As to your feautre points - yes I can check email, take notes etc. on my iPhone while on a call. It's OK you can enjoy your phone while I enjoy mine. And if you call I'll even be able to listen to you and respond while finding us a nice place to eat, outside a wifi zone even!
again, lte will displace evdo first and then cdma years later. Verizon will probably not even have any lte phones until late 2011. Most lte devices will be data only at first like their mifi devices. For voice calls on lte, they will need to transition to voip and that will take a long time to fully implement. Cdma will still be the primary method for voice calls on verizon for a long while yet. Any lte handsets on verizon will still need a cdma radio for many years to come. Verizon itself estimated that to be another 5 years at the earliest.
And why would you think we would need to get a pen and paper? During a call I can take notes right on the phone, and access other apps like text messaging or email.
I believe part of your original comment was about using it a speaker phone, thus focusing on using your phone as anything other than phone while on a call as being unwanted and unwarranted.
I find this useful and I use it excessively. I know others don't and don't think it's odd that don't, but for me and many others it's a feature we do not want to give up... ever.
Umm?exactly how do you know that? Did you not read the headline and article? So let me get this straight?Apple is going to produce a CDMA iPhone just for China when the iPhone has lukewarm sales there and they have knockoffs that are a third the price?
When it comes to trusting you or the WSJ, I'll trust the WSJ.
Suppose I'm Steve Jobs and this story is true, my strategy would be selling this CDMA phone for the China market, gauge the reactions and shortcomings while at the same time let Verizon drools.... Along with their customer until the time is right i.e. it will be among one of the last resort strategy but I doubt I would need that (just let them get the LTE version instead).
Makes sense. Apple is saving all of the white iPhones for Verizon. This way, you can tell the good guys from the bad guys. Verizon = White, AT&T = Black.
It this point, I think all bets are off on exclusivity. Of course Apple has planned for the day it jumps to another US carrier, just as it is on multiple carriers overseas. But the kicker is Android. As soon as AT&T started carrying Android phones, they have to let Apple compete on other carriers. At first exclusivity of iPhone and the lack of a non-windows smart phone competitor worked fine. But now consumers have a greater choice of smart phones on various carriers, and now that includes AT&T. If Apple has to compete on AT&T with Droid, it should be allowed to compete with it elsewhere as well. We've learned that it's not JUST about the phone, but also the carrier, and that's a choice a lot of us have given up for the iPhone. I'm willing to wait it out with my 3G iphone until January - even next summer if need be - without re-upping with AT&T for 2 more years.
why else do you think ATT allowed everyone with a contract expiring anytime in 2010 to upgrade to iPhone 4? they want to lock us all into new 2-year contracts before the VZWiPhone4 is announced.
[or did you think they did it our of the kindness of their hearts?]
...this may have already been posted in this thread, i usually try to read everything before posting, no time rn...
No, I am not expecting that my phone habits are the norm, but neither should you. Most people on AT&T are not using an iPhone. So even on AT&T, that type of usage is far from the norm since feature phones still greatly outnumber smart phones. I don't need to use an app to find a restaurant, so you will have to give a better example than that. What did you do before you had an iPhone, starve or never go out to eat? My built in GPS in my car is far better than an iPhone for finding restaurants by the way and I can easily multitask by using that while simultaneously talking to you via bluetooth through the car speakers. I am not attacking the iPhone, I think it is a great phone and would certainly get one if it comes to Sprint. But for me, the killer feature of a phone is reliable voice coverage and no dropped calls. At least where I live, AT&T sucks. If you live within a city where AT&T has good coverage, congrats but I don't. So the iPhone is not an option for me because it would make a poor phone.
P.S. my boyfriend has an iPhone, and we spend almost every day together so it is not like I don't know what I am talking about. Even he has to use my Sprint phone many times to make actual calls. We also often go out of town every week-end and once you get into rural areas he often has no signal at all while I still have great coverage. I am just not willing to put up with spotty coverage and dropped calls even if it is an iPhone. Even he is considering getting an EVO and not the new iPhone because he is getting sick and tired of the spotty coverage even though he loves his iPhone in all other respects. Saving him about $60 a month doesn't hurt either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav
...many commenters make is assuming the relevancy of their personal experience translates directly to the average consumer. You need to get out more perhaps, or perhaps you don't multitask well. Either way (warning: anecdotal observation) I see people out and about talking and using another feature on their phones routinely, outside wifi zones, including iPhone users talking and surfing, talking and looking up a location in Maps, talking and checking for a restaurant in Urbanspoon, and so on. So your experience may vary widely from the norm. However please observe you had to leverage Google Voice to gain a certain level of functionality built into the iPhone (and many Android phones as well). Without having to rely on a wifi connection to do it. And therein lays one of the points - the Verizon system doesn't support a basic functionality that millions of users now expect from their cellphones. Likewise most, if not all the top carriers in the US have deveoped a form of visual voicemail akin to the same implemented by ATT for the iPhone. It is now a expected feature.
As to your feautre points - yes I can check email, take notes etc. on my iPhone while on a call. It's OK you can enjoy your phone while I enjoy mine. And if you call I'll even be able to listen to you and respond while finding us a nice place to eat, outside a wifi zone even!
Best Buy is probably taking pre-orders on Verizon iPhones.
Right you are solipsism, I stood in line well over 12 minutes with the Best Buy salesman and when I finally showed him the story posted on Appleinsider that's all it took. I plopped down my $200 and walked out knowing I'll be the first person with a iPhone 4 on Verizon.
Here in the UK, as far as I know, an iPhone is an iPhone is an iPhone. That is, any iPhone will run on any of our networks - O2, Orange, Vodaphone. All you need is the requisite SIMM card for a particular network. I don't think the phones are manufactured to a particular mobile network brand. We use 3G networks here. Are they superior to what AT&T and Verizon's CDMA have to offer?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe your governments got together & regulated that the cell industry agree upon 1 standard so that individuals couldn't get locked into 1 provider. In the US this is not the case so all these providers chose different technologies for whatever reason & now we have a mess. With the move to 4G I believe this will be largely resolved as it will be a brand new network for all built upon a single technology type.
AT&T 3G is not much different from what you all use but CDMA is very different and chipsets for it are not at all compatible with your systems.
I'm not the expert though so I might be off on some of that, someone might be able to expand more on the issue.
Enough already. Been there, done that.....many times. Ain't gonna happen on CDMA.
I think the elephant in the corner is that GSM is already the backbone for most cell networks around the world & at this point no one would be wise to buy a CMDA iPhone unless it was capable of both CDMA & GSM. Otherwise when CDMA goes the way of the dodo (which it will some day) people will be stuck with a phone that doesn't work anywhere anymore. Course by the time that happens it may be an obsolete device anyway. Verizon may be the US market leader but Apple is probably more likely to go T-Mobile first.
P.S. the new iPhone does support UTMS, which is the direction most carriers are moving for 4G.
How many more times does DigitTimes need to publish a completely fictitious story before tech sites stop realise that they're not a credible news source?
You can get away with that because all of the networks in the UK (and Europe) use the same frequencies and encoding so that one radio will work with all of them. Once you're connected to the carrier's network, the SIMM card provides authentication so that you can use a particular network.
Actually according to the CDG there are several CDMA2000 (etc) networks in Europe.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
I saw an HTC EVO phone with Android 2.1... which has multi-tasking on Sprint (CDMA?), I believe.
I was thinking that the system software (iOS4) would handle the multi-tasking even if the network hardware didn't. Am I wrong in my reasoning.
Interesting points, but we'll see. The Wall Street Journal is not known for publishing unsubstantiated rumors though. There was a 5 year agreement, but terms can change, especially with all of AT&T's problems. I personally am waiting a few months to see if the Verizon iPhone rumors for this fall pan out. If not, I am moving to a Droid. Love the iPhone, can't take another minute of AT&T's abysmal service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict
The boy keeps crying wolf, and the sheep want to see the wolf so bad they keep running to look everytime.
Apple said in court that they had a 5 year agreement with AT&T, that would take them until July 2012. There is no public info that suggests the contract has been invalidated or modified. They needed AT&T as a partner to change the mobile phone paradigm and to introduce visual voicemail. Once they had AT&T they were able to get other carriers on board with shorter terms, but AT&T took a huge gamble on Apple, and Apple had to give them the extended exclusivity in order to get them to do so. Deal with it, we ALL benefited, even if you are a Verizon customer with a Droid, to a large extent you owe a thanks to the Apple and AT&T deal for making it possible.
Verizon is doing just fine for now without the iPhone, and they have plenty of infrastructure issues to fix before they could handle a huge rush of iPhone users. They are probably plenty happy to sell Android phones and Blackberry devices until they get their LTE rollout across most of the US. Download speeds on their current 3G network are now significantly slower than the other 3 major vendors, and LTE chips are not available for handsets yet, so Verizon is probably happy to wait another year or more for the LTE iphone. It may or may not still need a CDMA fallback, but it will still give "switchers" a much better first impression if their new Verizon iPhone is faster rather than half the speed.
These rumors are great for stock traders, people in the media, and Verizon, so don't expect them to ever stop. Every idiot who believes this and who does not renew with AT&T or who decides not to leave Verizon is a big win for the Verizon rumor mill. Go ahead and keep living your life in limbo waiting for vaporware. You are being used.
Nice rewriting of history. Apple wanted to go with Verizon first but Verizon wouldn't agree to Apple's terms. Apple then went to AT&T.
Good and valid point. Apple is more than willing to make a CDMA phone because the cost vs. rewards of such an undertaking would be minimal. I think the reason there is still no Verizon iPhone is because Verizon is still being, well..Verizon and stubborn. They are probably unwilling to make the concessions Apple is demanding. Verizon and Apple are similar in a lot of respects in corporate culture in the sense that neither think they have to negotiate and both want their way.
The best way to force Verizon to accept their demands would be to release an iPhone on Sprint and T-Mobile and not for Verizon. AT&T, SPrint, and T-Mobile combined would dwarf Verizon and leave them little choice but to agree to any and all terms Apple wants.
Comments
You do understand that both AT&T and Verizon will still have to support both their legacy networks when they bring out LTE.
Yes for maybe 2 or 3 years maximum, as the expense to maintain two incompatible networks would be expensive and not make sense long-term. Once LTE rollout is mostly complete CDMA will die quickly.
In light of those two facts, the sensible move would be to expand to T-Mobile before Verizon.
It would also shit all over Google's phone (Nexus One), since that one is T-Mobile exclusive. Furthermore, T-Mobile is upgrading their entire network to HSPA+, which gives you almost 4G speeds, on 3G handsets! So there would be a nice retroactive gain for the established handset base.
Bonus for me: T-Mobile has 3G where I live, AT&T doesn't (grrrr).
Yes for maybe 2 or 3 years maximum, as the expense to maintain two incompatible networks would be expensive and not make sense long-term. Once LTE rollout is mostly complete CDMA will die quickly.
Again, LTE will displace EVDO first and then CDMA years later. Verizon will probably not even have any LTE phones until late 2011. Most LTE devices will be data only at first like their mifi devices. For voice calls on LTE, they will need to transition to VoIP and that will take a LONG time to fully implement. CDMA will still be the primary method for voice calls on Verizon for a long while yet. Any LTE handsets on Verizon will still need a CDMA radio for many years to come. Verizon itself estimated that to be another 5 years at the earliest.
No, I am not missing the point. I can do all of that now with Wifi and I never do it. Now I can see the usefulness of that, don't get me wrong but for me that is really not a feature I use now on wifi or would use on an iPhone either over 3G. And why would you think we would need to get a pen and paper? During a call I can take notes right on the phone, and access other apps like text messaging or email. I can even record the calls. Can you do that with an iPhone?
Voicemail is also going the way of the Dodo. I rarely even get a voicemail anymore, most of my friends just tend to text me. I get a lot of calls but very few voicemails because most people just tend to hang up before they leave a message. And usually the message is just to call them back anyway which is the same message that a missed calls conveys. A few years ago I got more voicemails than texts, but that has completely reversed recently. I average about 600 texts a month.
...many commenters make is assuming the relevancy of their personal experience translates directly to the average consumer. You need to get out more perhaps, or perhaps you don't multitask well. Either way (warning: anecdotal observation) I see people out and about talking and using another feature on their phones routinely, outside wifi zones, including iPhone users talking and surfing, talking and looking up a location in Maps, talking and checking for a restaurant in Urbanspoon, and so on. So your experience may vary widely from the norm. However please observe you had to leverage Google Voice to gain a certain level of functionality built into the iPhone (and many Android phones as well). Without having to rely on a wifi connection to do it. And therein lays one of the points - the Verizon system doesn't support a basic functionality that millions of users now expect from their cellphones. Likewise most, if not all the top carriers in the US have deveoped a form of visual voicemail akin to the same implemented by ATT for the iPhone. It is now a expected feature.
As to your feautre points - yes I can check email, take notes etc. on my iPhone while on a call. It's OK you can enjoy your phone while I enjoy mine. And if you call I'll even be able to listen to you and respond while finding us a nice place to eat, outside a wifi zone even!
again, lte will displace evdo first and then cdma years later. Verizon will probably not even have any lte phones until late 2011. Most lte devices will be data only at first like their mifi devices. For voice calls on lte, they will need to transition to voip and that will take a long time to fully implement. Cdma will still be the primary method for voice calls on verizon for a long while yet. Any lte handsets on verizon will still need a cdma radio for many years to come. Verizon itself estimated that to be another 5 years at the earliest.
Q f T
And why would you think we would need to get a pen and paper? During a call I can take notes right on the phone, and access other apps like text messaging or email.
I believe part of your original comment was about using it a speaker phone, thus focusing on using your phone as anything other than phone while on a call as being unwanted and unwarranted.
I find this useful and I use it excessively. I know others don't and don't think it's odd that don't, but for me and many others it's a feature we do not want to give up... ever.
Umm?exactly how do you know that? Did you not read the headline and article? So let me get this straight?Apple is going to produce a CDMA iPhone just for China when the iPhone has lukewarm sales there and they have knockoffs that are a third the price?
When it comes to trusting you or the WSJ, I'll trust the WSJ.
Suppose I'm Steve Jobs and this story is true, my strategy would be selling this CDMA phone for the China market, gauge the reactions and shortcomings while at the same time let Verizon drools.... Along with their customer until the time is right i.e. it will be among one of the last resort strategy but I doubt I would need that (just let them get the LTE version instead).
Just a thought
[or did you think they did it our of the kindness of their hearts?]
...this may have already been posted in this thread, i usually try to read everything before posting, no time rn...
P.S. my boyfriend has an iPhone, and we spend almost every day together so it is not like I don't know what I am talking about. Even he has to use my Sprint phone many times to make actual calls. We also often go out of town every week-end and once you get into rural areas he often has no signal at all while I still have great coverage. I am just not willing to put up with spotty coverage and dropped calls even if it is an iPhone. Even he is considering getting an EVO and not the new iPhone because he is getting sick and tired of the spotty coverage even though he loves his iPhone in all other respects. Saving him about $60 a month doesn't hurt either.
...many commenters make is assuming the relevancy of their personal experience translates directly to the average consumer. You need to get out more perhaps, or perhaps you don't multitask well. Either way (warning: anecdotal observation) I see people out and about talking and using another feature on their phones routinely, outside wifi zones, including iPhone users talking and surfing, talking and looking up a location in Maps, talking and checking for a restaurant in Urbanspoon, and so on. So your experience may vary widely from the norm. However please observe you had to leverage Google Voice to gain a certain level of functionality built into the iPhone (and many Android phones as well). Without having to rely on a wifi connection to do it. And therein lays one of the points - the Verizon system doesn't support a basic functionality that millions of users now expect from their cellphones. Likewise most, if not all the top carriers in the US have deveoped a form of visual voicemail akin to the same implemented by ATT for the iPhone. It is now a expected feature.
As to your feautre points - yes I can check email, take notes etc. on my iPhone while on a call. It's OK you can enjoy your phone while I enjoy mine. And if you call I'll even be able to listen to you and respond while finding us a nice place to eat, outside a wifi zone even!
Best Buy is probably taking pre-orders on Verizon iPhones.
Right you are solipsism, I stood in line well over 12 minutes with the Best Buy salesman and when I finally showed him the story posted on Appleinsider that's all it took. I plopped down my $200 and walked out knowing I'll be the first person with a iPhone 4 on Verizon.
Here in the UK, as far as I know, an iPhone is an iPhone is an iPhone. That is, any iPhone will run on any of our networks - O2, Orange, Vodaphone. All you need is the requisite SIMM card for a particular network. I don't think the phones are manufactured to a particular mobile network brand. We use 3G networks here. Are they superior to what AT&T and Verizon's CDMA have to offer?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe your governments got together & regulated that the cell industry agree upon 1 standard so that individuals couldn't get locked into 1 provider. In the US this is not the case so all these providers chose different technologies for whatever reason & now we have a mess. With the move to 4G I believe this will be largely resolved as it will be a brand new network for all built upon a single technology type.
AT&T 3G is not much different from what you all use but CDMA is very different and chipsets for it are not at all compatible with your systems.
I'm not the expert though so I might be off on some of that, someone might be able to expand more on the issue.
Enough already. Been there, done that.....many times. Ain't gonna happen on CDMA.
I think the elephant in the corner is that GSM is already the backbone for most cell networks around the world & at this point no one would be wise to buy a CMDA iPhone unless it was capable of both CDMA & GSM. Otherwise when CDMA goes the way of the dodo (which it will some day) people will be stuck with a phone that doesn't work anywhere anymore. Course by the time that happens it may be an obsolete device anyway. Verizon may be the US market leader but Apple is probably more likely to go T-Mobile first.
P.S. the new iPhone does support UTMS, which is the direction most carriers are moving for 4G.
You can get away with that because all of the networks in the UK (and Europe) use the same frequencies and encoding so that one radio will work with all of them. Once you're connected to the carrier's network, the SIMM card provides authentication so that you can use a particular network.
Actually according to the CDG there are several CDMA2000 (etc) networks in Europe.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
I saw an HTC EVO phone with Android 2.1... which has multi-tasking on Sprint (CDMA?), I believe.
I was thinking that the system software (iOS4) would handle the multi-tasking even if the network hardware didn't. Am I wrong in my reasoning.
I think this rumor is pushed by people with interest in Verizon stock. The logic Apple used to not go with Verizon in the first place still stands.
Nice rewriting of history. Apple wanted to go with Verizon first but Verizon wouldn't agree to Apple's terms. Apple then went to AT&T.
The boy keeps crying wolf, and the sheep want to see the wolf so bad they keep running to look everytime.
Apple said in court that they had a 5 year agreement with AT&T, that would take them until July 2012. There is no public info that suggests the contract has been invalidated or modified. They needed AT&T as a partner to change the mobile phone paradigm and to introduce visual voicemail. Once they had AT&T they were able to get other carriers on board with shorter terms, but AT&T took a huge gamble on Apple, and Apple had to give them the extended exclusivity in order to get them to do so. Deal with it, we ALL benefited, even if you are a Verizon customer with a Droid, to a large extent you owe a thanks to the Apple and AT&T deal for making it possible.
Verizon is doing just fine for now without the iPhone, and they have plenty of infrastructure issues to fix before they could handle a huge rush of iPhone users. They are probably plenty happy to sell Android phones and Blackberry devices until they get their LTE rollout across most of the US. Download speeds on their current 3G network are now significantly slower than the other 3 major vendors, and LTE chips are not available for handsets yet, so Verizon is probably happy to wait another year or more for the LTE iphone. It may or may not still need a CDMA fallback, but it will still give "switchers" a much better first impression if their new Verizon iPhone is faster rather than half the speed.
These rumors are great for stock traders, people in the media, and Verizon, so don't expect them to ever stop. Every idiot who believes this and who does not renew with AT&T or who decides not to leave Verizon is a big win for the Verizon rumor mill. Go ahead and keep living your life in limbo waiting for vaporware. You are being used.
Nice rewriting of history. Apple wanted to go with Verizon first but Verizon wouldn't agree to Apple's terms. Apple then went to AT&T.
Good and valid point. Apple is more than willing to make a CDMA phone because the cost vs. rewards of such an undertaking would be minimal. I think the reason there is still no Verizon iPhone is because Verizon is still being, well..Verizon and stubborn. They are probably unwilling to make the concessions Apple is demanding. Verizon and Apple are similar in a lot of respects in corporate culture in the sense that neither think they have to negotiate and both want their way.
The best way to force Verizon to accept their demands would be to release an iPhone on Sprint and T-Mobile and not for Verizon. AT&T, SPrint, and T-Mobile combined would dwarf Verizon and leave them little choice but to agree to any and all terms Apple wants.