Hackers release 'jailbreak' of iOS 4 for Apple's iPhone 3GS

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Comments

  • Reply 161 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post


    I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.



    Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.





    Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.



    Took you long enough



    As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.
  • Reply 162 of 180
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adrian.oconnor View Post


    Like it or not, you are being a twat. Are you just trolling?



    Given that you appear to be such a rabid fan boy and given the position you are taking, it's mildly ironic to think that Jobs and Wozniak's first venture was a hardware device to let you steal phone calls from the AT&T phone network.



    Jailbreaking isn't about stealing, it's about doing what you want. If nobody questioned the status quo, if everybody, as you advocate, just fell in behind these conscience-less corporations, the world would be an truly awful place.



    Jailbreakers are, for the most part, not pirates. They just won't accept no for an answer.



    Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.



    What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.



    Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.
  • Reply 163 of 180
    You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    He didn't work around shit. He chose to pay for a different service offered by his carrier as an alternative option. The carrier allows him to pay for tethering, so he is. This is exactly the same as if he had opted for using tethering to get his laptop online instead of buying a separate 3G stick and plan just for the laptop.



    He isn't acting like he has some kind of moral high ground. He has the moral high ground. He is paying explicitly for what he is doing exactly as his is supposed to pay for using it.



    You have called him a thief repeatedly, even after it has been repeatedly and clearly explained to you, even using small words for your benefit. It is probably time for the mods to hand out some infractions and perhaps simply ban you as you contribute nothing but inexcusable confusion and repeated, unfounded accusations.



    You call him a thief, even though he can in no way be considered a thief for his described actions. People could call you names and insult you for continuing to fail to understand your mistakes, but they don't because we are grown ups.



  • Reply 164 of 180
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,541member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post


    You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.



    My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.



    People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.
  • Reply 165 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post


    You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.



    I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.



    I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.



    No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.



    I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.
  • Reply 166 of 180
    But you keep answering me. There must be some need to get my approval.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.



    People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.



  • Reply 167 of 180
    Wow! Someone doth protest too much!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.



    I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.



    No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.



    I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.



  • Reply 168 of 180
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,541member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post


    Wow! Someone doth protest too much!



    I've reported you and imagine others will too, it's become

    Obvious that you are simply a troll who gets his kicks out of baiting people.



    You'll get no further resposes out of me.
  • Reply 169 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post


    Wow! Someone doth protest too much!



    No protestation. Simply trying to educate your. Obviously a failed attempt.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post


    But you keep answering me. There must be some need to get my approval.



    Huge difference between seeking your approval and someone trying to explain your mistake and why your accusations and insults are misplaced. I no longer expect you can understand this.



    As saarek has said, I am done with you. You have proven you are unable to admit or even recognize your errors, so I will leave you to wallow in ignorance.
  • Reply 170 of 180
    hezetationhezetation Posts: 674member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Took you long enough



    As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.



    Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.



    I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.



    All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.



    If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.
  • Reply 171 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post


    Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.



    I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.



    All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.



    If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.



    Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.



    Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.
  • Reply 172 of 180
    hezetationhezetation Posts: 674member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.



    Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.



    I've been called worse things than idealistic.
  • Reply 173 of 180
    I apologize to saarek and Tulkas for not letting this go easily. I have set my bar for theft at an unreasonable level.
  • Reply 174 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post


    I've been called worse things than idealistic.



    If we didn't have idealists, we wouldn't have Apple. Unfortunately for the idealists, reality always shows up
  • Reply 175 of 180
    I apologize to saarek for calling him a thief.
  • Reply 176 of 180
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.



    What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.



    I was using the term Jailbreaking generally, to encompass all of the things that were being discussed, and in particular the wi-fi hotspot utility.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.



    There you go again...



    Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.
  • Reply 177 of 180
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adrian.oconnor View Post


    {Casual mention of DMCA}



    There you go again...



    Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.



    I'm sorry that I happen to be a law-abiding citizen and that you are offended by the thought that anyone would take the law seriously.
  • Reply 178 of 180
    robogoborobogobo Posts: 378member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post


    I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.



    Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.





    Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.



    I take back what I said about you being a fucking idiot and all that. I guess you're ok. Rare someone will own up around these parts.
  • Reply 179 of 180
    lfmorrisonlfmorrison Posts: 698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    His plan does not allow him to do what he's doing. I don't care whether it's $0.50 per month or $50,000 per month. He's doing something that he knows is not covered by his contract.



    He owns an iPhone. He has a plan with O2 that says he is allowed to use his iPhone to tether to other devices. His iPhone's software is limited such that it cannot tether through the means required by his other device. AS FAR AS O2 IS CONCERNED, WHAT HE IS DOING IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER HIS PLAN TERMS. THE PROBLEM IS TOTALLY A LIMITATION WITHIN THE IPHONE'S SOFTWARE, NOT A RESTRICTION OF THE CARRIER'S PLAN. GOT IT YET?
  • Reply 180 of 180
    eagle7eagle7 Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That's right. AT&T says it's wrong. You do NOT have the right to do what you're doing under your contract.



    I agree that it's unreasonable. If tethering mattered to me, I'd choose a different phone and/or provider. But that doesn't change the fact that you admit that WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ALLOWED BY YOUR CONTRACT.



    You are taking a service that is not part of your contract. Period.



    [...]

    As I said, no sense of right or wrong any more.



    jragosta: I think it's ironic that you point your little Nancy-do-right finger at the consumer, when

    it's the mobile service providers that have no sense of right and wrong. "That's right AT&T says it wrong." - what other thoughts does AT&T specify for you?
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