I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.
Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.
Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.
Took you long enough
As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.
Like it or not, you are being a twat. Are you just trolling?
Given that you appear to be such a rabid fan boy and given the position you are taking, it's mildly ironic to think that Jobs and Wozniak's first venture was a hardware device to let you steal phone calls from the AT&T phone network.
Jailbreaking isn't about stealing, it's about doing what you want. If nobody questioned the status quo, if everybody, as you advocate, just fell in behind these conscience-less corporations, the world would be an truly awful place.
Jailbreakers are, for the most part, not pirates. They just won't accept no for an answer.
Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.
What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.
Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.
You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
He didn't work around shit. He chose to pay for a different service offered by his carrier as an alternative option. The carrier allows him to pay for tethering, so he is. This is exactly the same as if he had opted for using tethering to get his laptop online instead of buying a separate 3G stick and plan just for the laptop.
He isn't acting like he has some kind of moral high ground. He has the moral high ground. He is paying explicitly for what he is doing exactly as his is supposed to pay for using it.
You have called him a thief repeatedly, even after it has been repeatedly and clearly explained to you, even using small words for your benefit. It is probably time for the mods to hand out some infractions and perhaps simply ban you as you contribute nothing but inexcusable confusion and repeated, unfounded accusations.
You call him a thief, even though he can in no way be considered a thief for his described actions. People could call you names and insult you for continuing to fail to understand your mistakes, but they don't because we are grown ups.
You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.
My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.
People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.
You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.
I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.
I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.
No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.
I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.
But you keep answering me. There must be some need to get my approval.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.
People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.
I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.
I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.
No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.
I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.
No protestation. Simply trying to educate your. Obviously a failed attempt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim
But you keep answering me. There must be some need to get my approval.
Huge difference between seeking your approval and someone trying to explain your mistake and why your accusations and insults are misplaced. I no longer expect you can understand this.
As saarek has said, I am done with you. You have proven you are unable to admit or even recognize your errors, so I will leave you to wallow in ignorance.
As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.
Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.
I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.
All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.
If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.
Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.
I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.
All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.
If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.
Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.
Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.
Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.
Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.
Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.
What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.
I was using the term Jailbreaking generally, to encompass all of the things that were being discussed, and in particular the wi-fi hotspot utility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.
There you go again...
Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.
Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.
I'm sorry that I happen to be a law-abiding citizen and that you are offended by the thought that anyone would take the law seriously.
I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.
Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.
Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.
I take back what I said about you being a fucking idiot and all that. I guess you're ok. Rare someone will own up around these parts.
His plan does not allow him to do what he's doing. I don't care whether it's $0.50 per month or $50,000 per month. He's doing something that he knows is not covered by his contract.
He owns an iPhone. He has a plan with O2 that says he is allowed to use his iPhone to tether to other devices. His iPhone's software is limited such that it cannot tether through the means required by his other device. AS FAR AS O2 IS CONCERNED, WHAT HE IS DOING IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER HIS PLAN TERMS. THE PROBLEM IS TOTALLY A LIMITATION WITHIN THE IPHONE'S SOFTWARE, NOT A RESTRICTION OF THE CARRIER'S PLAN. GOT IT YET?
That's right. AT&T says it's wrong. You do NOT have the right to do what you're doing under your contract.
I agree that it's unreasonable. If tethering mattered to me, I'd choose a different phone and/or provider. But that doesn't change the fact that you admit that WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ALLOWED BY YOUR CONTRACT.
You are taking a service that is not part of your contract. Period.
[...]
As I said, no sense of right or wrong any more.
jragosta: I think it's ironic that you point your little Nancy-do-right finger at the consumer, when
it's the mobile service providers that have no sense of right and wrong. "That's right AT&T says it wrong." - what other thoughts does AT&T specify for you?
Comments
I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.
Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.
Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.
Took you long enough
As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.
Like it or not, you are being a twat. Are you just trolling?
Given that you appear to be such a rabid fan boy and given the position you are taking, it's mildly ironic to think that Jobs and Wozniak's first venture was a hardware device to let you steal phone calls from the AT&T phone network.
Jailbreaking isn't about stealing, it's about doing what you want. If nobody questioned the status quo, if everybody, as you advocate, just fell in behind these conscience-less corporations, the world would be an truly awful place.
Jailbreakers are, for the most part, not pirates. They just won't accept no for an answer.
Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.
What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.
Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.
He didn't work around shit. He chose to pay for a different service offered by his carrier as an alternative option. The carrier allows him to pay for tethering, so he is. This is exactly the same as if he had opted for using tethering to get his laptop online instead of buying a separate 3G stick and plan just for the laptop.
He isn't acting like he has some kind of moral high ground. He has the moral high ground. He is paying explicitly for what he is doing exactly as his is supposed to pay for using it.
You have called him a thief repeatedly, even after it has been repeatedly and clearly explained to you, even using small words for your benefit. It is probably time for the mods to hand out some infractions and perhaps simply ban you as you contribute nothing but inexcusable confusion and repeated, unfounded accusations.
You call him a thief, even though he can in no way be considered a thief for his described actions. People could call you names and insult you for continuing to fail to understand your mistakes, but they don't because we are grown ups.
You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.
My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.
People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.
You want to ban me because I don't make you feel good and tell you you are okay and agree with you? You can do anything you want, you don't need my permission, and you won't get it.
I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.
I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.
No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.
I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.
My goodness I can't believe that you can be such an ignorant person, no one is asking you for permission.
People are simply pointing out that you are factually wrong, you have no leg to stand on, your opionion is null and void...... there are probably other ways to point out that you are plain, flat out, simply wrong but I can no longer be bothered to deal with you.
I'd be open to seeing you banned because you name call, insult and make baseless accusations. You fail to understand simple concepts, even when repeatedly explained to you.
I was hoping you might actually understand the mistakes you have made. If it was an honest mistake, fine. But at this point, it is either intentional or personal limitations.
No one is looking to you for permission. Why would anyone seek your permissions for perfectly legal activities? You really don't get that, do you? You might be so confused you think they are somehow illegal or theft, but that is your own problem. My problem is when you make accusations against people here that have no basis in reality.
I am serious. Have someone else read this thread to you. They will, perhaps, be better able to explain it to you in spoken english. Reading yourself it doesn't seem to be working for you. No dig there, at all. You just seem unable to understand what is being written here.
Wow! Someone doth protest too much!
I've reported you and imagine others will too, it's become
Obvious that you are simply a troll who gets his kicks out of baiting people.
You'll get no further resposes out of me.
Wow! Someone doth protest too much!
No protestation. Simply trying to educate your. Obviously a failed attempt.
But you keep answering me. There must be some need to get my approval.
Huge difference between seeking your approval and someone trying to explain your mistake and why your accusations and insults are misplaced. I no longer expect you can understand this.
As saarek has said, I am done with you. You have proven you are unable to admit or even recognize your errors, so I will leave you to wallow in ignorance.
Took you long enough
As for your plea to the hackers, it can't happen. The point of the 'hacking' is to allow more openness and flexibility to the platform and devices that they love. The downside to openness and flexibility is that, by definition, it removes the restrictions that would limit piracy. Piracy can probably never be prevented technologically.
Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.
I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.
All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.
If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.
Those with the knowledge have the power and therefore the responsibility. I had an uncle who worked on the atomic bomb project. Though he did not drop the bomb, he still feels guilt and remorse that the technology he helped create was used for such destruction.
I know you can't keep people from doing anything they want, but if you are going to hack something and then provide an easy way for anyone and everyone else to do the same just realize you opened a pandora's box.
All I'm saying is it should never be taken lightly. One of the founding principles of the US constitution is that those who have the ability or the power to take action against injustice have the responsibility.
If we want the world to be a better place then we must all take into account the consequences of our actions. This is why I apologized for what I said, I opened my big mouth & rightfully got blasted for my narrow-mindedness. I had an atomic bomb moment. Even if my actions don't wipe out a whole city, I still take the consequences of what I do that seriously.
Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.
Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.
Nothing wrong with your line of thought here. But, it is idealistic. The reality is, that the openness itself that is provided by jailbreaking, is also what allows piracy. Similarly, Apple allows iTunes to rip CDs, which could be used to aid in pirating CDs. The only way to prevent this, would be for Apple to remove the feature itself.
Many things that are developed with good intentions can also be used for bad. The only way to prevent the bad is to also prevent the good. In the case of jailbreaking, the only way to prevent it being used for piracy would be to prevent the jailbreak. That is why is it unrealistic to ask the devs to allow jailbreaking but prevent piracy. The good allows the bad.
I've been called worse things than idealistic.
I've been called worse things than idealistic.
If we didn't have idealists, we wouldn't have Apple. Unfortunately for the idealists, reality always shows up
Where did I ever say that all jailbreakers were stealing? You're simply imagining that.
What I DID say is that if you use jailbreaking to steal services, that it's theft.
I was using the term Jailbreaking generally, to encompass all of the things that were being discussed, and in particular the wi-fi hotspot utility.
Of course, there's the little matter of DMCA that may apply even if you're not stealing anything.
There you go again...
Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.
{Casual mention of DMCA}
There you go again...
Look, your opinion appears to be so ultra-conservative and apologetic towards big corporations that we are never going to agree. Either you are so privileged and self-serving that you will never understand, or maybe you're just still really young, in which case you will understand better when you grow up. Or maybe you just started by playing devil's advocate and you can't back down. This whole thread has got a bit silly.
I'm sorry that I happen to be a law-abiding citizen and that you are offended by the thought that anyone would take the law seriously.
I will apologize, reading back over my comments I realize I spoke rashly and did not see how deeply offensive my comments were to many. Some of my hacker friends set me straight, and if I'm wrong then I must man up and admit when I'm wrong.
Big thanks to seek3r, your last statement expanded my view of hacking a bit, I made a flamboyant statement and I deserved the backlash I received.
Plea to the hackers, if the intentions are noble please find a way to prevent the piracy. The rest of us are at the mercy of your exploration and discovery.
I take back what I said about you being a fucking idiot and all that. I guess you're ok. Rare someone will own up around these parts.
His plan does not allow him to do what he's doing. I don't care whether it's $0.50 per month or $50,000 per month. He's doing something that he knows is not covered by his contract.
He owns an iPhone. He has a plan with O2 that says he is allowed to use his iPhone to tether to other devices. His iPhone's software is limited such that it cannot tether through the means required by his other device. AS FAR AS O2 IS CONCERNED, WHAT HE IS DOING IS PERMISSIBLE UNDER HIS PLAN TERMS. THE PROBLEM IS TOTALLY A LIMITATION WITHIN THE IPHONE'S SOFTWARE, NOT A RESTRICTION OF THE CARRIER'S PLAN. GOT IT YET?
That's right. AT&T says it's wrong. You do NOT have the right to do what you're doing under your contract.
I agree that it's unreasonable. If tethering mattered to me, I'd choose a different phone and/or provider. But that doesn't change the fact that you admit that WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ALLOWED BY YOUR CONTRACT.
You are taking a service that is not part of your contract. Period.
[...]
As I said, no sense of right or wrong any more.
jragosta: I think it's ironic that you point your little Nancy-do-right finger at the consumer, when
it's the mobile service providers that have no sense of right and wrong. "That's right AT&T says it wrong." - what other thoughts does AT&T specify for you?