As of right now, I see a heck of a lot more videos and problems reported from respectable websites than I do of people having no problems.
I seem to recall as many people claiming there's no problem with their handset as people claiming there is. Maybe it's just the way we look at thing? Maybe people who don't have problem just wouldn't want to waste their time posting videos?
One thing for sure the iOS4 need to be fixed for the way it handle cellular sensitivity. This is already acknowledged by Apple. But can they solve this antenna problem altogether? It remain to be seen. It could be the coating problem (or lack thereof) coupled with software bug, who knows. Interesting days ahead that's for sure.
No problems here. Have held it in every way possible. I can make the bars go down if I deliberately want to, but it's difficult to do with normal use. I have never completely lost signal either. Incredible gadget, I must say. Looks like I got lucky... it's a nice little unit.
Many phones have this trouble. With the iPhone 4 that problem has been exacerbated. You can now consistently go from 5 bars to no service because you are directly interfering the antenna. You no longer even have to hold the iPhone. You just have to have your finger covering that area.
On my iPhone 3G (now with my mum) and my iPhone 3GS, haven't encountered any grip-signal problems.
In any case, a new day dawns soon in the USA. We'll see what it brings of this hullabaloo.
I'll wait until this is fixed and I can hold my phone any way I see fit.
Didn't you hear? All you need is an extra accessory thing that you have to pay for but is kinda cool, and all your problems are solved! Forget about the Apple design, or aesthetics, or that the iPhone 4 is supposed to function as-is, just-work, out-of-the-box, it's all about using bumpers to hold your phone any way you like...
In all fairness, we'll see what happens today (25th) to get further clarification on this matter.
Yesterday I posted that my 1Phone 4 did not have the problem... it does. It does not occur immediately, but takes up to a minute to start, then I can get it to repeat fairly easily. Yesterday I was changing hand positions fairly quickly and thus likely not giving it enough time.
It does seem to fluctuate; at home the problem occurred more easily when I was sitting down in a carpeted room, but was less likely to develop while standing on a wooden floor (I live in Japan where we don't wear shoes in the house).
Went to the reseller in town today where they had some on display and I could get those to exhibit the problem as well. Mine and one of the display devices only saw a drop of one or two antenna marks. Another display device did drop to 0. This particular shop has lots of static electricity (and has for some time).
Bought a case for my phone (finally some arrived today), installed it, and the antennas remain at 5.
So, yes, there is an issue. Though readily repeatable, there seems to be some fluctuation in the user's environment, but I am only one test subject. There is also a quick and easy fix: to put a protector on the phone. This is not to say the phone shouldn't work well without a case: it should, and this is a big problem.
I do not recall having a problem with my 3GS, but I put a protector on it very early on and thus likely never noticed. Likely, many users will put protectors on their iPhone 4's and thus never notice the drop in reception. Many will, however, so Apple will need to do something about this.
Likewise, I hope there is no truth to the Steve-message rumor about improper holding technique. If it is real, lots of people will be reasonably upset.
Can't get the actual Apple link... but the meat is this:
“Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.”
Can't get the actual Apple link... but the meat is this:
?Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.?
I was wondering why there were so many good reviews of the phone. My call quality sucks.
As a few tests, I have a nice spot at my desk with perfect reception and full bars.
My 4g in my left hand will fail to get emails, and calls have terrible quality. While getting emails, the phone will drop back to Edge mode before being unable to contact the server.
Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Where I live, Speedtest normally yields very roughly 1.6M down and 0.5M up.
As soon as I invoke the iPhone 4 death grip (more like a touch), the transfer speed dives. If I invoke the death grip before starting the test, Speedtest sits forever at the ping test. As soon as I release, the test moves along and the reported ping time is roughly the length of time I held the death grip.
I added a small piece of electrical tape over the 'seams' (see below) while waiting for my case to come in. My speedtest results showed no difference. Interestingly, unlike most people, my uploads are roughly equal to downloads:
1. Hold phone near top. 5 bars. Download 1145, upnload 1166
2. Cup phone in hand on bottom. 2 bars. Download 1110, upload 1119
3. Small piece of electrical tape covering seam, cup phone in hand on bottom. 4 bars, Download 1145, upload 1120.
The antennae seem to affect the number of bars but not performance (although the performance meter jumped around more in case #2).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitris
I tested the "signal death grip" with my iPhone 3gs and it also has the same issue with the iPhone 4.
The interesting thing though is that even though the phone has no signal at all
when I make a call the signal goes back up even though I still hold it with the "signal death grip"!!
If I let go of the grip the signal goes back up even further.
So I don't really know what to think but maybe it's a software issue after all?
I believe that there are two issues involved.
1. The normal behavior of all phones to have variable signal intensity depending on how they're held, proximity to the body, etc. There are plenty of reports that all phones suffer this problem. This is simply a result of the fact that the human body absorbs the signal and Apple has no way to override the laws of physics. I suspect that this is what Apple was referring to when they talk about the way users hold their phone.
2. The antennae are very close together on the iPhone 4 and it is easy to touch both anntennae at the same time. This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
I added a small piece of electrical tape over the 'seams' (see below) while waiting for my case to come in. My speedtest results showed no difference. Interestingly, unlike most people, my uploads are roughly equal to downloads:
1. Hold phone near top. 5 bars. Download 1145, upnload 1166
2. Cup phone in hand on bottom. 2 bars. Download 1110, upload 1119
3. Small piece of electrical tape covering seam, cup phone in hand on bottom. 4 bars, Download 1145, upload 1120.
The antennae seem to affect the number of bars but not performance (although the performance meter jumped around more in case #2).
I believe that there are two issues involved.
1. The normal behavior of all phones to have variable signal intensity depending on how they're held, proximity to the body, etc. There are plenty of reports that all phones suffer this problem. This is simply a result of the fact that the human body absorbs the signal and Apple has no way to override the laws of physics. I suspect that this is what Apple was referring to when they talk about the way users hold their phone.
2. The antennae are very close together on the iPhone 4 and it is easy to touch both anntennae at the same time. This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
Well said. Unfortunately, for now at least, it seems Apple's response is to acknowledge the issue as a non-issue-"hold it differently".
This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
It's already shorted somewhere inside through the electronic board. You can check it with a multimeter, the resistance is less than 0.5 Ohms. So the resistance of your hand does not contribute at all. Apparently, its' a capacitive coupling and tape just physically distances the hand from the antenna thus decreasing the coupling. The thicker the gap the better.
I agree that even the bars are reduced, the SpeedTest does not decrease, in some cases I even observed an increase. My numbers are about 2Mp for download and 1Mp for upload.
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
Did you not read my previous post? I believe I asked nicely for no one else here to utter the phrase "free bumper". Now maybe didn't read my post, or maybe you took me too literally, so I will re-phrase for your benefit. Please, for the sake of SANITY, no one else mention anything about Apple giving a free case of any kind as a resolution to this problem.
This is NOT an acceptable fix for the problem. If Apple belives something is wrong and therefore should do something to address the situation, then they just need ot bite the bullet and fix or replace affected phones.
I have no clue at this point if the issues are cosmetic, or software glitches, or hardware related. It's too early to tell. However, if it is in any way a hardware problem, then a free case WILL NOT be satisfactory.
Why would any intelligent consumer pay hundreds of dollars and sign a two year commitment only to be told you have to buy a case for it to work right? Or in one scenario, someone suggested Apple give out gift cards. No, this isn't okay either. We should NOT want to be compensated for it not working, we should just insist that it be made to work as advertised, or refunded.
Don't settle for less than you are worth. Demand the best!
Comments
As of right now, I see a heck of a lot more videos and problems reported from respectable websites than I do of people having no problems.
I seem to recall as many people claiming there's no problem with their handset as people claiming there is. Maybe it's just the way we look at thing? Maybe people who don't have problem just wouldn't want to waste their time posting videos?
One thing for sure the iOS4 need to be fixed for the way it handle cellular sensitivity. This is already acknowledged by Apple. But can they solve this antenna problem altogether? It remain to be seen. It could be the coating problem (or lack thereof) coupled with software bug, who knows. Interesting days ahead that's for sure.
<-----is kind of glad she decided to wait until the dust settled.....
Still enjoying my 3GS which works perfectly. I'll wait until this is fixed and I can hold my phone any way I see fit.
Whatever it is it's not a design flaw. It happened to 3G and 3GS as well and it didn't happen to every 4s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zehL4z__G-o
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=950228
Many phones have this trouble. With the iPhone 4 that problem has been exacerbated. You can now consistently go from 5 bars to no service because you are directly interfering the antenna. You no longer even have to hold the iPhone. You just have to have your finger covering that area.
On my iPhone 3G (now with my mum) and my iPhone 3GS, haven't encountered any grip-signal problems.
In any case, a new day dawns soon in the USA. We'll see what it brings of this hullabaloo.
<-----is kind of glad she decided to wait until the dust settled.....
OMG there's actually a female on this forum. Welcome.
I'll wait until this is fixed and I can hold my phone any way I see fit.
Didn't you hear? All you need is an extra accessory thing that you have to pay for but is kinda cool, and all your problems are solved! Forget about the Apple design, or aesthetics, or that the iPhone 4 is supposed to function as-is, just-work, out-of-the-box, it's all about using bumpers to hold your phone any way you like...
In all fairness, we'll see what happens today (25th) to get further clarification on this matter.
It does seem to fluctuate; at home the problem occurred more easily when I was sitting down in a carpeted room, but was less likely to develop while standing on a wooden floor (I live in Japan where we don't wear shoes in the house).
Went to the reseller in town today where they had some on display and I could get those to exhibit the problem as well. Mine and one of the display devices only saw a drop of one or two antenna marks. Another display device did drop to 0. This particular shop has lots of static electricity (and has for some time).
Bought a case for my phone (finally some arrived today), installed it, and the antennas remain at 5.
So, yes, there is an issue. Though readily repeatable, there seems to be some fluctuation in the user's environment, but I am only one test subject. There is also a quick and easy fix: to put a protector on the phone. This is not to say the phone shouldn't work well without a case: it should, and this is a big problem.
I do not recall having a problem with my 3GS, but I put a protector on it very early on and thus likely never noticed. Likely, many users will put protectors on their iPhone 4's and thus never notice the drop in reception. Many will, however, so Apple will need to do something about this.
Likewise, I hope there is no truth to the Steve-message rumor about improper holding technique. If it is real, lots of people will be reasonably upset.
So get a "bumper" too. Probably a good idea anyway, to protect the edges (and antenna) if you drop the phone.
It just works!
SCNR
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16407...rss_cwbloggers
Can't get the actual Apple link... but the meat is this:
“Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.”
Not good, IMO.
Apple has acknowledged the issue, in a way:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16407...rss_cwbloggers
Can't get the actual Apple link... but the meat is this:
?Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.?
Not good, IMO.
Translation:
"Hold different."
Translation:
"Hold different."
I was wondering why there were so many good reviews of the phone. My call quality sucks.
As a few tests, I have a nice spot at my desk with perfect reception and full bars.
My 4g in my left hand will fail to get emails, and calls have terrible quality. While getting emails, the phone will drop back to Edge mode before being unable to contact the server.
Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Where I live, Speedtest normally yields very roughly 1.6M down and 0.5M up.
As soon as I invoke the iPhone 4 death grip (more like a touch), the transfer speed dives. If I invoke the death grip before starting the test, Speedtest sits forever at the ping test. As soon as I release, the test moves along and the reported ping time is roughly the length of time I held the death grip.
I added a small piece of electrical tape over the 'seams' (see below) while waiting for my case to come in. My speedtest results showed no difference. Interestingly, unlike most people, my uploads are roughly equal to downloads:
1. Hold phone near top. 5 bars. Download 1145, upnload 1166
2. Cup phone in hand on bottom. 2 bars. Download 1110, upload 1119
3. Small piece of electrical tape covering seam, cup phone in hand on bottom. 4 bars, Download 1145, upload 1120.
The antennae seem to affect the number of bars but not performance (although the performance meter jumped around more in case #2).
I tested the "signal death grip" with my iPhone 3gs and it also has the same issue with the iPhone 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXpGGrB_hg
The interesting thing though is that even though the phone has no signal at all
when I make a call the signal goes back up even though I still hold it with the "signal death grip"!!
If I let go of the grip the signal goes back up even further.
So I don't really know what to think but maybe it's a software issue after all?
I believe that there are two issues involved.
1. The normal behavior of all phones to have variable signal intensity depending on how they're held, proximity to the body, etc. There are plenty of reports that all phones suffer this problem. This is simply a result of the fact that the human body absorbs the signal and Apple has no way to override the laws of physics. I suspect that this is what Apple was referring to when they talk about the way users hold their phone.
2. The antennae are very close together on the iPhone 4 and it is easy to touch both anntennae at the same time. This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
I added a small piece of electrical tape over the 'seams' (see below) while waiting for my case to come in. My speedtest results showed no difference. Interestingly, unlike most people, my uploads are roughly equal to downloads:
1. Hold phone near top. 5 bars. Download 1145, upnload 1166
2. Cup phone in hand on bottom. 2 bars. Download 1110, upload 1119
3. Small piece of electrical tape covering seam, cup phone in hand on bottom. 4 bars, Download 1145, upload 1120.
The antennae seem to affect the number of bars but not performance (although the performance meter jumped around more in case #2).
I believe that there are two issues involved.
1. The normal behavior of all phones to have variable signal intensity depending on how they're held, proximity to the body, etc. There are plenty of reports that all phones suffer this problem. This is simply a result of the fact that the human body absorbs the signal and Apple has no way to override the laws of physics. I suspect that this is what Apple was referring to when they talk about the way users hold their phone.
2. The antennae are very close together on the iPhone 4 and it is easy to touch both anntennae at the same time. This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
Well said. Unfortunately, for now at least, it seems Apple's response is to acknowledge the issue as a non-issue-"hold it differently".
This apparently shorts things and causes the number of bars to drop. It is not yet 100% clear if the signal is really dropping. My data suggests that the signal really is OK, just the bar levels are off. That is essentially what Apple told Mossberg and claims to be able to fix it. Apple needs to release this software update ASAP.
It's already shorted somewhere inside through the electronic board. You can check it with a multimeter, the resistance is less than 0.5 Ohms. So the resistance of your hand does not contribute at all. Apparently, its' a capacitive coupling and tape just physically distances the hand from the antenna thus decreasing the coupling. The thicker the gap the better.
I agree that even the bars are reduced, the SpeedTest does not decrease, in some cases I even observed an increase. My numbers are about 2Mp for download and 1Mp for upload.
Come down, people
Excellent. Kudos to you sir (or madam). I like your style.
How about just wearing a glove on your left hand? That way the iPhone will retain its beauty.
can it be a bright white glove with sequins/crystals?
Ooh, and can I also have a chimp named Bubbles?
...
HOWEVER, there are reports that #2 also causes dropped calls. I'm not sure that anyone has done enough controlled experiments to know that this isn't just 'normal' AT&T behavior. IF IT DOES TURN OUT TO BE REAL, then it appears to be a design problem related to the placement of unprotected anntennae. If that turns out to be the case, I would hope and expect that Apple would:
a. Make whatever design changes are needed so that future phones do not have the problem.
b. Repair or replace existing phones. Alternatively, they might offer the customer a choice of a free case (or credit so they can buy their own) or a full refund.
Did you not read my previous post? I believe I asked nicely for no one else here to utter the phrase "free bumper". Now maybe didn't read my post, or maybe you took me too literally, so I will re-phrase for your benefit. Please, for the sake of SANITY, no one else mention anything about Apple giving a free case of any kind as a resolution to this problem.
This is NOT an acceptable fix for the problem. If Apple belives something is wrong and therefore should do something to address the situation, then they just need ot bite the bullet and fix or replace affected phones.
I have no clue at this point if the issues are cosmetic, or software glitches, or hardware related. It's too early to tell. However, if it is in any way a hardware problem, then a free case WILL NOT be satisfactory.
Why would any intelligent consumer pay hundreds of dollars and sign a two year commitment only to be told you have to buy a case for it to work right? Or in one scenario, someone suggested Apple give out gift cards. No, this isn't okay either. We should NOT want to be compensated for it not working, we should just insist that it be made to work as advertised, or refunded.
Don't settle for less than you are worth. Demand the best!