All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
This doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
This doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
When will people learn not to buy 1st iteration hardware from Apple (and others too)? Invariably Apple's 1st gen hardware comes with warts and the iPhone 4 wars are pretty spectacular. Apple really should have done a better job with testing, or if they did, it just goes to show they have contempt for their customers, of which I am one (Mac Mini, Macbook Pro 13", iPhone 3GS, iPod 5.5). Ha, provide a phone with a problem and then refuse to provide a free bumper. Instead charge $29 for a $2 piece of rubber.
After this fiasco, I most likely will drop my iPhone for an android or just go back to a dumb phone. Unlike what Apple says, I can hold my 3GS in any manner and my reception is not affected...not that it is great anyway. I have had much more trouble with the iPhone/AT&T than I ever did with Sprint.
Next summer we will see if this mess has worked itself out....
[What scares me is that people are more concerned about their iPhones than the oil spill in the GOM. If folks were to check out what many engineers are saying regarding fixing this torrent of oil - if it can be fixed - they would stop bitching about their phones as a whole]
Wow, I can't believe the level of denials, and the arrogant way customers are being treated by Apple. I put a case around my iPhone IV, and it helps. However, the phone still looses the signal in 2-3 minutes rather than 20-30 seconds.
I really think this is, potentially, a securities law issue because this appears to be a very material problem that Apple seems to be covering up. Also, some of the conflicting statements really concern me. By not openly and honestly addressing the signal issue, you have to really start doubting the integrity of the executive officers and board.
If the phones are all defective & need to be recalled, Apple should just do it.
If there is a software / service configuration fix, then Apple should say that.
Why can't they just tell all of us the truth about what is going on?
IMO, to blame users or deny the problem, is VERY dishonest and people should be held accountable for that conduct. While this isn't a BP level issue, it's not OK for companies to act like this.
Exactly why I have been branded a troll round here. People are in denial and calling me "negative". Apple crossed the line here. I'll be highly recommending against the iPhone 4 on principle alone. This just showed Apple at their worst.
Apple's policy of "not appeasing" iPhone 4 customers unhappy with the reception problems of their newly purchased phones surely reflects incredibly poor business judgment. Especially when the fix is as simple as supplying customers with bumpers rather than charging them another $30.00 to make their phones fully functional. It appears that fantastic success has bred a culture of amazing dumbness and arrogance at Apple. This is the kind of "small" issue that can cut a company's share price in half over a year or so. It's happened again and again in the history of American business and people do not seem to learn. What a shame!
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
Actually, the article went on to state that at the -113dB level, the iPhone 4 outperformed the 3GS. So yes, placing the antenna on the outside where it can be subjected to significant attenuation, it does (at least according to the article) appear to perform better under those low signal strength conditions. I've only had my phone a day, but I haven't dropped any calls yet. One thing I do notice is that the iPhone 4 is reporting less "signal strength" than my wife's 3G when both are placed side by side.
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
Yet,
Quote:
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dB (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dB as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
Stop confounding the 2 separate issues here. The first issue, which you and the above quote are referring to is a non-issue: The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use. The second issue related to bridging the seam seems to be a real issue. If you were more rational on this topic, you might get more traction and not be perceived as having gone off the deep end.
Exactly why I have been branded a troll round here. People are in denial and calling me "negative". Apple crossed the line here. I'll be highly recommending against the iPhone 4 on principle alone. This just showed Apple at their worst.
No, people are branding you a troll and calling you negative because you're completely irrational on this topic. You're in a hysterical frenzy which no amount of fact and logic can penetrate. Pull yourself together, reclaim your reason, and maybe you'll be taken seriously again.
When I pick up my iPhone and put it in my left hand the left corner of the iPhone naturally fits snuggly in my palm, as I hold it to the side of my face to make a call it stays in exactly the same position and quickly leads to a failed call.
Maybe your anatomy is different than mine, but if I hold the lower left corner cupped in the palm of my hand and then hold the phone to my ear with the bottom normally oriented near my mouth, my left elbow is twisted into the middle of my chest-hardly a comfortable way to hold a phone.
For me, the most comfortable position is my thumb just below the volume buttons and my middle and ring fingers just over the SIM slot - quite a distance from the black strip. That puts my arm and elbow in a comfortable position - and doesn't cause any connection problems.
Actually, the article went on to state that at the -113dB level, the iPhone 4 outperformed the 3GS. So yes, placing the antenna on the outside where it can be subjected to significant attenuation, it does (at least according to the article) appear to perform better under those low signal strength conditions. I've only had my phone a day, but I haven't dropped any calls yet. One thing I do notice is that the iPhone 4 is reporting less "signal strength" than my wife's 3G when both are placed side by side.
Agreed. Not only have I not dropped any calls, but the sound quality is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesong
Apple's policy of "not appeasing" iPhone 4 customers unhappy with the reception problems of their newly purchased phones surely reflects incredibly poor business judgment. Especially when the fix is as simple as supplying customers with bumpers rather than charging them another $30.00 to make their phones fully functional. It appears that fantastic success has bred a culture of amazing dumbness and arrogance at Apple. This is the kind of "small" issue that can cut a company's share price in half over a year or so. It's happened again and again in the history of American business and people do not seem to learn. What a shame!
The problem is that available evidence indicates that the problem is minor for most people holding their phones normally and Apple has stated that there will be a software fix. Running around giving away hardware when a simple software fix will fix the problem (and when the majority of people don't have a problem, anyway) is going to be WORSE for Apple from a PR standpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
This [Anand's article] doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
Actually, it does. They address the effects of holding the phone in various ways - including 'cupping it in the hand' which is one way to get the seam issues.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
The first part of your post does kind of suck, but it seems as if they are at least being straightforward with you.
I have to say though, the second part of your post makes the most sense to me. This is personally what my reaction would be if I had a problematic iPhone 4. My wife has one and as this is her first iPhone she is still adjusting to it. I put a bumper on it before I ever even left the store, so I honestly don't can about the antenna short issue. I am however hoping that a software update might further improve reception stability related to another piece I saw about the frequency switching.
Anyway, thanks for responding with what I think is the most level headed and practical response to this issue.
When will people learn not to buy 1st iteration hardware from Apple (and others too)? Invariably Apple's 1st gen hardware comes with warts and the iPhone 4 wars are pretty spectacular. Apple really should have done a better job with testing, or if they did, it just goes to show they have contempt for their customers, of which I am one (Mac Mini, Macbook Pro 13", iPhone 3GS, iPod 5.5). Ha, provide a phone with a problem and then refuse to provide a free bumper. Instead charge $29 for a $2 piece of rubber.
After this fiasco, I most likely will drop my iPhone for an android or just go back to a dumb phone. Unlike what Apple says, I can hold my 3GS in any manner and my reception is not affected...not that it is great anyway. I have had much more trouble with the iPhone/AT&T than I ever did with Sprint.
Next summer we will see if this mess has worked itself out....
[What scares me is that people are more concerned about their iPhones than the oil spill in the GOM. If folks were to check out what many engineers are saying regarding fixing this torrent of oil - if it can be fixed - they would stop bitching about their phones as a whole]
Well, it's give and take. I got the iPhone 3G which was the new design... It was okay. My Macbook Aluminum showed some problems but after the technicians replaced some parts (these problems developed after a year or so) things are better. My iPad which I have to stop talking about in every post seems okay so far. Still testing it though. The trick is not to completely avoid 1st gen products especially at this rate of innovation, but see a few weeks on what turns up and then see if and how Apple rectify it.
Actually, it does. They address the effects of holding the phone in various ways - including 'cupping it in the hand' which is one way to get the seam issues.
Not necessarily. "Cupping it in the hand," is too vague to say with certainty that it actually bridges the seam consistently. For that, there's a very specific test that's been demonstrated that is unambiguous as to what exactly is happening.
It does not seem as though normal holding really represents a problem. But bridging the seam, which could happen, but doesn't necessarily happen, when "cupping it in the hand" does seem to be a real problem, on some, but not all, phones.
Apple has stated no such thing {that there would be a software fix}.
Actually, they did. Read Mossberg's review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Not necessarily. "Cupping it in the hand," is too vague to say with certainty that it actually bridges the seam consistently. For that, there's a very specific test that's been demonstrated that is unambiguous as to what exactly is happening.
It does not seem as though normal holding really represents a problem. But bridging the seam, which could happen, but doesn't necessarily happen, when "cupping it in the hand" does seem to be a real problem, on some, but not all, phones.
The point is that holding it cupped in your hand while holding it to your face is extremely awkward and not something that most people are likely to do. The way most people are going to old it will not have the bottom of the phone covered with your palm.
The point is that holding it cupped in your hand while holding it to your face is extremely awkward and not something that most people are likely to do. The way most people are going to old it will not have the bottom of the phone covered with your palm.
"Yet, in some places where the signal was relatively weak, the iPhone 4 showed no bars, or fewer bars than its predecessor. Apple says that this is a bug it plans to fix, and that it has to do with the way the bars are presented, not the actual ability to make a call. And, in fact, in nearly all of these cases, the iPhone 4 was able to place calls despite the lack of bars."
Apple was referring to a misrepresentation of bars that will be fixed in software, not an actual loss of service, loss of connection speed, lack of data access, or any of these REAL issues people are complaining about. There is a bug fix for a possible misrepresentation, yes. A bug fix for those with impacted service? That has been yet to be discussed.
Comments
All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2
Very interesting read, thanks. It would certainly seem to explain my results. Either way, I can't complain.
All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2
This doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
All iPhone 4's are affected. There is a reason you are not seeing the issue at your particular location. Here's a new, detailed scientific test/review of the iPhone 4 antenna issue -
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2
Yeah I agree. They write some amazing articles over there.
This doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
After this fiasco, I most likely will drop my iPhone for an android or just go back to a dumb phone. Unlike what Apple says, I can hold my 3GS in any manner and my reception is not affected...not that it is great anyway. I have had much more trouble with the iPhone/AT&T than I ever did with Sprint.
Next summer we will see if this mess has worked itself out....
[What scares me is that people are more concerned about their iPhones than the oil spill in the GOM. If folks were to check out what many engineers are saying regarding fixing this torrent of oil - if it can be fixed - they would stop bitching about their phones as a whole]
Wow, I can't believe the level of denials, and the arrogant way customers are being treated by Apple. I put a case around my iPhone IV, and it helps. However, the phone still looses the signal in 2-3 minutes rather than 20-30 seconds.
I really think this is, potentially, a securities law issue because this appears to be a very material problem that Apple seems to be covering up. Also, some of the conflicting statements really concern me. By not openly and honestly addressing the signal issue, you have to really start doubting the integrity of the executive officers and board.
If the phones are all defective & need to be recalled, Apple should just do it.
If there is a software / service configuration fix, then Apple should say that.
Why can't they just tell all of us the truth about what is going on?
IMO, to blame users or deny the problem, is VERY dishonest and people should be held accountable for that conduct. While this isn't a BP level issue, it's not OK for companies to act like this.
Exactly why I have been branded a troll round here. People are in denial and calling me "negative". Apple crossed the line here. I'll be highly recommending against the iPhone 4 on principle alone. This just showed Apple at their worst.
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
Actually, the article went on to state that at the -113dB level, the iPhone 4 outperformed the 3GS. So yes, placing the antenna on the outside where it can be subjected to significant attenuation, it does (at least according to the article) appear to perform better under those low signal strength conditions. I've only had my phone a day, but I haven't dropped any calls yet. One thing I do notice is that the iPhone 4 is reporting less "signal strength" than my wife's 3G when both are placed side by side.
Yeah, and the iPhone 4 you'll notice is affected by holding the phone is a regular manner way more than the 3G S. I think you'll find that makes the iPhone have worse reception when you're holing it, without a case, which is the way some people like to hold it. From where I'm standing that's a step backwards with regards to antenna design of the iPhone 4 compared to the 2G, the 3G and the 3G S.
Yet,
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dB (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dB as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
Stop confounding the 2 separate issues here. The first issue, which you and the above quote are referring to is a non-issue: The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use. The second issue related to bridging the seam seems to be a real issue. If you were more rational on this topic, you might get more traction and not be perceived as having gone off the deep end.
Exactly why I have been branded a troll round here. People are in denial and calling me "negative". Apple crossed the line here. I'll be highly recommending against the iPhone 4 on principle alone. This just showed Apple at their worst.
No, people are branding you a troll and calling you negative because you're completely irrational on this topic. You're in a hysterical frenzy which no amount of fact and logic can penetrate. Pull yourself together, reclaim your reason, and maybe you'll be taken seriously again.
uhm, no ...?
don't masturbate next to the wall, you'll injure your wrist?
You still can do it, just change your hand
When I pick up my iPhone and put it in my left hand the left corner of the iPhone naturally fits snuggly in my palm, as I hold it to the side of my face to make a call it stays in exactly the same position and quickly leads to a failed call.
Maybe your anatomy is different than mine, but if I hold the lower left corner cupped in the palm of my hand and then hold the phone to my ear with the bottom normally oriented near my mouth, my left elbow is twisted into the middle of my chest-hardly a comfortable way to hold a phone.
For me, the most comfortable position is my thumb just below the volume buttons and my middle and ring fingers just over the SIM slot - quite a distance from the black strip. That puts my arm and elbow in a comfortable position - and doesn't cause any connection problems.
Actually, the article went on to state that at the -113dB level, the iPhone 4 outperformed the 3GS. So yes, placing the antenna on the outside where it can be subjected to significant attenuation, it does (at least according to the article) appear to perform better under those low signal strength conditions. I've only had my phone a day, but I haven't dropped any calls yet. One thing I do notice is that the iPhone 4 is reporting less "signal strength" than my wife's 3G when both are placed side by side.
Agreed. Not only have I not dropped any calls, but the sound quality is better.
Apple's policy of "not appeasing" iPhone 4 customers unhappy with the reception problems of their newly purchased phones surely reflects incredibly poor business judgment. Especially when the fix is as simple as supplying customers with bumpers rather than charging them another $30.00 to make their phones fully functional. It appears that fantastic success has bred a culture of amazing dumbness and arrogance at Apple. This is the kind of "small" issue that can cut a company's share price in half over a year or so. It's happened again and again in the history of American business and people do not seem to learn. What a shame!
The problem is that available evidence indicates that the problem is minor for most people holding their phones normally and Apple has stated that there will be a software fix. Running around giving away hardware when a simple software fix will fix the problem (and when the majority of people don't have a problem, anyway) is going to be WORSE for Apple from a PR standpoint.
This [Anand's article] doesn't address the seam issue at all. This just describes the manner in which iP4s are affected by the signal/antenna problems that affects all cell phones.
Actually, it does. They address the effects of holding the phone in various ways - including 'cupping it in the hand' which is one way to get the seam issues.
Apple has stated that there will be a software fix.
Apple has stated no such thing.
Apple hiring iPhone antenna engineers for some reason
Maybe they should have done that the first time
Unbelievably hilarious. My iPad has some decent 3G reception so far, I am testing it now.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
The first part of your post does kind of suck, but it seems as if they are at least being straightforward with you.
I have to say though, the second part of your post makes the most sense to me. This is personally what my reaction would be if I had a problematic iPhone 4. My wife has one and as this is her first iPhone she is still adjusting to it. I put a bumper on it before I ever even left the store, so I honestly don't can about the antenna short issue. I am however hoping that a software update might further improve reception stability related to another piece I saw about the frequency switching.
Anyway, thanks for responding with what I think is the most level headed and practical response to this issue.
When will people learn not to buy 1st iteration hardware from Apple (and others too)? Invariably Apple's 1st gen hardware comes with warts and the iPhone 4 wars are pretty spectacular. Apple really should have done a better job with testing, or if they did, it just goes to show they have contempt for their customers, of which I am one (Mac Mini, Macbook Pro 13", iPhone 3GS, iPod 5.5). Ha, provide a phone with a problem and then refuse to provide a free bumper. Instead charge $29 for a $2 piece of rubber.
After this fiasco, I most likely will drop my iPhone for an android or just go back to a dumb phone. Unlike what Apple says, I can hold my 3GS in any manner and my reception is not affected...not that it is great anyway. I have had much more trouble with the iPhone/AT&T than I ever did with Sprint.
Next summer we will see if this mess has worked itself out....
[What scares me is that people are more concerned about their iPhones than the oil spill in the GOM. If folks were to check out what many engineers are saying regarding fixing this torrent of oil - if it can be fixed - they would stop bitching about their phones as a whole]
Well, it's give and take. I got the iPhone 3G which was the new design... It was okay. My Macbook Aluminum showed some problems but after the technicians replaced some parts (these problems developed after a year or so) things are better. My iPad which I have to stop talking about in every post seems okay so far. Still testing it though. The trick is not to completely avoid 1st gen products especially at this rate of innovation, but see a few weeks on what turns up and then see if and how Apple rectify it.
Actually, it does. They address the effects of holding the phone in various ways - including 'cupping it in the hand' which is one way to get the seam issues.
Not necessarily. "Cupping it in the hand," is too vague to say with certainty that it actually bridges the seam consistently. For that, there's a very specific test that's been demonstrated that is unambiguous as to what exactly is happening.
It does not seem as though normal holding really represents a problem. But bridging the seam, which could happen, but doesn't necessarily happen, when "cupping it in the hand" does seem to be a real problem, on some, but not all, phones.
Apple has stated no such thing {that there would be a software fix}.
Actually, they did. Read Mossberg's review.
Not necessarily. "Cupping it in the hand," is too vague to say with certainty that it actually bridges the seam consistently. For that, there's a very specific test that's been demonstrated that is unambiguous as to what exactly is happening.
It does not seem as though normal holding really represents a problem. But bridging the seam, which could happen, but doesn't necessarily happen, when "cupping it in the hand" does seem to be a real problem, on some, but not all, phones.
The point is that holding it cupped in your hand while holding it to your face is extremely awkward and not something that most people are likely to do. The way most people are going to old it will not have the bottom of the phone covered with your palm.
Actually, they did. Read Mossberg's review.
The point is that holding it cupped in your hand while holding it to your face is extremely awkward and not something that most people are likely to do. The way most people are going to old it will not have the bottom of the phone covered with your palm.
"Yet, in some places where the signal was relatively weak, the iPhone 4 showed no bars, or fewer bars than its predecessor. Apple says that this is a bug it plans to fix, and that it has to do with the way the bars are presented, not the actual ability to make a call. And, in fact, in nearly all of these cases, the iPhone 4 was able to place calls despite the lack of bars."
Apple was referring to a misrepresentation of bars that will be fixed in software, not an actual loss of service, loss of connection speed, lack of data access, or any of these REAL issues people are complaining about. There is a bug fix for a possible misrepresentation, yes. A bug fix for those with impacted service? That has been yet to be discussed.