Do you know that an above normal percent of the 2.5-3 million devices are experiencing the real issue?
Do you know that Apple won't resolve any real issue? problems to the satisfaction of the customer, regardless of return window (including: refund, replacement, compensation, etc)?
I don't know you-- but you appear (according to your posts) to be a whiny complainer.
I know Apple! They make excellent products. They pride themselves in customer satisfaction!
My bet is on Apple!
.
Not a complainer at all. I expect new release items and software to have issue. I too agree Apple has made excellent products, I've bought them almost exclusively since 1987. I have or have had over 40 Apple products over that span of time. I do have a problem with the way Apple is dealing with this. As they have grown into a giant their customer service has declined.
I obviously don't know for sure what will happen, but the tone of the company does not bode well for a true fix for those that are having the problem.
still will not explain or help actual contact with the antennas. in other words - DESIGN FAIL.
so the software will hide the flaw and ATT can continue to be the bad guy. touché!
While I don't really care for the explanation Apple has put forth, I have noticed that other cellphones on AT&T have done the same thing in regards to signal reporting. WIndows smartphones, BB's, my old Moto SLVR, an imported Sony Ericsson V800, an original Handspring Treo 600, and an old Nokia 3360. They ALL would go from full strength to zipo for no reason sometimes, in areas where they would usually show full strength.
Could it be that we expected the phone call quality and reliability to be improved with the iPhone 4? I kinda did when Steve Jobs at D8 said things would get worse before they get better. Is this the getting worse part? Ok, so Apple explains the signal gaffe, but do they address other issues about interference and maybe they should have rethought moving the antenna to the sides. I have defended them in the past week to try to come up with a truthful explanation, but this comes off to me as an insult to the purchasers of this product.
Maybe it's just me, but reading between the lines I'm getting a message that says this problem, is due to AT&Ts signal still being weak, if you really hate it, return it while Apple beats up AT&T and quietly fixes the antenna issue when they ship more iPhones in late July.
Being a long time AT&T customer, I feel your pain in regards to crappy phone reception. I don't have a iPhone 4 yet, as I am waiting for white. I did setup a clients Verizon Droid Incredible and I gotta say it's really!!!!! Mediocre... It's like a bizarro iPhone, and if you thought the keyboard sucked on the first iPhone OS, just try this one. It's fast on their network though, and the call quality is good, you just can't do both at the same time.
So if you stay with iPhone now, you get a great device with crappy phone reception (again). If you leave now and buy whatever Verizon is selling, you get a great network with a crappy device (well maybe not crappy, but severely downgraded). Or you could return the iPhone and wait till January to see if Bloomberg is FOS or not. Plus when you do that you get to see if Verizon's network takes a big sh*t when every customer buys a Verizon iPhone and taxes the network.
I guess there would be one more option to sue Apple, but really you don't wanna go down that road unless you are really bored and have nothing but time and money. If you're thinking of joining the class action, you will need to keep the phone in order to be eligible as part of the class. If you do, don't get mad at me when all you get is a coupon good at the Apple store for $30 along with your money refunded AFTER you give Apple the phone back and wait 4 to 6 MONTHS. That would be after the action SETTLES which could take years. Just ask the class that's suing Dell right now.
Again, we are only 8 days into the issue. And Apple must be careful how it responds.
As you say, addressing the accuracy problem is good!
Because of all the hysteria, I think they focused on that first.
If a large number of devices (above normal manufacturing defects) have additional problems, I am sure that Apple will address these, too.
I suspect they are, as we speak, looking at the hardware, cell radios, software, etc. to see if there are any other potential exposures/defects.
There are certain "fixes" that are preferred over others-- for obvious reasons (cost). Other "fixes" might involve recall, reengineering with re-submission for FCC approval if the changes are significant.
In 32 years of dealing with Apple, I have found them to do the "right thing" by their customers. That's one of the reasons that Apple's customer satisfaction ratings are among the highest.
.
In my 29/30 years of using and owning Apple products (granted, I started as a child and 'owned' them in the sense that my parents bought them) I have always preferred them and their products. But, this doesn't mean they are above reproach.
OK, let's review. There are 3 issues that may combine to produce call and signal issues:
Attenuation caused by touching the antenna
Complete data service intrruption caused by bridging the seam
Misfuntioning of the proximity sensor
The promised update doesn't actually address any of these, although, it seems that it will more accurately reflect what's going on in relation to the first issue. However, I don't think this was ever really as big an issue as many thought it was.
The third issue, which is probably responsible for at least some "dropped calls", may be quietly addressed by a software update, and since it hasn't really been the focus of a lot of attention it's not too surprising that they haven't specifically mentioned it.
The second issue, which seems to be the most significant real issue, doesn't seem to be addressed at all. Since it doesn't affect all phones, I don't think it's a design issue, which leaves the possibility of some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be hardware (e.g., improper assembly) or software related (e.g., improper firmware version). It will be interesting to see if this issue goes away after the update, or remains as an actual problem. But, it doesn't seem particularly reassuring to me, and I'm sure not to iP4 owners afflicted by this issue, that it remains unaddressed through this announcement.
Consider this...
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.
So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".
Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.
On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
It is entirely possible that it will be quietly addressed through a software update, if that's possible. It's also entirely possible that they haven't yet determined the exact nature of that problem (service loss from bridging the seam). And, yes, the lawsuits probably do constrain their behavior in regard to this issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX
Consider this...
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.
So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".
Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.
On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
Okay. Here's my story. I took my iPhone back to BestBuy and they refused to give me a full refund. They wouldn't refund the sales tax and they charged me the 10% restock fee. So Apple lied and I got screwed.
No they didn't. I'm lying. See how easy it is to spread stupidity at these websites? Can anyone really believe what they read here? I have read Apple's explanation at Apple.com and I will wait to hear from users what the iOS4 update did to mitigate the reception anomaly.
BTW...I don't have an iPhone because I'm one of those silly Verizon holdouts.
Apple may not be admitting it is a problem, but they are saying that touching the lower left corner will result in a 24db signal loss as part of its design. All phones have this because all phones have antenna. It is important to note that despite this Achilles Heel, the iphone 4 is best in its class for signal strength. Would you rather have 24db loss if you hold it wrong or no signal? If you cup your hand around the plastic part of the original iPhone you will have significant signal loss too. I actually think the original iPhone is much worse then the new one, but nobody complained about that. The 3GS has a larger sweet spot, but it is still possible to disrupt the signal. In some ways the new phone is an improvement because it is more difficult to cup you hand around the antenna. If you don't want to hold the phone the way it is designed to be held, you can buy a bumper or case. Most people will be doing this anyway. So basically... if you want to avoid the grip of death, stay off crack.
Lets see when APPLE releases its software update what happens. Don't be fooled that APPLE is creating a software fix that only conforms the bars to the appropriate signal strength I would think the software fix will correct more than that which APPLE won't say or admit to.
i have to admit, i haven't taken the iP4 plunge yet because of all these rumors, test reports, snarky SJ comments and rumor-mills out there...and becaue they haven't put the white phone for sale yet (that was the main reason). Plus, with the iOS4 update on my current iP-3G, i'm pretty content at the moment.
I have to make a side note in all caps for a second. I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS HAND-POSITION/DEATH GRIP ISSUE WITH MY IPHONE 3G!!! SO I CALL FAUL TO APPLE FOR THIS COMMENT ABOUT ALL PHONES HAVING SIMILAR ISSUES.
However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? .
Consider this....
What if Apple already knows that there is a rogue subroutine in the software which will teleport you to Mars if you type a certain sequence of numbers? After all, if we're going to imagine all sorts of bizarre scenarios and conspiracy theories, we might as well make them interesting.
... They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. ...
For this particular issue, the carrier wouldn't make any difference, I don't think. I very much doubt they are calculating the bars differently on different carriers.
Can you even read? The new firmware will report fewer bars , not more. In trying to be snarky and cute you reveal your complete ignorance. Typical of the trolls.
actually - you're showing your complete ignorance. the comment was in reference to the current issue of showing too many bars for weak signals. not in regards to the fix accurately reducing bars in areas with a weak signal.
Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too. This really isn't a big deal. They still sell the 3GS if you want a weaker signal that is harder to disrupt. Personally, I think the tradeoff is worth it.
Maybe they can detect when you touch the phone there and emit a loud warning sound.
However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
That is a very interesting point. This issue is happening in other countries too. I would presume since the phone is using the same GSM tech the issue is the same, but it still was not addressed by Apple.
Lets see when APPLE releases its software update what happens. Don't be fooled that APPLE is creating a software fix that only conforms the bars to the appropriate signal strength I would think the software fix will correct more than that which APPLE won't say or admit to.
Comments
Do you know a real issue exists?
Do you know that an above normal percent of the 2.5-3 million devices are experiencing the real issue?
Do you know that Apple won't resolve any real issue? problems to the satisfaction of the customer, regardless of return window (including: refund, replacement, compensation, etc)?
I don't know you-- but you appear (according to your posts) to be a whiny complainer.
I know Apple! They make excellent products. They pride themselves in customer satisfaction!
My bet is on Apple!
.
Not a complainer at all. I expect new release items and software to have issue. I too agree Apple has made excellent products, I've bought them almost exclusively since 1987. I have or have had over 40 Apple products over that span of time. I do have a problem with the way Apple is dealing with this. As they have grown into a giant their customer service has declined.
I obviously don't know for sure what will happen, but the tone of the company does not bode well for a true fix for those that are having the problem.
more kool aid to feed the fanbois.
still will not explain or help actual contact with the antennas. in other words - DESIGN FAIL.
so the software will hide the flaw and ATT can continue to be the bad guy. touché!
While I don't really care for the explanation Apple has put forth, I have noticed that other cellphones on AT&T have done the same thing in regards to signal reporting. WIndows smartphones, BB's, my old Moto SLVR, an imported Sony Ericsson V800, an original Handspring Treo 600, and an old Nokia 3360. They ALL would go from full strength to zipo for no reason sometimes, in areas where they would usually show full strength.
Could it be that we expected the phone call quality and reliability to be improved with the iPhone 4? I kinda did when Steve Jobs at D8 said things would get worse before they get better. Is this the getting worse part? Ok, so Apple explains the signal gaffe, but do they address other issues about interference and maybe they should have rethought moving the antenna to the sides. I have defended them in the past week to try to come up with a truthful explanation, but this comes off to me as an insult to the purchasers of this product.
Maybe it's just me, but reading between the lines I'm getting a message that says this problem, is due to AT&Ts signal still being weak, if you really hate it, return it while Apple beats up AT&T and quietly fixes the antenna issue when they ship more iPhones in late July.
Being a long time AT&T customer, I feel your pain in regards to crappy phone reception. I don't have a iPhone 4 yet, as I am waiting for white. I did setup a clients Verizon Droid Incredible and I gotta say it's really!!!!! Mediocre... It's like a bizarro iPhone, and if you thought the keyboard sucked on the first iPhone OS, just try this one. It's fast on their network though, and the call quality is good, you just can't do both at the same time.
So if you stay with iPhone now, you get a great device with crappy phone reception (again). If you leave now and buy whatever Verizon is selling, you get a great network with a crappy device (well maybe not crappy, but severely downgraded). Or you could return the iPhone and wait till January to see if Bloomberg is FOS or not. Plus when you do that you get to see if Verizon's network takes a big sh*t when every customer buys a Verizon iPhone and taxes the network.
I guess there would be one more option to sue Apple, but really you don't wanna go down that road unless you are really bored and have nothing but time and money. If you're thinking of joining the class action, you will need to keep the phone in order to be eligible as part of the class. If you do, don't get mad at me when all you get is a coupon good at the Apple store for $30 along with your money refunded AFTER you give Apple the phone back and wait 4 to 6 MONTHS. That would be after the action SETTLES which could take years. Just ask the class that's suing Dell right now.
Again, we are only 8 days into the issue. And Apple must be careful how it responds.
As you say, addressing the accuracy problem is good!
Because of all the hysteria, I think they focused on that first.
If a large number of devices (above normal manufacturing defects) have additional problems, I am sure that Apple will address these, too.
I suspect they are, as we speak, looking at the hardware, cell radios, software, etc. to see if there are any other potential exposures/defects.
There are certain "fixes" that are preferred over others-- for obvious reasons (cost). Other "fixes" might involve recall, reengineering with re-submission for FCC approval if the changes are significant.
In 32 years of dealing with Apple, I have found them to do the "right thing" by their customers. That's one of the reasons that Apple's customer satisfaction ratings are among the highest.
.
In my 29/30 years of using and owning Apple products (granted, I started as a child and 'owned' them in the sense that my parents bought them) I have always preferred them and their products. But, this doesn't mean they are above reproach.
OK, let's review. There are 3 issues that may combine to produce call and signal issues:
- Attenuation caused by touching the antenna
- Complete data service intrruption caused by bridging the seam
- Misfuntioning of the proximity sensor
The promised update doesn't actually address any of these, although, it seems that it will more accurately reflect what's going on in relation to the first issue. However, I don't think this was ever really as big an issue as many thought it was.The third issue, which is probably responsible for at least some "dropped calls", may be quietly addressed by a software update, and since it hasn't really been the focus of a lot of attention it's not too surprising that they haven't specifically mentioned it.
The second issue, which seems to be the most significant real issue, doesn't seem to be addressed at all. Since it doesn't affect all phones, I don't think it's a design issue, which leaves the possibility of some sort of manufacturing issue, which could be hardware (e.g., improper assembly) or software related (e.g., improper firmware version). It will be interesting to see if this issue goes away after the update, or remains as an actual problem. But, it doesn't seem particularly reassuring to me, and I'm sure not to iP4 owners afflicted by this issue, that it remains unaddressed through this announcement.
Consider this...
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.
So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".
Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.
On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
Freudian slip?
Probably.
or was it intentional...
Consider this...
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? I'm thinking if all this is true, then they probably want to save face since Steve has said there is no reception issue. He doesn't want to be wrong in front of the entire world, afterall he is the Worlds Greatest #1 CEO of all time.
So, if they do have a fix that can be administered through a software/firmware update, why not just fold it into the signal strength/bar issue fix that they are coming out with and then they can say, "see, we told you there was no reception issues. Don't worry, we aren't mad at you for accusing us, we still love you Mr. Customer. Just trust us next time, mmmkay?".
Also, the law suit may still go to court, so Apple would also be advised to take this route so they don't admit to any wrongdoing.
On the other hand, they may still not know what the dropped call issue is and need time to investigate. It would be unwise to address the issue if you don't know what the issue is and cannot fix it.
It is ignorant to say someone like Anand is an 'ignorant blogger'.
Didn't Brain and Anand state that reception was indeed better on the iPhone 4?
With all the debates about software fixes and antenna issues. Is it really possible to make a phone that won't drop calls?
No matter what Apple does with the phone it will still drop calls...right?
No they didn't. I'm lying. See how easy it is to spread stupidity at these websites? Can anyone really believe what they read here? I have read Apple's explanation at Apple.com and I will wait to hear from users what the iOS4 update did to mitigate the reception anomaly.
BTW...I don't have an iPhone because I'm one of those silly Verizon holdouts.
Didn't Brain and Anand state that reception was indeed better on the iPhone 4?
Absolutely. Best of the bunch.
They also said it was more prone to signal degradation with contact.
I have to make a side note in all caps for a second. I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS HAND-POSITION/DEATH GRIP ISSUE WITH MY IPHONE 3G!!! SO I CALL FAUL TO APPLE FOR THIS COMMENT ABOUT ALL PHONES HAVING SIMILAR ISSUES.
However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
Consider this...
What if Apple already knows there is a dropped call/data decrease issue? What if they figured out that there is some incorrect firmware/software responsible? Do you think they just want to admit to this for the world to see? .
Consider this....
What if Apple already knows that there is a rogue subroutine in the software which will teleport you to Mars if you type a certain sequence of numbers? After all, if we're going to imagine all sorts of bizarre scenarios and conspiracy theories, we might as well make them interesting.
... They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. ...
For this particular issue, the carrier wouldn't make any difference, I don't think. I very much doubt they are calculating the bars differently on different carriers.
Can you even read? The new firmware will report fewer bars , not more. In trying to be snarky and cute you reveal your complete ignorance. Typical of the trolls.
actually - you're showing your complete ignorance. the comment was in reference to the current issue of showing too many bars for weak signals. not in regards to the fix accurately reducing bars in areas with a weak signal.
Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
They said it was a design limitation. You are not supposed to touch it there. There will be no software fix except to report bars correctly. If you have one bar, you should take extra care to avoid the forbidden crack. If you have five bars then it will not matter. If you had one bar on the original iPhone and covered that plastic antenna cover it would drop your call too. This really isn't a big deal. They still sell the 3GS if you want a weaker signal that is harder to disrupt. Personally, I think the tradeoff is worth it.
Maybe they can detect when you touch the phone there and emit a loud warning sound.
However, I am still a bit sceptical about this letter from Apple. They claim that the method they used was a software thing and not a ATT system. But the test reports came out of England (or at least i think so), where ATT does not exist. I've also read article (here and other blogs) of people in France experience this (or at least where Orange is the service provider). So i'm still skeptical that this is truly a software issue. Furthermore, if it truly is a hardware issue, what happens when the iOS update doesn't come until day 30 of most people's original purchase date? There is no word of when this update will come out?
That is a very interesting point. This issue is happening in other countries too. I would presume since the phone is using the same GSM tech the issue is the same, but it still was not addressed by Apple.
Lets see when APPLE releases its software update what happens. Don't be fooled that APPLE is creating a software fix that only conforms the bars to the appropriate signal strength I would think the software fix will correct more than that which APPLE won't say or admit to.
Hopefully!