Please! Stop! Telling a lie a thousand times doesn't make it the truth.
You may not prefer what they wrote, but which specific claims of fact can you demonstrate are untrue?
Quote:
Most of these stories come from sites that regularly attack Apple. And the third link continues to propagate those fake Steve Jobs emails.
Actually, the third one is from the Examiner, which links to the uncontested exchange in which Jobs said "Just avoid holding it in that way" from more than a week earlier, and does not link to the BGR story.
What if Apple already knows that there is a rogue subroutine in the software which will teleport you to Mars if you type a certain sequence of numbers? After all, if we're going to imagine all sorts of bizarre scenarios and conspiracy theories, we might as well make them interesting.
In case you don't have any intention of replying again, I would ask you to reconsider. Your initial reply definitely has my attention as I cannot figure out what about my post you felt was bizarre or a conspiracy theory. Can you elaborate?
I am guessing that either...
...you are on Apple's side saying that it is a bizarre theory that they could have figured out the cause and would want to be dishonest and sneak the fix past customers.
Or
...you are against Apple and are saying that it couldn't possibly be a software issue, and that it has to be a hardware flaw that they aren't admitting to, and my thought that it could be resolved in software/firmware is utterly ridiculous.
Just talked to a business development exec at Bayer MaterialScience(a division of Bayer). His specialty is coatings & adhesives. He thinks their urethane coatings are tailor made to coat the antenna and solve the problem. He said he will try to get his boss to contact Jobs, if they are at all receptive. Apple must surely be aware of this option, because urethanes are tough enough to handle the wear, whereas other coatings may not be.
Just to re-write your list based on the technical explanations I've read:
1. Signal attenuation caused by something (your hand) blocking the signal.
2. Antenna de-tuning caused by direct physical contact with the antenna and/or bridging the gap between the two antennas.
3. The proximity sensor issue.
#3 I think is irrelevant to this discussion. My understand is that is simply a display issue with the the sensor not properly lighting/dimming the display when the phone is held close to your face.
#1 is the issue Apple says common to all cell phones. They are right about that. All cell phones, all radios, will suffer in performance when something blocks (attenuates) the signal from getting to the antenna. You don't need direct contact for signal attenuation. Just something between the receiver and the transmitter.
#2 is the issue Apple is completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance. Anyone who has ever used rabbit ears on a TV knows this. Standing near the TV can have a mild effect on the reception. Actually touching the rabbit ears has a huge effect on the reception.
Just to re-write your last point:
#2 is the issue Apple is apparently completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance.
I suspect that Apple is doing quite a bit of investigating and testing of this issue since it is receiving so much bad press:
The fact that they haven't said anything about an "issue" with the antenna design, doesn't mean that they are ignoring or denying the "issue".
They could say "No Comment!"... and you know where that would lead.
Because of the supercharged legal, regulatory and political atmosphere; Apple needs to be very careful in how they handle this.
Saying nothing, until they have the facts, is one approach. Saying "we're looking into it" is another.
You may not prefer what they wrote, but which specific claims of fact can you demonstrate are untrue?
Actually, the third one is from the Examiner, which links to the uncontested exchange in which Jobs said "Just avoid holding it in that way" from more than a week earlier, and does not link to the BGR story.
I would rather you prove to me what is true. There have been no "controlled" experiments. Only videos showing how to go from 5 bars to no service which Apple has admitted was probably a false reading of a weak signal. When you get into the noise level of a radio signal, it takes very little blockage to lose reception. Let's see what the users are reporting and what Apple is admitting after a month or two has passed.
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too. You have to stop believing everything you want to believe.
I'm going to avoid any comments one way or the other and just stick to the facts of my situation so here goes:
Bought an iPhone 4 on launch day. Stood in line for four hours to get it at the Apple store in Roseville, CA. Upgraded from a iPhone 3GS in the process...The 3GS has been passed to my girlfriend and replaced her old phone. I've had numerous dropped calls with my iPhone 4 since purchasing it. The phone has no case on it, just a screen protector as does the 3GS.
So today, I have both phones in front of me at the moment as I'm installing apps on the 3GS for my girlfriend. The iPhone 4 is showing 3 bars and the 3GS shows 4.
If I pick up the 3GS and hold it normally in my left hand and call my buddy (he is curious since he as a iPhone 4 on order) across town, everything works fine. Tried two calls on the 3GS so far with no issues.
Tried the same thing with the iPhone 4:
Call #1 was fine and then started to break up so I moved my hand to hold the phone differently and it cleared up.
Second call...dropped the call after about a minute.
Tried a third call and this time, held the phone normally and sure enough, after about a minute, the call started to break up. Moved my hand and it cleared up. Moved my hand back to the way I hold it normally and it started to break up. I kept it here and about twenty seconds later, dropped the call.
My simple question is this...What would cause the difference between the two phones as far as reception goes?
That's it...I don't want to hear, buy a case since I'm testing both "caseless" at the moment and "return it to the store if you don't like it"...I like the iPhone 4 and want to keep it. On the other hand, "the iPhone 4 is crap" doesn't fly with me either...So, what could cause the issues I'm seeing with the iPhone4?
I believe Apple made an educated bet that the antenna design and present bar formula would actually serve users best--at least the vast majority of users. A bar formula was chosen that down-weights signal strength in favor of its consistency. When the antenna gap is untouched, signal strength alone isn't as much of an issue for the iPhone 4 as for other cell phones.
The antenna design is only an issue for people who don't use a case and who are in a low signal strength area and who hold the iPhone in their left hand with a mild constraint on precisely how the device is held. Surely Apple gathered statistics on these determinants to predict how much of a problem the overall system design would be.
The fact that prototypes were field tested disguised in cases didn't inform the statistics at all about how the phone is held, the usefulness of the bar formula in areas of low signal strength, or the consternation created when calls drop and data throughput plummets.
Changing the bar formula will alter user expectations, but it's a half-baked way of addressing a flawed out-of-box design. Apple should be giving away bumpers.
Please! Stop! Telling a lie a thousand times doesn't make it the truth. Most of these stories come from sites that regularly attack Apple. And the third link continues to propagate those fake Steve Jobs emails.
Really? ZDnet, WSJ? Unreputable sources? Not sure about computerworld but still, stop the appolies, my opinion of course, but i've never read anything from these two that has been 100% fabricated.
Of course you do. That would let you continue to learn nothing and just sit there dismissing the firsthand experiences of hundreds or possibly thousands of people around the world without having to lift a finger.
If you have a problem with anything those journalists wrote, each of them has provided contact info. I will not write your letters for you.
Quote:
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too.
I take the case off, test as described and my network bars fall away - however its not just the bars that fall away its the signal quality - my data throughput falls from 2.4Mb to 8k
That is not just a bar problem - something else is going on.
if I use the bumper the problem is made less severe - it does not go away completely. testing with the bumper case on the best throughput I recorded was 1.3Mb. That might be down to just network variation but I was sat in the same chair through all the testing and the movement in bars with the bumper on is visible to my eye as my hand is placed on and off the case.
The announcement is worrying because it suggests that Apple is going to use the signal bars to hide the problem rather than stick to their initial view - which is the same as mine. i.e. Yes, holding the phone in the way that crosses the connection will cause poor radio performance. Using a case helps. Holding the phone in another way does fix the problem. In fact in most other positions the signal reception is better than my previous 3GS Call quality is much better. I'd say that in the most part the phone works better as a phone and internet device. If I hold it in the way that doesn't work then it doesn't work as good. I will just hold it another way. Which really isn't that hard.
I am not generally an apple fanboy but I can put things into proportion - even with the problem the IP4 is a better phone than the 3GS and an iOS4 phone gives a user interface that I find preferable to other phone OSs . I'm happy with my iphone4 and I'd recommend them to others.
I wish other people could think beyond the "oh, Apple is so great" and look at each product objectively and say "oh, iPhone 2G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3GS is so great" and "BTW, something is amiss with iPhone 4". Just because the last few products were good, how can people simply ignore the complaints of thousands of other users who have genuine problems?
Emphasis mine!
"thousands"?
Can you reference thousands of individual failures-- or hundreds of failures repeated hundreds of times?
Out of, say, 3 million iP4s shipped:
-- 30,000 would be a failure rate of 1%
-- 3,000 would be a failure rate of .1%
-- 300 would be a failure rate of .01%
I would bet that the iP4 failures are somewhere between 300 and 3,000-- or a rate approaching .1%.
I don't know what the expected failure rate for this class of device is!
I wonder why the software bar-count calculation was wrong in the first place. Could it be that Apple intentionally exaggerated the signal strength (or maybe signal/noise ratio) and showed more bars in order to make AT&T look better? I wouldn't be surprised if Apple asked AT&T "What can we do to help your image? How about showing more bars?"
Having said that, AT&T has noticeably improved reception in my area. I've always been on the fringe of AT&T's coverage, but last year I saw an increase in both bar count and call reliability. My old iPhone 3G suddenly showed 5 bars in 3G and EDGE modes, and now my iPhone 4 does as well. (Except when I use the "death grip.")
That "Mark the Spot" app might have had something to do with the improvement. Just a few weeks after I marked my spot, reception and bar count got drastically better...
Just more opinions with no facts. It's so easy to play "what if" games and spout conspiracy theories without any technical or design knowledge. These people should stop trying to pretend their blogs represent valid news or reputable journalism.
A good company admits to its mistakes. Well done, Apple!
You guys are funny.. any other company admits this, they would be buried. Secondly, you all accept this explanation?.. no one is suspicious of this explanation?. If you can't trust the algorithm they used in Iphone 4, how do you know it was true in iphone 3?. Wow, imagine HTC had done this, they would have been creamed!!!.. well done apple my ass!!
Can you reference thousands of individual failures-- or hundreds of failures repeated hundreds of times?
Out of, say, 3 million iP4s shipped:
-- 30,000 would be a failure rate of 1%
-- 3,000 would be a failure rate of .1%
-- 300 would be a failure rate of .01%
I would bet that the iP4 failures are somewhere between 300 and 3,000-- or a rate approaching .1%.
I don't know what the expected failure rate for this class of device is!
Anybody? Is 1% the norm? 10%?
.
I think you are taking what he wrote too literally. Perhaps he meant the thousands that have complained in forums around the world.
Also, 'you would bet' on a rate approaching 0.1% based on what? (Especially considering you have no clue as indicated by the last sentence of your post).
i've never had an issue, the phone is the best i've every had. Design is amazing. Software is the best in the mobile business.
If you don't like it, take it back. Go get that froyo phone you've been secretly wanting all along. Well, you'll probably have to wait until 2012 since froyo is a vapor release.
Comments
.
Hmmm...
I wonder what effect this will have on the sue-ers [sic]?
Glad to see you recognize you were misspelling 'sewers.'
Please! Stop! Telling a lie a thousand times doesn't make it the truth.
You may not prefer what they wrote, but which specific claims of fact can you demonstrate are untrue?
Most of these stories come from sites that regularly attack Apple. And the third link continues to propagate those fake Steve Jobs emails.
Actually, the third one is from the Examiner, which links to the uncontested exchange in which Jobs said "Just avoid holding it in that way" from more than a week earlier, and does not link to the BGR story.
But I digress. I don't have an iP4 so I'm not supposed to comment. Just forget what I said.
You certainly are free to comment!
What many members come to AI for is a "reasonable discussion" of Apple products and issues (and maybe have a little fun).
What many object to is when someone posts, or repeats controversial assertions with nothing to to support those assertions.
Fifty thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong... sadly, yes they can!
And one problem (real or imagined) repeated fifty-thousand times is misleading.
If you have concerns, as many do, without experiencing them first-hand, then most would welcome a reasoned contribution to the discussion.
.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16458/apple_iphone_4
Apple's Crazy Open Letter Doesn't Even Address The Real Issue
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sue-2010-7.DTL
Apple's embarrassing error
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...ing_error.html
Another bizarre turn with Apple's iPhone 4
Commentary: Ridiculous fix of a possible real antenna issue
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...ial-2010-07-02
Poking holes in Apple's iPhone 4 antenna explanation
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20009564-266.html
Don't shoot the messenger.
Consider this....
What if Apple already knows that there is a rogue subroutine in the software which will teleport you to Mars if you type a certain sequence of numbers? After all, if we're going to imagine all sorts of bizarre scenarios and conspiracy theories, we might as well make them interesting.
In case you don't have any intention of replying again, I would ask you to reconsider. Your initial reply definitely has my attention as I cannot figure out what about my post you felt was bizarre or a conspiracy theory. Can you elaborate?
I am guessing that either...
...you are on Apple's side saying that it is a bizarre theory that they could have figured out the cause and would want to be dishonest and sneak the fix past customers.
Or
...you are against Apple and are saying that it couldn't possibly be a software issue, and that it has to be a hardware flaw that they aren't admitting to, and my thought that it could be resolved in software/firmware is utterly ridiculous.
Or is there a third explanation?
I'm just curious where you stand.
Just to re-write your list based on the technical explanations I've read:
1. Signal attenuation caused by something (your hand) blocking the signal.
2. Antenna de-tuning caused by direct physical contact with the antenna and/or bridging the gap between the two antennas.
3. The proximity sensor issue.
#3 I think is irrelevant to this discussion. My understand is that is simply a display issue with the the sensor not properly lighting/dimming the display when the phone is held close to your face.
#1 is the issue Apple says common to all cell phones. They are right about that. All cell phones, all radios, will suffer in performance when something blocks (attenuates) the signal from getting to the antenna. You don't need direct contact for signal attenuation. Just something between the receiver and the transmitter.
#2 is the issue Apple is completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance. Anyone who has ever used rabbit ears on a TV knows this. Standing near the TV can have a mild effect on the reception. Actually touching the rabbit ears has a huge effect on the reception.
Just to re-write your last point:
#2 is the issue Apple is apparently completely ignoring/denying. Their design exposes the antenna to direct contact, which affects antenna performance.
I suspect that Apple is doing quite a bit of investigating and testing of this issue since it is receiving so much bad press:
The fact that they haven't said anything about an "issue" with the antenna design, doesn't mean that they are ignoring or denying the "issue".
They could say "No Comment!"... and you know where that would lead.
Because of the supercharged legal, regulatory and political atmosphere; Apple needs to be very careful in how they handle this.
Saying nothing, until they have the facts, is one approach. Saying "we're looking into it" is another.
mås o menos!
It is what Apple does, is what counts!
8 days, guys... give 'em a chance to perform!
.
You may not prefer what they wrote, but which specific claims of fact can you demonstrate are untrue?
Actually, the third one is from the Examiner, which links to the uncontested exchange in which Jobs said "Just avoid holding it in that way" from more than a week earlier, and does not link to the BGR story.
I would rather you prove to me what is true. There have been no "controlled" experiments. Only videos showing how to go from 5 bars to no service which Apple has admitted was probably a false reading of a weak signal. When you get into the noise level of a radio signal, it takes very little blockage to lose reception. Let's see what the users are reporting and what Apple is admitting after a month or two has passed.
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too. You have to stop believing everything you want to believe.
Bought an iPhone 4 on launch day. Stood in line for four hours to get it at the Apple store in Roseville, CA. Upgraded from a iPhone 3GS in the process...The 3GS has been passed to my girlfriend and replaced her old phone. I've had numerous dropped calls with my iPhone 4 since purchasing it. The phone has no case on it, just a screen protector as does the 3GS.
So today, I have both phones in front of me at the moment as I'm installing apps on the 3GS for my girlfriend. The iPhone 4 is showing 3 bars and the 3GS shows 4.
If I pick up the 3GS and hold it normally in my left hand and call my buddy (he is curious since he as a iPhone 4 on order) across town, everything works fine. Tried two calls on the 3GS so far with no issues.
Tried the same thing with the iPhone 4:
- Call #1 was fine and then started to break up so I moved my hand to hold the phone differently and it cleared up.
- Second call...dropped the call after about a minute.
- Tried a third call and this time, held the phone normally and sure enough, after about a minute, the call started to break up. Moved my hand and it cleared up. Moved my hand back to the way I hold it normally and it started to break up. I kept it here and about twenty seconds later, dropped the call.
My simple question is this...What would cause the difference between the two phones as far as reception goes?That's it...I don't want to hear, buy a case since I'm testing both "caseless" at the moment and "return it to the store if you don't like it"...I like the iPhone 4 and want to keep it. On the other hand, "the iPhone 4 is crap" doesn't fly with me either...So, what could cause the issues I'm seeing with the iPhone4?
The antenna design is only an issue for people who don't use a case and who are in a low signal strength area and who hold the iPhone in their left hand with a mild constraint on precisely how the device is held. Surely Apple gathered statistics on these determinants to predict how much of a problem the overall system design would be.
The fact that prototypes were field tested disguised in cases didn't inform the statistics at all about how the phone is held, the usefulness of the bar formula in areas of low signal strength, or the consternation created when calls drop and data throughput plummets.
Changing the bar formula will alter user expectations, but it's a half-baked way of addressing a flawed out-of-box design. Apple should be giving away bumpers.
Please! Stop! Telling a lie a thousand times doesn't make it the truth. Most of these stories come from sites that regularly attack Apple. And the third link continues to propagate those fake Steve Jobs emails.
Really? ZDnet, WSJ? Unreputable sources? Not sure about computerworld but still, stop the appolies, my opinion of course, but i've never read anything from these two that has been 100% fabricated.
I would rather you prove to me what is true.
Of course you do. That would let you continue to learn nothing and just sit there dismissing the firsthand experiences of hundreds or possibly thousands of people around the world without having to lift a finger.
If you have a problem with anything those journalists wrote, each of them has provided contact info. I will not write your letters for you.
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too.
What is the URL to Apple's statement on that one?
I have an iphone4 with bumper case.
I take the case off, test as described and my network bars fall away - however its not just the bars that fall away its the signal quality - my data throughput falls from 2.4Mb to 8k
That is not just a bar problem - something else is going on.
if I use the bumper the problem is made less severe - it does not go away completely. testing with the bumper case on the best throughput I recorded was 1.3Mb. That might be down to just network variation but I was sat in the same chair through all the testing and the movement in bars with the bumper on is visible to my eye as my hand is placed on and off the case.
The announcement is worrying because it suggests that Apple is going to use the signal bars to hide the problem rather than stick to their initial view - which is the same as mine. i.e. Yes, holding the phone in the way that crosses the connection will cause poor radio performance. Using a case helps. Holding the phone in another way does fix the problem. In fact in most other positions the signal reception is better than my previous 3GS Call quality is much better. I'd say that in the most part the phone works better as a phone and internet device. If I hold it in the way that doesn't work then it doesn't work as good. I will just hold it another way. Which really isn't that hard.
I am not generally an apple fanboy but I can put things into proportion - even with the problem the IP4 is a better phone than the 3GS and an iOS4 phone gives a user interface that I find preferable to other phone OSs . I'm happy with my iphone4 and I'd recommend them to others.
A wonderfully sensible statement!
I wish other people could think beyond the "oh, Apple is so great" and look at each product objectively and say "oh, iPhone 2G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3G is so great", "oh, iPhone 3GS is so great" and "BTW, something is amiss with iPhone 4". Just because the last few products were good, how can people simply ignore the complaints of thousands of other users who have genuine problems?
Emphasis mine!
"thousands"?
Can you reference thousands of individual failures-- or hundreds of failures repeated hundreds of times?
Out of, say, 3 million iP4s shipped:
-- 30,000 would be a failure rate of 1%
-- 3,000 would be a failure rate of .1%
-- 300 would be a failure rate of .01%
I would bet that the iP4 failures are somewhere between 300 and 3,000-- or a rate approaching .1%.
I don't know what the expected failure rate for this class of device is!
Anybody? Is 1% the norm? 10%?
.
Having said that, AT&T has noticeably improved reception in my area. I've always been on the fringe of AT&T's coverage, but last year I saw an increase in both bar count and call reliability. My old iPhone 3G suddenly showed 5 bars in 3G and EDGE modes, and now my iPhone 4 does as well. (Except when I use the "death grip.")
That "Mark the Spot" app might have had something to do with the improvement. Just a few weeks after I marked my spot, reception and bar count got drastically better...
And the "Don't hold it that way" email was a fake too. You have to stop believing everything you want to believe.
I would like to see a link to that. Thanks.
Apple delivers inadequate response to iPhone 4 reception problems
http://blogs.computerworld.com/16458/apple_iphone_4
Apple's Crazy Open Letter Doesn't Even Address The Real Issue
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sue-2010-7.DTL
Apple's embarrassing error
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...ing_error.html
Another bizarre turn with Apple's iPhone 4
Commentary: Ridiculous fix of a possible real antenna issue
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...ial-2010-07-02
Poking holes in Apple's iPhone 4 antenna explanation
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20009564-266.html
Don't shoot the messenger.
Just more opinions with no facts. It's so easy to play "what if" games and spout conspiracy theories without any technical or design knowledge. These people should stop trying to pretend their blogs represent valid news or reputable journalism.
A good company admits to its mistakes. Well done, Apple!
You guys are funny.. any other company admits this, they would be buried. Secondly, you all accept this explanation?.. no one is suspicious of this explanation?. If you can't trust the algorithm they used in Iphone 4, how do you know it was true in iphone 3?. Wow, imagine HTC had done this, they would have been creamed!!!.. well done apple my ass!!
Emphasis mine!
"thousands"?
Can you reference thousands of individual failures-- or hundreds of failures repeated hundreds of times?
Out of, say, 3 million iP4s shipped:
-- 30,000 would be a failure rate of 1%
-- 3,000 would be a failure rate of .1%
-- 300 would be a failure rate of .01%
I would bet that the iP4 failures are somewhere between 300 and 3,000-- or a rate approaching .1%.
I don't know what the expected failure rate for this class of device is!
Anybody? Is 1% the norm? 10%?
.
I think you are taking what he wrote too literally. Perhaps he meant the thousands that have complained in forums around the world.
Also, 'you would bet' on a rate approaching 0.1% based on what? (Especially considering you have no clue as indicated by the last sentence of your post).
You are normally a credible guy........
i've never had an issue, the phone is the best i've every had. Design is amazing. Software is the best in the mobile business.
If you don't like it, take it back. Go get that froyo phone you've been secretly wanting all along. Well, you'll probably have to wait until 2012 since froyo is a vapor release.
+1...