Have the released the "formula" for just iPhone 4 or are they going to release it for the 3GS as well so they can be compared?
Ahhh... from the article:
Quote:
We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.
I've experienced that from my clients, too. With the iPhone 4, do we have more dropped calls, or are the dropped calls just more noticeable because the antenna design is so different? I haven't seen a controlled test but someone must be working on that.
In any case, I hope the software revision at least makes it more clear what's happening. I found a spot in my house last night where bridging the two metal bands with the lightest touch of one finger made the bars drop from 5 to 1. That's the first time I had seen any of this on my phone. But I could still make, sustain and receive calls with no noticeable loss of quality. So at least getting the signal display to match what's really happening better (a minimal reduction, in my case) would be a step in the right direction for those of you with actual connection problems.
If I were dropping calls, though, I'd just return the thing. My old phone wasn't that bad. Wait until the next revision and then try again.
By the way, I found the part in Apple's letter about making the shorter bars a little taller to be amusingly Orwellian.
Whether or not you're able to substantiate your discomfort with that reporting by disputing any specific claims of fact in those articles, one fact remains unquestionable: Apple's mishandling of this issue has resulted in a significant hit to their reputation.
Yet the iPhone 4 continues to fly off the shelves.
Despite what the trolls, pundints and astroturfers are flinging, people are voting with their dollars and the vote is in: The iPhone 4 is a success.
A couple of days ago, my class/lab did a count on one forum in which in the first 240 blogs, 30 of them were posted by two of the most vocal anti-Apple/Mac members and who didn't own the iPhone 4. Much of the negativism came from the same non-user.
What was equally interesting was the fact that with one exception, in all the reported 'expert reviews' there wasn't a mention or it was not a concern re 'dropped calls' while observing a drop in bars. Only later in the days did there appear to be issues re dropped calls. But again, the most vocal appeared to be coming primarily from those who did not have an iPhone 4 and even more surprising, any other iPhone.
All good reading and conjecture, but let's talk sales figures. That's your real indicator.
For every one person writing something good, someone could write something as equally negative. For me the lone indicator is the sales figure. Oh, and the iPhone 4 in my hand, humming right along.
If you don't believe me ask Microsoft about the runaway success of the Kin. Now that was a POS. Did anyone write anything negative about it, (other than Dilger who rightly called it)? Did anybody write anything positive about it? No, it failed all by itself.
I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.
Yet the iPhone 4 continues to fly off the shelves.
Despite what the trolls, pundints and astroturfers are flinging, people are voting with their dollars and the vote is in: The iPhone 4 is a success.
Microsoft didn't earn the banner of being industry a$$hole of the '90s overnight. Apple taking that crown will take time too. This is how such a moniker begins to get traction.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
If it was truly as big a problem as some keep arguing, there would be villagers with torches and pitchforks massing at Apple Stores around the world. Instead, what we have are masses demanding more iPhone 4's. All the links to articles and passionate protestations in the world cannot gainsay success. It is what it is.
Microsoft didn't earn the banner of being industry a$$hole of the '90s overnight. Apple taking that crown will take time too. This is how such a moniker begins to get traction.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
"Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice..."
If your figure is true, I am guessing that it applies only to phones delivered. What about all those on order? Has that figure been revealed. I am one of them. True, I am a "landfiller," but I see nothing to convince me that sales are going to drop significantly once that group has been satisfied. Neither do the analysts for whatever that's worth.
I never thought of MS as being any more of an a-hole than any other big corporation. Sluggish maybe, perhaps non-creative. But not gratuitously mean. Perhaps you have personal experience with them that says otherwise.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
Nice way to generalize all us upgraders as "landfillers". FYI, I sold my iPhone 3G and it's now being used as someone's smartphone on the AT&T network. Also, last I heard, a little more than a quarter of all iPhone sales were new customers. Not exactly what I'd call "relatively few".
So when will there be an update for the poor original iPhone reception issues?
Also, when will iPhone OS 3.x get the Safari update? Apple updates Safari two OS releases back for Mac OS X, and they should for original iPhone too, especially security updates!!!
Now Consumer Reports says that these signal problems are common to all phones, and is no reason not to buy an iPhone 4. Come on naysayers. The tide is turning, the sources that really mean something (at least to many consumers) are weighing in on Apple's side. For years CR wouldn't give Apple the time of day--preferring Windows as a "better value." Hardly inveterate fanboys. But I'm sure you'll come up with a reason why their opinion, too, should be disregarded. Time to move on to other more important issues.
I just recorded a video accessing 3G data on my iPhone 4 before and after holding it in my left hand. Instead of just looking at the reception indicator, I used speed test apps to see if the 3G signal is affected. It completely lost all 3G reception.
That was a very good video-- reasoned, comprehensive, and objective.
I never realized it before, but what you demonstrated was, when the antenna was bridged:
a) Data transfer stopped-- the data connection stopped
b) Voice transfer continued-- you were able to initiate and conduct a call
... regardless of the real signal strength
... regardless of how other phones performed
I'm no Cell radio expert, so help me out here:
1) Isn't one of the iPhone/AT&T advantages over Verizon that it can do Voice and Data concurrently?
2) From that, I infer that they are using separate bands/radios rather than multiplexing a single band/radio
3) Didn't the iP4 add a new band/radio?
4) Aren't there some other radio-related improvements in the iP4 that significantly improve Data upload and download speeds.
5) Isn't it probable that the critical "Phone" feature is implemented differently than convenience "Data" features
Again, I have no knowledge, but I suspect that the critical "Phone" feature is implemented more precisely as to quality of connection and the "minimum" connection acceptable.
Talking of the top of my head here, But, say, there were 5 acceptable levels of service, one being the lowest, and 5 the highest.
Wouldn't you do everything you could in software to make the critical "Phone" feature work at the lowest acceptable level?
Would it be OK to be less-demanding for the convenience "Data" feature? Especially if allowing "Data" at the lower level would preclude or interfere with the critical "Phone" usage?
Any experts out there to support this theory or shoot it down?
-- you have an instance of a defective phone that a replacement would resolve
-- there is a hardware design defect
-- there is a software defect* that can be resolved by an update
* this one can be a toughie, because it could be in the way the drivers recognize signal strength, decide when to hand off to a stronger (slower?) signal, and actually accomplishing the switchover. When you are working at this level, it is kind of a never-land... not quite hardware, not quite software.
If I were to guess, I say, in this order:
-- defective iPhone
-- software defect (or a hardware issue that can be fixed by software)**
-- design defect (or as some say: Hecka-Fail)
** Back in the early days you usually were correct guessing a hardware bug. With the state-of-the-art electronics many former hardware features are partially implemented in software-- one advantage of this is to be able to resolve many "hardware problems" by changing the "software". For example, they could, likely, change the CPU speed (clocking) with a software patch. This could be used to reduce overheating, conserve battery. The Cell radio chips, likely, can be tweaked by software, too.
In the iP4 you have much more compute power than you have in a 10 year old iMac... plus GPU, GPS, radio chips, manometers, etc..
There is a lot of complexity here, and many places to look for problems and solutions-- it takes time to localize the problem, identify resolution, and implement a "fix"
If Apple has done their job, there will very little "hardware" in the iP4 that can't be tweaked to resolve problems.
.
Yes, the 3GS was updated to iOS4 before I purchased the iPhone 4 to replace it. The one thing I've noticed in playing around with both phones so far is that it seems the iPhone 4 doesn't fall back to Edge from 3G as well as the 3GS does. Where I live, it's a new development sort of on the edge of the 3G coverage area. My old 3GS would always swap between 3G and EDGE all the time but I wouldn't drop calls. The iPhone 4 will drop down to zero bars but still show 3G and then the calls will be dropped. I'm going to take it to the Apple store tomorrow just in case to see what they say.
So the signal display has been showing a better signal than the iPhone has actually been getting and you're fixing that so the display more accurately reflects the actual signal. That's great. And thanks for fronting up via your PR people.
So what are you doing to fix the problems that people with iP4s are having with dropped calls, poor call quality and poor data speeds when they hold the iP4 in the way most of the owners have always held their cellphones?
Interesting thread on the apple discussion board. 22 pages of people with poor 3G data performance on the iPHone 4 when compared to other phones. I really think the two may be related and there is an underlying software issue. With so many people with issues, I am hoping there will be a software fix out for that. I could care less about signal strength if I get data in!
Yes, the 3GS was updated to iOS4 before I purchased the iPhone 4 to replace it. The one thing I've noticed in playing around with both phones so far is that it seems the iPhone 4 doesn't fall back to Edge from 3G as well as the 3GS does. Where I live, it's a new development sort of on the edge of the 3G coverage area. My old 3GS would always swap between 3G and EDGE all the time but I wouldn't drop calls. The iPhone 4 will drop down to zero bars but still show 3G and then the calls will be dropped. I'm going to take it to the Apple store tomorrow just in case to see what they say.
Ahh... that's an interesting observation! Next time I am out and about, I'll see what happens here.
Without jumping the gun, I think we know (based on Apple's statement):
1) the algorithm for measuring the [various] cell radio signals is incorrect
2) as a result, the reported signal strength/quality numbers are incorrect
3) these numbers are displayed incorrectly, graphically by displaying more bars than it should
Is it a stretch to assume that the software routine that determines when to switch from 3G to Edge is based on the same erroneous signal strength/quality numbers?
Or, are the numbers OK and the error is limited to the graphics display?
Is it a stretch to assume that the software routine that determines when to switch from 3G to Edge is based on the same erroneous signal strength/quality numbers?
Or, are the numbers OK and the error is limited to the graphics display?
Hmmm....
,
That is a condescending post. His problem wasn't stated rudely or anything else. There are legitimate signal issues out there. I can put a 3Gs next to a 4 on a table and get faster downloads nearly all day long. While not holding a phone in hand. Look at the apple forum, people are having issues while not holding them in hand and they have friends nearby to directly compare. 22 pages and growing. I am lucky because we have over 20 iphones in the office with 4 4s.
I guess since your phone doesn't have an issue, his phone doesn't have one. Sound reasoning...
Comments
Have the released the "formula" for just iPhone 4 or are they going to release it for the 3GS as well so they can be compared?
Ahhh... from the article:
We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.
....tick....tick.....tick....tick....
.
I've experienced that from my clients, too.
In any case, I hope the software revision at least makes it more clear what's happening. I found a spot in my house last night where bridging the two metal bands with the lightest touch of one finger made the bars drop from 5 to 1. That's the first time I had seen any of this on my phone. But I could still make, sustain and receive calls with no noticeable loss of quality. So at least getting the signal display to match what's really happening better (a minimal reduction, in my case) would be a step in the right direction for those of you with actual connection problems.
If I were dropping calls, though, I'd just return the thing. My old phone wasn't that bad. Wait until the next revision and then try again.
By the way, I found the part in Apple's letter about making the shorter bars a little taller to be amusingly Orwellian.
Nah! Bauhaus: less is more!
.
We're only in the first inning... it's a 9-inning game.
Handled right (especially if there is a real problem), Apple could enhance their reputation!
There may be a real opportunity here...
Let's hope. So far it's not off to a good start - this afternoon's batch:
Apple's iPhone 4 denial: insulting or ignorant?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...denial_letter/
Apple iPhone 4 Reception Bars: A Distorted Reality
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366031,00.asp
FACT CHECK: Apple Has Known About iPhone Signal Display Problems Since Late 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...one-2010-7.DTL
Apple to iPhone 4 users: It's the bars, stupid
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...4-antenna.html
Let?s Try to Make Sense of the ?Death Grip?
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...lem/?src=busln
Whether or not you're able to substantiate your discomfort with that reporting by disputing any specific claims of fact in those articles, one fact remains unquestionable: Apple's mishandling of this issue has resulted in a significant hit to their reputation.
Yet the iPhone 4 continues to fly off the shelves.
Despite what the trolls, pundints and astroturfers are flinging, people are voting with their dollars and the vote is in: The iPhone 4 is a success.
Certainly not here.
A couple of days ago, my class/lab did a count on one forum in which in the first 240 blogs, 30 of them were posted by two of the most vocal anti-Apple/Mac members and who didn't own the iPhone 4. Much of the negativism came from the same non-user.
What was equally interesting was the fact that with one exception, in all the reported 'expert reviews' there wasn't a mention or it was not a concern re 'dropped calls' while observing a drop in bars. Only later in the days did there appear to be issues re dropped calls. But again, the most vocal appeared to be coming primarily from those who did not have an iPhone 4 and even more surprising, any other iPhone.
Ha!
CaptainJ, you've been Chopped!
.
Let's hope. So far it's not off to a good start - this afternoon's batch:
Apple's iPhone 4 denial: insulting or ignorant?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...denial_letter/
Apple iPhone 4 Reception Bars: A Distorted Reality
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366031,00.asp
FACT CHECK: Apple Has Known About iPhone Signal Display Problems Since Late 2008
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...one-2010-7.DTL
Apple to iPhone 4 users: It's the bars, stupid
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...4-antenna.html
Let’s Try to Make Sense of the “Death Grip”
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...lem/?src=busln
All good reading and conjecture, but let's talk sales figures. That's your real indicator.
For every one person writing something good, someone could write something as equally negative. For me the lone indicator is the sales figure. Oh, and the iPhone 4 in my hand, humming right along.
If you don't believe me ask Microsoft about the runaway success of the Kin. Now that was a POS. Did anyone write anything negative about it, (other than Dilger who rightly called it)? Did anybody write anything positive about it? No, it failed all by itself.
iPhone 4 is a success. Get over it.
I have found a website and forum for people interested in Appley things on which the members treat each other with respect, do not name-call, they collaborate on getting facts straight, and bring useful expertise and insights to the matters under discussion. Civility and intelligence are the rule of the day. I would love to tell you where it is, but that would only lead the hordes of trolls which bedevil other sites to it. Membership is restricted and rules are rigorously enforced. It's heaven. I may never post anywhere else again.
LOL... Say hello to Steve for me!
.
Yet the iPhone 4 continues to fly off the shelves.
Despite what the trolls, pundints and astroturfers are flinging, people are voting with their dollars and the vote is in: The iPhone 4 is a success.
Microsoft didn't earn the banner of being industry a$$hole of the '90s overnight. Apple taking that crown will take time too. This is how such a moniker begins to get traction.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
"Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice..."
iPhone 4 is a success. Get over it.
If it was truly as big a problem as some keep arguing, there would be villagers with torches and pitchforks massing at Apple Stores around the world. Instead, what we have are masses demanding more iPhone 4's. All the links to articles and passionate protestations in the world cannot gainsay success. It is what it is.
Microsoft didn't earn the banner of being industry a$$hole of the '90s overnight. Apple taking that crown will take time too. This is how such a moniker begins to get traction.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
"Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice..."
If your figure is true, I am guessing that it applies only to phones delivered. What about all those on order? Has that figure been revealed. I am one of them. True, I am a "landfiller," but I see nothing to convince me that sales are going to drop significantly once that group has been satisfied. Neither do the analysts for whatever that's worth.
I never thought of MS as being any more of an a-hole than any other big corporation. Sluggish maybe, perhaps non-creative. But not gratuitously mean. Perhaps you have personal experience with them that says otherwise.
Remember, nearly 3/4 of iPhone sales are to those landfillers, existing customers throwing out their ols one to get the new one. Relatively few first-time buyers.
Nice way to generalize all us upgraders as "landfillers". FYI, I sold my iPhone 3G and it's now being used as someone's smartphone on the AT&T network. Also, last I heard, a little more than a quarter of all iPhone sales were new customers. Not exactly what I'd call "relatively few".
Also, when will iPhone OS 3.x get the Safari update? Apple updates Safari two OS releases back for Mac OS X, and they should for original iPhone too, especially security updates!!!
I just recorded a video accessing 3G data on my iPhone 4 before and after holding it in my left hand. Instead of just looking at the reception indicator, I used speed test apps to see if the 3G signal is affected. It completely lost all 3G reception.
YouTube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqe0tBuBR20
That was a very good video-- reasoned, comprehensive, and objective.
I never realized it before, but what you demonstrated was, when the antenna was bridged:
a) Data transfer stopped-- the data connection stopped
b) Voice transfer continued-- you were able to initiate and conduct a call
... regardless of the real signal strength
... regardless of how other phones performed
I'm no Cell radio expert, so help me out here:
1) Isn't one of the iPhone/AT&T advantages over Verizon that it can do Voice and Data concurrently?
2) From that, I infer that they are using separate bands/radios rather than multiplexing a single band/radio
3) Didn't the iP4 add a new band/radio?
4) Aren't there some other radio-related improvements in the iP4 that significantly improve Data upload and download speeds.
5) Isn't it probable that the critical "Phone" feature is implemented differently than convenience "Data" features
Again, I have no knowledge, but I suspect that the critical "Phone" feature is implemented more precisely as to quality of connection and the "minimum" connection acceptable.
Talking of the top of my head here, But, say, there were 5 acceptable levels of service, one being the lowest, and 5 the highest.
Wouldn't you do everything you could in software to make the critical "Phone" feature work at the lowest acceptable level?
Would it be OK to be less-demanding for the convenience "Data" feature? Especially if allowing "Data" at the lower level would preclude or interfere with the critical "Phone" usage?
Any experts out there to support this theory or shoot it down?
Help!
.
First, a question: Is the 3GS running iOS 4, too?
Couple of possibilities:
-- you have an instance of a defective phone that a replacement would resolve
-- there is a hardware design defect
-- there is a software defect* that can be resolved by an update
* this one can be a toughie, because it could be in the way the drivers recognize signal strength, decide when to hand off to a stronger (slower?) signal, and actually accomplishing the switchover. When you are working at this level, it is kind of a never-land... not quite hardware, not quite software.
If I were to guess, I say, in this order:
-- defective iPhone
-- software defect (or a hardware issue that can be fixed by software)**
-- design defect (or as some say: Hecka-Fail)
** Back in the early days you usually were correct guessing a hardware bug. With the state-of-the-art electronics many former hardware features are partially implemented in software-- one advantage of this is to be able to resolve many "hardware problems" by changing the "software". For example, they could, likely, change the CPU speed (clocking) with a software patch. This could be used to reduce overheating, conserve battery. The Cell radio chips, likely, can be tweaked by software, too.
In the iP4 you have much more compute power than you have in a 10 year old iMac... plus GPU, GPS, radio chips, manometers, etc..
There is a lot of complexity here, and many places to look for problems and solutions-- it takes time to localize the problem, identify resolution, and implement a "fix"
If Apple has done their job, there will very little "hardware" in the iP4 that can't be tweaked to resolve problems.
.
Yes, the 3GS was updated to iOS4 before I purchased the iPhone 4 to replace it. The one thing I've noticed in playing around with both phones so far is that it seems the iPhone 4 doesn't fall back to Edge from 3G as well as the 3GS does. Where I live, it's a new development sort of on the edge of the 3G coverage area. My old 3GS would always swap between 3G and EDGE all the time but I wouldn't drop calls. The iPhone 4 will drop down to zero bars but still show 3G and then the calls will be dropped. I'm going to take it to the Apple store tomorrow just in case to see what they say.
So the signal display has been showing a better signal than the iPhone has actually been getting and you're fixing that so the display more accurately reflects the actual signal. That's great. And thanks for fronting up via your PR people.
So what are you doing to fix the problems that people with iP4s are having with dropped calls, poor call quality and poor data speeds when they hold the iP4 in the way most of the owners have always held their cellphones?
Thanks in advance.
Chopper.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....rt=0&start=315
Yes, the 3GS was updated to iOS4 before I purchased the iPhone 4 to replace it. The one thing I've noticed in playing around with both phones so far is that it seems the iPhone 4 doesn't fall back to Edge from 3G as well as the 3GS does. Where I live, it's a new development sort of on the edge of the 3G coverage area. My old 3GS would always swap between 3G and EDGE all the time but I wouldn't drop calls. The iPhone 4 will drop down to zero bars but still show 3G and then the calls will be dropped. I'm going to take it to the Apple store tomorrow just in case to see what they say.
Ahh... that's an interesting observation! Next time I am out and about, I'll see what happens here.
Without jumping the gun, I think we know (based on Apple's statement):
1) the algorithm for measuring the [various] cell radio signals is incorrect
2) as a result, the reported signal strength/quality numbers are incorrect
3) these numbers are displayed incorrectly, graphically by displaying more bars than it should
Is it a stretch to assume that the software routine that determines when to switch from 3G to Edge is based on the same erroneous signal strength/quality numbers?
Or, are the numbers OK and the error is limited to the graphics display?
Hmmm....
,
...
Is it a stretch to assume that the software routine that determines when to switch from 3G to Edge is based on the same erroneous signal strength/quality numbers?
Or, are the numbers OK and the error is limited to the graphics display?
Hmmm....
,
That is a condescending post. His problem wasn't stated rudely or anything else. There are legitimate signal issues out there. I can put a 3Gs next to a 4 on a table and get faster downloads nearly all day long. While not holding a phone in hand. Look at the apple forum, people are having issues while not holding them in hand and they have friends nearby to directly compare. 22 pages and growing. I am lucky because we have over 20 iphones in the office with 4 4s.
I guess since your phone doesn't have an issue, his phone doesn't have one. Sound reasoning...
Yikes.
Or, convenient timing?