Notice that all the phones the article talks about were delivered before or on release day.
I received my iPhone from Best Buy on Wednesday of this week. No issue. I was out in the country yesterday where I had 2-3 bars of service. I tried to kill it with the touch of death...still no issue.
I don't believe the problem is a design issue at all, but most likely a manufacturing one. When I think about it, I can't imagine the engineers not wondering what would happen if someone crossed the streams But, I can imagine Foxconn looking at the manufacturing plans that might have called for dipping the antenna is a protective coating for 10 seconds and only doing it say for 5 seconds in order to get the 1st and 2nd batches out the door on time.
Also, a friend of mine got his on release day and has the issue. Another friend got his on Monday from Best Buy...no issue.
A lot has been reported... but only some of it true.
A lot of people have complained, but what tiny fraction of ALL iPhone 4 users are they?
The question is the magnitude of the problem. If it?s a massive killer failure affecting a huge % of users, denied and covered up by evil villains in a tower somewhere (as people make it out to be) then that?s one thing. Maybe that will turn out to be the case.
If, on the other hand, it?s a more minor problem, then all the enraged shrieking by people who are NOT personally affected is a little silly. (People who are in the situation where this kills calls have every right to complain?and we should thank them for it, because that?s how improvements can happen.)
You're right that the magnitude is still to be determined. But it should be obvious by now hat the it is a non-trivial percentage, with the definition of "non-trivial" up to debate. And yes, i'm familiar with the long history of real and fake controversies, everything from battery fires to cube hairline cracks.
Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.
Rest assured, this is a real problem and smart, level-headed people are posting incontrovertible video evidence. Like we've said, the only question at this point is the exact percentage of people or phones that are affected.
The blatant lying from Apple that the vast majority of people who have experienced the issue knows, because you don't have to TIGHTLY grip the phone to see reception significantly drop, is making Apple look like of bunch of assholes. I'm hugely disappointed and insulted by them. They have lost my trust as a company and that's no small thing.
I am on hold with an Apple Tech. Wanted to have record of my issue if it doesn't get fixed so I can call at a later time. Anyway, I asked him if he has had a lot of calls about the proximity sensor. He laughed when he said, "uh, a good amount". you could here in his voice that it was a butt load. Seems that they are getting lots and lots of calls about the sensor and reception.
To all those that are hating me on here:
I have been a pretty hardcore Apply Fanboy Loyalist. I have taken flack for it for years and years and years. But, I have never had issues with any Apple product until now. I have spent loads and loads of money on Apple Products because they DO work better. This is the first product that the people that give me flack actually have ground to stand on. It is frustrating to finally find a product that might be flawed from a company that I have stuck with for so long. But, for those that say "take it back, yada, yada, yada" I was once one of you. I used to say, Apple didn't make you buy it. That would be fine and dandy for a product that isn't locked down by contract ect. A lot of people that are on AT&T are only there for the iPhone. I know I am. So, since I sold all of my 3Gs's (like I have with all of my previous iPhones to get the new ones) I can't just "take it back" and get a different type of phone with AT&T. That would defeat the purpose of me defecting from Verizon for the iPhone.
Lesson learned, yes. Being on the "I finally have a problem" side of Apple products makes you realize how much Fanboys can be assholes instead of listening to the problem.
Just went through this thread and had to throw in my two c in. Apple does have good (not great) customer care, they just replaced my Macbook Pro's logic board 1.5 years out of warranty... But I think what's funny about this situation is Apple's continued stuck-upedness. It's almost an insult to end a would-be apology letter with "just so you know, you can get a refund." Uh you better believe I will be getting a refund if this issue isn't fixed. This is America, bitch. The letter they posted on their website fails to own up to the true problem - the "grounding of the antenna" with your skin (which is the exact phrase an Apple rep used when I called AppleCare) The other iPhones didn't do this because the antenna was properly encased inside the phone. Yeah, every phone might lose some reception when you hold it, but dropping the signal completely? I would post my speed test screenshots as proof, but it's pretty pointless... Phone on desk = working. Phone in hand = nothing. Apple is just too big for thier little britches and won't admit that thier "groundbreaking" antenna design was majorly flawed. I don't know if this has consipracy written all over it, but it definately has "run for the money" tatooed on Apple's forehead. Something went wrong somewhere... obviously. Do I just have a defective unit? (rhetorical question)
Some have even suggested that Apple may give away bumpers to address the issue
That's preposterous!
At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.
Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.
At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.
Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.
please tell me you're joking, and that you've read all the last 30 or so posts on this forum before you decided to post this? (especially #46)
It does hold water, if his experience is different from reviewers because he lives in a different area from them. Cell reception varies widely, so people will experience all kinds of things. There isn?t one single reception experience that all phone users share.
Maybe he did mean it anecdotally, but I read it as a general statement about the iPhone 4 v. all previous iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
If you set up using a back up then in fact it may be a fix. The theory as to why it works is a bad setting/preference from the back up
Restore in progress...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
Uhhhh, good move Apple. Those bumpers cost less than $1 to manufacture.
Regardless of cost, this is a workaround, not a fix, so this could easily be more costly in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
Don?t feel too bad for Apple.
They never said a software fix could solve the signal loss. That?s not what the software fix does?this was made clear.
And one Apple rep doing one thing in one case is not the same ?they? who made the official announcement.
Apple?s nightmare is simple: the media will jump on anything, make a stink and sell ads, and if it has ?Apple? or ?iPhone? in the story, that?s worth extra And that is a great nightmare: it helps Apple far more than it hurts them. We could say it?s not fair that Nokia isn?t getting equal press for pretending their phone doesn?t suffer similar issues, when their own manual states otherwise. But Nokia?s also not getting their name dropped every 4 seconds, building mindshare. Apple just has to take the rough with the smooth.
QFT. Apple's PR said exactly what they had to say. I have to think that Jobs emails will be stopping now to unknown recipients, at least for awhile (hopefully forever).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
I've been quite critical of apple and think that Apple needs to address the reception problems in a public statement. Perhaps they should even offer free bumpers if the problem can't be fixed via software.
However those bumpers certainly cost more than $1 to produce. I've got one on my phone (which thankfully fixed the reception problem) and I've got to say that the bumper is much more complex than it looks on the Apple website.
It is comprised of quite a few intricate pieces. There are three captive buttons with chrome finish. The equator of the bumper is hard plastic while the outer rings are rubber.
Sure, it isn't expensive in raw material, but it is one of the most complex cases to manufacture. It actually involves assembly, not just dropping plastic out of a mold.
They aren't even the most expensive Bumpers coming to market.
Free bumpers aren't good enough. I'd get your money back and demand more from a company like Apple. They messed up big time here.
People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.
No, at volume those parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents.
To the shelves? That simply isn't possible. I'd say it's well over $1, too, though Apple is surely making a hefty profit on them.
As dfiler stated previously, they aren't simply a strip of rubber or plastic stretched over the phone. They are very precise pieces of rubber AND plastic with metal buttons built in.
I bet the buttons cost more than 2 or 3¢ per Bumper at this point, or to state another way, "No, [the] volume [button] parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents."
People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.
They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.
Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.
Note that I also said we should thank people who have these problems and report them. Those aren’t the shriekers, nor is any particular party in this thread But there IS definite exaggeration going on by some parties.
Nobody can say the problem is widespread. And nobody can say it isn’t. Not without numbers.
I can say that it very much SEEMS not to be widespread. People noticing something: a minority. People actually affected by it to the extent that it’s a big, frequent problem for them: an even tinier minority. I call it as I see it, and await more information.
But we don’t have numbers—yet. The ones that are shocked that Apple isn’t giving away bumpers to everyone have to be assuming that the numbers are insanely high. Those I might lump in with the shriekers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.
Mass boycott over an amazingly great product with one small flaw (and what product doesn’t have any?) is asking too much of people. If that’s “giving Apple control” then so is buying any product from any company—because this flaw is not out of line with things that happen every day from any vendor. Be aware of such issues when making decisions—but taking it to the extreme of mass boycott doesn’t make sense in this instance.
What is more? Your money back, your contract dissolved AND a settlement for emotional distress.
More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.
No, at volume those parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents.
Surely price is not the issue. Even if the bumpers cost them $10 each that's the hit they need to take show their customers respect for them designing a stupid antenna.
More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.
Yes, because basic business concepts escape me, but are so clear to you¡ You aren't acting as crazy as you were last week, but you have yet to act rationally and logically about the situation.
You need to realize that is a product is bad people won't buy. With the iPhone, over every other product Apple sells, you can use it for up to 30 days completely risk free. Are you still claiming this isn't in the case? If the product doesn't suit ones needs, then they will return it or they won't by another. That's how the market works. No one is forced to buy anything. I returned by iPad because it didn't work for my needs, but I didn't throw a tantrum for week (and I actually owned the product, have you yet even seen an iPhone 4 in the person or touched its 3G-Spot?).
Comments
I received my iPhone from Best Buy on Wednesday of this week. No issue. I was out in the country yesterday where I had 2-3 bars of service. I tried to kill it with the touch of death...still no issue.
I don't believe the problem is a design issue at all, but most likely a manufacturing one. When I think about it, I can't imagine the engineers not wondering what would happen if someone crossed the streams
Also, a friend of mine got his on release day and has the issue. Another friend got his on Monday from Best Buy...no issue.
A lot has been reported... but only some of it true.
A lot of people have complained, but what tiny fraction of ALL iPhone 4 users are they?
The question is the magnitude of the problem. If it?s a massive killer failure affecting a huge % of users, denied and covered up by evil villains in a tower somewhere (as people make it out to be) then that?s one thing. Maybe that will turn out to be the case.
If, on the other hand, it?s a more minor problem, then all the enraged shrieking by people who are NOT personally affected is a little silly. (People who are in the situation where this kills calls have every right to complain?and we should thank them for it, because that?s how improvements can happen.)
You're right that the magnitude is still to be determined. But it should be obvious by now hat the it is a non-trivial percentage, with the definition of "non-trivial" up to debate. And yes, i'm familiar with the long history of real and fake controversies, everything from battery fires to cube hairline cracks.
Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.
Rest assured, this is a real problem and smart, level-headed people are posting incontrovertible video evidence. Like we've said, the only question at this point is the exact percentage of people or phones that are affected.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...hock_risk.html
"No injuries have been reported by users affected by the failure, and the issue affects just a "very small" number of adapters, Apple claims."
See? that so hard Apple?
To all those that are hating me on here:
I have been a pretty hardcore Apply Fanboy Loyalist. I have taken flack for it for years and years and years. But, I have never had issues with any Apple product until now. I have spent loads and loads of money on Apple Products because they DO work better. This is the first product that the people that give me flack actually have ground to stand on. It is frustrating to finally find a product that might be flawed from a company that I have stuck with for so long. But, for those that say "take it back, yada, yada, yada" I was once one of you. I used to say, Apple didn't make you buy it. That would be fine and dandy for a product that isn't locked down by contract ect. A lot of people that are on AT&T are only there for the iPhone. I know I am. So, since I sold all of my 3Gs's (like I have with all of my previous iPhones to get the new ones) I can't just "take it back" and get a different type of phone with AT&T. That would defeat the purpose of me defecting from Verizon for the iPhone.
Lesson learned, yes. Being on the "I finally have a problem" side of Apple products makes you realize how much Fanboys can be assholes instead of listening to the problem.
Some have even suggested that Apple may give away bumpers to address the issue
That's preposterous!
At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.
Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.
That's preposterous!
At a retail price of $30 each, these must cost Apple something like $15 each to manufacture. I mean really. Considering that they are effectively colorful rubber bands with holes in them... think about how much a rubber band costs. They're like $10 each, right? I think I saw a bag of 100 rubber bands on sale for like $930.
Apple would lose millions, perhaps billions in manufacturing costs if they started giving these away en masse.
please tell me you're joking, and that you've read all the last 30 or so posts on this forum before you decided to post this? (especially #46)
It does hold water, if his experience is different from reviewers because he lives in a different area from them. Cell reception varies widely, so people will experience all kinds of things. There isn?t one single reception experience that all phone users share.
Maybe he did mean it anecdotally, but I read it as a general statement about the iPhone 4 v. all previous iPhones.
If you set up using a back up then in fact it may be a fix. The theory as to why it works is a bad setting/preference from the back up
Restore in progress...
Uhhhh, good move Apple. Those bumpers cost less than $1 to manufacture.
Regardless of cost, this is a workaround, not a fix, so this could easily be more costly in the long run.
Don?t feel too bad for Apple.
They never said a software fix could solve the signal loss. That?s not what the software fix does?this was made clear.
And one Apple rep doing one thing in one case is not the same ?they? who made the official announcement.
Apple?s nightmare is simple: the media will jump on anything, make a stink and sell ads, and if it has ?Apple? or ?iPhone? in the story, that?s worth extra
QFT. Apple's PR said exactly what they had to say. I have to think that Jobs emails will be stopping now to unknown recipients, at least for awhile (hopefully forever).
I've been quite critical of apple and think that Apple needs to address the reception problems in a public statement. Perhaps they should even offer free bumpers if the problem can't be fixed via software.
However those bumpers certainly cost more than $1 to produce. I've got one on my phone (which thankfully fixed the reception problem) and I've got to say that the bumper is much more complex than it looks on the Apple website.
It is comprised of quite a few intricate pieces. There are three captive buttons with chrome finish. The equator of the bumper is hard plastic while the outer rings are rubber.
Sure, it isn't expensive in raw material, but it is one of the most complex cases to manufacture. It actually involves assembly, not just dropping plastic out of a mold.
They aren't even the most expensive Bumpers coming to market.Starting at $80, adding another $20 it you want Carbon Fiber backplate.
Free bumpers aren't good enough. I'd get your money back and demand more from a company like Apple. They messed up big time here.
What is more? Your money back, your contract dissolved AND a settlement for emotional distress.
Free bumpers aren't good enough. I'd get your money back and demand more from a company like Apple. They messed up big time here.
People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.
Uhhhh, good move Apple. Those bumpers cost less than $1 to manufacture.
No, at volume those parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents.
No, at volume those parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents.
To the shelves? That simply isn't possible. I'd say it's well over $1, too, though Apple is surely making a hefty profit on them.
As dfiler stated previously, they aren't simply a strip of rubber or plastic stretched over the phone. They are very precise pieces of rubber AND plastic with metal buttons built in.
I bet the buttons cost more than 2 or 3¢ per Bumper at this point, or to state another way, "No, [the] volume [button] parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents."
People can get their money back; they just have to be willing to part with the phone. How many people who actually suffer the problem will do that? If it was me, I'd rather just have the free bumper than give up the phone entirely.
They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.
Also, it seems counter-productive to harp on "enraged shrieking". There are crazy people on all sides of this discussion. Apple is a lightning rod for this type of bickering. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any particular point of view. Wackos are on all sides of this topic.
Note that I also said we should thank people who have these problems and report them. Those aren’t the shriekers, nor is any particular party in this thread
Nobody can say the problem is widespread. And nobody can say it isn’t. Not without numbers.
I can say that it very much SEEMS not to be widespread. People noticing something: a minority. People actually affected by it to the extent that it’s a big, frequent problem for them: an even tinier minority. I call it as I see it, and await more information.
But we don’t have numbers—yet. The ones that are shocked that Apple isn’t giving away bumpers to everyone have to be assuming that the numbers are insanely high. Those I might lump in with the shriekers
They still sell 3G S iPhones. iPhone is the issue, iPhone 4 is the issue. People have a chance here to do something that will make a difference, but no, they'll keep the phone and give Apple even more control over them.
Mass boycott over an amazingly great product with one small flaw (and what product doesn’t have any?) is asking too much of people. If that’s “giving Apple control” then so is buying any product from any company—because this flaw is not out of line with things that happen every day from any vendor. Be aware of such issues when making decisions—but taking it to the extreme of mass boycott doesn’t make sense in this instance.
What is more? Your money back, your contract dissolved AND a settlement for emotional distress.
More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.
No, at volume those parts are probably more like 2 or 3 cents.
Surely price is not the issue. Even if the bumpers cost them $10 each that's the hit they need to take show their customers respect for them designing a stupid antenna.
More: as in more respect and better design. By not buying this product it forces them to changed their tune in the future by treating their customers with a little more respect and by having them look at antenna design differently. I don't expect you to understand. That's not a flame, I seriously doubt you'll get it.
Yes, because basic business concepts escape me, but are so clear to you¡ You aren't acting as crazy as you were last week, but you have yet to act rationally and logically about the situation.
You need to realize that is a product is bad people won't buy. With the iPhone, over every other product Apple sells, you can use it for up to 30 days completely risk free. Are you still claiming this isn't in the case? If the product doesn't suit ones needs, then they will return it or they won't by another. That's how the market works. No one is forced to buy anything. I returned by iPad because it didn't work for my needs, but I didn't throw a tantrum for week (and I actually owned the product, have you yet even seen an iPhone 4 in the person or touched its 3G-Spot?).