Is the droid X shipping? Has it been verified that there is no reduction in signal regardless of how you hold it?
There will be a reduction in signal. This is true of every phone. Your hand provides interference to the antenna and there is no way to engineer around that. What may certainly be true of the Droid X is that two antennas may reduce the extent to which signal is lost. In any case, bars are going to be an unreliable way to test this, so you'll have to turn to tests which actually measure the signal strength without relying on visual cues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych
While it may not completely kill your reception in all situations, the signal drop can be enough, in some instances, to make the voice or data unusable where a 3GS will still function (regardless of how it is held).
Specifically in cases of a very poor signal. I've got the perfect example of this through my own iPhone 4. I work from home and sometimes it is my pleasure to work from the couch in my living room on my laptop. Unfortunately, I get a relatively poor AT&T signal here. If I hold my iPhone 'wrong' long enough, it can sometimes be enough to jeopardize my signal, and I believe the antenna issue has actually resulted in me dropping one or two calls since I purchased my iPhone 4 in this specific circumstance. A more important truth is that the iPhone 4 holds a low-strength signal much more reliably than nearly all other phones and this has resulted in less dropped calls from this area than I experienced with the 3GS, and a drastically reduced amount of dropped calls when on the go.
I could solve this problem in my 'office' with some kind of case or the Bumper, but it isn't a big deal. The only annoyance is having to pay a little bit of attention to the way I hold the device in this particular area, but that's fine given the alternative is my slightly less reliable 3GS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
It has been confirmed that the Droid X can still make calls even when one finger is touching it.
So can the iPhone 4 and every other phone in production.
I do see what you are implying, but it just amounts to useless hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSF
I recently switched to a Mac, Purchased an Airport Extreme and had the iPhone, iPhone 3G and currently use the iphone 3GS. I was ready to purchase the iPhone 4 but am holding back.
I am not sure what pisses me off more, the actual antenna issue or Apples handling of it.
The iPhone antenna issues are greatly exaggerated and Apple's position is generally accurate, although a little obtuse. There are good studies to base your buying decision on. In practice, unless you must have a dead-reliable signal in a poor AT&T reception area, you're fine with an iPhone 4. If not, I'd say go with whatever network gets you phone service where you need it, and statistically speaking, that'll probably be Verizon.
That's funny considering Vzn used to put stickers on a phone they sold which reads, "Internal antenna area-- for best performance, do not touch this area when using your phone".
It was a Casio ruggedized phone. Just met with a customer today that showed this to me.
This is exactly why Verizon will never get the iPhone. This isnt the first time this has happened and Jobs has shunned other companies for less. The iPhone will go to T-Mobile and Sprint but never Verizon...and I pet it'll be just in time for Christmas...
Perhaps but Apple was not looking (or others speculating they were trying) to jump in the sack with them at that time.
Close. Intel had been courting Apple for almost 20 years, they considered them their missing 'crown jewel'. Paul Otellini and Steve Jobs had been also been friends for a long time.
But the reality is:
Apple is now an Intel customer.
AT&T is an Apple partner.
I'm sure the distinction is lost on many of the whining trolls, but for those with real knowledge of business, they realize the implications of mocking a potential partner vs. a customer.
I'm sure that after reading this some nitwit is going to try to find a way to weasel the point... but you should stop, you've already lost, go surf some porn or eat a twinkee or do something else to feel better about yourself.
Give up the Verizon crap, Apple is 'exclusive' with AT&T until 2012. Further, Verizon is the carrier for people who want price over features, Apple will never chase that nonsense. They will open their own retail stores rather than try to compete with the bottom feeder price points in the market.
It's official. iPhone will NEVER be on Verizon. But especially not within a year. Rumors have stated thus fall or early 2011. They would gave to sell the phone they just spent a million bucks saying is terrible.
Plus, Apple would gave to redesign it just to get around their criticism. Jobs will want to put a effin hurting on VZ now.
That's funny considering Vzn used to put stickers on a phone they sold which reads, "Internal antenna area-- for best performance, do not touch this area when using your phone".
It was a Casio ruggedized phone. Just met with a customer today that showed this to me.
This is the only pic I could find with such a sticker. After seeing it on this type of phone I realize that I?ve had plenty of phones with these stickers.
So are you saying the test has actually been done, or are you just being snarky? Hard to tell.
He's been trolling about the topic for weeks. He doesn't own an iPhone 4 but continues to preach doom. I guess I could go back to Verizon where I live and I'd be bouncing between Analog and other carriers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
Do people forget how much Apple mocked intel chips?
Oh I do remember that! Back before Core and when Intel used more power than an oven on broil and pumped out about the same heat.
The iPhone antenna issues are greatly exaggerated and Apple's position is generally accurate, although a little obtuse. There are good studies to base your buying decision on. In practice, unless you must have a dead-reliable signal in a poor AT&T reception area, you're fine with an iPhone 4. If not, I'd say go with whatever network gets you phone service where you need it, and statistically speaking, that'll probably be Verizon.
Best summary I've seen on the topic. I tell friends to talk to people that own the iPhone 4 and who live areas they frequent before buying. I tell them the same things with picking a carrier - find out what works best before making the purchase.
Note that the formula that Apple currently uses is VERY similar to what Android uses. And yet Apple is claiming it is "totally wrong."
Apple’s claiming that it’s wrong compared to AT&T’s current bar-display guidelines, which they will now follow—which would be a stupid lie to tell if it’s not true. And it’s also wrong in an observable way: Anandtech has been noting this software issue ever since the first iPhone came out. (See their iPhone 4 review—they mention that fact.)
The fact that Google went for a similar formula suggests that the “wrong” formula had its merits too. But other phones use different formulas. No need to seek for a dark conspiracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych
No one is arguing that signal attenuation to any degree is unique to the iPhone 4. It's the degree of signal attenuation that is unique to the iPhone 4.
Certainly—but you’re failing to note that the Apple’s unique antenna design also BENEFITS reception. The RESULT of the benefit minus the attenuation is what matters. Daring Fireball called it three steps forward, one step back. That’s still moving forward. Now, cell reception is highly complex, and ANY new design (even internal) that gets overall better reception will, in some situations, get worse reception. If the iPhone 4 gets unacceptable coverage where you live, then the refund policy is your friend. Same goes for any phone—try before you trust.
As Anantech notes, even when showing just one measly bar, the iPhone 4 can hold a voice call AND transfer data simultaneously, in areas where the 3GS was useless. So there are really six different things going on:
* The bars as displayed (which previously failed to show a weak signal sometimes—and this is being fixed); one result of this: sudden drops of many bars in a short time when hold the phone a certain way; scary even if you didn’t lose a call over it
* The grip-related attenuation due to your body water (as affects all phones); usually insignificant, but can be a killer in borderline locations
* The additional grip-related degradation if you bridge the two external antennas; usually insignificant, but can be a killer in borderline locations
* The signal strength available from AT&T in a given specific location
* The resulting signal experienced by the phone due to the combination of the above factors
* The performance experienced by the user (such as an iPhone 4 doing great with 1 bar where a 3GS fails)
probably not as many as you might think. Most people complaining are either just trying to stir up trouble, don't even own an iphone 4, live in a really bad signal area and always had connection problems or, they are a very vocal minority. The huge majority of happy ip4 users have no need to comment so we don't hear from them at all. The media companies are always looking for a controversy to report to drive clicks to their ads. The couple people i know closely who have one are quite happy with no problems. I will be getting one once my current contract is up. I'm ok for now with my 3gs on ios4.
Close. Intel had been courting Apple for almost 20 years, they considered them their missing 'crown jewel'. Paul Otellini and Steve Jobs had been also been friends for a long time.
Okay. Again, Apple was not courting Intel so Apple had no reason to NOT take shots at Intel.
Quote:
I'm sure that after reading this some nitwit is going to try to find a way to weasel the point... but you should stop, you've already lost, go surf some porn or eat a twinkee or do something else to feel better about yourself.
Can't tell if this was a jab at me or not? What should I stop and what did I lose? I wasn't sticking up for anything.
If you follow the thread you will see I was simply responding to a poorly thought out post then someone else jumped in without reading the first post.
Quote:
Give up the Verizon crap
I don' t have Verizon crap. I don't believe Apple is gonna do anything with them, at least in the next year or two, and this ad from Verizon is preety telling of that fact. If they were even close to getting the iPhone, Verizon certainly would would not be slamming it.
"Hey look, we're now selling the crappy iPhone too!"
You can hold it any way you like, but you won't be able to see the screen if it's up your butt. Would you be mad at Jobs if he pointed this out? Recall devices because it doesn't work in every way 'you' want it to. I'm sure you've never considered it, but in reality a lot of the things that you want to do are probably really stupid and nobody is required to help you.
Yea keep smoking that stuff. Your brain is only half messed up. Imagine wanting a phone that can make a phone call while its being held? You sure that's oxygen in that there hose of yours?
This is the only pic I could find with such a sticker. After seeing it on this type of phone I realize that I?ve had plenty of phones with these stickers.
Lol. here's the one I saw. Funny because now we've confirmed they did that on more than one phone.
As far as Im concerned Verizon is still kicking themselves for not taking a chance with Apple and the iPhone.
Who would you trust more with your information Apple or Google?
Think I will be staying with Apple.
Bingo on both points! Plus, I think Stevo wants to use their first rejection of Apple's iPhone to gain the upperhand in future negotiations. Verizon has more foreskin than foresight! And have paid dearly already for not going with the iPhone first. How can u have faith on senior management when they missed the biggest thing in tech since the transistor? Sheez Verizon!
If you can touch and put this phone anywhere you like it will come very handy to the verizon team who like to talk out of their anus.
They should have taken up apple's offer 3 years ago so they could be selling millions of iphone contracts now, instead of posting moronic comments on the best selling device on the market.
Comments
Is the droid X shipping? Has it been verified that there is no reduction in signal regardless of how you hold it?
There will be a reduction in signal. This is true of every phone. Your hand provides interference to the antenna and there is no way to engineer around that. What may certainly be true of the Droid X is that two antennas may reduce the extent to which signal is lost. In any case, bars are going to be an unreliable way to test this, so you'll have to turn to tests which actually measure the signal strength without relying on visual cues.
While it may not completely kill your reception in all situations, the signal drop can be enough, in some instances, to make the voice or data unusable where a 3GS will still function (regardless of how it is held).
Specifically in cases of a very poor signal. I've got the perfect example of this through my own iPhone 4. I work from home and sometimes it is my pleasure to work from the couch in my living room on my laptop. Unfortunately, I get a relatively poor AT&T signal here. If I hold my iPhone 'wrong' long enough, it can sometimes be enough to jeopardize my signal, and I believe the antenna issue has actually resulted in me dropping one or two calls since I purchased my iPhone 4 in this specific circumstance. A more important truth is that the iPhone 4 holds a low-strength signal much more reliably than nearly all other phones and this has resulted in less dropped calls from this area than I experienced with the 3GS, and a drastically reduced amount of dropped calls when on the go.
I could solve this problem in my 'office' with some kind of case or the Bumper, but it isn't a big deal. The only annoyance is having to pay a little bit of attention to the way I hold the device in this particular area, but that's fine given the alternative is my slightly less reliable 3GS.
It has been confirmed that the Droid X can still make calls even when one finger is touching it.
So can the iPhone 4 and every other phone in production.
I do see what you are implying, but it just amounts to useless hyperbole.
I recently switched to a Mac, Purchased an Airport Extreme and had the iPhone, iPhone 3G and currently use the iphone 3GS. I was ready to purchase the iPhone 4 but am holding back.
I am not sure what pisses me off more, the actual antenna issue or Apples handling of it.
The iPhone antenna issues are greatly exaggerated and Apple's position is generally accurate, although a little obtuse. There are good studies to base your buying decision on. In practice, unless you must have a dead-reliable signal in a poor AT&T reception area, you're fine with an iPhone 4. If not, I'd say go with whatever network gets you phone service where you need it, and statistically speaking, that'll probably be Verizon.
It was a Casio ruggedized phone. Just met with a customer today that showed this to me.
Perhaps but Apple was not looking (or others speculating they were trying) to jump in the sack with them at that time.
Close. Intel had been courting Apple for almost 20 years, they considered them their missing 'crown jewel'. Paul Otellini and Steve Jobs had been also been friends for a long time.
But the reality is:
Apple is now an Intel customer.
AT&T is an Apple partner.
I'm sure the distinction is lost on many of the whining trolls, but for those with real knowledge of business, they realize the implications of mocking a potential partner vs. a customer.
I'm sure that after reading this some nitwit is going to try to find a way to weasel the point... but you should stop, you've already lost, go surf some porn or eat a twinkee or do something else to feel better about yourself.
Give up the Verizon crap, Apple is 'exclusive' with AT&T until 2012. Further, Verizon is the carrier for people who want price over features, Apple will never chase that nonsense. They will open their own retail stores rather than try to compete with the bottom feeder price points in the market.
Your kidding right? What a ridiculous response!
The language is playful. The message is totally serious.
You should reread and take some time to really think it over.
Plus, Apple would gave to redesign it just to get around their criticism. Jobs will want to put a effin hurting on VZ now.
That's funny considering Vzn used to put stickers on a phone they sold which reads, "Internal antenna area-- for best performance, do not touch this area when using your phone".
It was a Casio ruggedized phone. Just met with a customer today that showed this to me.
This is the only pic I could find with such a sticker. After seeing it on this type of phone I realize that I?ve had plenty of phones with these stickers.
So are you saying the test has actually been done, or are you just being snarky? Hard to tell.
He's been trolling about the topic for weeks. He doesn't own an iPhone 4 but continues to preach doom. I guess I could go back to Verizon where I live and I'd be bouncing between Analog and other carriers.
Do people forget how much Apple mocked intel chips?
Oh I do remember that! Back before Core and when Intel used more power than an oven on broil and pumped out about the same heat.
All's fair in love, war/business.
-Chris
The iPhone antenna issues are greatly exaggerated and Apple's position is generally accurate, although a little obtuse. There are good studies to base your buying decision on. In practice, unless you must have a dead-reliable signal in a poor AT&T reception area, you're fine with an iPhone 4. If not, I'd say go with whatever network gets you phone service where you need it, and statistically speaking, that'll probably be Verizon.
Best summary I've seen on the topic. I tell friends to talk to people that own the iPhone 4 and who live areas they frequent before buying. I tell them the same things with picking a carrier - find out what works best before making the purchase.
Note that the formula that Apple currently uses is VERY similar to what Android uses. And yet Apple is claiming it is "totally wrong."
Apple’s claiming that it’s wrong compared to AT&T’s current bar-display guidelines, which they will now follow—which would be a stupid lie to tell if it’s not true. And it’s also wrong in an observable way: Anandtech has been noting this software issue ever since the first iPhone came out. (See their iPhone 4 review—they mention that fact.)
The fact that Google went for a similar formula suggests that the “wrong” formula had its merits too. But other phones use different formulas. No need to seek for a dark conspiracy.
No one is arguing that signal attenuation to any degree is unique to the iPhone 4. It's the degree of signal attenuation that is unique to the iPhone 4.
Certainly—but you’re failing to note that the Apple’s unique antenna design also BENEFITS reception. The RESULT of the benefit minus the attenuation is what matters. Daring Fireball called it three steps forward, one step back. That’s still moving forward. Now, cell reception is highly complex, and ANY new design (even internal) that gets overall better reception will, in some situations, get worse reception. If the iPhone 4 gets unacceptable coverage where you live, then the refund policy is your friend. Same goes for any phone—try before you trust.
As Anantech notes, even when showing just one measly bar, the iPhone 4 can hold a voice call AND transfer data simultaneously, in areas where the 3GS was useless. So there are really six different things going on:
* The bars as displayed (which previously failed to show a weak signal sometimes—and this is being fixed); one result of this: sudden drops of many bars in a short time when hold the phone a certain way; scary even if you didn’t lose a call over it
* The grip-related attenuation due to your body water (as affects all phones); usually insignificant, but can be a killer in borderline locations
* The additional grip-related degradation if you bridge the two external antennas; usually insignificant, but can be a killer in borderline locations
* The signal strength available from AT&T in a given specific location
* The resulting signal experienced by the phone due to the combination of the above factors
* The performance experienced by the user (such as an iPhone 4 doing great with 1 bar where a 3GS fails)
probably not as many as you might think. Most people complaining are either just trying to stir up trouble, don't even own an iphone 4, live in a really bad signal area and always had connection problems or, they are a very vocal minority. The huge majority of happy ip4 users have no need to comment so we don't hear from them at all. The media companies are always looking for a controversy to report to drive clicks to their ads. The couple people i know closely who have one are quite happy with no problems. I will be getting one once my current contract is up. I'm ok for now with my 3gs on ios4.
bingo!
So are you saying the test has actually been done
Yes, it has been done, there are plenty of pre-release units around that have already been reviewed.
Close. Intel had been courting Apple for almost 20 years, they considered them their missing 'crown jewel'. Paul Otellini and Steve Jobs had been also been friends for a long time.
Okay. Again, Apple was not courting Intel so Apple had no reason to NOT take shots at Intel.
I'm sure that after reading this some nitwit is going to try to find a way to weasel the point... but you should stop, you've already lost, go surf some porn or eat a twinkee or do something else to feel better about yourself.
Can't tell if this was a jab at me or not? What should I stop and what did I lose? I wasn't sticking up for anything.
If you follow the thread you will see I was simply responding to a poorly thought out post then someone else jumped in without reading the first post.
Give up the Verizon crap
I don' t have Verizon crap. I don't believe Apple is gonna do anything with them, at least in the next year or two, and this ad from Verizon is preety telling of that fact. If they were even close to getting the iPhone, Verizon certainly would would not be slamming it.
"Hey look, we're now selling the crappy iPhone too!"
Yeah, right...
So can the iPhone 4 and every other phone in production.
I do see what you are implying, but it just amounts to useless hyperbole.
A few hundred youtube videos and thousands of angry users would beg to differ, pengyou.
You can hold it any way you like, but you won't be able to see the screen if it's up your butt. Would you be mad at Jobs if he pointed this out? Recall devices because it doesn't work in every way 'you' want it to. I'm sure you've never considered it, but in reality a lot of the things that you want to do are probably really stupid and nobody is required to help you.
Yea keep smoking that stuff. Your brain is only half messed up. Imagine wanting a phone that can make a phone call while its being held? You sure that's oxygen in that there hose of yours?
This is the only pic I could find with such a sticker. After seeing it on this type of phone I realize that I?ve had plenty of phones with these stickers.
Lol. here's the one I saw. Funny because now we've confirmed they did that on more than one phone.
As far as Im concerned Verizon is still kicking themselves for not taking a chance with Apple and the iPhone.
Who would you trust more with your information Apple or Google?
Think I will be staying with Apple.
Bingo on both points! Plus, I think Stevo wants to use their first rejection of Apple's iPhone to gain the upperhand in future negotiations. Verizon has more foreskin than foresight! And have paid dearly already for not going with the iPhone first. How can u have faith on senior management when they missed the biggest thing in tech since the transistor? Sheez Verizon!
They should have taken up apple's offer 3 years ago so they could be selling millions of iphone contracts now, instead of posting moronic comments on the best selling device on the market.